876: How to Present Like the Pros with Michael J. Gelb

Pete Mockaitis
Michael, welcome back to How to be Awesome at Your Job.

Michael J. Gelb
Thank you so much. Great to be with you.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I’m so excited to get into your wisdom about mastering the art of public speaking but, first, we got to hear about your juggling experience and performing with The Rolling Stones. What’s the scoop here?

Michael J. Gelb
Well, I worked my way through graduate school as a professional juggler. I used to do children’s parties, I would perform on the streets outside Harvard Square and in London Portobello Road. I worked at a few nightclubs as a juggler. And one day, I was in Hyde Park in London practicing with my juggling partner who used to be the head of Reuters. He was the science editor for Reuters for Europe.

And we were just minding our business juggling in Hyde Park, and a gentleman approached us, and he said, “I’m the tour manager for The Rolling Stones. Their concert tour theme is carnival. We need jugglers. We’ll pay you £50 each if you can come to Earls Court Theater tonight and juggle in between sets with Mick and the Stones.”

So, yeah, we did that and then that went well, so we got invited to the Knebworth Rock Festival where we juggled on a stage shaped like Mick Jagger’s mouth in front of an audience of more than 100,000 people.

Pete Mockaitis
Wow, that is cool. So, what I love about that is that when you’re juggling, your skills are on full display, like it’s clear, like, “Hey, we need you…”

Michael J. Gelb
Or your lack thereof, yes.

Pete Mockaitis
The Rolling Stones manager was like, “Hey, we need jugglers. I can clearly see they are capable of juggling, therefore, come on down.”

Michael J. Gelb
Right.

Pete Mockaitis
That is beautiful. Well, I’ve always had trouble with juggling. Any pro tips for folks getting started?

Michael J. Gelb
Yeah. So, I taught myself to juggle because my original teacher was a brilliant juggler but he didn’t know how to teach. So, he told me, “Take these three balls. Throw them up. Don’t let any of them drop.” So, unfortunately, many of us get turned off from all kinds of activities because we’re told, “Learn this but don’t make mistakes.” And that seemed crazy to me, so I said, “There has to be a better way.”

And I figured, “What if we just started with one ball and got comfortable tossing one ball? And then attempted two but let the balls drop so we could focus just on the throw. And then throw three, let them drop.” And once you get them flowing out of your hands in the right rhythm and pattern, it’s actually quite effortless. They start landing in your hands, and before you know it, you’re juggling. So, the secret is to focus on the throw, start with one ball, work your way up, and have fun.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Now, we know. See, that’s a freebie. We didn’t know we were covering that because we’re talking public speaking. So, you had an earlier version of a book on public speaking over 30 years ago. Tell us, what are some of the lessons that takes 30 years to learn about speaking that you can give us a shortcut for right now?

Michael J. Gelb
Well, they’re really actually pretty simple. The simplest one is to actually know what you’re talking about because people come up to me, and say, “Oh, I want to be a public speaker.” Well, what’s your message? What do you have to tell us? What interesting life experience have you had? What stories do you have to share? What wisdom have you gained and accrued that you will put forth in your presentation? So, we can’t emphasize enough the importance of having something valuable to say.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I think that sounds like, “Well, but of course.” But, really, though, I think that’s a powerful point that it’s easy to rush past, yet I think if we really stop and validate, there are many circumstances in which we don’t have something valuable to say, or, like, “Hey, there’s always a weekly staff meeting. That’s just what we do on the Mondays. Okay, and someone needs to present about this.”

So, I think that’s one context in which people speak without having something to say comes up. And I also think that sometimes speaking is not the best modality for conveying a thing, it’s like, “Hey, just write an email or send me a link to the cool TED Talk that does this better than you were going to say.” So, yeah, I think it’s worth lingering there a little bit. Tell us, how do we validate whether we got something worth saying and what might be some alternatives we should use instead?

Michael J. Gelb
Well, the key is to, then, marry what it is you think you have to say, what is your message, with an audience because, ultimately, the meaning of your communication is a function of the response you get from a given audience. So, who are you speaking to and why are you speaking to them? What is the purpose of your presentation? And I guide people before they give any kind of presentation.

And you’re right, it could be a staff meeting, it could be in an informal presentation, or it could be your big TED Talk, or a paid speech. Whatever it happens to be, I guide people to actually write down their objectives for each presentation in terms of, “What specifically do you want the audience to know? How do you want them to feel? And what do you want them to do as a result of your presentation?”

