914: Turning Awkwardness Into Your Greatest Asset with Henna Pryor

Pete Mockaitis
Henna, welcome to How to be Awesome at Your Job.

Henna Pryor
Thank you for having me, and it’s the greatest podcast name, I think, I have ever heard.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, well, thank you. That’s what we like to hear. We try. Well, I’m excited to hear about the wisdom you’ve got for us in your book Good Awkward: How to Embrace the Embarrassing and Celebrate the Cringe to Become The Bravest You. But first, we need to hear what is the story with you being a genuine bonafide princess?

Henna Pryor
It’s not so much a story, it’s more of a fun fact. So, my parents are both South Asian. My dad was born in India, my mom was born in Pakistan, and so, technically, I am a 32nd generation Pakistani princess, which just means, bloodline, I am from a royal bloodline. Now, that’s said, Pakistan is no longer a monarchy, so my princess status means bopkiss, absolutely nothing. I get no perks whatsoever.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, do your loved ones treat you like a princess?

Henna Pryor
Most days. Most days. I think I get trolled in even measure but, yeah, I get some good treatment.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Nifty. So, nothing happens then, like if you visit Pakistan or you’re…?

Henna Pryor
No. No red carpet, no elephants. My grandfather, my mom’s father, was treated with a little bit of, let’s call it, extra respect due to his family name but, really, as the generations go on, it’s less and less cool. There’s really no measurable perks. I’m still waiting.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. There’s no certificate, no jewels.

Henna Pryor
No.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay.

Henna Pryor
No. I wish but no.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, now, I know. I appreciate that. That was fun. Well, now tell us a little bit, when it comes to awkwardness, first of all, I just got to hear, since you’re an authority on awkwardness and I’ve just got to go here, first and foremost, I find it very annoying, and maybe you do this, so sorry.

Henna Pryor
That’ll be even more awkward here.

Pete Mockaitis
This hasn’t happened much since I’ve been a grown up as opposed to maybe like high school/college, when someone just proclaims, “Awkward!” It’s like, “Oh, wow.” That just grates on me so much, it’s like, “This is not helpful and now it’s way more awkward because you’ve just proclaimed it as such.” Since you’re an awkwardness expert, what is your hot take on this phenomenon?

Henna Pryor
Yeah. So, it’s funny, I don’t mind when people claim it. I think what you’re describing is when they claim it so loudly and ostentatiously that it draws even a greater magnified lens to whatever the experience was. And so, ironically, the avoidance of awkwardness increases awkwardness. So, I actually teach people it’s okay to name it in the room.

It’s when we make a really big audacious deal out of it, “Awkward!” kind of the way you did it, that it actually almost has the opposite effect, where it adds to the feeling of attention is on this, embarrassment. When we subtly name it, it actually allows us to relax and move on. But I think when we amplify it that way, it can actually make it linger longer than it needs to, and draw an even brighter spotlight to something that maybe people didn’t even notice that much in the first place.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, certainly. Like, “Hey, I’m sorry, this is sort of awkward but your credit card has been declined.” It’s like, “Yeah, yeah, fair enough. All right. Well, let’s try another one,” and that’s that, versus yelling it loud and proud.

Henna Pryor
Shouting. Right, I agree. Yeah, I think the whole point of navigating our awkwardness has to do with the idea that we are in this tension space between who we believe we are and who we think other people see in that moment, “Oh, my gosh, they think I’m someone who has terrible credit, whose card was declined.” I might feel a bit awkward about it, but the whole problem with the emotion of the thing that we tend to wrestle with is what we think other people see in that moment. So, if we declare it loudly, we’re just putting more eyes on that version, it’s kind of counterproductive.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. So, tell us, any particularly surprising or fascinating discoveries you’ve made about us humans and awkwardness as you’ve dived into this research?

Henna Pryor
Yeah, several, and I think, especially as it relates to your topic of expertise here about being awesome at your job and being a high-performer at work, there are some very interesting data that came out in the last year or two about how catering and performing actually decreases our workplace performance. So, I’ll explain what I mean by that.

