144: Optimal Rejuvenation with Rachael O’Meara

Pete Mockaitis
Rachael, thanks so much for joining us here on the How to be Awesome at Your Job podcast.

Rachael O’Meara
Hi, Pete. It’s great to be here.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, I’m excited to dig deep into the pausing concept. But you’ve got a couple of pauses in your own life that you’ve experienced. Could you share with us a tale of a good pause or adventure along your career journey?

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. First, I call a pause any intentional shift in behavior. So that said, there’s lots of ways that you can do that, and some of the more fun ways are to go out and have an adventure, an epic journey of sorts, if you are able to. Not always the case. But one of the first ways that I paused was right after college, I really didn’t know what I wanted to do yet. I had a bachelor’s in geography from University at Albany in New York. I was like, “Where am I going to go?”
And really what resonated with me, I wanted to go to France and I just really had a desire to see it. I’d never gotten to France and I’d been studying the language. So I made a plan. I worked my summer at a pizzeria when I was in Albany at Crossgates Mall and saved up my hard-earned cash. And I got a working permit, a carte de sejour for six months, and I learned about what I could do there and bought a one-way ticket and headed over to France.
So I was there for nine months and I worked in the French Alps, in the ski resort called Val d’lsere, which was a quite adventurous time, I think, for me, and really wasn’t sure what I was getting into. I took a two-month camping car trip around the Mediterranean, and then I came back and I was like, “Now I’ve got to go do something else. I’m out of money.”

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, boy.

Rachael O’Meara
So that was my first pause.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah. Well, good. You’re walking the talk. And it sounds like a hoot. I’m sure there are interesting tales from the folks on the slopes.

Rachael O’Meara
Yes. I got fired at least once from my job.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, what did you do?

Rachael O’Meara
So it was a tale of perseverance. I was working at a bar, a chalet for French cocktails. And it was a piano bar. And as you know, the French take their restauranteering very seriously. And I just could not learn the cocktail names fast enough or speak French well enough or probably dress well enough, so they basically canned me and I negotiated to do some dishes for them. And then I ended up getting another job working as a chalet girl, cleaning up those chalets there, and doing some au pair nanny type work.
I definitely remember being challenged a lot in that situation.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, I hear you. And I love the candor and sort of the realness, the rawness that you share your own experiences, whether they may be flattering or not so flattering. You even share a little bit about what you’ve called your dismal performance at Google for a time. What’s the story there?

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. So in the book “Pause,” I have this story sort of set up in the first chapter that I really wasn’t doing great. As you say, my dismal performance. And I was getting reminded left and right, in all sorts of ways. And one of the more telling ways was that my manager just was really feeling like a broken record and mentioning that I wasn’t up to par. And no matter what I tried, no matter what I did, because it wasn’t about effort, I felt like every day I was like, “Okay, I’m going to put in all my effort and things are going to be different.” And for whatever reason, I wasn’t succeeding.
So I was basically on this fast track to burn out, and pretty much did. And then my mental space was not a healthy one, where I really wasn’t thinking, “Oh, that’s okay. I’ll try again tomorrow,” or “Maybe I can change it.” I felt like I was a failure and my mental chatter, the monkey mind, as I call it and many people call it, was really about… I would have these talks with myself, like “Rachael, what’s wrong with you?”
I mean, I talk about this in the book, but there was probably a lot of other things going on, but I wasn’t even aware of them because I was so preoccupied and focused on “I’ve got do great. I’ve got to do well. I have to make this work today,” and “Maybe this will be different.”
And I really wasn’t focused on being present, being like “Okay, what’s the reality here? What’s my objective?” being in this place that could be more calm and centered so that I could perform and give it my best because even though I thought I was giving it my best, I don’t think I was. And I feel like I was all distorted. My brain wasn’t really clear, and I was mucked around with all of this negative chatter that wasn’t serving me and only creating this downward spiral which led to burnout in that case.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah. So you’re putting in a lot of efforts, but your feedback was saying, “Well, hey, your effort is on the wrong things,” or you’re just coming across poorly. How did that show up in terms of reviews and feedback delivered to you?