And the further guidance on the objectives, “know, feel, do” is, of course, to keep it simple, speaker. That’s my evolved version of KISS, the KISS principle, “Keep it simple, speaker.” So, simplify your message. Einstein said, “Things should be made as simple as possible, not simpler.” I call it optimal simplicity. Write down what do you want the audience to know, what do you want them to be able to remember.

So, for example, if this were a presentation on public speaking, one thing I want everybody on my presentation on public speaking to understand is, before your presentation, think about what you want the audience to know. Write it down. The second one is tricky. It’s how do you want them to feel. And this one is often lost in business presentations because we think it’s just about the facts or the ideas or the data, but people buy on emotion and they justify with fact.

So, it’s important to tune into the human quality in the interaction. It’s not just an exchange of data. If it was, you could just read it. It’s why we like live presentation with real human beings. It’s why people still, thank God, pay professional speakers to travel around the world and go give live speeches. You can watch what I say on video but people like it better when it’s spontaneous, real interaction, because of the emotional element. So, how do you want them to feel? And then, obviously, what do you want them to do?

Maybe it’s a sales presentation so you want them to buy something, for example. In a lot of staff meetings, maybe it’s just you want people to leave you alone, but you need to know specifically what’s your objective because when you know your message, when you know what you’re talking about, when you’ve done your homework, when you’ve done the preparation, you know who the audience is, you know what you want to tell them, you know why you want to tell it to them, how you want them to feel, what you want them to do as a result of the presentation, that organizes everything such that, well, one of my favorite sayings, “Everybody gets butterflies in the stomach before presenting,” but that’s how you get the butterflies to fly in formation.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. So, what do I want the audience to know, what do I want them to feel, and what do I want them to do. Can you give us an example of clear articulations of that? Because I think we can maybe be shallow, it’s like, “Oh, I want them to know my product is awesome, I want them to feel kind of excited about it, and I want them to buy it.” Is that detailed enough?

Michael J. Gelb
No. No.

Pete Mockaitis
Let’s hear it.

Michael J. Gelb
But you did a great imitation of a sort of generic, “Ooh, my product is awesome.” It would be good to have that degree of enthusiasm because one of the other huge points is people are always reading your energy, they’re reading your body language, they’re looking to see if there’s any discrepancy between what you’re saying, and your voice tonality, your facial expression, the way you look at them, your gestures. I call it body message synchrony, which is why it’s a really good idea to actually be aligned with and believe in whatever it is you are doing because it’s much easier to have that alignment happen naturally.

Pete Mockaitis
But to the point about synchrony, I think this evaluation that we’re doing, I agree that we’re doing it. I think, in my experience, I think we’re often doing it unconsciously or subconsciously and not so much, like, ticking the boxes with a close conscientious evaluation but rather you just get a vibe, like, “Eh, I’m kind of bored,” or, “Eh, there’s something a little off about this guy, and I don’t really care to dig in. And I don’t know if I trust him. I don’t think he would just straight up lie to me but something feels off here, and I’m just maybe going to tune out.”

Michael J. Gelb
Yes. Well, you’re exactly right. Most people just experience this without being aware of what it is specifically that is the discrepancy. Whereas, I can usually watch somebody and see what the discrepancy is. There’s an old Chinese saying, “Beware of the man whose belly does not move when he laughs.”

Pete Mockaitis
That is a creepy vibe, I will admit.

Michael J. Gelb
Yes, I’m good at that. But coming back to what you said earlier, so it’s not just good enough to say, “Well, gee, I want to tell them my product is awesome.” You probably want to think about what is your unique selling point, what is the specific advantage. Most importantly, what is the need that your product is going to meet that the audience actually has? And then, how can you help them feel that, oh, you’re here to help them?

I’m a big advocate of helping other people, that that’s how to have a successful happy life, that’s how to be a great presenter is, I’m genuinely interested. I want to help people. I’ve always made my living with that principle. There are plenty of people who find ways to make a living by doing other things, by focusing on pandering to people’s addictions and their fears and their anxieties. But if there’s an underlying ethical underpinning to how I teach presentation, it’s present something that will make the world a better place.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. So, we were in the example of selling something for what the knowing, feeling, and doing. It sounds like in a shallow version versus a bit more detailed. Can you give us another common case situation and what a robust articulation of what I want my audience to know, feel, and do sounds like?

