067: Sharpening Your Memory and Focus with Joanna Jast

Pete Mockaitis
Joanna, thanks so much for being here on the How to be Awesome at Your Job podcast.

Joanna Jast
Thank you very much for inviting me, Pete.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I think we have so much fun stuff to dig into and so I’d like to maybe if you can open us up by sharing, your website is called the ShapeShifters Club, that’s a fun, intriguing name. What does it mean? Where did it come from?

Joanna Jast
So the idea was really born as it usually is. I was in the middle of thinking to myself, “What do I do with my life, in my 40s?” And the idea was born few years ago, so I got to a point you can call midlife crisis, so I was sort of thinking “what do I do? What I do with my professional life?” I’ve got another forty years, and I wanted to become somebody else professionally.
But because I’ve gotten quite used to doing things quickly and once you get to a certain point in your life and in your career, you’re really used to doing things quickly. And it’s hard to start from scratch so I thought, “Wouldn’t it be lovely if I could find ways of actually speeding up learning, speeding up that change process, speeding up that adaptation phase where I could really quickly arrive to the top of my game, to be at the top of my game, change games but also become really good at what I’m doing, the new stuff in a really great way.”
So, this was what I thought first of all for myself, and I thought, “Well, there doesn’t seem to be that much on offer for people like me.” So people, midlife, mid-career who want or need, for whatever reason, are at the point where they want to change careers, want to change professions, but really need to do it quickly.
And that’s how the idea of Shape Shifters Club was born, to help people speed up the learning, speed up that process of change and adaptation to new career, new profession, new industry.

Pete Mockaitis
That is a fun name and concept that makes sense here. So, I am thinking, when it comes to speeding up your of learning, you know, that has an implication and all sorts of things with your learning because you are studying for an exam whether it’s the MCATs, LSATs or for the chartered financial analysts, the CPA or you are learning just because you are starting a new position or a new project or client there are many times, of course, where learning has to happen and faster would be better, so, could you open us up by sharing a little bit about what are the best practices for when I am trying to get knowledge inside me quickly and effectively. What are some key things that I need to be doing?

Joanna Jast
So, the learning process really consists of few key steps, first is that you need to notice the information that is about to enter your brain system, so that’s where focus comes to play, so that focus on it.
The second part is once it enters the system, it is stored in this immediate memory, so, it’s got to go into sort of working memory, so it goes into working memory, but working memory is very short lived. And it’s good limited capacity so the next step for you is to shift it from the working memory into the long term storage and once it is in long term storage it’s there.
The process from shifting working memory to long term memory, it really boils down to repetition. So a number of repetitions over time. And you also in order to actually remember it, you need to tag the information. So like you put anything in storage you need to know where you put it, you need to know which shelf you put it, and you tag it in a certain way, so when you come to retrieve, you know which tags or which shelves you ought to look for.
So, this is how learning process works, you’ve got to notice it, you’ve got to code it and you’ve got to store it in long term memory and the process of storage is that the repetition and space.
So, what we know is that, within the 24 hours we will forget about 80% of what we’ve learned. So, in order to remember within those 24 hours, 40, 24, 48 hours, we need to repeat what we’ve learned so that the memory is boosted. And the next step is to repeat it again within the 10 days, 2 weeks’ time and the next repetition would need to happen within 30-60 days and that’s pretty much the process of learning, done.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. So, whenever we say we repeat it, now, are you saying the truly, you know, say the words out loud or is there sort of any kind of additional exposure?

Joanna Jast
I said repeat it but it’s actually relearn. It depends on what you are learning, if you are learning a new word because you are learning a new language, it will be repeating the word, it will be repeating the sound but also maybe the spelling, the meaning, but it can be anything that actually uses the piece of knowledge. So it could be that you use that new word in a sentence or if you are learning a process then use that process, so, in any way, you use this piece of information by repeating it, using it in a context or in any other way, that counts as a repetition.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. I understand. So, I’m here, I’ve got an initial exposure and then I’m looking for one repetition in the 24 to 48 hours, then another in the 10-14 days and then again into 30-60 days. So, are you saying, just one repetition within those timeframes is a sufficient dose or multiple times within those windows?

