174: Mapping Out Your Career and Fulfillment with Dr. Bill Schiemann

Pete Mockaitis
Bill, thanks so much for joining us here on the How to be Awesome at Your Job podcast.

Bill Schiemann
I’m glad to be here, and thank you for having me.

Pete Mockaitis
Absolutely. Well, first, I want to get your personal take on, what makes you feel fulfilled! And I hope you could hear the exclamation point I put in there, per the book.

Bill Schiemann
I like that. I like that exclamation. I think what makes me feel fulfilled is living a sense of purpose, having a purpose in my life and being able to help others grow value, which is what I do in my role. And whether it’s individuals or corporations, I feel like I get up every day and that’s what I’m doing. So, probably my best way to characterize it would be living your dream. And for me, I probably appreciate this the older I get, is, am I being all I can be, maybe is a simple way to say it.

Pete Mockaitis
Very good. So you’ve really unpacked some of these concepts in your work and your book Fulfilled. So I’d love to maybe break that down a little bit, in terms of what are really the primary drivers of fulfillment in a work sense, and also just more broadly in life?

Bill Schiemann
What was really interesting is that a good deal of time I’ve spent in my life working with companies has been looking at, what do you really need from people to be successful? And we discovered three things, which was people who are aligned, people who are capable and people who are engaged at their work. And I then had an incident going back about 10 years with a client of mine, who developed stage 4 pancreatic cancer, and she’s actually the opening story in the book Fulfilled!: Critical Choices: Work, Home, Life that I just completed.

And she ended up surviving, and I was shocked. I mean she was somebody who never gave up. And we’re sitting in a cafe on the upper west side of New York a few years back and she says, sitting over coffee with me, “I want to thank you for saving my life.” And I said, “What? What are you talking about?” And she said, “You worked with my company and you provided help in going through this transformation that we did, and when I got the cancer, I said, ‘Why couldn’t I apply many of these same things to my personal life?’” And she did, and she ended up using tools like planning and balancing out diet, balancing out exercise, balancing out medicine – alternative medicine, traditional medicine – a lot of very interesting mixes. A lot of measurement about pain and being able to measure progress. And at the end, very successful story of somebody who survived.

But it started us on this research, and lo and behold, after interviewing hundreds of people, these same three factors came up of alignment, capabilities and engagement in a slightly different way. So, people who are feeling that the job and the work is aligned with their values and with their career or life fulfillment – really important. Feeling that they’re going to work and they’re growing, that they’re developing capabilities, not just for what the company needs or job, but that they’re growing things for their portfolio of skills in their life. And then feeling in some way that they’re leveraging their passion, their engagement, that “I really get excited about stuff that I do with work.” And when those three are there, that’s when you see this great pop that occurs, and we’ve all seen it in organizations when the organization and the employee are just sympatico together.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, that’s excellent. And so then, I’m thinking about the individual employee level, in terms of that being aligned and capable and engaged. I’m imagining this kind of unfolds on two dimensions, perhaps – the first is, “Hey, right here, right now, wherever you are, whatever your role is, there are some things you can do to boost some of that alignment, capability and engagement”. And then there’s also some more macro, zoomed out perspective, in terms of, “Well, where do I really belong, in terms of a role and employers and such?” So, could you share with us a few of the best tips, tools, approaches, insights we can use to boost, first of all, our experience right where we are?

Bill Schiemann
Yeah, I think in terms of where you are currently, you’ve got to decide, “Am I in the right place? Is this something that’s on my life path?” And that could be a fairly permanent thing, that “I’m on a career trajectory, I’m going to law school, I’m on my route to a goal of becoming a judge at some point in my life, or a prominent attorney.” It could also be that “I’m doing something currently that earns money, because that’s what I need to do and it’s on my path to, or a bridge between something else.”

So I have a niece, for example, who took a year off, earned money, knew she wanted to go back to become a physical therapist, but traveled and taught English and paid off some college loans, but saw it as a path or at least a way to gain some experiences before going back to that serious study. So I think there’s a lot of things you can do. I think part of it is, are your values aligned? Are you feeling really comfortable? And if they are not, having conversations with your boss or talking about things we can do in the workplace that makes it more engaging.

Maybe I need more flexibility in my schedule, or, “Gee, I’d really like a chance to innovate and to bring more ideas. Is there a way I can begin doing that?” And it’s interesting – we talk to managers and very often they’re very open to ideas and employees just aren’t approaching them. Obviously we’ve all had managers that aren’t very approachable, but many of them just are busy and they don’t necessarily go out of their way to say, “Do you have a great idea this week?” But boy, when you have a good idea, it’s a great chance to bring it up.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, I like that. So, I think sometimes there’s a fear associated with, “I don’t want want to be that needy complainer and sort of like I am less of a team player”, or whatever, “I’m entitled”, or any number of fearful motivators that prevent folks from asking. And you’re saying in your experience most managers most of the time are happy and would appreciate these things to be brought to their attention.

