083: Expanding Your Career Network with Mac Prichard

Pete Mockaitis
Mac, thanks so much for joining us here on the How To Be Awesome At Your Job podcast.

Mac Prichard
Well, thank you for asking me to be on the show, Pete.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I think we’re going to have such a great chat, and part of it is because you have a fantastic microphone. It’s great chatting with a fellow podcaster. Can you tell us maybe a little bit of the connection behind being a communications professional and your podcast, Find Your Dream Job.

Mac Prichard
Well, I’ve had a career as a communications professional for more than 30 years actually, Pete, and working in politics, government and non-profits. I run my own public relations firm, I’m based in Portland, Oregon. And one of the keys to being a good communicator is relationships and networking, but it’s also about sharing what you know.
And I actually run two small businesses – one is Prichard Communications, which works with non-profits and foundations and purpose-driven brands, and the other is called MacsList.org – it’s an online community that has a job board, a blog, a podcast, a book, all about job hunting and career management. And our podcast, which you mentioned a moment ago, is called Find Your Dream Job, and it’s about the nuts and bolts of job hunting and career management.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, that’s fun, and so I deliberately, we had a great chat in advance – and thanks for taking the time to do that, and the diligence with it. We talked about how when it comes to a respective podcasts, there’s a relationship, but it’s not a perfect intersection, because I try to steer a bit away from job hunting. But while I have a super job hunter, I’ve got to ask – is there any kind of quick big pro tip that you’ve just got to unleash, when it comes to job hunting that people should know?

Mac Prichard
Well, Pete, the heart of our business at MacsList.org is a job board and we’re very proud of it. We publish about 400 job listings a month, mostly in the Pacific Northwest. But there’s data out there, Pete, that shows that as many as 80% of all jobs are never advertised, they never appear on a job board. Here’s the pro tip for people who are either looking for jobs or thinking about their career in the long run, where they want to be in the workplace.
Most people spend 100% of their time looking at job boards to find their next opportunity. I run a job board – please come and visit it. It’s an important part of any career strategy, but you need to… If 8 out of 10 jobs never appear on a job board, our challenge as job seekers or people who are thinking about our career and where we want to be in the workplace, is how do we find out about those other, those 8 out of 10 jobs, those 80% of jobs that never make it on a job board?
And we can talk more about that; some people call that the “hidden job market”, and there’s a way you can navigate it and make it work for you, but the big pro tip here is, after you look at the job boards, only spend 20 or 30% of your time doing that. Step away from the computer and get out and talk to people and network or volunteer or do informational interviews, and that’s how you’ll find the best jobs.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, that’s so good. And networking is one of your core areas of expertise, so I’d like to start there. Even the word “networking” kind of spooks some people from time to time, like, “Ooh, I’m not good at that.” And so can you share with us maybe upfront a little bit of your philosophy or world view or perspective in terms of how you even think about the word and the concept of networking?

Mac Prichard
Networking is about something that we’re all good at, and that’s relationships. And when you think… I know when you hear the word “networking”, many people get chills or they think of some function room at the Holiday Inn Airport, where it’s loud and there’re people that are passing out business cards. And that’s not effective networking.
Good networkers, first of all, they’re generous – they help others professionally and personally, and they give without an expectation of receiving anything in return. So generosity is step number one. Second, not only do they help people, but they think about where they want to be professionally, and they get involved in organizations or go to events in a strategic way, they think about what they want to accomplish professionally and where the leaders in their field hang out, and they go to those places. And again, in the spirit of generosity, if they get involved in an association in their industry, they may volunteer to serve on a committee or maybe even join a board or simply staff a reception table at the big annual event.
But by doing these things, you build relationships, you make connections and you show people what you can do and the value that you bring. And here’s why that helps you: It’s because when people are thinking about hiring or promoting someone, they tend to look first to the people they know and trust, or they rely on recommendations from people they trust.
So, when you network and there are events that are valuable and there other ways, like through volunteering, getting involved in associations, as I mentioned. But as you do those things and make connections and build relationships with others, people will think of you when opportunities arise. And this can help you in the workplace too, even in a small, or especially a large organizations, where there might be opportunities within particular big companies, to get involved in committees and activities outside of perhaps your immediate department or section.