Joanna Jast
It would depend on a little bit on the context, but generally it’s a repetition but it’s got to be the correct repetition, so, assuming that you’ve got it right, so if you’re repeating the word and for whatever reason, you got something wrong, whether in pronunciation, the stress or the meaning – then you’ve got to repeat it until you get it right.
The algorithm is actually a trade secret, so from what I’ve noticed myself, it’s my own observation from learning languages using space repetition software. It’s the correct repetition that counts and if you get it wrong on your first repetition, then you go back to square one, so you’ve got to repeat this word correctly within those 24-48 hours, and once you get it right then the period extends to the next repetition.

Pete Mockaitis
And so, you’re thinking one correct repetition with in this windows, contentiously can get it locked in.

Joanna Jast
For a period of time.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh. Tell me more.

Joanna Jast
So, you get it. The first repetition gets it locked in for a period of time. So, in order for this to last, you’ve got to refresh your memory and ensure that you get it right the next time around and right the next time ‘round. Then you’ve got for after 2, 3, 4 repetitions you’ve got it more or less locked into your memory.

Pete Mockaitis
So, the first step was ensuring that your attention is on something and so I know you’ve done some great work in terms of on your “how to focus” module and Laser-sharp Focus book. So, how do you get that focus in the first place so that you’re making good repetitions?

Joanna Jast
First of all, you need to be aware that without a good focus, it’s really hard to learn or actually do anything intellectually. So, that awareness is really the first step, or the prerequisite, and the first step to get your focus right is to realize what actually is wrong with your focus and this is what I get really passionate about because there’s lots of advice out there how to improve your concentration, how to improve your focus but actually, people don’t talk about the importance of discovering what the real problem is, so instead of just trying one solution after another or giving people just blanket advice, just stop and invest time and energy into exploring what the real underlying problem with your focus is.
And I say it’s a really worthy investment because the better you understand what is wrong with your focus, the more likely you are to apply a solution, that will actually work for you and your very specific situation.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And so, could you share like what are some common culprits of focus robbing that people discover when they take the time to do this audit?

Joanna Jast
Many people who have done the audit that I recommend really discover that even the fact that they paid attention to when they lose focus, just doing the audit improved their focus. But really, the most common culprits are the technology. So, little things like the notifications that pop up on your screen whether that’s your laptop, your computer, your phone.
It’s also the noise in the background. Very often that will be like snippets of conversations, so the open plan office. Our brain is wired to tune into conversations to make sense of that because, you know, evolutionary, it’s our “Am I in danger for any other reason? Is that any other opportunity for food out there?”
So, snippets of conversations are really bad for our focus. The same thing is with music and music with lyrics because our brain will try to make sense of it again, but also little things like people coming and going and sometimes it might be the conversations that come through the open windows or open door, environment that is very distracting.
One of my favorite examples is how important it is to have an ergonomic work station, and when I was a medical student, for my first two years, I used to really spend lot of time studying, basically, cramming, staying up long, late at night, pulling all-nighters, and my grades weren’t that great, and I was really disappointed with myself.
And what I would do is to lie in my bed or in my sofa and try read these big, fat medical text books. And I would doze on and off, fall asleep and wake up and try to study it again, and all that.
One day I was so frustrated with that, and I just said “I’ve got this assignment I need to complete for tomorrow, but I just can’t do it right now. I’m going to go to bed early tonight, I’m going to wake up early tomorrow, I’m going to do the assignment tomorrow.”
So, I went to bed and I woke up early, I organized myself on my desk, and I just did that assignment. I was just really surprised. It was so easy, so straightforward. I had time to complete the assignment, I had time to have my coffee, I had time to have my breakfast. I felt really energetic, I felt quite accomplished. And now looking back to what I did was my productivity skyrocketed literally overnight because I shifted from this very un-ergonomic space, bed, where I was actually in bed, so, bed and sofas are not made for working or studying, to desk which is made to studying and work, so, even looking at your work space, whether that’s really ergonomic, are you doing it in the table or in the desk, do you have enough light? Is your chair comfortable? Do you have everything you need within reach or your desk really cluttered? So, these are little things that can make a lot of difference to your productivity at work.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh. Yes. You’re talking about desks, I got to get your take on this. I’ve been eyeing this beautiful sit-to-stand-desk situation. Can you share with me any perspectives, research, data, anecdotes about standing desks, or sit-to-standing desk and the benefits of them?
Joanna Jast
I’m going to quote one of my favorite books, Brain Rules by John Medina, “Our brain evolved to solving survival problems in an outdoor environment and doing it in nearly constant motion.” So, it’s really hard to be sitting at the desk, you are mostly immobile, but if you are standing, you’ve got a little room to move and you can actually move if you want, and I’ve heard of people who work at desks and work, they’ve got treadmills and they run or walk and work and actually I am a strong believer in that my brain works best when I am moving and when I’ve got a really tough problem to crack, I would often go for walk, or I would take it and think it through during one of my runs.
So that point of view, I think the standing desk might be a good idea, although I haven’t read any specific research on that.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, thank you. I’d love to hear, when it comes to your focus, and bringing your attention sharp, if folks say that the average attention span is about 10 minutes, can you tell us what does that even mean exactly, attention span, and what are some means for getting some improvement about that in the long term? Sort of, week after week, month after month, you can address the distractions of technology, but is there any kind of internal skill that we can build and develop in that zone?