Bill Schiemann
Yeah. Let me share one secret that I probably learned later in life, but I think in my interviews with all of these hundreds of fulfilled and not fulfilled people and looking at what makes a difference, one of the big ones was finding a mentor. And not just one mentor; often two or three mentors in life. And it was interesting in talking to the managers, many of them were very open, in fact kind of tickled that somebody would ask them to be a mentor for them in life or for their career.

So you could think about a mentor or two on the career side – who do you talk to about job advice or “my next move” or “What I should be doing?” or “How I make my work more engaging?”, and then you could have them in other parts of life – relationships or for hobbies. And it’s funny – I think going to a manger or a supervisor often saying, “Hey, are you willing to mentor me? Are you willing to help me think this through? I really think a lot of you; you’ve got great experience”, most of them will be incredibly flattered and will begin going out of their way to help you or provide ideas or suggest a training or something you could do that will help you take the next step.

Pete Mockaitis
Absolutely, that’s great to hear. And so then, I’m thinking, even before you maybe have that clarity on you want to go on a particular path and you’re going to seek out maybe tweaks in the environment or particular guides and mentors to getting somewhere, could you share some perspective on getting to the bottom of what you’re really all about, or what opportunities would be the optimal fit in the first place?

Bill Schiemann
Yeah, I think one of the things that’s really important is, take some time off. We all get caught up so much in day to day and you end up on sort of a treadmill that we don’t turn off and think about, “Do I want to be on that treadmill, or do I want to be on an elliptical, or should I be out biking?” Or whatever it is, whatever your favorite analogy is. I think that that time out to stop and think about, “What’s a dream for me? If I could be in my ideal world, what would I be doing? Given the skills I have, given the interests, what would really be fun?”

So one of the things we encourage people to do is create a map, draw a picture of several long-term goals that you’d like to have in your life, things that would really bring fulfillment. Maybe it’s a combination of career, or a combination of relationships or family issues or a hobby you might have or something spiritual; and lay those out. And then look at the map between where you are today and how you would get there. What might be what we call “lighthouse goals”?

So, lighthouse goals would be, “These are things I could aim for 2, 3, 4 years out. It’s much more concrete than where I might want to be 10 or 30 years down the road.” And the captain doesn’t aim to hit the lighthouse; the captain uses the lighthouse as a guide to get to the harbor. And lighthouse goals are great to set up as something I need to do in that short-term period. And then what are the activities today that I might do that are best going to help me in that direction?

And Pete, one of the biggest challenges is time. We all have 24 hours a day. The person who invents something differently will have a definite advantage. But the question is how do we allocate it? If you take out sleep and what we call hygiene factors, eating and so on – all the things we do – it’s about a third of your week. And actually in total hours when you add it all up it comes close to half. And if you take work out of that, it’s 40 to 60 hours, the question is what’s remaining in your time? You probably have 24 to 44 or so hours a week, and what you do with that really makes a difference. You’ve got to decide how much time you’re playing a game or how much time you’re taking a course or studying, but that’s a limited amount of time and requires some important choices.

Pete Mockaitis
Absolutely. And so I’d love to hear, as you’re working with folks, what are some choices that have frequently come to light, with regard to, “Oh my goodness, I am under-investing in this and I’m over-investing in that.”

Bill Schiemann
I think when you start to look at the blocks of time, we talk about six areas in people’s lives. So you have this basic hygiene, which by the way should include good health and doing the exercise and nurturing our bodies as part of that. But it’s family time, it’s my career and job, it’s social, it’s spiritual, it’s educational. And when you map out, it’s worth taking a week, a typical week out of your life, and mapping out where the time goes and looking at that balance.

And if it’s becoming too much and you’re not feeling fulfilled from it, then you’ve got to think about how to rebalance that. It may be that you’ve been working on a crazy project at work and you’re starting to feel burnt out with it. You’ve got to find some ways to put the brakes on that and reallocate a little bit of time. Talk to your boss, maybe get a little bit of relief from that and then come back fresh. Or it may be that you’re saying, “Gee, I’m putting in minimal at work, but I really haven’t been getting ahead. I’m not necessarily being considered for a new opportunity I’d really love. Do I have to redouble my effort, put a little bit more into that sector of my life?” So I think it give us a segment of balance, and are we really living the balance we want in that life?