Pete Mockaitis
And so, could you share a little bit… It sounds like those seem like the prudent, sensible things to do. Could you maybe bring that to life with regard to an example or a story of someone you’ve seen just really take these principles and ideas and run with them to great success?

Mac Prichard
Well, I think of people that I’ve met. Before I started my own public relations company, Pete, I worked in politics for both elected officials, and in political campaigns. And particularly on the campaign side, many of the key jobs are filled by volunteers. And I happen to be in my 50s, so I’ve seen a whole generation of people who started out 10, 15, 20 years ago as volunteers on campaigns, but perhaps it was a lower level, say a state legislative race, maybe not a congressional or a presidential campaign.
But by volunteering, showing others what they could do, they learned that world – some of then went on to run for office themselves, others graduated to staff roles and then eventually they moved on to maybe paid positions with elected positions at City Hall or the Governor’s Office, or even back East in the federal government.
Let me give you an example. I remember working on a gubernatorial race, and I happened to be in my mid 30s at the time and I took a week of vacation to help the candidate. And I got sent out on an assignment with four people in their 20s. This was way back in the ’90s, and it was so long ago, Pete, that cell phones were a novelty. And someone gave us a cell phone and said, “Hey, we may have to call you but in the meantime we need you to go out and distribute this literature door to door.”
So the four or five of us go out and I’m with these four 20-somethings, and reflecting on that group, now one of them became a state senator here in Oregon and now runs a business association; another is a prominent attorney in town who serves on several boards; a third serves on the Counsel of Regional Government; a fourth is a Chief of Staff for a county elected official.
And I tell you this because these are people who were either volunteering like me or this was their first job, but the value to someone like me who was… And this was a form of networking by volunteering on a campaign, was to make connections with these people early in their career – we had a shard experience.
Now let me get back to the cell phone. So this was so long ago and that cell phones were so novel. When the phone rang off, nobody knew how to answer it. It rang eight or 10 times and then it stopped. And so here we’re five very bright, talented people, who went on to great careers, and in 1994 we couldn’t figure out how to answer the cell phone.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, that’s funny. That’s so funny. And now you are using all kinds of audio fanciness in producing a podcast with great quality. And so, my, how the times change. That’s funny.

Mac Prichard
Yeah. And we’re all going to fail sometimes.

Pete Mockaitis
And I liked what you had to say with regard to you see there’s a little stepping stone and then that sort of grows and grows and it ends in some pretty cool places. And so you have a philosophy or a process associated with not so much letting that happen by chance, but rather conscientiously working backwards? Can you lay a little bit out for, what’s that approach all about?

Mac Prichard
Well, it begins with knowing what your goals are, and it may be that you’re happy with your current employer but you want a promotion, or you do want to switch and find a new job. Whatever it is, you need to be clear about what you want. So often I talk to job seekers who are thinking about, “Well, should I try to move up inside my organization or should I look for a new position?”, and they get stuck. And I say – and I’m sure you’ve heard this too, we’ll ask people, “What do you want to do?”, and they say, “Well, I want to keep my options open.” And the problem with that answer is when you say, “I want to keep my options open” and you don’t have one or two or three goals that you want to explore, you make it difficult for people to say “Yes” to helping you.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s true.