Joanna Jast
Definitely can be built and developed. So, that 10 minutes is what generally most of us would naturally have, and that’s the sort of attention that’s, sort of easy attention.
Beyond that 10-minute span, you would need to put a little bit more effort into actually staying focused, and the main thing that helps us extend that period beyond those 10 minutes is interest.
So, if you’re interested in whatever you’re reading or whatever you are doing, surely you want to stay involved, so it’s going to be definitely more than 10 minutes but if you’re not, you’re going to struggle.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, so, any key tip for igniting some extra interest, maybe even if you’re not naturally interested?

Joanna Jast
So, the key thing would be to add emotions to your work or your learning if you’re reading, and there is a variety of things you could do, it would depend on really what lights your fire, what you find fun. Also, what the task involves.
So, if you are reading a long report and it’s a long piece of text, that’s really boring, you might want to brighten it a little bit of colors, so, although highlighting doesn’t really help, but you might want to use colorful pens to write notes or even draw on the margins as you’re reading to create your notes, if you like colors.
But if you like, for example, for me, what helps me if I’m reading something long or I need to study in a long period of time, I like to move. So, I would even move from one place to another, and that creates that interest and keeps me involved in it. But most often people would use thing such as music. I would recommend no lyrics, like I said earlier, but music is something that can help you evoke emotions.
And it doesn’t really matter so much whether they’re positive emotions or negative emotions, but what really matters is it is getting in that sweet spot that creates emotional arousal but not too much, so, you’re not overwhelmed by the emotion that’s there, but it’s just enough to keep you a little bit up there and interested and excited about what you’re doing.
So, you can use music, you can use various smells, people can use – if you’re into lovely smells, aromatherapy. You can use aromatherapy.
Many people use food and unfortunately I am one of them, so if I’ve got something really hard to go through, whether it’s really long document to read or something really hard to prepare, I would use food to keep myself, sort of, interested and extend that attention span.
It can be a nice hot drink, so, something that would keep you a little bit more excited about, not necessarily even… ideally, it, it would be the task but it might be anything that even invoke feeling in you and that could help you extend that attention span.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Certainly, so now, I want to get you take when you talk about focus and learning, I got to know, what’s is your take on speed reading?

Joanna Jast
I’ve read a few studies, and just some studies that came out recently that actually dispelled the myth of speed reading.
For me, the speed reading the way it is presented, it doesn’t make sense, but there are other ways in which you can speed the process of reading.
For example, reading a book or reading a textbook and definitely these, there are strategies that have scientific premises, strategies that have been proven to work. So, in a way, it’s not the speed reading that’s understood as speed reading but there are strategies that can help you speed up the process of reading.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh. Interesting. You’re saying that there is no magical switch you can pull so it’s like “I’m now speeding through these pages,” but there are some strategies in terms of how you approach the texts and your game plan that will mean you are, sort of absorbing more of the content per minute.

