782: How to Overcome Distraction through Minimalism with Joshua Becker

Pete Mockaitis
Joshua, welcome to How to be Awesome at Your Job.

Joshua Becker
Oh, it is good to be here. Thank you for the invitation.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, certainly. Well, I’m excited to talk about your book, Things That Matter: Overcoming Distraction to Pursue a More Meaningful Life. But, first, I want to hear a little bit about you and your family’s story. You’ve become a minimalist. What does that mean in practice? And what’s the tale behind it?

Joshua Becker
Yeah, okay. Well, yeah, let’s start with the easy stuff, huh? Small background, I grew up pretty typical middle-class America. I’ve been married now for 23 years and have two kids. And like most American families, it seems like whenever we got a pay increase, we just increase the size of our house and increase the amount of stuff in it.

My life changed 14 years ago, my son was five, my daughter was two, and I was introduced to minimalism on a Saturday morning. I was living in Vermont at the time, Phoenix is now home for me. But I was living in Vermont and we had had this long winter. We were into our spring cleaning. I offered to clean out the garage that had gotten all dirty and disheveled over the course of the winter.

My son, Salem, was five at the time, for some reason, had this vision that he was going to enjoy cleaning the garage with his father but he lasted about 30 seconds and went into the backyard, and my garage project just compounded and compounded, and hours later, I was still working on the same garage. And I started complaining about it to my neighbor who was doing all of her yard work, and she introduced me to minimalism. She said, “You know, that’s why my daughter is a minimalist. She keeps telling me I don’t need to own all this stuff.”

And I remember looking at the pile of things in my driveway, dirty and dusty. I’d spent all day taking care of them, and out of the corner of my eye, there was my five-year-old son swinging alone on the swing set in the backyard where he had been all morning long. And I suddenly realized, Pete, that not only were my possessions not making me happy, like most of us would say, but even worse, all the things I own were actually distracting me from the very thing that did bring me happiness in life. And not just happiness, but purpose and meaning and joy and fulfillment.

So, that was the start of our journey into minimalism, our journey into owning less so that I could free up more of my life for the things that actually do bring back dividends that pay off in the long run.

Pete Mockaitis
And so, owning less, I mean, there’s such a spectrum between stuff and how much is enough, and too much and not enough. How do you think about that?

Joshua Becker
Yeah. So, it’s very interesting because when I…so, this was 14 years ago. I don’t think there were any…I think I was the first blog. I started a blog that weekend, just a diary. Becoming Minimalist is the name of the website. And I started it just to keep track of what we were doing and what I was getting rid of. Becoming minimalist was a decision that we had made and so it seemed like the perfect title for the website.

At that time, most people writing about minimalism, they were in their 20s, and they were backpacking around the world, or they owned a hundred things, or 20 things, and like I was never drawn to that type of lifestyle. I liked my neighborhood, I liked the school that my kids were going to, I liked having people over into our home that were new to the neighborhood, or I worked at a church at the time, people who were to the church.

And so, minimalism for me never became about, “I just want to own the least amounts of things as possible.” That’s not ever what I pursued. I pursued “I want to own just the right amounts of things so that I can focus most of my life on the things that matter.” And that’s always going to change from person to person. It’s going to look different from a family of eight to a single person in their 20s.

It’s going to look different if you live in the country, if you live in the city, if you’re an architect, or a teacher, or a writer, or a farmer, or a mechanic. Like, you’re going to own different things in order to pursue those things that are most important to you but, in most cases, the things that we’ve accumulated and the things that we continue to pursue have actually become the distraction from those greatest values in life.

And so, how each person finds that, I think, looks different from how they shake out looks from person to person but I think the value is in the pursuit and in starting to recognize how possessions become so much of a distraction from us for us.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And so then, in the book Things That Matter, are we talking distractions in terms of like physical stuff items as well as what are some other key distractions?

Joshua Becker
Sure. Possessions is a chapter in the book but there are eight distractions that I cover in the book that distract us from a meaningful life. I cover fear, I cover past mistakes, I cover the selfish pursuit of happiness, the distraction of money, the distraction of possessions, the distraction of accolades, the distraction of leisure, and the distraction of technology, or maybe trivial is a better way to say that last one.