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. So I think what it was… I mean, looking back, this was five years ago now for me, but it really was the creation of this time in my life, taking this intentional shift in behavior to really look at my life and say “What’s going on?” because what I thought was working… And I had been successful, right? I got to Google. I’d been doing really well. I was this national champion rower outside of the work world. And for whatever reason, things weren’t going smoothly anymore.
So for me, I had informal conversations with my manager. And I think really what it was, in reality, was I think she held a great bar, a high bar. And for whatever reason, I was aiming to get there, but I couldn’t. I don’t know if it was just my mental blocks at the time or not being open to her feedback. I think a little bit of it was in the denial, maybe like “What is she talking about? I’m okay. I clearly can communicate.”
At one point, I think I had a written-up performance plan where it was just a regular document, but it was like written out very clearly. “Here’s the things that need to happen.” And there were pretty broad stroke kind of things, like executive presence and managing up or communicating effectively to reports. I had a team of people. So I think a lot of this is things we probably can all relate to. And I just saw those things on paper and probably panicked. I don’t remember exactly, but I think it was just like, “Oh, no, I’m a failure. This isn’t working, and I have to change.”
So I don’t think I really was present. And when I say present, meaning like I don’t think I really consciously knew what I was doing because I was so caught up in my thoughts that I couldn’t and didn’t focus on the actual actions at hand, and it made the thought that I was doing okay. And maybe I was, but I think my external voice and where I really was at the time in that team was one where it was questionable. And I think it was my own questioning, my own self-doubt, and my own perception that “This isn’t going great. Now what? Oh, God, the shit is hitting the fan.” Sorry if I’m swearing there.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s fine.

Rachael O’Meara
So that was where I was. And so, for me, it was about a couple of things where I was in this mental negative space which wasn’t helping me. And I really didn’t know what else to do, so I was just going and going and putting my best effort through and muscling through stuff, and yet that was probably the worst thing to do.
And there’s nothing wrong with having effort and going for it. That’s not what I’m saying. But what if I had actually taken a step back, even a weekend? And this is actually what happened. I assessed my past and basically was told, “Hey, Rachael, this may not be the best fit for you.” And I was a customer support manager. So it was kind of this crux pivotal moment, and I did end up asking around my friends for second opinions because I felt like I was so clouded.
And I think a lot of us have probably been there at one point or another that someone suggested, “Hey, well, don’t they have a leave of absence program there?” And so I ended up taking a long three-month unpaid break, and I was very fortunate to have that as an option for me. There’s actually only 14% of global companies that offer unpaid or paid leave, according to the Society of Human Resources Management.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, thank you.

Rachael O’Meara
So super blessed and fortunate to have that happen. And so what ended up happening was I took the weekend to research that and come up with a case that I wanted to state to position myself and say “Hey, I think we could have a win-win here if I took this break and then actually find someone who is a better fit for this role.”

Pete Mockaitis
Very good. Well, thanks for sharing that tale. And so that was part of the inspiration, I take it, behind your book, “Pause.” What’s sort of the overall premise of this work?

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. So again, a pause is any intentional shift in behavior. And so that can mean a whole bunch of stuff, right? And the idea is that instead of thinking that you need to charge forward and do the things right away or go on to the next action, what if you took a step back or literally paused to create some space around you?
And it might mean an intentional shift in behavior like taking a class or even a weekend, some type of shift, and ultimately, have some new insights or ways of being that actually wouldn’t have happened otherwise. And I think the big picture, the big message that I have is that if we do that and check in more often, we can lead more meaningful and satisfied lives, whether it’s in your career or your personal life. And instead of going on autopilot (“Go, go, go”), these little tweaks can make a huge difference.
And that’s really the message of “Pause.” And I think anyone can pause. We can all pause. And it’s about finding what works for you. And it might be different for all of us. What works for me might not be what works for you, Pete, and that kind of thing.

Pete Mockaitis
You’re into the neuroscience and the studies and the research. Any kind of compelling experiments or data that kind of prove that out all the more in terms of this little bit makes a big difference?

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So there’s a lot of… I have a lot of research in “Pause,” and a lot of it is based on my own work at the Wright Graduate University in Chicago with Bob and Judith Wright, where I became certified in coaching and I do a lot of personal emotional intelligence work there. So one of the ways to pause, and I talk about this on the book, is journaling. So this isn’t a really big newsflash, hopefully, for a lot of us. But even the act of journaling, and I call this a power tool, like using journaling as a power tool. There’s actually research done that when you journal for as little as two minutes in two consecutive days on an emotionally significant event that you have in your life, it improves your mood and wellbeing.

