Lorraine K. Lee shares how to master your presence so that you can stand out and be recognized.
You’ll Learn
- How to make sure your work is seen by the right people in the right places
- The TEA framework for building great virtual presence
- The trick to delivering a unique and powerful introduction
About Lorraine
Lorraine K. Lee is an award-winning keynote speaker and the best-selling author of Unforgettable Presence: Get Seen, Gain Influence, and Catapult Your Career (Wiley).
Lorraine brings unique expertise in empowering both high-potential and established leaders to supercharge their presence, influence, and impact. She is passionate about helping ambitious professionals go from invisible to unforgettable in the modern workplace, and her frameworks have been adopted by Fortune 500 companies and other globally recognized organizations including Zoom, Amazon, Cisco, and McKinsey & Company.
With hundreds of thousands of LinkedIn followers, she is recognized as a LinkedIn Top Voice in workplace communication and presence. When Lorraine isn’t speaking, she teaches popular courses at Stanford Continuing Studies and LinkedIn Learning that reach a large global audience.
Before starting her own company, Lorraine spent over a decade as a founding editor at top tech firms like LinkedIn and Prezi, where she worked on core products including the LinkedIn Daily News module and LinkedIn Newsletters.
Lorraine’s insights have been featured in media outlets including CNBC, Forbes, Inc., Bloomberg, Fast Company, and Entrepreneur.
- Book: Unforgettable Presence: Get Seen, Gain Influence, and Catapult Your Career
- Book site: UnforgettablePresenceBook.com
- LinkedIn: Lorraine K. Lee
- Newsletter: Career Bites
- Website: LorraineKLee.com
Resources Mentioned
- Book: Think Faster, Talk Smarter: How to Speak Successfully When You’re Put on the Spot by Matt Abrams
- Past episode: 213: Surviving and Winning Office Politics with Dorie Clark
- Past episode: 704: How to Achieve Lasting Success by Thinking Long-Term with Dorie Clark
- Product: Elgato Key Light
- Product: Elgato Prompter
- Software: Krisp
Thank you, Sponsors!
- Strawberry.me. Claim your $50 credit and build momentum in your career with Strawberry.me/Awesome
Lorraine K. Lee Interview Transcript
Pete Mockaitis
Lorraine, welcome!
Lorraine Lee
Thank you. I’m so excited to be here.
Pete Mockaitis
Oh, I’m excited to be chatting as well. And I think presence is something that comes up often with listeners. And I’d like for you to start us with a particularly surprising or counterintuitive discovery you’ve made about professionals and presence while putting together your book, Unforgettable Presence.
Lorraine Lee
Oh, gosh. I feel like so many things that I had to learn the hard way over my career, but I would say one of the biggest surprises for me in my career was that doing really great hard work is not enough to get promoted, to get noticed, and to have a presence at work.
Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Really great, hard work is not enough. Can we get noticed and advance without it?
Lorraine Lee
You definitely need it. It’s definitely a foundational piece, but you need to take it one step further. So, yes, you are viewed as a great worker, someone who executes well, delivers great results, and you need to make sure that you have the presence, and that you are making sure that your work is being seen in the right places and has a presence in the right Slack channels, for example, in emails, and in all the places, essentially, where important people are who need to see your work to know about it.
Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And could you give us a story that illustrates this? We could see someone who was working hard, it wasn’t doing the trick, but then they did the other stuff and away they went.
Lorraine Lee
Of course. So, this is the intro that I talk about in my new book, Unforgettable Presence. And I start off sharing my experience working at LinkedIn. So, I spent most of my formative twenties at LinkedIn. It was my dream job. I worked on really exciting projects, very high-profile projects. I was well-liked by my colleagues. I liked my coworkers as well. By all accounts, looking on paper, it should have been, “Oh, of course, she’s going to get promoted at some point.”
But as hard as I tried, once I was in that mid-level position, it was really hard for me to make that jump to senior leadership, and it never ended up happening for me. And I couldn’t figure out why, I was like, “Oh, everything seems to be correct that I’m doing.” And it wasn’t until I left LinkedIn and I had more time to reflect and really think about what went wrong that I realized presence was a big piece of it, making sure I was advocating for myself, making sure I was visible, and really making sure that what I was known for in my career brand was reflecting what I wanted it to be.
And so, thankfully, that self-reflection allowed me to approach my next job with more intention, with more strategy so that I ended up getting promoted after one year there into a director-level role. And I really attribute that to all the lessons I learned while I was at LinkedIn, and all the things I saw that I could have done better. I brought that to my next company and was able to move up much faster.
Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, as you reflect on your time at LinkedIn, are there any particular face-palm moments of embarrassment as you think, “Oh, my gosh, I was so young and foolish and naive. I definitely should have done X, or I definitely should not have done Y”? Could you give us a couple bullet points on just some of the very clear in-hindsight retrospect specific things that were missed opportunities?
Lorraine Lee
There was one conversation I remember I had with a former coworker. And she, again, all similar to me, like well-liked, did great work. She had been at the company a little bit longer than me. And I always wondered in the back of my head, “How come she hadn’t gotten promoted yet in all the time that I knew her?”
And I remember one day, we get into the office and they announced promotions and she gets promoted. And I was so excited for her, so happy for her, I went up to her, congratulate her to talk to her about it. And I asked her, I’m kind of like, “This is so great. Like, I know you’ve been wanting this. Like, what happened? Did you have to do anything for it?”
And she shared this piece of advice with me. She said, “Oh, my manager didn’t even know that I wanted to get promoted.” And I feel like that was like a huge, just like, oh-my-gosh moment where, to me, of course, I’m like, “Oh, doesn’t everyone want to get promoted? Everyone wants to move up, and my manager knows I’m ambitious, right?”
And the fact that she had to say it, I feel like that was a huge game-changer for me in terms of like, “Oh, you have to be really explicit.” And I think even while I was at LinkedIn, I wasn’t explicit enough even after I learned that. But like later on when I moved to Prezi, I was like, “This is my goal. You know, I’m trying to reach it within a year. These are like the steps I’m going to take to get there. What do you think?” you know, checking in with my manager.
And so, I feel like that’s a big one that people don’t realize, is that there are certain assumptions we can make, like, “Oh, I’ve worked at a company for a certain number of years. Oh, I’m working on this really cool project. Definitely that’s enough to get promoted,” but there’s so much more that goes into it behind the scenes. But first things first, make it clear that that’s what you want in the first place.
Pete Mockaitis
Yes, absolutely. And it’s so funny. I think that there’s a macro lesson there just in terms of assumptions. And I think it’s just our human nature to think, “Well, but of course, isn’t this what everybody wants?” And it’s not. We all want very different things for very different reasons in terms of some people say, “Do not, under any circumstances, promote me. I am loving the groove that I’m in,” talking to customers, or doing some coding, or doing the sales thing instead of leading people doing the thing. It’s like, “Do not, under any circumstances, promote me. I am digging it.”
And I think it’s so funny, just the weirdest flashback. I remember I was running a model UN Conference in college, and I got a stern email from one of the advisors of the groups that was coming to our conference, and she said, “Uh, I’m so distraught that we’re bringing all these students, but we don’t have any Security Council countries.” It’s like, “Oh, well, you didn’t put down that you want any Security Council countries.”
And you might assume that, of course, if you’re doing a model UN Conference, you want the Security Council countries. They’re awesome. But some people find that very intimidating to be in a small group of 15, you know, doing the thing. And so, I was like, “Oh, do you want these countries?” Like, “Well, yes, please.” And so away you go.
So, I think that’s huge right there, is we have assumptions about, “Well, of course, everyone wants to be promoted,” or fill in the blank for anything in your career. That’s huge right there.
Lorraine Lee
That’s such a good call. I talked to someone recently and she said her husband has, similarly, like you just said, like he does not want to get promoted because it means that he has to go into the office a few days a week. Like, his manager has really wanted to promote him and he’s like fighting it like, you know, at all costs. He’s like, “I don’t want to get promoted. I don’t want to go into the office.” So, like you said, everyone has different life circumstances and goals at different points in life.
Pete Mockaitis
Certainly. And then, thinking from the other perspective of the manager, when the manager sees there is a big complex, tricky project coming up, exactly the sort of thing that doing well could make folks think, “Oh, maybe we should promote this person,” they don’t know. It could feel like, “Hmm, I could present this to Lorraine, but would that feel like an imposition?” Like, “Oh, more work and stress and responsibility. I’m not into that.” So, they don’t even know, “Would that be a welcome or rejected?”
Well, any other face-palm insights from your time at LinkedIn?
Lorraine Lee
I think another one was the way you present your work also needs to be strategic. So, it’s not just, “Oh, I’m going to be visible and I’m going to list off every single thing I did,” or, “Oh, I’m going to be visible and I’m going to, like, shoot off a quick email.” It actually takes, it’s a skill, which I think is also quite interesting and it took me a while to realize too.