So, yeah, people hear the title Things That Matter: Overcoming Distraction to Pursue a More Meaningful Life and they think, “That is a book I need to read. My phone is definitely a distraction,” like we can all picture that one. And then I think the book really hopefully, challenges us to think through distraction in broader and more socially ingrained ways than simply, “I’m playing too many levels of Candy Crush on my phone.”

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, before we dig into a couple of them in particular, are there any sort of fundamental mindsets, beliefs, habits, behaviors that transcend or cover all of them that’ll be handy for folks to take on in terms of pursuing a more meaningful life and being more awesome at their jobs?

Joshua Becker
Yeah, they’re very broad and they’re very varied. The distraction of fear is very different than the distraction of social media. But if I were to try to boil down the premise of the book that I think applies to all of them, it would be I start with a story of my grandfather who asked me to play a part in his funeral. It was really a life changing conversation hearing my grandpa talk about death, not fearing death, not regretting that death was coming, but proud of the way he had lived his life, so much so that he had few regrets about how he had lived.

And my question became, “How do we get to the end of our lives with fewer regrets?” And I think the way we do it is we identify what is essential, we identify what is important, we look at the distractions that are keeping us from those main pursuits in life, and then we work to overcome them every single day going forward.

And so, if there’s any uniting thought between the distractions, it’s that we were designed to live meaningful lives, that there are pursuits and there are good…there’s a good that we can bring into the world that no one else can bring into the world, and we need to work hard to overcome those distractions that keep us from it, and realize that it’s not a one-and-done thing, that we need to do this every single day when we wake up, to take it to work every single day when we go to work. We need to overcome the distractions that keep us from doing our best, most meaningful work in our jobs.

Pete Mockaitis
And do you have any sort of key guiding principles or questions or thought exercises to help us zero in and distinguish the essential from the nonessential?

Joshua Becker
Well, yeah, very interestingly, we did a survey for the book and one of the questions we asked is, “Would you say that you have identified a clear purpose for your life?” And I was surprised 70% of people say that they have identified a clear purpose for their life, which I thought it would be lower but I was excited to see so many people who would say that.

We asked a follow-up question, “How often do you feel you are spending time and resources on less important pursuits at the expense of things that matter?” and 77% of people say that they often spend time and money and energy on things that aren’t as important as that thing that their clear purpose is. And so, number one, I think there’s just a thought process to taking a look at our passions, taking a look at our abilities, the personality that we have, and working hard to discover, like, “What is most important to me? And what role can I play in bringing that about or in pursuing that goal?”

Just thinking of all the different problems in the world, this is a side note but I’m pretty convinced one of the reasons we have so much division in our country, in the world today is that people are passionate about different problems, and we seem to have begun judging people in that way, that, “If you are not as passionate about the same problem that I’m passionate about, then there’s something wrong with you, or you’re distracted,” rather than leaning into, “Hey, I’m passionate about solving this problem. I’m passionate about serving this person,” and leaning into that.

So, I think, number one, just elevating what it is that we want to do in the world and the role that we want to play and how we bring about the greatest good for the greatest number of people is how I like to say that, and then starting each day with a thought exercise. I would just call it setting my intention every day, that I wake up every day and one of my first thoughts, usually when I’m in the shower, is, “Hey, today I commit myself to…” something and fill in that blank, and it’s usually the same thing every day.

But somehow starting the day and setting, “Hey, this is what I’m pursuing this day. This is what’s going to be important to me today.” I’ve learned that in college from a mentor of mine, and I’ve tried to keep it as a daily exercise as much as possible.

Pete Mockaitis
And could you give us some examples of articulations of both a life purpose as well as a daily intention?

Joshua Becker
Yeah. For me, I think they’ll, hopefully, stem from each other. So, for me, I would say there’s three main purposes that I have with my life, and the first two come from the first one. So, like my greatest purpose in life, my greatest goal in life, the thing I desire most is I want to be a faithful follower of God. So, my faith has always been important to me and this is always my driving force.