Michael J. Gelb
Well, I’m working on a presentation right now, so rather than just telling you about something from the past. I’m working on a presentation for next week, and it’s a five-day seminar. And I am actually going through the whole week each day what I want the audience to know, feel, and do. And then I’m attempting to simplify the whole thing, and this is another point, a takeaway for people, which is I’m going to tell them, right up front on Monday morning at 9:00 o’clock, what it is they’re going to get through the course of the whole five days.

And I’ve been working on a way to codify it in a simple as possible and as memorable as possible a fashion, and I’m going to actually have them do a physical movement that represents each of the five essential things I want them to get in the course of the week. I’m going to introduce that right at the beginning of the week. I’m going to be reinforcing those five points throughout the course of the week. And guess what the last thing we’re going to do is? We’re going to review it again.

So, I’m confident that people will actually, not only understand what I teach them, and this is another critical point for presenting, because it’s easy for people to understand what you’re saying but will they remember it? And if you really want to be a great presenter, you not only get through to people, and they go, “Oh, yeah. Oh, wow, that’s cool. Oh, I didn’t see it that way,” but they also remember it, ideally, for many years to come.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah. Well, that sounds swell. So, then, in your specific instance here with the five-day situation, could you give us your articulation of the knowing, feeling, and doing?

Michael J. Gelb
Well, it might take a little while because I have to explain to you, I’m teaching something that’s a little bit off the beaten path of everyday business discourse, and it may not immediately directly relate. This is a Tai Chi Qi Gong seminar.

Pete Mockaitis
We got a Tai Chi seminar, and what do I want them to know, what do I want them to feel, what do I want them to do?

Michael J. Gelb
Well, so I’m teaching something called the five animal frolics.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. It sounds like a good time.

Michael J. Gelb
It’s really cool. I’m going to start by asking people, “Do you like animals?” And they’re all going to say, “Yes.” I say, “Do you like to frolic?” And they’ll say, “Yes, we do.” And I say, “Well, you’ve come to the right place.” And actually, the truth is, because it’s not just a talk, it’s a seminar, there’s a very important element, which is that I’ve learned over years of practical experience, which is it’s always important to connect with the audience first before you try to influence them or get into what you want them to know, feel, and do.

What you want them to feel is comfortable and happy and filled with anticipation and excitement, and you want them to know that they came to the right place by paying money to sign up for your seminar or your presentation, whatever it happens to be. So, I came up with, I was just working on this today when I went for my walk, “What’s the perfect way to get people to feel comfortable, to open up and start to get to know each other, that fits in with the theme of the course? It’s the five animal frolics.”

So, the five animals are the bear, the crane, like the heron, the deer, the monkey, and the tiger. So, I’m going to put the five animals, and I’ve created fabulous graphics for this and images of all of them, and I have poetry associated with each one of them, and music, not to mention the actual movements from the ancient Chinese lineage.

But what I’m going to do is just put the five animals on the board and I’m going to say, “Rank choice voting, describe yourself in terms of these five animals which is most like you, which is second most like you, third, fourth. And then we’re going to talk to everybody and tell everybody, first, one-to-one, and then small groups, and then altogether, who you are in terms of your five-animal ranking of yourself.

So, it’s a disarming, fun, playful way that will engage people with the content of the course. Because what I want them to know at the end of the course is what are the energetic qualities of these five animals and how can you access them.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. That’s what we want them to know. And what do we want them to feel?

Michael J. Gelb
Well, what I want them to feel, I actually want them to feel the quality of the bear, and to feel the quality of the crane, and to feel the quality of the deer, the monkey, and the tiger.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, this sounds like a fun time. I kind of want to be there.

Michael J. Gelb
Oh, it’s going to be awesome.

Pete Mockaitis
And I guess what they’ll do is just the actual bodily motions that you’re describing.

Michael J. Gelb
What I want them to do though is actually practice it. I’m not trying to sell them something. I’m not trying to do this so that they’ll buy something from me or hire me. I just want to give them the best possible experience, but part of what will be the measure of that is people will actually practice the five animals. And a lot of these people are advanced Tai Chi practitioners, so I have another thought in mind for them in terms of what I want them to do, which is to see how the animals play into their Tai Chi form and how it can empower the practice of their Tai Chi form.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Beautiful. All right. So, there we go, knowing, feeling, doing in that context. There we go. Well, so there’s so much good stuff in the book. I’m curious to hear a bit about the mind maps helping us communicate better. I am not much of a mind mapper myself, so, please enlighten me.