Joanna Jast
Yes!

Pete Mockaitis
So, what are those strategies?

Joanna Jast
So, one of those is what’s called active pre-reading, so, before you even get to read the text that you want to read, you learn something about it and it might be something that’s connected somehow to the topic, the text, but for me, what I do, I look at the table of contents.
And sometimes that’s just – I look at the table of contents and then go through the chapters and the sections and chapters or headlines, sub headlines. And that’s very often enough for me to have a really decent understanding of what the text is about and I’m already probably 30% on the way.
So, active pre-reading. But then what I do is I create, and it helps me create like a scaffolding on which then I hang the pieces of knowledge. So, the general knowledge – what is it going to be about, how is it organized and certain key terms, certain key concepts that are already there in the table of contents. And when I’m reading or when I am going to the text, I just hang on those details on to that scaffolding that I’ve created going through the table of contents.

Pete Mockaitis
Can you give me an example of scaffolding you might create and how that connects to something new that you’re picking up?

Joanna Jast
So, usually when you take a textbook and the knowledge in the textbook is usually organized in a specific way. So, first of all it expounds the key concepts, and then it goes from top to bottom. It might be the general terms and then there are 3 sub types, or something and then if there is a sub type of something, it shows how it works and how this can be practically outlined. So, this way I’ve already gathered some knowledge about the topic and the key concepts in how they are connected and if you remember what I said earlier on about the learning process, the learning process is that the process of transferring the piece knowledge, piece of information from that working memory into the long term storage, and there two processes that happens there.
One is the space repetition but the other is how you actually label those pieces of information, how you tag it, how this piece of information actually starts connecting what you already got in that storage.
And when I go through the table of contents, I already start creating those connections. So, how this piece of knowledge is connected within that wider machinery or what are the key elements of this piece of knowledge in how they interact with one another. So that already helps me create the connections between various bits and pieces of what I am about to learn not yet learning, or I’m already learning but not reading yet about it.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Thank you. I also got a kick out of how you describe yourself as a master procrastinator. Could you tell us a little bit about what does that means and then what you’ve done to improve, and sort of best practices that you’d share to those who has a procrastination issue?

Joanna Jast
So, I am no longer a master procrastinator but I used to be. I’m still by nature. And I actually have a very short attention span. I don’t have any ADHD or anything like that but I actually have a very low threshold for boredom. And that really gets in the way of me doing anything for prolonged periods of time.
I’m also someone who is on a constant search for excitement, so that makes me looking for something more exciting, so that’s me by nature.
But what I have created, I’ve created a number of systems that actually keep me focused on I want to be focused on. These are usually external systems. So, I’ve created changes in my environment, I set up my environment in a way that I sit down and I just get on with my work, so I can’t procrastinate, I can’t distract myself with this, that or the other.

Pete Mockaitis
Alright, that’s one thing. What else?

Joanna Jast
So, the key thing is actually I need to take a step back, because the key thing I did when I decided to address my procrastination problems was to understand what it was about. And I discovered that procrastinators, the main reason why I procrastinate is because I feel overwhelmed by the size of the task.
I’m a bit of short distance runner and I need to see the end in sight, but if I can’t see the end in sight, I become quite overwhelmed. So, what I’ve start doing is, if I’ve got a long distance task to complete, for example, writing a book. It’s a really long process. What I do is I break it down into manageable chunks from the beginning, and what I do is I prepare my workspace in such a way that in the evening, it’s all ready for my next steps.
So when I get up in the morning, I’m already on the way because I prepared what I need to do. For example, I’m going to have the software I’m going to use for writing open, and it is open on the page where I need to work on. And very often, I would start in the evening and even if I just do a couple of lines and then I will mark, “This is what I finished. I need to carry on from this point onwards. I’m already on the way.”
So, that makes me feel “Oh! Okay. I’m already on the way and I only have this little bit to do today and I can see the end in sight.” So, this is another system I built to overcome my natural tendency to procrastinate when I’m overwhelmed by the size of the task.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Thank you. So, you tell, is there anything else you want to make sure that we cover of here before we shift gears before we talk about your fast faves.