Beneath that, I want to be a faithful husband. I want to be an intentional father. I want to focus on the relationships that are in front of me. So, I always want relationships to be important to me. And the second thing, or the third thing, depending on how you’re counting, is I want to make an impact in the world, and I want to use my gifts and talents, and I want to help as many people as I possibly can.

And so, those are the main driving forces in my life. As opposed to I want to make as much money as possible, I want to be as famous as possible, I want to rise to the top of my corporation, I want to own a house in that neighborhood. Those are the purposes that drive me the most. And then, of course, I think the goals along the way change.

So, my son just left for college, and so, me being an intentional father when he’s 19 is different than me being an intentional father when he’s three, but it’s the same purpose. The goals just change. And so, for me, my daily intention every morning would be I want to, again, just as a faith-based intention, I want to honor God with my day.

So, that’s how I would set out every single morning, but it might look different for someone else, “I want to be the best mom that I can be today,” “I want to be the best architect that I can be today,” “I want to serve people the best that I can today.” It looks different for different people.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, then zooming into the eight distractions, can we zero in on a couple? Like, what do you think are the most widespread destructive and easiest to get some quick wins on?

Joshua Becker
Yeah. So, good ones because, How to be Awesome at Your Job podcast, man, so many I think of these distractions can pop up in work specifically, or in life more generally. Fear, I think, the distraction of fear can pop up, I think, in our work over and over again. And what’s really interesting, a friend of mine, actually, brought about this distraction. It wasn’t on my radar when I was penciling out the book or had the idea for the book, and so he’s the one that kind of shared it with me.

And the more research I did into fear, really, the more fascinating it became that I interviewed someone for the book, his story is in the book, and he’s always had this fear of failure. And it was interesting because he would say that his fear of failure, as he looks back over his jobs and careers, he said, “My fear of failure follows me.” And he said, “Even when I became more successful in organization, the more successful I became, the more my fear of failure began to haunt me,” is the way he would say.

And so, as he rose up in the corporation and got more and more responsibilities, and closer and closer to the top, he said, “My fear of failing, my fear of being found out that I’m not actually good at my job,” would like, eventually, he said it led him to resign from every good job he’s ever had. And it was a new way for me to look at fear that it’s not something that we just overcome one time, but we recognize it over and over again, and how the fear of failure can force us to set low expectations or small goals.

One of the ways we overcome the fear of failure is we just try little things. We’d set very easy goals that we can attain because we don’t want to really march for something that we might not attain. So, certainly, I think that’s a big one.

Pete Mockaitis
And so, if we do have that fear, and maybe it’s failure or something else, and that can, one, just suck in terms of the experience of having that over your shoulder, and, two, cause us to not stretch for opportunities that are bigger or riskier, how do we overcome that distraction?

Joshua Becker
Yeah. Well, number one, I think we become aware of it. I mean, number one, I think we, just in that conversation with my friend, it was interesting. Like, I think he was learning as much about himself in my interview as he knew going in, he’s like, “You know what, I think this has led to me leaving every job I’ve had, now that I’m saying it out loud, and now that I’m talking about it.”

And he would trace it back to just conversations, I think, he had with his father and some of the words that his father spoke into him about being good for nothing. And he said, “I feel like I thought that I had overcome that but now I can recognize that it’s still sabotaging me even to today.” So, I think recognizing that.

Number two, I think believing people when they speak confidence into us, to not push those compliments aside as just flattery or someone trying to get something out of us, but if we’ve heard this compliment over and over again that we’re good at something, to begin believing it. I’m not the type of person who says that we always avoid fear.

Like, I think there is some healthy fear that we have in life. Fear, hopefully, keeps us from doing dumb things. But it’s when the fear is irrational, when, “Hey, I have been successful in my career. These are competent people ahead of me in the organization, that they keep promoting me or keep giving me more responsibility. Why am I so afraid that I can’t do this job? Or, why am I afraid of taking on this new responsibility, or taking on this new project, or really trying at this new goal? Or, why would I let one setback keep me from trying again if this is really what I feel like I’m supposed to do and good that I can bring about into the world?”