We’ve had a wave of conversations around “be more authentic at work.” Authenticity is the superpower. Be more authentic at work. And people hear that and they agree with it. You see the nods, they’re like, “Yup, yup, that seems like it would be a good idea,” but then, more often than not, I work with clients who tell me, “Yeah, that would be great. How? I don’t know how to be more authentic at work. Can somebody give me the playbook? I don’t understand why I just can’t show up that way. It doesn’t feel quite that simple.”

And so, what I’ve discovered in some of the research is when people feel awkward, or unsure, or embarrassed, or they’re fearing awkwardness at work, what they tend to do instead is something called catering, which is essentially putting on a bit of a performance to meet other people’s expectations, “I have a new boss, they expect me probably to be like this, or show up like that, so I’m behaving in a way that caters to their expectations. I’m performing to meet what I think they expect of me.”

And while first impressions do matter, I don’t want to diminish that, there’s actually now a significant body of research from Francesca Gino and her team at Harvard that says that catering to meet other people’s expectations not only diminishes our performance at work but, frankly, it’s exhausting. We collapse into bed at the end of a night. We don’t do our best work. We don’t save our energy for the things that we genuinely want to do to make an impact at work.

And so, there’s actually a lot of downsides to that catering behavior instead of coming in stumbles, fumbles, and all.

Pete Mockaitis
Can you give us a few examples of typical workplace catering behavior that has the potential to kill our energy and our performance?

Henna Pryor
Sure. I’ll give you, actually, the study that really found this and then I’ll give you just a run-of-the-mill example at work. So, in Francesca Gino’s Harvard research, they actually were studying a team of inventors, kind of entrepreneurs who were pitching their ideas to investors, they were trying to get funding for their ideas.

And what they actually found was those who catered to meet the investors’ expectations, in other words, told them what they thought the investors wanted to hear, were actually three times less likely to get the funding than those who came in, still prepared, but a little bit more authentic, a bit more passionate, a bit more honest, which was inclusive of stumbles, fumbles, and all. That’s one example.

Another example that I see a lot is when we think about awkward conversations, it’s the whole diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging discussion. Most people still struggle to have those conversations in the workplace. They find it very awkward. They’re afraid of saying the wrong thing. They’re afraid of not getting it right. So, instead, a lot of people will cater, “I think this is what my colleague of color wants me to say. I think this is the right thing to say in this meeting.”

And it actually kind of comes across as a performance versus it is actually much more impactful to say, “Hey, I tried to think thoughtfully about this part of the conversation but I don’t know if I’m going to say the right thing right now. There’s a chance I might get it wrong and it might stumble out of my mouth but I’m going to give it an attempt anyway.” That version actually lands better. So, it’s when we perform, it’s when we try to smooth out the bumps of areas where we do feel a bit uncomfortable that it actually has an inverse impact to what we think.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Understood. Well, so I’d love to hear then, in terms of awkwardness becoming our strength instead of our weakness. How do we begin to think about, reframe, and make that true for us?

Henna Pryor
Sure. So, again, just to put a spotlight on a definition that we’re going to operate from for the context of this conversation, awkwardness is an emotion that we feel when the person we believe ourselves to be, or our true self, is momentarily at odds with the person that they see on display. In other words, the person we are, for a moment in time or maybe several moments, feels different than who they see.

So, I’m jumping on a podcast with you today, Pete, and I butcher your last name, I mispronounce it horribly, and I feel awkward and embarrassed about that for a moment, because the person I believe myself to be, someone who is intentional and prepared when it comes to the pronunciation of names, for that moment, feels at odds with the person who I think you see, someone is not thoughtful about names, someone who is not trying. There’s a gap between those two people.

And so, when we think about our professional lives, every time we’re at an inflection point, a growth point, a transition point, we’re going to invite opportunities for awkwardness, we’re going to invite opportunities for embarrassment. And it’s learning how to get comfortable with those that actually leads us continuing to take the chances that contribute to our growth.