It’s a skill to learn how to position your work, to understand the stakeholders who are receiving the information, to know how to talk yourself up, talk your team up in a way that others will embrace. And so, LinkedIn, we sent out a weekly newsletter on behalf of the whole team. And that was really great practice for me to see, “Oh,” I would put my information in and then we had someone on the team just editing the whole thing.
And sometimes he would cut things out. Sometimes he would rephrase things. And, similarly, like when I would send out an email on a project I was working on, I would show it to my manager, and say, “Hey, what do you think of the way I’m presenting this? Does this work, given the audience? Am I presenting this well?” And so, he or she, depending on my manager at the time, would go in and make edits. And so, that was also very eye-opening, how much work goes into those kinds of emails. It’s not just like a quickly dash off thing.
Pete Mockaitis
Well, so let’s speak about that for a moment because I think it’s quite possible there’s a segment of listener who says, “Oh, that sounds miserable. And are we trying to get something done here, Lorraine? We’re trying to add value, solve problems, build, ship stuff, build features, delight customers. And we’re fiddling over how we’re wording an internal email. Is this really time well spent?” How do you respond to this?
Lorraine Lee
It is. I get it. I get you’re like, “Oh, there’s just so many other things we could be doing,” but that’s a huge part of, like I said at the beginning, like working hard, getting cool things done. I mean, that’s great. But if no one knows about it, like what’s it all for? And so, I like to use the analogy, “If a tree falls in the forest, did it make a sound?” If you worked hard, but no one knows about it, like, did it even happen, right?
So, we have to, again, mindset shift, like, in order to take control of our career, to be the CEO of our own careers, I talk about in the book, to be more intentional with our career, there’s a bunch of different puzzle pieces that go into it, and advocating for ourselves, being more visible with our work, that’s one of them. And it’s going to benefit the team. It’s going to benefit everyone when they know what you’re doing, when they can help connect dots, when you can connect dots, and really understand the impact that your team is having.
Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, tell us what would be perhaps your recommended first puzzle piece, immediate initial steps in building an unforgettable presence?
Lorraine Lee
The first thing is mindset and understanding the concept of a career brand. And so, a lot of us, we, or, you know, speaking for myself, you enter the workforce, and you just come from school, and you think there’s sort of a set path for you, “I’m going to work hard up in here for two years. I’m going to get promoted, and keep moving up the ladder.” And that’s just not the way that corporate America works at this point.
And so, to understand that and to have the mindset of, “Okay, I need to be in control of my career, be the CEO of my own career, and really take things into my own hands. So, I’ll just be passive,” and let things happen to you, I think that’s the first step. The second thing I would say is understanding this concept of a career brand, which is essentially a personal brand, but a reframe in a way that maybe makes people feel less like cringy about it.
So, personal brand is something we all have already and it’s essentially our reputation and what people say about us when we’re not in the room. So, thinking through your personal brand or career brand and understanding, “Okay, how do people currently perceive me? And how might I want them to perceive me in the future?”
Now, if I had done this exercise at LinkedIn, I would have realized, “Okay, the way that people are probably describing me, executor, hard worker, fast worker,” all these adjectives are not necessarily the adjectives that people use to describe leaders, which would be more like strategic, visionary, cross-functional collaborator, whatever it is. And so that’s really critical, too, to make sure that you are just self-aware of like where you’re at currently. And once you know that you can start making adjustments and moving towards that future self, whatever your goals are.
And then the third piece of that, I think, is your virtual presence and realizing that that’s a really important piece. Your virtual presence on video, your virtual presence on LinkedIn, those can sometimes be even more important than our in-person presence because we’re meeting most people virtually first. And so, to be intentional about that and think about, “How do I want to show up in those spaces?” is really critical.
Pete Mockaitis
I like that a lot when you talked about the brand keywords there, like hardworking, conscientious, detail-oriented, any number of these words. These sound like good things, like, “Hey, would you rather your employee be these things or the opposite of these things?” “Well, yes, yes, yes. Hardworking, we want that, certainly.”
And yet, as you’ve nicely highlighted, those are not the same things as what we think of in terms of an executive. And I think that, in a way that is applicable for any brand that you encounter, like there’s a time and a place for Chipotle. Think about eateries. And then there’s a time and a place for, say, Chick-fil-A, or Starbucks. So, these are big, well-known brands. And yet, we can say good things about each of them, and they may not be the match for what you’re seeking in a given gathering, moment, encounter, etc.