Mac Prichard
Yeah. So you may have three things on your list of opportunities you want to explore – one of them might be a promotion inside your company, you may want to change sectors, maybe you want to move from the non-profit to the corporate world. Whatever it is, we’re all carrying these lists around inside our heads. And the process that I see people succeed with is they get clear about what that goal is, or they get a short list of two or three goals. Then they write that down and they start talking to people about them.
And the best way to talk to folks is through informational interviews, and these are 20 to 30-minute conversations where you request a meeting, you run the meeting and you walk into the meeting with someone who can give you insights into your goal. And you try to do three things in an informational interview, Pete. One is introduce yourself, share your story and share your goals.
And the second thing you want to do is you want to walk into that conversation in an informational interview with some specific questions. Maybe you’re that person who wants to switch from the non-profit to the corporate sector, and so you’re trying to learn from somebody who’s done that and you ask them questions, “Well, what were the biggest challenges you faced? How did you overcome those? What advice would you give someone who is taking this up now, who wants to make a similar switch? What kind of salaries are common for the positions that I’ve told you I’m interested in? What kind of objections might an employer have about someone like me who doesn’t have corporate experience who wants to make the switch?”
There could be an endless number of questions, but there are probably are five or six that are at the top of your mind. Write them down and ask that expert who you’ve identified who you think can give you insights into it.
The third thing you want to do in an informational interview is ask for advice about other people you could reach out to. And maybe you walk into the meeting knowing that you’re meeting with Lady Mary Smith and you see that she’s connected to somebody at a bank where you’d like to get in the door, and you see that through her LinkedIn profile. It’s very appropriate to say, “Hey, I see that you know Pete over at Wells Fargo. Could I use your name in setting up a conversation with him?”
If you do those three things – share your story, your goals and introduce yourself, if you ask those specific questions, and if you walk away with two or three contacts, that’s a very successful informational interview. And Pete, it’s not about having coffee and it’s not about picking a brain; it’s about walking in and knowing what you want, and being in charge of the meeting and being clear about your ask.
You get bonus points if you do two more things – one is you close the meeting by saying, “Hey, how can I help you? What can I do for you?” Because each of us, Pete, walk around with… We all have so much to offer professionally and personally, and it also changes the dynamic of the meeting – it makes you more of a peer – but it’s also always good to be generous.
And you also get huge bonus points if 3 or 6 months later when you’ve found your job or you’ve gotten that promotion or you’ve made that switch, you reach back to that person and say, “Hey, thanks so much for your help. I wanted you to know I’ve landed here. Here’s my card; let’s stay in touch.” ‘Cause what you’re doing when you have conversations like this is you’re building or growing your network, and you want to keep in touch with it, and you also want to be helpful to people in that network. So it’s not just about taking but it’s about giving as well.

Pete Mockaitis
I like that so much. And that specificity associated with your questions makes a world of difference. And I think I’ve been on both sides of the informational interview, as the interviewer and the interviewee; as well as well-prepared and under-prepared.
So I dig that, and you’re right. It’s not about, “I’m networking because I’m supposed to be networking.” As opposed to, “I’ve got some key questions that Googling alone isn’t quite giving me the answers to.”

Mac Prichard
Yeah, and it should go without saying that you never ask a question that you could’ve gotten the answer from by looking at the individual’s LinkedIn profile or the company website or the organization’s website. You’re there because there’s a problem they can help you solve. But also remember – you can be helpful the people you’re reaching out to as well, because again, each of us has so much to offer.

Pete Mockaitis
So, I particularly liked that key question you asked, it’s like, “I noticed you’re connected to so-and-so. Is it okay if I use your name as I reach out to them?” Because in a way, it’s easier to say “Yes” to that than it is to say “Yes” to, “Could you please take the time to craft an introductory email between the two of us?” And that might get a better result, but I think the trade-off is it’s more likely that they’ll say, “Ugh”, or they’ll just sort of forget in the hullabaloo of stuff. So, I think that’s a cool question and that it’s so easy to say “Yes” to. And to that point, I’d love to get your take on, are there any key ways that you make the upfront ask in order to have that informational interview in a way that’s easy to say “Yes” to and likely to get you a “Yes”?