When we can’t lean into them, we tend to avoid them and run away from them, which becomes very problematic when we’re trying to advance our careers and our lives.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. So, with this definition, awkwardness is when there’s a difference between who we believe ourselves to be versus what someone else is perceiving from us in a moment. Now, that’s pretty specific as opposed to generalized discomfort about any number of things, like, I’ll feel awkward when…well, I guess, maybe not your definition of awkward. Like, if I just disagree with somebody, I will experience a sensation of discomfort that I would have previously called awkward, although that’s not exactly in harmony with your definition. Or is it?

Henna Pryor
It is, I think, to a degree. So, maybe let’s peel back the layer one more bit to help unpack that. Awkwardness is also a social emotion, meaning if you read something online by yourself and you didn’t agree with it, you wouldn’t feel awkward about that because no one is there to hear you even if you were to express your disagreement out loud, “That person is an idiot. They don’t know what they’re talking about.” No one is there to hear you so you don’t feel awkward because awkwardness is a social emotion, meaning that others have to exist.

Now, awkwardness also exists as a social emotion when what we think is going to happen isn’t met. So, in our minds, we built some certain expectation of how an interaction is going to go, how a chat is going to go, and our expectation isn’t met. So, in the case of the example that you gave, when you wildly disagree with something that someone said, probably, subconsciously, there was some part of you that expected that conversation to go a bit differently.

So, yeah, there probably are some other uncomfortable feelings and emotions mixed up in that, but part of that may have been a feeling of awkwardness because, suddenly, you are finding yourself feeling a little thrown off balance or a bit unprepared because you didn’t expect the conversation to go that way.

Pete Mockaitis
And it’s also interesting when you experience this, like, I’m just thinking about TV comedies, awkward situations, like The Office. Michael Scott says just some outrageous things and the situation, like you feel uncomfortable watching it but it’s also very engaging, it’s like, “Oh, my gosh. Oh, cringe. What’s going to happen here? And this is hilariously inappropriate, and whoa.” So, there are two, I suppose, I have a different set of expectations as to what would normally unfold in such a scenario.

Henna Pryor
Yeah, I love that you brought that example up because I have a whole section in the book where I talk about this. That’s actually an entire genre of comedy referred to as cringe comedy. So, there’s The Office, 40-Year-Old Virgin, Borat, Curb Your Enthusiasm, America’s Funniest Home Videos. There’s a certain genre of comedy that is called cringe comedy. You watch it almost with that expectation of the things you’re going to watch are going to make you go, “Oh! Ooh! Eeh!”

What’s interesting about this is part of the research that I dove into that was also fascinating is there are some people, you’ve kind of alluded to this already, who can point at cringe comedy and laugh, and go, “Oh, my God, this is so entertaining. This is hilarious.” There are others who cannot deal. They’re underneath the covers, they’re like, “Oh, I feel this fully from head to toe. I feel ‘Diversity Day,’ ‘Scott’s Tots,’ these episodes, like I cannot watch this without having full body embarrassment.”

And so, interestingly, people who that experience on that extreme, actually have something that they feel very strongly called vicarious embarrassment, which is actually a function of empathy. When you’re particularly high on a certain type of empathy, not only do you feel that embarrassment or awkwardness and cringe for someone momentarily, but you actually take it on with them as though it’s your own, and it becomes this full body visceral reaction.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. So, working with this definition of awkwardness now, tell us, how do we make this so that it really is a jet fuel source of strength and power?

Henna Pryor
Yes. So, two-part process here. Number one is just self-awareness around this emotion in particular. So, as we started to say, it is not the same as just regular discomfort. Awkwardness, as a social emotion, is very tied to approval, “What do other people see? Do they like what they see? Do they approve of who they see?”

So, one of the first things we need to do is just peel back our own layers of self-awareness around the messages we receive around awkwardness and approval growing up. Were you someone who grew in a household where it was, “Hey, don’t speak up and stand out. Just kind of blend in”? It’s going to be more likely that you feel awkward as an adult if you’ve never undone those messages.