Pete Mockaitis
And that emotional event is a happy one or a sad one?

Rachael O’Meara
Any emotional event. And the whole idea is that… This is from a study done in 2009. So just to cite that, it’s the VSL Science, the two-minute plan for feeling better. And we actually have this in our “Search Inside Yourself” training that we do at Google, which is an independent nonprofit on mindfulness and self-awareness.
But the idea is that when you write, there’s different parts of your brain that get activated, as opposed to speaking. So when you’re writing something down, there’s a section of your brain that’s called the RAS, the reticular activating system, and that turns signals on basically to pay attention when you write. It’s kind of cool. So when you think about how often we don’t write now, we’re typing on our computers. That’s not really the same.

Pete Mockaitis
I see. Typing is not the same as having a pen or pencil on paper, making it happen.

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. So any emotional behavior, if you write it down two minutes a day for two consecutive days. Imagine if you do it every day. It could just be something as simple as what you were grateful for because that conjures up feelings and emotions of usually joy in some way. But it could be maybe there’s a fear that you have or anxiety. Just expressing that goes a long way.
So that’s one way that you can shift how you are, and that’s a pause. In my opinion, you’re intentionally shifting your behavior by stopping your life to journal. And maybe you’ve got that practice, which is great. Maybe you don’t. But I invite anyone who’s listening to try it and maybe do it in the morning when you get up, for two minutes.
Tim Ferriss, who is someone I listen to a lot, he’s got his five-minute journal practice in the morning. And I actually started doing that, and I do a practice where I have five things I’m grateful for every morning. I try to do that. I’m not perfect, but it does make a difference and it makes me think differently. So that’s one thing.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, that is fantastic. Well, could you share with us, while we’re at it, are there any other kind of quick pauses that pack a big punch?

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. So pausing to me is kind of a way of life, and you can integrate this in the world that you live in. So whatever your job is, whatever you’re doing day to day, there’s a lot of ways you can build in what I call daily pauses. And again, this is not anything like a long break or an extended leave, but it’s ways that you interact with your day to day life that can change how you are and bring potentially more ways to be present or self-aware or just be happier, right?
So one of them is, I call it, the five senses pause. So we’ve all got five senses: seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, smelling, right? So you could go ahead and, even right now, look around the room. Look around where you are right now. And when you start to notice what the colors are, or what the textures are, or what it smells like, you’re activating different parts of your brain for that, and it’s actually allowing you to be very present and dropping into your body to sense things and get out of our heads a little bit. So that’s one really simple thing.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s great. So you just sort of tick through each of those five senses?

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. You can have fun with it. And this is all an experiment, right? And it’s about what works for you. So you could start and just do seeing. I’m only going to look at sight, so I’m going to look at my orange walls around me, or maybe it’s the environment outside if I’m taking a walk or driving a car. That’s maybe one minute or two minutes. And then you can build up from that, and it goes a long way.
And then I think one way that’s really super simple, we always overlook it, and I just didn’t even think of it when you asked me that, was the one breath pause. It’s as easy as sitting up straight and uncrossing your legs and arms, and maybe put a hand over your diaphragm or your belly, and just inhale (I’m doing it right now) and exhaling through your mouth, because we all know how to breathe. But even right there, what shifted? What’s different? So that’s another way that you can do a simple daily pause.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s great. And so that’s in through the nose, out through the mouth?

Rachael O’Meara
In through the nose, out through the mouth. And again, it’s about kind of experimenting to see what works for you. It might be three breaths in a row. You can count your breath, 1 to 10. If you build up to 10 breaths, start over. And these are just great little tools. Think of them like your toolbox that you can implement a pause in your life, in your day, and throughout your day. And the idea is that we don’t do this to get more successful at pausing. That’s not the idea, right?

Pete Mockaitis
For a pauser.