Mac Prichard
That’s a great question. What I’ve seen work most effectively for people, and certainly in my own career is having a specific request, and let’s walk through it. You’ve identified somebody you want to meet, you’ve gotten their name and email address from a colleague who said, “You really need to talk to Jane, she knows all about the sector you want to move into.” So the subject line could be as simple as, “Request for an informational interview / Referred by Harry Smith.”
And the email should be brief, it should say, “Hey Jane. I’m following up on the suggestion of Harry Smith. I’m currently exploring opportunities in moving from the non-profit to the corporate sector. Harry thought you would be a good source. And one of my goals is to explore opportunities in working in public relations and banking, and Harry thought you would be a good source of information about that field. Would you have 20 to 30 minutes to meet with me to discuss the field and other people I might reach out to? I’m available attached or I’m available on these dates and times.”
And you can list several specific dates or times; some people have online calendars that you can actually point to. But make it specific, be clear about what you want, set a time limit and then say, “I look forward to hearing from you.” It’s also appropriate to attach your resume, just to get people a sense of your background. But if you’re clear in the subject line and in the content of what you requesting, it’s and informational interview; in your message you should be clear about the time limits you have in mind – 20 to 30 minutes; mention who’s referred you – that gives you additional credibility; and give a glimpse of what the questions are that you might ask.
That’s a very specific, easy thing to say “Yes” to, especially if you provide possible dates and times. So it’s very different from the email… And I sent these out early in my career too, that many of us get, which is, “Can we get together for coffee?” or, “Can I pick your brain?” And the challenge with an email like that, Pete – and it’s well-intentioned is – the receiver doesn’t know how much time you want, what exactly the agenda of the meeting is, when it might take place. And it’s because of that lack of specificity, it’s easier perhaps to ignore it than to say “Yes”. But if you’re clear about what you want and the purpose of the meeting and the time involved, again, if you make it easy for people to say “Yes”, you’re much, much more likely to get an answer, a response and a meeting, and to start building a relationship with somebody who could be a valuable part of your network.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, thank you. And I really like just how thoughtful you were with each of the pieces of that communication, and the implications on the recipient of that communication. So I guess it figures – you’re a communications expert. So I guess I’d like to maybe zoom out or broaden the focus of this a bit in terms of, what are some other maybe frequently arising mistakes that you see at communications – I’m thinking mostly email, ’cause that’s where lots of things unfold – that should just be sort of cut out? Whether you’re emailing someone internally or someone that you don’t know or someone that you’re collaborating with sort of out in other partner organizations? I have a feeling you’ve got some extra wisdom to share, the dos and don’ts of smart emails.

Mac Prichard
Well, I think brevity is always best, and if you can keep your messages to 5 to 10 lines, I think you’re much more likely to get a response. Second, having a spot-on subject line about what you’re writing about, makes it easier for people to pay attention and to open it. I’m a big fan of writing subject lines that have very short headlines but give you a clue about what the request is. Because then I think people, if they know what the ask is, they’re much more likely to open it. And getting them to open it can be a big step forward, because many of us have 50, 75, 100 emails in our inbox. So a subject line that says, “Free for a meeting on Mondays or Fridays, September 2^nd to discuss upcoming communications plan?” There’s a deadline there, a sense of urgency, but it’s a polite one. And people know what they’re going to get when they open the message.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, that’s great. So a clear and compelling subject line is a good do. What else?

Mac Prichard
I think having a complete email signature in your message is always valuable, and it should include not only your name and title and your company’s name, but the website, as well as your phone number and email address. Don’t assume that people can have a reader that will allow them to see what your email address is.
The advantage of that is, people can actually track you down and call you if they need to if they have questions, but they can also put that information into their database, so they can reach out to you in the future after your email may be buried down 10,000 or 20,000 pieces in a trash folder.
Including your social media icons is also helpful, whether it’s your personal account or your office account, because there are people who will connect with your Twitter or LinkedIn or your blog or your website if you remind them that it’s there.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, very good. Anything else?

Mac Prichard
No, I think that covers it. I think the key is to be brief and to be, as in any communication, whether it’s as an email, a meeting, a conversation – have a clear ask and know what you want and make it easy, again, for people to say “Yes”.