Pete Mockaitis
Alright. And so I’d love to hear what might be some telltale signs that there is out-of-balance situation unfolding? I think you mentioned the burnout story, which is common, and you see a lot of hours at work and feeling less motivated by work and more tired, burnt out. So, what might be some other indicators that, “Ooh, looks like we’re overdoing it or underdoing it on a key dimension”?

Bill Schiemann
Well, listen to others. If you have a significant other in your life who’s telling you, “I never see you”, or you have children who you’re never there for… I had too many stories of the people we interviewed who talked about missing critical years of their kids growing up or not being at a major event. Part of that is the balance of thinking about the long-term here. Sometimes that one report isn’t the be-all and end-all of the world. And there’s other times when it’s really important to say, “Hey, we got a critical thing going on at work and I’m willing to put in the all-nighter or put in the extra hours that week to make it happen.”

But I think when it happens to become a regular thing… We talked to people who commute Chicago, New York, Los Angeles for two hours each way each day, and all of a sudden they change jobs or they have an early retirement and they somehow get these four hours back in their life and they’re shocked, like, “What happened?”

So I think we need to take those timeouts when our body is feeling fatigued, when we’re feeling just mentally down, we’re not feeling excited to go in on Monday morning to say, “What’s going on?” and really have an open and honest conversation with yourself about those symptoms. Not being able to exercise, not being able to work out, and feeling not healthy, feeling sluggish, saying, “I don’t have time to do it.” And then you see a friend, they have a heart attack at 38 or 40 and say, “Gee, maybe that balance is really good for me, if not physically, also mentally.”

Pete Mockaitis
Yes, absolutely. And so I’d love to get your take then, you’ve got some perspectives when it comes to this map by doing a little bit of measuring out progress and adjusting to bumps real time as they unfold. How does that work out tactically?

Bill Schiemann
I think laying out the map allows you to list your activities today and begin to say, “How much time should I be devoting to them?” So let’s say I’m going to school part-time or I’m getting an MBA at night or an engineering degree. Am I putting in the right amount of time for that? And if I’m dragging out something over 15 years because I’m not putting enough time in; I could be taking two courses instead of one or not taking that much time off between. “I really like to get this job, I really like to be able to get in this field”, then you’ve got to be willing to put the time in for that and balance it and give up time on other things, and that might mean…

For me in college it was giving up playing cards more, it was giving up my time with my band. And I had fun and I could rebalance, but I had too much time going into some things that really weren’t moving my goals ahead in life. So I think it’s having the goals, mapping them back to what your activities are today, and then thinking about that balance and knowing that today’s balance might not be the same as where I need to be 3 years from now, and be willing to continuously rebalance. It’s good every 6 months or a year to pull out a sheet of paper and lay out that balance again and say, “Am I really happy with that?”

Pete Mockaitis
And I’d also like to get your take when it comes to establishing these goals. I think some folks find that they are in an unfortunate position of having wanted something for a very long time, then getting there and realizing, “Oh, this isn’t really great at all. Oops!” So, any perhaps preemptive warnings you might offer for setting up wise goals and light posts in the first place, to not befall that fate?

Bill Schiemann
Yeah, a lot of people start out with Especially early on you’re in school and certain professions sound glamorous or interesting or, “I’m going to do this ’cause it pays a lot of money”, and you get into it or you begin to get into it… I knew people going to law school thinking how cool it was going to be being a lawyer, or med school. And they’d get in there and they’d hate it – they’d hate the classes or they’d hate certain aspects. And there’s a point where you’ve got to say, “Even though maybe my parents wanted me to do this or it sounded really interesting on paper, I don’t like litigation” or, “I don’t like the level of study or reading that I do with law classes”, and do something else.

So I think that happens, but it happens along the way in life too. People said, “Yeah, I’d like to be a manager. They sound good, there’s going to be a promotion, maybe I’ll make more money”, but there’s people who really just don’t like managing and guiding other people or providing feedback and doing some of those skills that are not necessarily fit for everyone.

So I think you’ve got to look back at those and experiment. I love experimentation; I think it’s one of the things that in our interviews with people they said they didn’t do enough. These were interviews with people over 40, over 50, who kind of looked back on their life and said, “I didn’t experiment enough. I should have taken some chances, taken some risks.” Even when they failed, “I learned a lot, I grew from it, and then I turned the corner and I did something else.” “And most of the risks that I took”, they would tell me, “the bottom I would fall is not that far.” And so, taking those chances – I would encourage people to do that. Learn, but then be willing to take a turn in the road if it’s not working out for you or you’re not happy with it.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And Bill, tell me – is there anything else you want to make sure to mention before we talk about some your favorite things?