Lorraine Lee
Yeah. And it also depends, like, “What are you striving for?” Yeah, if you like being a hard worker, you like where you’re at, and all those are positive adjectives that describe you currently, great. But if you’re wanting, like me, like I was to advance and to be seen as a leader, you have to make some adjustments and change your perception in other people’s eyes.
Pete Mockaitis
So, let’s just get an example here. So, if we’re thinking, okay, all right. I want folks to be putting the adjective strategic onto me, to have these things tied together in terms of my brand vibe, what might I do in the course of living my career life to get strategic associated to me?
Lorraine Lee
There’s a lot of different things you can do. I think one of the first things I always say, like when you have a goal you’re working towards something, is to lean on the people around you, and, again, like make your goals known, but also build those relationships at work so that people, they know your goals. I call it, in the book, a feedback circle.
So, find your feedback circle. Who are the people who you know want you to succeed, who are going to give you honest, truthful feedback, who are going to look out for you? And as you start doing things with them, like, “Oh, I’m going to be presenting in a meeting next week, and I want to be seen as more strategic. Can you observe my presentation and let me know if you feel like, you know, I’m closer to that or do you feel like I’m still too in the weeds?”
So, the more you can bring people into what you’re trying to do and give you the feedback, they’re going to be looking out for you because I think the hardest thing to do when you are trying to change someone’s perception of what you want to be known for, is that you need other people’s feedback. Like, you don’t want to operate in a vacuum.
So, in the book, I talk about the EPIC career brand framework as a way to start thinking through what your brand is, how you want to position yourself. And so, EPIC stands for experiences, personality, identity, community. So, that C piece, knowing how your network sees you, knowing how others see you, that’s going to be critical and making sure whatever it is that you want to change to, like you’re staying aligned.
And then I had the chance to interview Dorie Clark in the book as well. She’s amazing. And she talked about the brand as raindrops and, like, you have to keep sort of repeating, dripping, you know, multiple mentions of your brand, and keep mentioning it, especially if you’re trying to change it, over time in many different places. It’s not like a flip of a switch, all of a sudden, you’re strategic. It’s going to take a little bit of time, consistent actions, consistent visibility, and just staying consistent with your actions in order for other people to see you like that.
Pete Mockaitis
I hear that, that makes a lot of sense there. We’ve had Dorie on the show a few times. She’s wonderful.
Lorraine Lee
Oh, good.
Pete Mockaitis
With the multiple exposures, that makes all the difference in the world because if it’s a one-time thing, you mentioned, like, “Wow, Lorraine was really sharp today. That was cool. Huh, I guess she had a good night’s sleep.” It’s almost like, “That’s sort of a one-off. That’s an exception,” versus, “Oh, I guess that’s who you are now. Cool.”
Lorraine Lee
Yeah, exactly. Like, it just takes so many repetitions and, especially, again, like so many of us are hybrid, virtual, like we are just so distracted. There are so many different places now we can communicate, we can see each other, and so you have to just keep going, and you got to, like, find all the right channels, and make sure it’s repeated constantly.
Pete Mockaitis
Now, the P of EPIC is personality. So, Lorraine, are we supposed to change our personality? Isn’t that inauthentic and fake? What do we do in there?
Lorraine Lee
Definitely do not need to change your personality. So, the personality piece is, yes, your personality and the soft skills that make you who you are. So, for example, I’m introverted. I know Dorie is introverted as well. And I talk about introversion all the time on LinkedIn. Like, that’s part of my brand. And I want people to know that I’m introverted because me being introverted means that I work a little bit differently. I think a little bit differently than perhaps what you conventionally would expect to see in corporate America.
And so, having people know whether you’re a more serious person, whether you’re like the culture builder and you’re always bringing energy, like that also impacts, like, “You have a big project? Hmm, we need certain personality types to keep this all going, to keep this moving.” You want people to know who you are and within reason. Like, you’re still in a professional setting, but showing more of your true self can also help people connect with you, and then know more about what you bring to the table.
Pete Mockaitis
Well, let’s just say that I have a personality that some might call quirky or eccentric or weird, to be less positive. If we find ourselves where that’s true, just the way we are is distinctive, but maybe not in an advantageous way, what are we to do with that?