Pete Mockaitis
And I guess I’d also like to hear a bit about the ways in which you can be generous or helpful. Because I think you mentioned when you ask that question, “Is there anything I can do for you?”, you establish yourself a little bit as a peer. But often maybe we don’t feel like peers and we wonder, “Oh, geez, what can little old me offer that big impressive vice president?”, or whomever you’re having that conversation with. So, do you have any cool stories or examples you would use to share some maybe unlikely sources of value that you can offer others?

Mac Prichard
Well, you never know how you can be helpful to others. I think that certainly… I run a public relations company and because I also have this online community for job seekers and people managing their careers, I get a lot of requests from prominent people to help members of their family with their job search.
But I would say that the best way to find out is to ask. And I think it’s not only about stepping out of that role where you think, “Oh gosh, I don’t have anything to offer”, because you do – you’ve got skills, connections, education, you’re part of a community, and there’s so much you may be able to do, and the best way to find out is to ask.
I think other specific ways people can be generous, Pete, is make yourself available for people who do want to have informational interviews who want to secure about their careers or their jobs or perhaps on some other topic.
Another way to do it is to get involved in your community, and this could be outside of your career – perhaps there is some neighborhood association or sports league or community of faith. Or maybe it’s within your career and if that’s the case, join your professional association or your local Chamber of Commerce, and when you do this and you connect with others, you’ll get energy and it will make you better at what you do and increase your happiness, but it’s also an opportunity through service to help others as well, and make your community a better place.

Pete Mockaitis
I like that. Indeed, there are many different avenues, and that’s been sort of a fun adventure and discovery for me as I meet with all these podcast guests, some of whom are sort of idols of mine that I’ve admired for years, like Susan RoAne – we’ve both interviewed her and it’s like, “Oh my gosh, I’ve read her book in high school.”

Mac Prichard
Yeah, I read her book too. I was a fan boy.

Pete Mockaitis
And I met her, she was over in Episode 9 talking about networking as well. And so then we had a chat and she said, “Oh, so what microphones do you like?” I was like, “Well, I’ve spent many hours researching microphones.” It’s like, I have indeed something of value to offer the all-mighty Susan RoAne. I thought that was pretty cool.
Or Anshul Bhagi on Episode 24 was talking about Ummo, his speech coaching app, and he’s got just ridiculous credentials with the Harvard Business School and Microsoft and Stanford, and all this stuff. And so, I noticed that one of his websites was slow and I said, “Hey, it looks like you’ve got a WordPress website that’s having slow load time.”
I talked this guy who just blew my mind with WordPress site load times, and he was super appreciative. So, it’s pretty cool how you may be surprised what you have to offer from your own life experience or knowledge or networks or whatever, that can be super helpful even to people you think are a super big deal.

Mac Prichard
Yeah, and as you speak I think of an example. I have a client for my public relations company; he was the vice president of communications for one of the 10 largest foundations in the US and he’s an avid photographer. We were chatting about photography, and this was two years ago, and I said, “Well, are you on Instagram?” because he loves taking photos. And he said, “No, I don’t know anything about Instagram.” And I said, “Well, bring your phone out.”
And I helped him download the Instagram app, and he got so excited and he asked me for specific tips, and it was something that we were able to connect over. And actually, in this case – this doesn’t always happen – but it actually led to a small contract where he hired my firm to come back and do a workshop on visual media, including Instagram. But even if that hadn’t happened, it was a way for me to connect with someone who’s senior to me, in a much more powerful position, and he was genuinely grateful for the knowledge that I shared.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s good. Thanks so much. Well you tell me, Mac – is there anything else you want to make sure that we cover off before we shift gears and talk about a few of your favorite things?

Mac Prichard
No, I think I’m ready for the rapid fire round.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Let’s do it. Well, could you start us by sharing a favorite quote?

Mac Prichard
Well, this comes from a colleague of mine. I worked in the state capital in Oregon for a number of years, including a stint as a speechwriter to a governor there. And this colleague had been in the building for many, many years, and he said, “You know, you meet the same people on the way down as you do on the way up.”