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah, although I’m a pause advocate, a pause instigator. We do this so that we can be a little less stressed out. And some people call it mindfulness, meditation, which is attention training. It’s part of this. But overall, I think pausing can be for what works for you. So it might be a conversation that you have that’s really meaningful, where you didn’t go there before with someone and deepen a relationship. To me, that’s a pause. That’s an intentional shift in behavior.
It could be a class that you take and you wanted to always build a passion for or add more to what you already want to do. So that’s a big one. And then my favorite, which is so important, is the digital device pause. Bet you can guess what that is. Essentially, when you interact with your phone or a laptop or even your Netflix at home, what can you change to serve you more?
And there’s so many ways that that can help, but one of them is not to charge your phone in your bedroom, or not use your phone after 10:00 p.m., or when you’re with family and friends, don’t check that phone. Sit on it or turn it off because that’s a little intentional shift, but it can really go a long way for pausing and allow you to change your behavior based on what you do with that. Just a couple.

Pete Mockaitis
This is so good. Thank you. And so I’d like to get your take also then on… So you talk about those mindfulness exercises. That’s probably a big part of your answer to this question. But I think that sometimes, sure enough, I separate myself from the computer, the phone and all that, and yet my brain, it’s as though it’s still there. What are some pro tips for kind of getting the brain with the program in terms of really embracing that pause?

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. So we’re creatures of habit, right? I think that’s an important thing to keep in mind. So it’s about building the skill. Just like you’d go to the gym, our brains are always on essentially, unless we’re sleeping and we’re in deep REM sleep. So the idea is that we actually have to consciously change and choose to be more aware if we want to be.
So as much as I say I want to disconnect, and this is one of my five signs of a pause is when someone has a technology intervention. So that’s a great one. I think we can all kind of relate to that, especially in this day and age, right? So if someone is telling me that I use my phone too much, I know this and I can say, “Okay, I’m not going to use my phone,” but then I’m still there and I’m checking email and I want to. So it’s all about catching yourself in the moment, which is a choice, and then shifting your behavior from that.
And I have a couple of techniques in the book. I actually call it mental flossing, which to me is about… Imagine, just like dental floss, you’re there in the grooves of your teeth, getting the gunk out. And with your brain and the way that we think, it’s also like a figurative metaphor for using mental flossing to be more self-aware of what the “gunk” is in your brain so that you can actually have a better way to think about things, something that serves you more.
And there’s all kinds of ways that we maybe tie ourselves up in beliefs or negative thoughts that don’t really serve us anymore. “Ugh, forget it. I don’t have time. What is she talking about? Pausing? I don’t have time for that. Why would I do that?” So there’s ways in which I catch myself and say “Hey, okay, I’m tuning in.”
I call it the TASER technique, kind of like a Taser gun and you zap stuff. So just think of it like you can zap yourself back into consciousness when you say… T is for tune in. So I’m going to tune in and say, “Hold on a second. I just thought of something that doesn’t serve me. I don’t have enough time. I don’t have enough.” Okay. Acknowledge that is the A. So acknowledge is “Okay, I now know that I think that.” It’s really all it is. There’s no judgment and it’s just data. And then there might be a feeling associated with that, so you can say, “Oh, I’m feeling kind of frustrated that that happened.” Okay, it’s just the data.
And then the S is shifting that belief into an updated belief or thought that really does serve you. And again, these are all choices that we have. So instead of saying “I don’t have enough time,” what if I had a growth mindset, Carol Dweck’s words for growth mindset? What if I had an updated belief and I choose that I do have enough time? It’s really that simple, but it’s the subtle little shifts that we can take.
So then E is expressing that new belief or thought. So it might be out loud, if you can. Maybe you’re in the car driving, or maybe you’re journaling. You can write it down. And it might feel weird or awkward to say it, but that’s actually ideal because then your brain, again, is activated in new ways. And again, it’s not about judgment. It’s just simply expressing it, so “Yeah. Oh, I have enough time.” And you may not even believe it.
There’s a great section in the book. I call it “Act as if.” So William James, who is one of our famous philosophers, thought leaders, from an earlier time, he had this idea and notion that if we act as if and believe it, and you may have heard this as well, fake it ‘til you make it kind of thing, our brains don’t know the difference. Our bodies’ brains are not clear on “That’s not true.” So you can almost trick yourself into it, even if you don’t buy it right now. And the idea is, over time, you actually do buy that and become that.
And then R is for repeating that process. And it’s, again, a skill that you build. So the more you can do this and build that skill, every time you are aware, every time you catch that and practice, that’s building that skill and that is how you do get, over time, change.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, that’s so fun. Thank you.