So, I think recognizing that, and looking back at our past, and learning from others, and putting some safety nets in place, I guess, if we need to. I tell a story how I transitioned. So, I worked at a church, now I just write full time, and that’s a pretty fearful thing for me to do to become self-employed and become a full-time writer. And along the way, there were, “We can save some money and we can put some money aside to dissipate that fear a little bit.” So, putting some of that safety net in place as well.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, let’s talk about money next as a distraction. How does that cause havoc?

Joshua Becker
Eighty percent of Americans, actually it’s 79% of Americans say they’ll be happier if they have more money. And over 90% of Americans have financial-related stress, which has always been a really fascinating statistic to me. I think it’s like 92% of Americans have financial-related stress.

And there are certainly some people who don’t have enough money but it is not 92% of us. We are statistically the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, and still 90 plus percent of us are worried about money. It’s not because we don’t have enough money. It’s not because we don’t have enough income coming in, in most cases. It is simply because we have started looking for money to bring something into our lives that it is never able to provide – happiness and security.

We think that more money will make us happier. We think more money will make us feel more secure. Eighty-seven percent of millionaires say that they are not wealthy. And there was a study done by Boston College, and they did a study of the ultra-rich, they called it. And among people with a $20 million net worth or more, when asked if they had enough money, the most common response is, “I just need 25% more and then I’ll feel secure.”

And so, what happens is we start chasing happiness and we start chasing security in money, and then we start making more money, our net worth goes up, or our income goes up, and we realize that we’re not that much happier, we don’t feel that much more secure. And so, rather than thinking, “Hey, maybe money isn’t going to provide this happiness and security,” we tend to just think that we had the wrong number in mind, and we start thinking, “Oh, I just need that much money,” or, “I need that much income.”

77% of Americans say that, almost daily, they’re motivated by having more money. And I think this plays into our job, this plays into our work because the goal of our work, the goal of our job becomes, “How do I make more money in my job?” rather than, “How do I serve people better in my job? How do I find more meaning in my job? How do I help people more in my job?”

When the motivation just becomes, “How do I get more money?” I think that we lose out on a lot of satisfaction, and a lot of fulfilment, a lot of meaning, and even a lot of growth that we can find in our work and in our job and in our careers.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, that really resonates and this reminds me, I’ve quoted this a couple of times, but this song “Ill With Want” by The Avett Brothers. There’s just a stanza that just grabs me, that 25% more comment, it goes –

“I am sick with wanting
And it’s evil how it’s got me
And everyday is worse than the one before
The more I have the more I think
I’m almost where I need to be
If only I could get a little more.”

And it’s like that is it. And I kind of tease myself if I start falling for that, whether it’s money or…I think about podcast downloads, like, “Oh, boy, when I have 18 million downloads, then I’ll be happy.” It’s like the absurdity, and much like the possessions, not only is it sort of maybe enough, but it could be actively harming you if you’re pursuing more money at the expense of other dimensions of your career that really are bigger drivers of happiness.

And I think it was a paper with Daniel Kahneman and others, and I’ve updated the number for inflation a few times, but it’s something like in America, they didn’t see happiness gains above $75,000 or they became quite minimal at that point, which I thought that kind of resonates, like, “Okay, when you’re not worried about your home, your vehicle, your food, your ability to do a bit of saving and giving, then that’s a lot to just take care of them.”

Joshua Becker
There’s a Harvard study and they surveyed 100,000 adults, which I always think it’s, for me, the go-to study on money and happiness. There’s literally some studies say there’s no connection between money and happiness. Some 75,000 is the most common quoted one. There’s one study that said it’s 24,000. There’s one study that literally says the more money you have, the happier you can be.

But this Harvard study, they tried to really sort out this answer, and what they discovered was it’s not so much about how much money you have, but it’s “What priority are you making money in your life?” And what they discovered is that people who trade off more important things to get more money end up less happy than those who just pursue the things that are important. And so, for them it’s about time, and it was this whole idea of, “Hey, if I just work really hard for the next six months, then I’ll make it financially and I can finally focus on the things that matter most.”