Are there stories that you’ve told yourself about what previous awkward interactions have meant? So, I like Dan McAdams’ research out of Northwestern. He refers to two types of stories. Let’s say you have an awkward situation at work where you spoke up in a meeting, and it was a total bomb, embarrassing, did not feel good. Do you tell yourself a contamination story, meaning, “Well, that was a nightmare and I’m never going to raise my hand ever again”? It contaminates the future.

Or, do you look for the redemption story, which is, “Okay, that didn’t feel so great, but I tried it. I raised my hand. I don’t normally do that in that meeting. I got some practice in. Hopefully, it’ll go better the next time”? What are the stories we tell ourselves?

Part two is conditioning, and I’m very passionate about this as it relates to this topic in particular. What we’re talking about when we’re talking about building awkward muscle and using it as a strength is building some strength in our social musculature. Social fitness is a type of muscle building, meaning we have to have interactions with other humans in small-stakes moments so that we can use that feeling as fuel instead of something to be fearful of.

And in this modern climate, we live in a world that’s optimized for smoothness. I don’t technically have to talk to another human being outside of my immediate family today if I don’t really want to. I can order my food online. I can order my groceries on Amazon or the Instacart. We don’t have to talk to folks when we used to.

And, nowadays, increasingly in the grocery store line, we’re looking down on our phones, we’re hammering the elevator door button shut to avoid a two-minute ride with someone. We go to the coffee shop we have in headphones. So, the problem is when we don’t have chances to practice our social muscle in small-stakes situations, when it comes to a big-stakes moment, like negotiating for your higher salary, or trying to advocate for yourself for a promotion, we are increasingly out of practice using these social muscles.

So, if we don’t practice in small-stakes moments to increase that awkward tolerance, the big-stakes moments become nearly unbearable. And so, we really need to create opportunities to condition and put in the repetitions when it comes to these social muscles.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, could you share with us a cool story of someone who put in the reps, where they start from, what did they do, and what cool results did they see on the other side?

Henna Pryor
Absolutely. Yeah, I do some executive coaching, and I worked with a private client named Satya. I talk about her a bit in the book. She was painfully shy. Her parents, very gregarious, extroverted, her sister as well. And not only was she sort of naturally introverted and shy, but she had begun a new job during the pandemic, at which point she really didn’t have any ability to meet her peers in person.

And she would see, for a period of time, her peers continue to get promoted ahead of her because they had had the advantage of things like networking, and she didn’t have natural places to do so having worked from home by herself. So, she realized, “Hey, if I want to get ahead, I got to do this thing that I don’t particularly love, I find very awkward, which is networking.”

So, she practiced in the small-stakes moments. So, first things, once the restrictions started to lift, she’s like, “My first at-bat can’t be the networking event with my entire company and 200 people.” She challenged herself to meet up with an old colleague first who she hadn’t seen in a really long time. That was at her growth edge. She went and tapped on the door of a neighbor who she’d kind of known but not really, and struck up a conversation.

She made an admission that every time she rode the subway, she lived in the city, she was going to leave her headphones out and try to just catch eyes and exchange a smile with someone, low-key, little old lady, nothing aggressive, but she slowly started to recondition these muscles that had kind of gone stagnant. And then, slowly but surely, she put herself in slightly bigger rooms.

A friend invited her out to a wine-tasting event. She said, “Normally, I don’t do that stuff, but it was a small group so I tried it.” Slowly but surely built her way up. So, by the time in two months when her company had their big kind of networking extravaganza company offsite, she felt a bit more prepared, and she had some lines on the ready. She had kind of practiced what this was going to look like.

So, in her case, we actually came up with the strategy that she would find one other person, or at least two other people, that were standing kind of by their lonesome, potentially in the same situation, and she had a line that she had practiced in the mirror about a hundred times. It was this, “My sister told me I needed to talk to at least two new people today, and we have a bet for 20 bucks. I really don’t want to pay her 20 bucks. Will you be one of them?”