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah.

Pete Mockaitis
So I’m also curious to hear about some of these longer term pauses, like multi-day pauses. Have you discovered in your own experience or working with folks or the research that there’s something like diminishing returns? Like a three-day weekend is super rejuvenating, but stretch it to four and you’re not really 30% or 40% more rejuvenated for taking an extra day. Does that data exist, or am I overcomplicating things?

Rachael O’Meara
I like the way you’re thinking about that. Well, here’s the thing. To my knowledge, that data doesn’t exist, that I know of. Maybe one day I’ll have that data and I could speak to it a little more. But again, it’s all about what works for you. And I think that that’s the bottom line for helping in creating effective pauses. So life is an experiment, right? And ideally, we live it that way. So I invite anyone to try out and see what works.
So maybe you do try three days, and that seems very good as a timeframe. And three days is like you can decompress from whatever you were doing, have a really good slot of time where you’re intentionally shifting your behavior, whatever that is, and then you go back to whatever you’re doing. Sometimes, it might be not even necessary to take that time off, but you might do an hour a day where you’re going outside for a walk or not eating lunch at your desk.
Ideally, if it’s a long epic type of journey or something where you do get that time off, which could be used like a vacation, a week, and if you intentionally shifted that, that can work. So I think it’s all about what works for the individual, and that’s about choice as well, and it could be different for everybody. And I invite all of us to see what works.
And it’s just a personal preference thing, I think. And it’s important to test that out. I have never heard of anyone, to your point, saying too much time is bad. But that’s just me. I’m not the end-all, be-all source for that.
But I think personally, when you can detach and actually take yourself out of a situation, especially if you are facing a burnout mode… And I’m not saying quit your job. That’s not the point at all. It might just be “I need a day. I need Sunday, where I’m going to go walk in the woods or I’m going to journal or I’m going to go to the library.” It doesn’t have to cost any money. And again, it’s not about the quantity of time. It’s the quality.
And maybe you take the attention to really become clear with what your plan will be going forward. And it might be to create more space ongoing on a daily basis. That might allow you to have more downtime with your family, as an example, or with your partner, your pet, whatever it is. But again, it’s about you. And I invite anyone who’s feeling that way to experiment a little bit, like I said. But also know that there is no wrong or right answer.
But that detaching is important, whether it’s for a couple of minutes, like you’re following your breath, or if it’s a really long time, because that’s when you can really tune into yourself. And I think that’s where that clarity can come in. And I call it deep listening in the book, where you’re more aligned with what matters to you because you’re there. You’re being with yourself. And that is scary. It’s not like an easy thing. And that’s why I think a lot of us jump in and do a bunch of stuff, including me. I’m very guilty of that.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, thank you. That’s a nice rundown. Much appreciated. Is there anything else you want to make sure that you put out there before we shift gears and hear about some of your favorite things?

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. Well, one thing I would say is… This is another pause story in the book. My friend Joe who got laid off a while ago. So there’s sometimes unintended pauses where we might face an adversity. So there might be a major challenge in your life, a health challenge or something that’s not going well, or you get laid off. And so I would say those are opportunities to also pause. It’s not about going and getting back on track as fast as possible. These are life’s little gifts, I’ll call them, where maybe at the time they don’t seem like that by any means.
And from challenge comes opportunity. I feel like that’s a huge theme of those times. And when I was looking for my next job, from challenge comes opportunity. Those are opportunities where you can really assess where you are in that moment, in that point in time, and pause and intentionally shift so that you can make sure you are learning and leading a life that’s really satisfying for you and not just checking boxes off or doing something because someone else wanted you to do it without checking in.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, that’s great. Thank you.

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah.

Pete Mockaitis
So now, could you share with us a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Rachael O’Meara
Well, actually, the one that I just shared. I love “From challenge comes opportunity.”
And I think we forget that. I don’t know who said it first, but if we can remember that and know that this is a choice. I can choose to let this defeat me, or I can choose to be a victim, or I can choose to just say “I’ll never get that. I’m a failure,” or I can choose to have the opportunity and I can choose to see what could come of this, or have another interview, or do something different.
And that is, I think, so key in our world, especially as thriving people awesome at our jobs and want to be, because that’s where we can really see ourselves and tune in to what we want to do and go for it no matter what challenges we have.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, thank you. And how about a favorite study or experiment or bit of research?