And he had seen that because he’d seen people come in as legislators, state representatives, senators, who are big deals and then they lost elections, they came back as lobbyists and they were practically invisible. And so the point of the story and the quote, I think is, careers will have peaks and valleys. And so we’re all going to have our valleys, and we need to stay humble, because we’re all likely to have our reverses, and you just need to treat people the way you want to be treated.

Pete Mockaitis
Agreed. And how about a favorite study or experiment or a piece of research?

Mac Prichard
You know, Pete, I’m a big fan of that Harvard Grant Study. Almost 300 Harvard College graduates, who were in the class of 1938, and many of them are still alive, and the study found that the key to happiness is your relationships with others. And that in the end many of these people had great successful careers, wonderful titles, made lot of money, but the happiest people weren’t the ones who had the most impressive titles or the the biggest net worth; they were the people who were involved in the community, had close family relationships, good friendships. And those relationships, not your social status or your net worth or your job title, the researchers have found, were the keys to happiness.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh yeah, I think that’s the George Vaillant Harvard Men piece. And he also discovered how debilitating alcohol was to many of the lives, which is a huge bummer. Who would’ve thought? It seems so powerful and sort of invincible.

Mac Prichard
Yeah.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, thank you. And how about a favorite book?

Mac Prichard
It’s an older one, but I still enjoy it – it’s called Never Eat Alone, Keith Ferrazzi. I think I’m mispronouncing that.?

Pete Mockaitis
The fonzi? Ferrazzi? It’s what I’ve heard, but I don’t know, that might be wrong too.

Mac Prichard
Yeah. What do I like about the book? It is about networking, which we’ve been talking about on this show, but it gives very specific suggestions about how to get the most out of a conference, about the value of giving to others and about the importance of goal setting. And he is passionate on the subject of connections and relationships, and it’s a fun book to read.

Pete Mockaitis
Excellent, thank you. And how about a favorite tool? Something that you use often.

Mac Prichard
It’s kind of a vanilla choice, but we love Google Docs. We use it at both of our companies, and it makes collaboration across our teams so much easier than products that require you to send files back and forth, like Microsoft Word or PDFs, and it just makes our teams much more effective.

Pete Mockaitis
And how about a favorite habit?

Mac Prichard
Cycling to work every day and back. I have a three-mile commute each way. I happen to live in Portland, Oregon, and it’s a very bicycle-friendly tow. I’ve been doing this for 15 years and it takes me 25 to 30 minutes to make the trip, depending on the day. And it’s a time for reflection, I get exercise, and it’s just a great way to decompress. And the other thing is Portland… Every now and then I just see somebody on the street, and you can’t do this in a car, but on your bike you can actually stop and chat with folks.

Pete Mockaitis
Excellent. And what would you say is something that you share that really seems to connect or resonate with folks? It gets their heads nodding, the notepads going, or maybe among your most popular episodes. What’s that sort of quote or theme that’s connecting?

Mac Prichard
I think in the job search space people are always surprised to hear how few jobs make it on the job boards. And so when we tell people, “Yes, come to our job board, check it out, but by the way you’ve got to step away from the computer and get out and talk to people and build relationships and grow your network”, that’s surprising to many folks but I think they get it right away as well. And I think it’s the idea that has the biggest potential to help people get ahead in the workplace or get ahead in their career.

Pete Mockaitis
Excellent. And what would you say is the best way to find you, if folks want to learn more and see what you’re up to?

Mac Prichard
Visit our website MacsList.org – you’ll find a blog there about job hunting and career management. We also have a podcast, Find Your Dream Job – it’s available on Stitcher and iTunes. And we have an online course that we’re launching November 1^st called Hack the Hidden Job Market, that contains a lot of the ideas that you and I talked about in this show about networking and the importance of relationships and goal-setting.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, very good. And could you share a final paring word or a call to action or a challenge for those seeking to be more awesome at their jobs?

Mac Prichard
Be clear about your goals. Know what you want.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, cool. Well, Mac, this has been a ton of fun. Thank you, and good luck!

Mac Prichard
Thank you, Pete. It’s been a pleasure to be on your show!