And she said it immediately diffused the tension, it created this little icebreaker moment, and this colleague, the one, the first one she actually ended up introducing herself to, they ended up collaborating on a project later that year. A huge win for her. A huge visibility. And none of that would’ve happened had she not kind of put in these reps and created these strategies ahead of time.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, that’s cool. Well, so what do you recommend in terms of the different means by which we put in the reps? Like, if this were an exercise program, what are the best exercises that give us great gains and the suggested frequency and dosage of them?

Henna Pryor
Sure. I’ll give you kind of two buckets. First, from the team perspective. So, if you work on a team or if you’re a leader of a team, I would be so happy if you incorporated some specific and intentional exercises into your team meetings as it relates to this. Again, understand this is not something that happens by accident anymore. We don’t have as many bump-into-each-other-at-the-watercooler moments so we have to create intention.

Some of my favorite ways to do this, I’ll encourage leaders to have five minutes at the top of the meeting, have a bad idea brainstorm, meaning you’re encouraging your teams on purpose, “I want you to share only unrealistic ideas. Realistic ideas not allowed.” And if you’re thinking, “Why? Why would I do that?” Well, believe it or not, often the most unrealistic ideas somewhere in there is one that’s kind of, like, “Hey, that actually could be possible.” Second is even if none of them are, just by starting that way, it lowers people’s guard, and the ideas that follow in the rest of the meeting are more innovative, they’re more creative, they’re more generative, and people are more open.

There’s a similar exercise you can do, I call them cracked-egg stories, where you go around and every single person in a meeting, you can do it either one at a time or you can turn to a partner. Everyone shares one cracked-egg moment from the past week or two, a time where something did not work as planned, or it was kind of a misstep, a fumble, it was embarrassing, it was awkward, it didn’t go the way we hoped, and what did you learn from it.

But, again, by putting these into the room, intentionally creating the space for them to be put into the room, we create a more normalization of this behavior and this emotion that everyone experiences. The thing that’s wild about awkwardness and embarrassment is when you’re experiencing it and feeling it, you feel like it’s just you, “It feels like nobody else is dealing with this emotion the way that I am.” The truth of the matter is everyone is. And so, normalizing it in meetings on purpose is a huge helpful step to creating the types of environments that can take more chances and take more risks in the future.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. So, that’s the team perspective. And then individually?

Henna Pryor
Individually, again, it sounds simple but I would love to see this actually done. I would like to challenge you, listener of this show, today, next time you’re in the supermarket checkout line, leave your phone in your pocket, leave your phone in your bag. Next time you go to the coffee shop or ride the train or ride the plane, just for a few minutes, leave your headphones out.

The goal is to put yourself in minor social situations where certainty is not guaranteed. I call them strategic micro risks. If you reach out to someone in the coffee shop that’s standing in front of you in line, and say, “Hey, I love your sneakers.” Okay, chance that they could look at you like you’re a moron, chance that they continue to strike up the conversation and you meet someone fascinating and interesting.

I was sitting next to a woman at the train station the other day, a much older woman, and just kind of struck up conversation instead of sitting on my phone. I found out that she went to the same college I did, University of Delaware, but 30 years before me. She kind of knew who my father-in law was, which was wild, but these are just life moments where there are no stakes, this was not a professional conversation, but by practicing in those moments where certainty is not guaranteed, what I need you all to understand is you are creating the needed muscle to have other conversations in your professional life where certainty is not guaranteed.

So, it’s about getting comfortable with that uncertainty. If you really want to fast-track this, take an improv class. Take an improv class. If you really want to fast-track your uncertainty tolerance, improv is the fastest way that you can do it because the entire thing is built on this premise of, “I don’t know what’s going to happen next but I’m just going to stay with it. I’m just going to lean in. I’m just going to stick with it. Instead of avoiding it or deflecting it, I’m going to stay with it.” That is the fastest way you can fast-track your awkward tolerance.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, that’s fun. Any other recommended exercises?

Henna Pryor
Oh, gosh, so many. I’ve got, like, a dozen improv exercises I take people to. I also recommend to people to strategically use humor. I think some people are, like, “Well, I’m not funny. I’m not a ha-ha.” Strategically using humor in awkward situations is something that benefits everyone. And when I say strategically, it’s typically just rooted in truth.