If that’s the thinking that we embrace in our jobs, those people always end up less happy even if they have more money than the person who says, “No, I have enough already and I’m just going to focus my time on family, or I’m going to focus my time on hobbies, or focus my time on these pursuits that mean the most to me.” And so, I think that’s one of the things.

Like, there’s no limit to the amount…I would say there’s no limit to the amount of money making opportunities in the world, like if the goal just becomes, “I want to have more money,” like there’s no end to the amount of things that we can sacrifice or give up in pursuit of that because I don’t think we never reach that security that we think it’s going to bring us, and so we just constantly want more, and we take on the new opportunity and the new clients, or whatever it might be.

Anyway, and here, your story about the podcast is great because there’s a whole chapter on accolades, which is basically that whole point. In some ways, podcast downloads equals money in some indirect way or direct ways.

Pete Mockaitis
Or likes.

Joshua Becker
Yeah, but when the goal becomes, “Hey, I just want this many people to know my name,” or. “This many people to be listening to the podcast,” or, “This many people to be mentioning me,” what it can do, like you know this, like it can change the content of your podcast. Like, you know by now, a topic you could put on that is going to be really popular and is going to be downloaded pretty often, like I know the articles that I can write on Becoming Minimalist that are going to go more viral, but they aren’t necessarily the content that helps people the most, or is the most meaningful work that I can do, same with your podcast, I’m sure.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah. Well, I guess I do think that way about the podcast and meaning because I believe the most popular podcast categories are news, sports, politics, true crime. And I’ve listened to three out of four of those categories, and that’s kind of entertaining, occasionally riveting, but it rarely improves the quality of my life in terms of, like I heard an awesome hacker story.

And, okay, maybe there’s an actionable nugget about password manager, and it was a thrill for the moment. We’re talking about Darknet Diaries, Jack Rhysider, a free shoutout. But in terms of that’s what gets me going is when listeners say, “Whoa, I did this thing, and I got this result, and life is better from that.” Like, that’s the coolest.

Joshua Becker
Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think that, I mean, there’s a time and a space for sports and entertainment and hobbies, like not to discount those things, but, for me, yeah, you could get more podcast downloads by doing something. I could write the article.

Pete Mockaitis
“One weird trick to become minimalist.”

Joshua Becker
“One weird trick to never clutter again.” And I just know that it’s going to get a lot of clicks and it’s going to get a lot of views, but it’s not true. There isn’t an easy one-step answer to some of these things, so.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, let’s talk about technology. That is often the source of much distraction. Any unique insights to share here?

Joshua Becker
Yeah, my approach to technology is, and obviously it’s always going to be an important chapter in the book, look, I get to do what I do today because of technology, and so this was never going to be, “Hey, how do we avoid technology? And technology is evil.” We’re here today because of technology. What I think the problem is, the way I look at technology is I try to notice a difference between creation and consumption when it comes to technology.

I can use technology to write an article, I can use technology to be on this podcast, I can use technology to create something that’s going to spread on social media, or I can use technology to scroll cat videos, or play Candy Crush, or watch and binge another season of something on Netflix. And so, noticing in my life the difference between, “Hey, I’m using technology to bring about good,” or, “I’m just using it and it’s become a distraction.”

And so, that’s always the first way that I think about technology to try to help me, I think, notice the good and the bad. And, again, not that there’s not a space for cat videos and whatever the video game is that we might be playing, but when it becomes a distraction is when it becomes the problem. And, for me, I have always taken, I started about four, five years ago, I started taking one annual tech fast every single year.

And the first time I did it, it was for 40 days. I’ve done it as low as 14 days and up to 40 days, which was the longest, where I just set aside a time where I do, ideally, no technology in my life. That’s not usually possible with my job and with most people’s jobs, but there are still limitations that we can put on it in terms of, “Hey, I’m just going to use my computer when I’m at work. I’m not going to do anything. I’m not going to do social media for 14 days, or I’m not going to play my games for 14 days, turn off the TV for 14 days,” whatever it might be, and having that period of time.