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. So there’s a lot of studies I’m thinking of right now, but the one that’s top of mind is the Stanford prison study with Dr. Zimbardo.
And it’s not in “Pause,” but I think it really resonates in terms of how we act in big groups and how the world does conform. And the whole point of the study, and this was done years ago, decades ago, where students got together and enacted a prison type situation. And there were students that were prisoners, and there were students that were guards.
And overall, they had to stop the study because things got out of hand because the groupthink was so… Like just malice was happening and there was a lot of trouble. People weren’t doing well, and they called it off because it was literally a mockup, but yet because people were in these modes and wearing uniforms and had numbers, and there were guards with superiority, things got out of hand.
So I think it’s just a really easy reminder in the world that it’s so easy to go along with what other people think, and it’s so easy to do what the crowd does. The stat that I do have in the book is that 70% of the world conforms. We live in conformity. So it takes courage, it takes bravery, to choose different than that. And I think that’s part of what that study showed us because it’s so easy to conform.
And part of pausing, because it’s not the norm, it’s not what we do normally or on autopilot, it requires conscious choice. And to me, it’s a reminder that I can choose not to conform if I really want to honor my truth or what’s going on with me authentically.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, thank you. And how about a favorite book?

Rachael O’Meara
Favorite book. Let’s see. Well, I have a few. My favorite book is “A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius” by Dave Eggers, which is a fiction book. And I love what he writes. That’s not my norm. I usually like reading nonfiction and self-help. Oh, what a surprise. It’s the stuff that I’m writing. But I finished Angela Duckworth’s “Grit” recently, and that was a really fascinating book as well about the perseverance and what it takes for grit. And I think that was a great book.

Pete Mockaitis
Thank you. And how about a favorite tool, whether that’s a product or service or app, something that helps you be awesome at your job?

Rachael O’Meara
Gosh. I’m not sure what I would say is like my favorite tool. I like commuting by bike or by walking, so my tool would be like public transportation. I use those city bikes in San Francisco, the Bay Area bikes, which are pretty cool. And I try not to drive as much as possible. But when I am driving, I think podcasts like this one. And like I mentioned, I listen to a few and TED Talks. I’m always trying to learn about something. I’m a huge learner.
And there’s no end to our capacity, which is what I’m learning along this journey. So anything that improves my learning, like a podcast while I’m biking or in transit, I think is really helpful for me and I enjoy using those.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Good. Thank you. And how about a favorite habit, a personal practice of yours that really makes a world of difference?

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. So I think this won’t be a surprise, but I’ve learned how to meditate. And I started after my three-month break in 2011, which is this whole story of pause. Well, I learned it right after I went to Burning Man for the first time. So that was in 2011, and then I was at a meditation camp and a good friend of mine gave me his book which is called “How to Meditate in a New York Minute.” So I’ve been trying it since then, and it’s a work in progress, as I am. I know now. And it’s really helped me be calm. Even that one breath is what I could consider meditation. And now it’s a way of life, and I think it really helps me be more in my own body and be more self-aware.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, good. Now, tell me, is there a particular nugget, something that you share when you’re writing or speaking that seems to really particularly resonate with folks, get them nodding heads and saying “Yes, so good.”?

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. So I think a lot of that stems from my work in Chicago with the Wright Foundation. We study emotional and social intelligence. And one of the key tools that I’ve used which I share in the book and with anyone who I’m with are the five primary emotions. And because we’re all human, I think this really resonates and relates to all of us. So did you know there are five primary emotions, Pete?

Pete Mockaitis
I’m thinking about the movie “Inside Out” right now. Is it like those?

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. So that’s very similar. So there’s five primary emotions that we use. And of course, there’s millions of other secondary and tertiary emotions, but you probably have four of the five from “Inside Out.” So can you name any of those?

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Let’s see. Happiness, sadness.

Rachael O’Meara
Joy. Yes, we’ll it joy. Sadness.

Pete Mockaitis
Anger.

Rachael O’Meara
Anger. Yep.

Pete Mockaitis
Disgust or contempt.