Michael J. Gelb
Well, it’s just a whole brain way to generate your ideas for any presentation. And, most importantly, for many people, it helps you remember what you’re going to say. So, it’s one thing to creatively generate it using keywords and images. That’s the essence of a mind map, is you’re expressing your ideas in images and keywords, and you’re generating the ideas first before you organize them. So, initially, it’s kind of messy because most people slow themselves down and limit their creativity because they try to organize their ideas before they generate them.

So, somebody sitting down to give a presentation will say, “Oh, what should I do, say, first?” That’s not the way to start. Don’t worry about what to do first. Just what might you say? Who’s there? What do you know about this? What’s the topic? What stories do you have? So, just put it all out in a non-linear fashion to start with. Then the coolest thing happens when you do it first in this creative free-flowing non-linear way. You step back and then you say, “What would be a good order to present this in?” And it just becomes apparent. It organizes itself.

Then you redo your mind map so it’s in clockwise rotation, and then you make an image and a keyword to go with each branch of the map. And images and keywords are way easier to remember than outlines or paragraphs or sentences.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, it’s funny, as I was imagining, “Hey, I want to say a bunch of stuff.” So, one, I have poor handwriting and drawing skills, and type fast, so I tend to jump, which is lean digital in a lot of ways here. So, when you talked about just putting all the things out there in their natural organization, I was imagining using my shortcuts to move it up a line, down a line, but what you said toward the end is that, “Okay, we got the sequence of things.” But in having a circle rotation with the keyword and image, we have engaged the brain in such a way that it’s easier to remember the sequence of things we’re going to say.

Michael J. Gelb
That is correct.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. That’s cool. And so, I heard a tip, to rotate your portrait landscape piece of paper, landscape over your mind map.

Michael J. Gelb
Oh, landscape. So, mind map, the classical way to do it, which I still do myself and I recommend to all my students, is landscape not portrait because it’s easier to spread out and go in different directions. Start with an image in the center even if you think you can’t draw because it will engage the imaginative pictorial part of your mind. And then print keywords and other images as they arise, put them on lines. The reason to print them is so you can read your own writing because when you start to really get into this, the images and ideas start to flow, and it’s easy for it to get so messy that you can’t read it

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Cool. All right. So, we got a real thing to say, we got clarity on what I want the audience to know, feel, and do, we’ve got it nicely mind-mapped, so we’ve got a masterplan, and we’re not going to forget it. So, I’d love to get your perspective in terms of when you’re actually up in there with the audience, what are some of the best ways to really establish a connection so that you’re vibing together real time?

Michael J. Gelb
Yes. Well, it’s to genuinely care about your audience and care about your message. People sense if you’re genuine. So, that’s one really fundamental element. The other is to put in your time to prepare, to rehearse. A lot of people just go out and try to give their presentation for the first time in front of a live audience, so you’re not used to saying the words, you’re not used to telling the stories.

So, you met my wife, Debra, before, and whenever I’m getting ready to do a presentation, I give it to her multiple times. I tell her, “Wait.” We just went for a walk. I actually gave her the five-animal frolics presentation so that I can practice what it’s like to just say this to another person so it’s not happening for the first time.

And if you rehearse, your rehearsal is the time to make lots of mistakes and to anticipate the needs of the audience in terms of potentially awkward questions you might get. Whereas, if the first time you ever get the awkward question is live in front of the audience, it might throw you off. Now, having said that, there’s a lot of suggestions in the book, in Mastering the Art of Public Speaking on how to get your system aligned so that you won’t freak out if something unexpected happens but you have to practice those before you get up there, too.

If you’re not practicing the things that are in the book, and somebody blindsides you or just ask something that’s challenging, or difficult, or that you didn’t expect, or that you just don’t know, we’ve all seen people get embarrassed and have very difficult experiences, which is why public speaking is the number one fear of the American public.

Pete Mockaitis
And so, what is the procedure by which you prep for the unexpected? One thing that I’ve found does loads for my own confidence is just imagining worst-case scenarios and questions from hell that I really don’t want to get, and then just preparing for all those. And then I just feel like I can’t think of anything that was not going to work, so it’s like, “Oh, what if they don’t have…?”