So, I said at the top, the avoidance of awkwardness increases awkwardness. Sometimes all it takes is that one person to gently name, like, “Okay, I’ll be the first to break that awkward silence. Ooh, that was cringe. Nobody expected that.” But it just takes the one person to bring a little bit of that lightness back into the room for folks to move on.

Humor has to just be used strategically because I think, generally, what we want to do is make sure that we are not punching down. So, if you’re a leader, we don’t want to shame anyone. Like, if a junior person that’s trying to raise their hand and maybe they’ll get it wrong, there’s a silence. A leader should not say, “Hey, that was pretty awkward, buddy.” That’s not necessarily helpful, but there is a general rule of thumb not to kick down but you can punch up.

So, if the leader says something, we can all smile and go, “Oh, awkward,” but in a gentle playful way. So, there are some rules, and, again, we go into it in detail but also just learning how to find your own talk tracks. I think talk tracks are really helpful and important. When something doesn’t feel good, having language that resonates with you that you can use right away.

So, there’s an early example in the book where one of my very first meetings after we started reconvening in person, I met with a sales leader. I was trying to win a very big project, a large-scale project. Hadn’t met folks in person in a while, pandemic had restrictions had just lifted. So, 15 minutes I’m going on and on, I’m pitching, and I’m thinking, “Henna, I’m crushing it.” I did sales for 14 years, I’m like, “I’m crushing it.”

And he puts his hand in front of my face, and I’m like, “Sweet!” so I give him a high five. I’m like, “I’m nailing it. Henna, nailing it.” And then he says, this is the next thing out of his mouth, “Henna, I was putting my hand out because I was trying to tell you to stop.” And I’m like, “Oh, my God, she’s forgotten how to people.” I’m mortified but, luckily, having been in this research and knowing this work, the next line immediately out of my mouth was exactly that, which is, “Wow, okay, I’m mortified, but that was pretty awkward. Hopefully, I can still have a chance to keep going with you.”

And just by owning it, he laughed, I laughed, our shoulders relaxed, and we were able to move on. Had I let the awkwardness overtake me and have a grip on me, I would’ve gotten totally off the rails. The whole conversation would’ve left on a very different note. And so, ironically, it’s not about eliminating it or avoiding it, because, again, that’s trying to eliminate or avoid uncertainty. It’s not going to happen. It’s learning how to lean into it, to own it, to embrace it, and use it as a force for good. You tried something. Relate to folks. Create some connections. Lean into those uncertain moments, and move on.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s really cool. And this reminds me a little bit of like rejection therapy when you ask for things that you’ll probably not get, like, “Hey, can I have a discount on…?” whatever, etc. And so, what’s fun about this is it’s easier, the rejection therapy, because your odds are better that you’re not going to hear a no per se, and it’s broader in that you can have conversations about a much bigger range of things than simply requests, like, “Would you please do this for me?” “No.” “Would you please do this for me?” “No.”

As well as having more of an extended exchange as opposed to just a simple no. It’s like, “Okay, I guess that’s even a conversation.” Any thoughts about the parallels there with regards to therapy?

Henna Pryor
Yeah, I think you’re right. It’s a lower-stakes form of exposure therapy or rejection therapy. I think the goal is to recognize that we are increasingly sensitive to social interactions gone awry because we’re out of practice. So, in the case of this gentleman who I high-fived with, and he clearly wasn’t looking for a high five, what was occurring, and the research now actually corroborates this, is that because we’re in isolation in the pandemic, we started to lose our ability to read other people’s social cues.

And this is something that we know is true because there’s been studies done on people whose jobs are more isolated by nature. For example, astronauts or polar explorers, people whose jobs are isolated. They found that when they returned to social settings, those social skills atrophied, meaning they had difficulty properly reading someone’s body language, their gestures, their cues.