Well, for me, going that whole cold turkey route is better than, “Hey, I’m just going to turn off the TV at 9:00 p.m.,” or, “I’m going to limit my social media to 30 minutes a day.” I’ve always just done better with three weeks of no social media, three weeks of no television, and then I always think it helps me evaluate better when I come back.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, and then you can really feel, I think, more of the impact and the difference, like, “Huh, okay.” Like, if I go on a camping trip where technology just isn’t even an option, it’s like, “Oh, there’s some loveliness here,” versus if it’s just small changes or interventions, often lead to small results, but not always. That’s rather exciting when there’s levels there.

Joshua Becker
I always think like a food detox is a way to think about that. If I think, “Hey, maybe I’m allergic to dairy,” and you take it out of your diet for a month, and then the first time you come back and have a glass of milk, and you can feel it, you’re like, “Oh, this actually was having a more negative impact on my body than I thought it was. I thought it was just normal how I felt but now I can see that the impact that it has.”

And so, you cut out social media for a month, over the month of July, or the month of August, and you enjoy your summer, and then you come back in, you’re like, “Oh, this is kind of a waste of time scrolling this constantly every evening.”

Pete Mockaitis
Well, Joshua, tell me, anything else you want to make sure to mention before we hear about some of your favorite things?

Joshua Becker
We asked, “How much your past was harming your future?” and 61% of people self-reported that something they had done in the past, a past mistake was keeping them from the future they wanted, and 55% of people said that a past mistake committed against them was keeping them from the life that they wanted to be living in the future. And that’s just the people that could identify it.

And, certainly, there’s a lot of overlap there but, man, that is a lot of bottled-up potential. That’s a lot of people who can say, “Hey, I am not able to live the life I want today because of something that happened in my past.” And I just encourage people, if that’s you, to turn and face that problem, whether it’s getting professional help or reading something or talking to a friend. Like, it doesn’t have to be that way. It’s not easy to overcome but it’s a distraction I really think we need to work hard to overcome.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, now can you share a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Joshua Becker
Yeah, a favorite quote, actually one that I use in the opening chapter of Things That Matter came from Seneca, the philosopher, and this is what he said, he said, “It’s not that we have a short time to live, but that we waste a lot of it. Life is long enough and a sufficiently generous amount has been given to us for the highest achievement if it were all well-invested. But when it is wasted in heedless luxury and spent on no good activity, we’re forced at last by death’s final constraints to realize that it passed away before we knew it was passing,” which is very much, I think, the message of minimalism and the message of this book that we would invest our lives in things that matter.

Pete Mockaitis
And could you share a favorite book?

Joshua Becker
A favorite book, man, the greatest book that I read recently is The Greatest Salesman in the World. It’s an old book and I bought it for everyone on my team, and I recommend it to everyone.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite tool, something you use to be awesome at your job?

Joshua Becker
Yeah, I mean, I just want to say my computer here. My favorite tool, got to be my laptop computer, as boring as that sounds. I make my living online and I have found it to be a powerful opportunity to influence people.

Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite habit?

Joshua Becker
My favorite habit is I go to the gym every morning and I work out every morning an hour before starting at work, and it’s become my favorite habit for the last several years.

Pete Mockaitis
And is there a key nugget you share that really seems to connect and resonate with folks; they quote it back to you often?

Joshua Becker
Yeah, own less, live more, that our lives are too valuable to waste chasing and accumulating material possessions.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Joshua Becker
My homebase online is BecomingMinimalist.com. So, everything, I do quite a few things but that’s the best place to always find me.

Pete Mockaitis
And do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks looking to be awesome at their jobs?

Joshua Becker
Find the meaning in your work. Don’t see work as just the thing you do to bring home the paycheck. But find out how your job is helping others and serving others. Find the selfless side of your job and focus on it, and you’ll find more joy in it every single day, and you’ll find more passion to excel in it as well.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Joshua, thank you. This has been a huge treat. I wish you much luck and fun in doing the things that matter.

Joshua Becker
Thank you so much.