I remember when I did a lot more keynotes, I would have a Mac, and I just love the look of terror in their eyes, like, when they would say, “Do you have the adaptor?” I was like, “Yes, I have the adaptor.”

Michael J. Gelb
I always make them bring their own computer, I say, “You provide the computer, you set it up. I will send you everything way in advance. You get it set up. I’ll come in the night before. I’ll go over the whole thing.”

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, that’s good. That’s good. I found that they have a hard time with my custom fonts, and then they’re like, “I can’t make them go,” or, “I have a different version of PowerPoint or Keynote, and then it didn’t translate.” It’s like they’re not up to it, they’re not up to the task of getting it on their computers successfully.

Michael J. Gelb
Well, speaking of computers and preparation rehearsal, I got to tell you, here’s another very recent real-life story about why it’s so important. So, a couple months ago, I was invited to speak at a conference in Trinidad, sponsored by the biggest company in Trinidad and their business school. And they also invited the co-author of my book The Healing Organization, Professor Raj Sisodia.

So, Raj was supposed to speak and I was supposed to speak on the same day. So, I said to Raj, “Let’s make sure we get there the afternoon before, and just go through our presentations together because I want to make sure that they’ve got it working,” and, as you know, the fonts sometimes come out differently because of their system or what, so you want to go through it, make sure the clicker works, check the light. You check everything well beforehand so you can make changes if you need to.

So, it turns out that they had basically said to Raj, “We want you to speak about The Healing Organization,” that’s the name of our book, and they said to me, “We want you to speak about The Healing Organization.” So, Raj and I had prepared pretty much the same presentation almost with the same slides. So, if we hadn’t met and reviewed this, now the truth is I would’ve been able to improvise. If he went first, and I suddenly saw he had done everything that I was going to do, I can improvise, this is a professional thing, is don’t be dependent on anything. If the audio/visuals fail, if your PowerPoint doesn’t work, you’re ready to rock and roll no matter what.

So, sure enough, we see we have the same slides, we were going to do a lot of the stuff in the same order, so, obviously, I said to Raj, “Let’s change this up. What would you most like to do about this?” So, he said what he wanted to do. I said, “Okay, you go first and do all that in the morning, and then, at the end of the day…” So, we changed places, we had to get the staff to buy into sending out a message explaining that they were changing the order of the speakers at the last moment.

We got them to buy in. And then Raj went first, he gave his presentation, I re-ordered all my slides, I referred back to how he started the day. That’s another thing when you’re presenting with other people. You always make them look good. You always highlight the brilliance of what they said. You share it again because we have a much happier, more beautiful world, plus Raj happens to be an incredibly brilliant guy, so it was easy for me to do that.

And then the audience goes, “Oh, yeah, I remember that this morning.” And so, they’re getting more depth of connection with what he said, and then I’m using that as a launching point for the next point that I want to tell them. And one of the things I wanted them to do is invite us back, which they already have.

Pete Mockaitis
There you go. Success.

Michael J. Gelb
Yeah.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, tell me, Michael, anything else you really want to make sure to mention before we shift gears and hear about some of your favorite things?

Michael J. Gelb
Anything you want to know, it’s about you and the audience. I’m here to share anything you might want to know.

Pete Mockaitis
I guess, tell us, do you have any super tricks for overcoming the fear?

Michael J. Gelb
Yeah, the two most important ones, one is to actually be prepared and know what you’re talking about and know what your objectives are. When you know why you’re doing something and you have stories to tell, almost everybody speaks naturally and freely and openly. They don’t say uhm and ahh and you know if they’re telling a story. So, figure out what your story is, why you’re telling it, that will help tremendously.

The other thing is why do I teach all this Tai Chi and Qi Gong and Alexander technique, because your physical presence and your energy on the stage makes a huge difference to the audience but also to you. So, if you have done a preparatory energy-harmonizing practice, and there are lots of them in the book, the most effective ones that I have learned in 50 years of being a professional speaker, they’re in the book.

So, if you do any, find which ones works best for you. I try to give people options. One of the simplest ones, because you’re nervous, you’re anxious, the adrenaline is starting to flow, just do some exercise, do jumping jacks, just do some shadow boxing, do something that gets your energy moving rather than just sitting there, as people do, waiting for their turn to speak. It’s like waiting to go to the gallows for a lot of people.