Joanna Jast
Well, I really wanted to make sure that your audience understands is that there is no one size fits all, and don’t use blanket advice you find out there. Really invest time and energy into exploring what is your focus problem is, and once you understand what it is, make sure that you know that this is a pattern rather than one-off and then decide if you want to work on it.
And very often, a little tip is the fastest way to improve your focus is to fix your environment. And particularly, I’m talking about things such as technology, things such as notifications, just, can you turn notifications off? Can you carve chunks of time when you are working in a situation when you’ve got your phone on silent, no notifications, or maybe you’re working wearing noise cancelling headphones. So, look at your environment first, see what you can tweak there and see what the result is.

Pete Mockaitis
Alright! Thank you. So, now could you start us off by sharing a favorite quote?

Joanna Jast
So my favorite quote is probably the one that I’ve already quoted that “our brain evolved to solve survival problems in an outdoor environment… and to do so in a nearly constant move and that’s a quote from John Medina’s book Brain Rules.

Pete Mockaitis
Alright. How about a favorite study or experiment or piece of research?

Joanna Jast
I have a number of them. Probably depends on what I’m working on at the moment. I’m going back and forth to the key study on willpower, because I’m working on my own willpower, on my own self-discipline. And the key study on willpower is the famous marshmallow experiment. So that’s the one I’m very much focused on right now.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh. Yes. That’s so fascinating. I was talking about that today with the children, whether they can resist getting the marshmallow now or they can get more later.

Joanna Jast
Later. Yes!

Pete Mockaitis
That’s cool. And how about your favorite book?

Joanna Jast
Again. Depends on the stage of what I working on. Most recently the key books for me have been Getting Things Done by David Allen

Pete Mockaitis
Oh. Yeah! Episode fifteen David Allen!

Joanna Jast
Yes! I love him too. Brain Rules by John Medina as well, which I believe saved my life a couple of years ago. And more recently, I’ve read Shane Snow’s book Smart Cuts which I’m fascinated by the term Smart Cuts and this is something where we started first talking about Shape Shifter’s Club, that’s what I wanted the Shape Shifter’s Club to be about, to find smart cuts for people to accelerate their learning and accelerate their personal change.

Pete Mockaitis
Beautiful. Thank you. How about a favorite tool you use often that’s helpful?

Joanna Jast
I am a pen and paper girl. So that’s my favorite tool, a pen and a piece of paper.

Pete Mockaitis
Beautiful. How about a favorite habit, a personal practice of yours?

Joanna Jast
I think, the key habit for me is my morning routine which was born back then many years ago, when I first started to get up early in the morning and study in my desk, so, I still continue that morning routine. Some of the elements have changed, but I still get up 5:00 in the morning and I start the day by doing the same things and that enabled me not only to learn a lot, become more productive but also to look forward to everyday because this is my favorite time of the day.

Pete Mockaitis
And how about a favorite sort of key nugget, something that you share that seems to really resonate with folks?

Joanna Jast
What I’ve already said about this “no one size fits all” and something that might have worked for, you know, 99% of the population might not work for you. And if it doesn’t work for you it doesn’t mean that there is something wrong with you, it’s just this piece of advice, this little strategy is not suitable for you. Go and find something else.

Pete Mockaitis
Alright. Where do we say it’s the best place to find your folks where to learn more and see what you’re up to?

Joanna Jast
So, it’s definitely my website, www.shapeshiftersclub.com. You can also find me on Quora, that’s my favorite procrastination, and that’s my favorite website.

Pete Mockaitis
What’s your Quora handle?

Joanna Jast
It’s JoannaJustOne.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Very good. Do you have a favorite challeng or parting call to action you’d like to leave folks with who were seeking if you are more awesome at your job?

Joanna Jast
So, my favorite call to action is to look at your environment. Look what’s there, what you can easily change that can really increase your productivity, improve your focus and best if this would happen immediately because then you’ve got that sense of achievement and you’ve got the sense that you actually have done something to improve your productivity or improve yourself.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, thank you.Well, Joanna this has been a lot of fun. Thanks so much for sharing your goods here. And I wish you lots of luck and have a good one.

Joanna Jast
Thank you very much for having me, Peter.