The same thing can happen to us. And this is where I’m also very careful to point out that awkwardness is not something limited to introverts. I am 100% an extrovert through and through. I don’t think there’s an introverted bone in my body, but after the pandemic, we all realized that we could get this kind of off balance, “Okay, my social skills aren’t quite what they used to be.”

And, again, in this moment in time where we can order our food online, my 13-year-old and I joked, she doesn’t ring her friends’ doorbells. She’s like, “Mom, just text, ‘Here.’ Text them we’re in the driveway. Text them ‘Here.’” And I’m like, “Ugh, text them ‘Here’?” I used to have to talk to my friends’ parents on the phone for 10 minutes before they got on the line.

But we don’t have these same opportunities for unexpected happenstance social interactions, so we actually have to be more intentional about carving them out to create that desensitization or that exposure therapy. We actually have to go seek it out a bit more.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And I’m thinking if you have had an awkward, embarrassing, cringey moment in the past, maybe the distant past, or the recent past, that continues to pop up and spook us, it haunts us in the here and now, any tips for how do we deal with that?

Henna Pryor
Sure. This is common. I think we can call it by a variety of names. It’s rumination. It’s lingering. Some situation had such a grip on us that it seems to keep rearing its head. I would offer two thoughts here. First, it’s okay if you think about it. I’m not concerned about you thinking about it. Humans are wired for social acceptance. If those thoughts come up every now and then, I don’t mind. The difference is do those thoughts keep you in a cycle of inaction the next time? Does that thought have such a grip strength on you that you don’t take the chance or say the thing the next time?

So, part of what I coach my own clients through is just to slow down the thinking. What are people actually thinking? Often, when we are replaying a situation in our mind, we’re making the assumption that they think we’re a moron, they think we’re inept, they think we’re unqualified, so there’s a few things I remind them of.

First of all, remind yourself of the spotlight effect. The spotlight effect is a phenomenon coined by Tom Gilovich out of Cornell that is essentially pointing the idea that people are not paying nearly as close attention to you as you think they are. They’re more concerned with themselves. They’ve already turned the spotlight back onto themselves. They’ve forgotten about you long ago.

The second thing that I love to remind people of is there’s a phenomenon called the Pratfall Effect, which is if you are generally someone who is smart, competent, capable, skillful, if you are generally someone who is seen that way, and you commit a blunder, or a misstep, or you say the wrong thing, not only will people not hold it against you for the rest of your life like you think, it actually makes you more likable.

There’s a body of research that says when you are generally seen as smart, capable, and have a decent level of aptitude, a blunder makes you human. It knocks you off the pedestal that other people put you on, and it actually makes you more warm and likable so there’s actually an upside to these things. If you are working hard, and if you’re someone who generally is prepared, and these things happen, give yourself some grace. People are not tearing you apart the way that you’re tearing yourself apart.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And you’ve got a fun turn-of-a-phrase I want to hear about – protagonist disease. What is it? And why should we watch out for it?

Henna Pryor
Yeah, it’s similar to the spotlight effect in that, often, when we are concerned about approval and when we are chasing a version of ourselves that we want other people to see, I think the millennial Gen Z population these days refer to it as having main character energy. We think that we’re the star of the show, everyone is paying attention to what we’re doing, to what we’re saying, to how we’re saying it.

In the social media era, this feels even more pronounced. Everyone is dissecting everything. But here’s the truth. Everyone is a protagonist in their own story, but as far as you’re concerned, you’re an extra in their story. You are not the center of their world. And often, when we are so consumed with, “What will other people think about this awkward moment, this misstep, this embarrassing thing?” we become so consumed with this idea that we are the protagonist of everyone’s story.

The truth is we’re not. They are the protagonist of their own story. We are merely an extra. And if we can remind ourselves of that regularly, it helps release some of that grip strength of everyone is watching because they rarely are.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, Henna, tell me, anything else you want to make sure to mention before we shift gears and hear about some of your favorite things?

Henna Pryor
Last thing I’ll just say on this is when I titled the book Good Awkward, people were like, “Oh, she wrote a book about me.” I can’t tell you how many people have responded with that phrase, “She wrote a book about me.” And what’s funny is that everyone says that, and the research actually proves that awkwardness is for everyone.