Rachael O’Meara
Mm-hm. Yep. So…

Pete Mockaitis
Maybe there’s… Let’s have some fun. I’m going to guess. Fear?

Rachael O’Meara
You got it.

Pete Mockaitis
Yes!

Rachael O’Meara
So disgust isn’t one of the ones that we really practice. We use hurt.

Pete Mockaitis
All right.

Rachael O’Meara
But it’s like the five that we use. So you’ve got most of them. And fear is a big one, and joy is a big one, sadness, anger, hurt. And all of us can relate to those. So if I’m asking myself anytime, “What am I feeling right now?” Like right now with you, what am I feeling right now? Fear, hurt, joy, sadness, or anger. I could tell you I’m feeling some fear because I don’t know the questions you’re asking me.

Pete Mockaitis
I’m intimidating.

Rachael O’Meara
And yes, you’re so intimidating, but I’m also just not sure of the outcome. I don’t know what this will bring. So like being just fully okay in that fear. But it’s minor. It’s not like terrifying. There’s degrees of it. And I’m feeling joy because I’m sharing my message and I’m sharing with you this teaching that I think is such an important one in emotional intelligence. So there you go. I’ve got those two right now. And I’d say it’s probably more on the joy side, but that’s me tuning in. And you can do that right now. What are you feeling? What’s your primary emotion right now?

Pete Mockaitis
It’s so funny. I think what I experience most often, and I don’t know how they’re expressed in primary emotions, are excitement, frustration, and tired.

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. I think that those… I mean, all emotions are valid, first of all. And it’s important to notice that. And it’s not like we’ve got bad emotions. They’re all there to serve us. And I would say excitement is joy. That’s excitement, but it’s a tinge of… Maybe there’s that exhilaration feeling which is, I’d say, mostly joy. Frustration is a form of anger.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Yeah.

Rachael O’Meara
There’s some other emotions in there. But that’s an easy… And I used to say that, like “Oh, I’m frustrated.” But it’s anger. It’s like the bottom line. We just don’t say that in a business setting actually, but frustration is there. And then tired is an interesting one because that’s a state. It’s like the state of being tired or the state of being sleepy. But it could be a bunch of different things, depending on where you are.
But there might be some ways that you want to tune out maybe sadness there. But it’s hard to say because it’s like nebulous there. But in general, exhaustion or tiredness can be more a sign of just not being fully present in the emotions, but also maybe there’s also some sadness, too. Maybe you’re not out there doing what you want to do, and you’re tired so much or exhausted. And I’m sure that’s the case with people like new parents and stuff like that. It’s not anything other than that really. But it means you need more sleep, I guess. I don’t know.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, so now I’m intrigued. You said the word “state,” and we’re talking of William James, and we’re talking emotions. So now I’m thinking about Tony Robbins who always talks about “Put yourself in a peak state. Make your move. Yes, yes, yes.” What’s your take on that world of kind of conscientiously choosing to be in a given state? Like “I’m going to get fired up right now by jumping up and down, pounding my chest, screaming ‘Yes!’ because that would be helpful right now to feel fired up.” What’s your take on that?

Rachael O’Meara
Wow. Cool. I’m loving that you went there. So again, it comes back to choice. And this is what Tony does. Tony is like “Let’s get fired up.” We can choose to up regulate, we’ll call it. And again, this is the work from the Wright Foundation. So you can up regulate your emotions. You can down regulate your emotions. You can kind of change them for what serves you. And you can still feel those things, but you can enter those states.
And really, the principle here we’re talking about is aliveness, right? Like how alive can you be in a moment? Maybe I’m jumping up and down and I’m really animated, or maybe I’m kind of like bringing it back in and I’m calming and centering myself. And you can still be very alive there. You can still feel your heart beating inside your chest. It’s just about the choice of where you want to go in that moment.
And we can choose it all the time, but the thing is, here’s the kicker, we have been on autopilot for hundreds of thousands of years as beings in the planet, and now we’re able to really help harness our consciousness, this prefrontal cortex, our frontal lobe, and engage in our thinking brain in ways that we’re just learning about.
And now things are evolving and we’re evolving, so we can know that we have that choice. And we can up regulate with Tony if we choose to, or we can choose to get really calm and quiet if that’s what we really need, or maybe pause or shift our behavior that way.