Bill Schiemann
I think values are really important. I think ending up in an organization and working some place and with a boss or peers who have values you respect and values you can share – I think that’s really important. I think a lot of people come back later and say, “I was unhappy for a long time, I didn’t like the ethics or I didn’t like the style of the organization, I didn’t like some of the way they put priorities on things.” You’ve got to think about that business. If you’re in a service-oriented business and you’re not a big person on serving, that’s probably not the place for you and you’re going to feel like a fish out of water in that environment. So I put a big premium on values.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, thank you. Well now, could you share with us a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Bill Schiemann
Yeah, I like one of the quotes by Pablo Picasso, the great painter. He says, “Every now and then, one paints a picture that seems to have opened the door and serves as a stepping stone to other things.” And I like it because it’s the door of possibilities, and try to paint some different pictures in your life. And some of those pictures you all of a sudden really fall in love with. Unless you paint them you’ll never know that.

Pete Mockaitis
Alright, thank you. And how about a favorite study or experiment or a bit of research?
Bill Schiemann
I’m very enamored with the work around fulfillment and around engaging people, and I think some of the early work, and maybe it’s a combination of the work plus the book that resulted from it, is Stephen Covey’s work on 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. I think that has a lot of endearing qualities. He’s borrowed on some things that other people have come up with, but I think it carries a lot of life lessons to it.

Pete Mockaitis
Sure thing. And how about a favorite tool, something that you use and it helps you flourish at work?

Bill Schiemann
Sure. And by the way, just before we leave book, I’d say one of the books that certainly shaped me was Atlas Shrugged. I don’t like a lot of Ayn Rand’s other material, but that one I guess motivated me to think about value, which is one of my big nuggets, I guess in life, is growing value. And just about anything by Margaret Atwood, because I think it opens up the human drama that is in everyone in different ways, but I think it brings out that human drama.

Tools, for me it’s my hobbies – I’m a gardener, and one of my favorite gardening tools is my spade, because I spend time with the Earth and I like to grow things, and so that’s my favorite. In terms of my business tool or tool in my career, it’s probably been the mapping that I talked about. It’s using that map to constantly keep looking at where True North is for me.

Pete Mockaitis
Thank you. And how about a habit, a personal practice?

Bill Schiemann
Personal practice is probably my exercise. I exercise; I try to do 5 days a week and I do some stretching and other things every day. But I think the exercise. And I’m not one of these people to do extremes; I never was a marathon runner but I ran for over 30 years until I had trouble with my ankle. But it was getting out 30-45 minutes a day, and I think it was not only physically good but it was just good for mental and reducing stress.

Pete Mockaitis
Alright. And would you say there’s a particular nugget or a piece that you share, a Bill original, that really makes people nod their heads and take notes?

Bill Schiemann
To me, it’s my mantra, is probably “Grow value”. And I think as the world’s tightened up and in my speeches and programs I do, I talk a lot about the fact that the world’s not going to get any slower and that competition is not going to be any less. Today we’re competing with everyone, and our companies are… You have to have a differentiator, you have to be good at something, and whatever team you’re on has to win. But at the end of the day, the questions people will ask for you personally, “Are you growing value? Do you have new skills? Are you keeping up with changes that are out there?” And if you’re not doing that, then you’re not growing. I’ve seen too many people at work get left behind; I’ve seen too many people in relationships get left behind with a partner or someone who says, “I’ve moved on”, and the other partner just didn’t continue to grow. So I think growing value and asking yourself that every day is really important.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And Bill, if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Bill Schiemann
They can get a hold of my website, which has the books on it, which is wschiemann.com. And also we have a Facebook page, where you can share your stories, post your stories. And it’s at fulfilled.criticalchoices. And we try to keep new articles and information there on a regular basis.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And Bill, do you have a final challenge or a call to action that you’d issue to folks seeking to be awesome at their jobs?

Bill Schiemann
Yeah. I think it’s, “Go make a difference.” Many people talk about it and say, “I want to make a difference.” The question is, ask yourself every day are you making a difference. And one thing I learned, love that I heard someone tell me years ago is, every day try to have one adventure. Might be a small adventure, but try to have one adventure every day. Think of something going on that you’re learning or something that’s interesting, kind of reach out and make that adventure occur every day.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, beautiful. Well Bill, thanks so much for taking this time, and I wish you lots of luck and enjoyment and fulfillment in all the things you’re up to!

Bill Schiemann
Thank you Pete. Thanks for having me.