The most confident person you know, the person that you look to, and you’re like, “Gosh, they are smooth, flawless, they’ve never had a blunder, they’ve never had a misstep,” guess what, yes, they do. They experience this emotion just as much as you do. They’ve just learned how to lean in, and they’ve learned how to accelerate their comeback rate but they are not exempt from this.

It is for everyone, you included, your favorite celebrity included, and so just knowing that, hopefully, it helps everybody relax a little bit.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, now could you share a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Henna Pryor
Favorite quote, this is probably silly and funny but it’s one that I say all the time, “Don’t sweat the petty things and don’t pet the sweaty things.”

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And do you have a favorite study or experiment or bit of research?

Henna Pryor
The vicarious embarrassment one that I shared earlier, to me, is really fun. I think the one I mentioned, cringe comedy, but the other one that I thought was really exciting was this idea of embarrassment for versus embarrassment with. So, let’s just say, Pete, you walk up the steps to the stage, and you’ve got toilet paper out of the back of your pants, you don’t know it’s there, and so only I feel embarrassed. You don’t even feel it.

And if you knew it was there, then what I’m doing is empathy. But if you don’t know that it’s there, then what I’m doing is judgment. And I think that it’s a really interesting exploration of how our own tendencies to judge actually impacts our own ability to take risks. So, I think all the research around that shared empathy and vicarious embarrassment is my favorite stuff to talk about.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And a favorite book?

Henna Pryor
Probably The Gifts of Imperfection by Brene Brown on nonfiction. And on fiction, Americanah by Chimamanda Adichie.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite tool, something you use to be awesome at your job?

Henna Pryor
I think that technology can be a gift when used appropriately. I think technology is that namaste from social interaction is tough but, I hate to be cliché in this moment in time, I think that ChatGPT and generative AI is the coolest brainstorming partner for any creative work. So, I’m going to go AI, when used correctly, as a brainstorming partner.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite habit?

Henna Pryor
Can I cheat and say my favorite habit is habit stacking? I’m not someone who necessarily would just choose one habit, but I find I’m effective at picking up habits when I stack them. So, for example, as I’m washing the dishes, I start a cup of tea because I want to be someone who drinks tea at night. So, it becomes a routine that, as I’m doing the dishes after dinner, I start my water for tea. So, anytime I have it stacked, I like those habits the best because I’m more likely to do them.

Pete Mockaitis
Can you tell me more about the phrase “I want to be someone who drinks tea at night”?

Henna Pryor
I want to be someone who chooses healthy habits that serve me and keep me sharp.

Pete Mockaitis
So, as opposed to boozing?

Henna Pryor
Right, as opposed to boozing or even as opposed to, like, a bowl of ice cream, which is what I want sometimes, but I tend to find that the ritual of tea is very calming for me. And I’m someone who runs hard and talks fast as you’ve noticed in the last half hour. So, this is like a recentering moment for me, is the cup of tea at night.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And is there a key nugget you share that really seems to connect and resonate with folks; they quote it back to you often?

Henna Pryor
The one that’s coming up all the time lately is “Do it awkward but do it anyway.”

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Henna Pryor
LinkedIn is my preferred playground, so there if possible. I’m also on Instagram, hennapryor, and all the places. And information about the book is at GoodAwkward.com.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks looking to be awesome at their jobs?

Henna Pryor
I do. I do. If you want to be awesome at your job, and you are not a polar explorer or astronaut, meaning you don’t work completely by yourself, if you work with other people, I want you to challenge yourself this week to do something that strengthens your social muscle. If that’s striking up a conversation in the grocery store line, if that is ringing the doorbell instead of texting “Here,” find one opportunity to put yourself in a social situation that you, otherwise, might have had an inclination to avoid, and just see how it feels, see how it serves you, and message me on LinkedIn. Let me know how it goes.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Henna, thank you. This has been a treat. I wish you much luck and fun in your awkward moments.

Henna Pryor
Thank you for having me.