Pete Mockaitis
So I’m interested. That sounds like a positive take on that. I think the opposite effect could be you’re not honoring your emotion and yourself and the message that that emotion is offering to you. What do you think about that?

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. So that’s a big point, a good one. Honoring your emotions is super, super important. And you can still be in any state and honor your emotions. The idea is that the state is aligned with your emotion. So if you’re feeling blue, if you’re just feeling sad, and you’re not up for jumping around the stage with Tony, maybe you’re in the audience, then authentically, you can honor that and choose not to do that. Again, it’s a choice.
But that’s why it’s so important to tune in. And we have these bodies that we’re given where we sometimes forget about them or we don’t ask ourselves what we are feeling. And then maybe we deny that and say, “Screw the fear. I don’t want to even feel that,” or “I don’t want to be angry. That’s not who I am,” or whatever it is. Our thoughts kind of interrupt us.
And just simply note that. And that’s where you can do the TASER technique, and that’s where you can understand and ask yourself, “What am I feeling right now?” Fear, hurt, joy, sadness, anger. And then not judge it, not explain why, but just simply stating that is honoring your feelings, and then going from there. And that’s the idea. The wild ride we’re on is that every moment can be on that rollercoaster.
It might be something you’re really awesomely excited about, or it might be like “I hate feeling this way.” But you’re still honoring that when you acknowledge it. And that’s the whole idea is that when we honor our feelings and they’re all there to serve us, they can really be our biggest instrument to how we can be in the world because that’s our tune in to know how we are feeling so that we can be present and not just operate on this autopilot mode.

Pete Mockaitis
Right. That’s cool. And so I guess final question. Wow, we really went deep here. Thank you. It’s been fun to play.

Rachael O’Meara
I like it.

Pete Mockaitis
So in your view, having done all this research, are you suggesting that there’s not really much harm or danger in frequently choosing to alter our emotional states? It’s just a choice and you’ve got to be conscious about it and make sure that it’s serving you well, and then it’s all good? Or is there danger in the sense of you might even lose touch with your emotions and what they’re trying to tell you if you keep just overriding them and switching them to something else?

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. So I think the important thing is here, and like I said, I’m not a neuroscientist, so this is just based on my own experience as a human and some of the limited research I’ve done, is that I think if you honor your emotions, you can’t go wrong. But it’s also important to just understand how you feel in any given moment so that you can show up as your authentic self. And when you do that, you are able to honor yourself. You’re affirming who you are because that’s your true feeling.
And it’s not about feeling bad or shame or denial. Those are other states. But feelings are you, and there’s no right or wrong feeling here. People talk about bad feelings, negative feelings. That’s crap. I think feelings are pure and they’re all okay, and you’re okay feeling them. But some of us have been taught in our lives that we’re not okay if we feel a certain way, or that feeling is not okay, and we shouldn’t feel that way.
And I think what’s important in the message is that if you just honor what your feelings are and be with those feelings, you can’t really go wrong. And it’s about expressing them and not denying them. And it’s important. And if there’s a feeling that’s super strong and overwhelming, then it’s important to get help for that or important to reach out because that’s what this is all about. When we express, we can really be more authentic because that’s who we are.
And by express, I mean maybe it’s writing in a journal. Maybe it’s telling someone. Maybe it’s just saying out loud by yourself.
But I think it’s important to start with emotions because that’s the basis of who we all are as people. And relationships and how we feel in the moment is what really makes us feel alive. And isn’t that why we’re all here is to live and fully appreciate and be in our full selves? And whatever way that that can manifest for individuals is going to be different, but I think it’s a start.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, great. Thank you. So tell me, if folks want to learn more and get in touch, where would you point them?

Rachael O’Meara
Yeah. So I have a website and it’s my name, rachaelomeara.com. And “Pause,” the book comes out, and it’s available there. And I also have things like, I call it, the Pausecast, so there’s recordings there with thought leaders who I think have meaningful messages to share. And then I’ve got other things in there from writings and articles and that kind of thing. So I think rachaelomeara.com.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, perfect. Thank you. Well, Rachael, this has been so much fun. I wish you lots of luck and hope “Pause” is a smash success.

Rachael O’Meara
Thank you, Pete. It’s been a pleasure to be on your show. I really appreciate it.