So, their body, their energy is stuck. It’s the fear pattern of stress, and, “What happens if this goes wrong?” and all the adrenaline. And then they’re getting cotton mouth, and they feel like they’re having trouble breathing. I’m laughing only because it’s so easy to solve this. Don’t sit there and stew in your own stress hormones. Get up and move. And then I give all kinds of options. The most sophisticated, which comes from the Alexander technique and Tai Chi and Qi Gong.

Pete Mockaitis
And can you give us a tidbit from the Alexander technique?

Michael J. Gelb
Sure. So, Alexander was a professional presenter. He was a Shakespearean actor. And he probably was losing this voice in the middle of presentations, so he came up with a methodology to free himself from this pattern, became famous on the stage, and, ultimately, became even more famous for teaching this method to other actors and singers. It’s still taught today at The Juilliard School and the Royal Academy of Drama, the Royal Academy of Music. It’s like a trade secret of the theatrical profession.

And the simplest practice from the Alexander technique is to, you can do this, you can just stand in front of a mirror, and be as upright as you can be, and smile, and then let go of everything you don’t need to stand there, and stay standing.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Lovely. All right. Well, now could you share with us a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Michael J. Gelb
One of my favorite quotes is from the young Leonardo da Vinci who said, “I wish to work miracles.”

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And a favorite study or experiment or bit of research?

Michael J. Gelb
I tell you, my favorite study related to presenting is a study that was done with inmates at Rahway State Prison, and they asked muggers in the prison to look at videos of people walking down the street, and say who they would mug. And the muggers said that they would mug anybody who looked out of it, who wasn’t paying attention, who looked weak, they would attack.

Interestingly, anybody who looked kind of arrogant, they wanted to attack. People who looked balanced, poised, and present, the muggers said, “I just wouldn’t bother that person. There are too many easier targets.” And the lesson is when you walk on stage, don’t be mug-able.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Good lesson. And so, it didn’t have anything to do with them looking rich, like, “Ooh, they got the expensive sneakers, or they…”?

Michael J. Gelb
Well, the thing is if you’re rich and you’re not paying attention…

Pete Mockaitis
Double whammy, okay.

Michael J. Gelb
Right.

Pete Mockaitis
I got you. And a favorite book?

Michael J. Gelb
Favorite book. Well, there are lots of them but my seminal book that inspired me was, Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl.

Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite tool, something you use to be awesome at your job?

Michael J. Gelb
Oh, my favorite tool is the juggling ball.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. So, do you squeeze it or what do you do with it when you’re just working?

Michael J. Gelb
Well, juggle it, and then I also, see, I juggle them. I have them everywhere. See, I have this one. Can you see what it says on it?

Pete Mockaitis
IBM.

Michael J. Gelb
Because I taught a thousand IBM engineers how to juggle.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, cool.

Michael J. Gelb
And so, I kept my IBM juggling ball. I have all sorts of corporate juggling balls all over my office. But actually, I juggle them as well as using them as wrist flexibility and strengthening gadgets.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And a favorite habit?

Michael J. Gelb
Favorite habit. Well, I suppose this is a habit, is walking. I go for a walk. Walking, obviously, I walked into my office to talk to you, but I made it pretty much, we could call it a ritual, maybe a habit to go for a walk in the beautiful around the ponds and through the trees. I’ve done two so far today. I may do one more, possibly two.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And is there a key nugget you share that really seems to connect and resonate with folks; they quote it back to you often?

Michael J. Gelb
Well, what people quote back to me most often is that it’s really because they’ve read How to Think Like Leonardo da Vinci, which is my most well-known book, is that they quote back to me, and say, “Da Vinci was always my inspiration, and thank you for bringing him to life for me.”

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, lovely. And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Michael J. Gelb
MichaelGelb.com. G-E-L-B, MichaelGelb.com.

Pete Mockaitis
And do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks looking to be awesome at their jobs?

Michael J. Gelb
The call to action and the final thought is take every opportunity to present. You have to practice. So, think of yourself as a professional presenter. Even if you’re not going to do it for money, eventually, you’re going to keep your job, I think it’s actually the number one thing you can do beyond your technical expertise to strengthen your long-term career prospects and be awesome at your job.

Because if somebody else is technically competent, and you’re technically competent, the person who’s better able to speak to people and get a powerful message across is the one who’s going to be that much more awesome at their job, and have that much greater career prospect.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Michael, thank you. This has been a treat. I wish you much luck and fun amidst your animal frolicking.

Michael J. Gelb
Thanks so much. My pleasure.