Lorraine Lee
I think If you have a personality, and it’s like rubbing a bunch of people the wrong way, and maybe it’s like something about the way you’re communicating, that might be worth revisiting. Like, what is going on? But if you have a quirky personality, a “weird” personality, I hope that you find a place that values those things because we don’t want to work with people who are all exactly the same as us. That’s not going to lead to better business results. And I just feel like work is more boring that way, right, when everyone is the same.
And so, don’t try to change your personality to fit everyone else. But if your personality, there’s something about it where you’re like constantly getting negative feedback or things are coming across a certain way, it isn’t helping your career, then I think maybe you probe a little bit deeper, try to understand how others might be perceiving you. It might not be your intention.
Pete Mockaitis
Certainly. That’s well said. Like, there could be just a couple things, like, “When you say words like awesome and cool beans, that doesn’t feel professional enough for our executive-level attorney clients.” And so, it’s like, “Oh, well, that’s easy. No problem. That’s a quick tweak there,” versus like, “The way you are.”
Lorraine Lee
You’re being.
Pete Mockaitis
Yes, “The way you speak and be, seems like it would vibe more with a writing room of a comedy TV series than in a super buttoned-up professional services environment.”
Lorraine Lee
We all have different sides of our personality. So, like I have a more professional side of me that’s different than how I am with my friends, which is different than how I am with my family, and so that’s okay. Like, you can still be bringing different parts of your authentic self to those different situations, but, you know, sometimes it might require some tweaking or just adjusting some things just based on the context and setting that you’re in, like you said.
Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, speaking of letters standing for things, how’s that for a segue? You mentioned the UPI, a unique and powerful introduction. Tell us, what is this? Why is it important? And then I want lots of demonstrations.
Lorraine Lee
Sure. The UPI, I came up with this concept because I felt like, in a lot of meetings that I was in, a lot of networking events that I would go to, the introduction felt like such a throwaway moment for a lot of people. They would either just kind of rush off, you know, mention their job title, their company, or like, “Oh, I’ve been at the company for three years,” but that didn’t really tell me much.
And you don’t have to be speaking for, like, five minutes and having a super long-winded introduction, but adding just a little bit something extra, I feel like goes such a long way in others better understanding the value you offer, who you are, more of your personality. You come across as more authoritative, depending on what information you’re going to include.
And so, I started experimenting with this myself when I was at Prezi. So, I used to say something along the lines of, “Oh, I lead the editorial team at Prezi.” Well, okay, to me, I know what that means, but to someone who’s never worked with an editorial team before, like, “What the heck do you do?” So, then I changed it to, “I lead the editorial team, which means that I collaborate with a lot of business leaders such as yourself. I help them create educational content through Prezi. And then we distribute that to help inspire our millions of users.”
And so, with that, you now understand what I actually do. You understand some context, like, “Wow, you have hundreds of millions of users. Like, that’s a very powerful thing and an impressive thing,” so there’s like a little bit credibility there. And now you’ve learned a little bit more about me. And so, there’s a lot of different ways that you can approach that.
But I wanted people to, again, like intentionality is a key theme, but to be more intentional, to think, “Okay, every moment that we have with someone is a chance to leave an impression, to create unforgettable presence.” And we’re meeting new people all the time, right, new colleagues, clients, partners, like whoever it is. And so, that’s what the UPI was built for; unique and powerful introduction to remind people to think a little bit more about this important moment.
Pete Mockaitis
And I’m thinking back to occasions in which, you know, a project team is assembled from across different departments, and so folks are meeting each other for the first time, like a kickoff meeting, and so everyone goes around and they say a little bit about, you know, who they are. And it’s funny, I remember, I always found that very boring.
So, when you say that, “Hey, here’s an opportunity to be unforgettable,” I’m thinking, “Well, wow, we’re really raising the bar here associated with what is a common practice.” So, part of it is just defining terms. So, I know with that, “What does editorial team mean?” Okay, I can really visualize that in terms of what that look, sounds, feels like in your daily practice. Are there any other particular principles or pointers that you would suggest when sharing your unique and powerful introduction?
Lorraine Lee
There’s definitely an opportunity to use more of, like, a mission or vision statement for yourself. So not just job title. But, for example, like when I meet people now, like I might say something like, “Oh, I’m super passionate about helping rising leaders and ambitious professionals go from overlooked to unforgettable.”
So, I’m sort of, I’m stating the problem I solve. I’m not even mentioning my job title. And someone might say, “Oh, like how interesting. Tell me more. Like, how do you do that?” “Well, I speak, I teach, etc.” So, it gives you kind of an opening there. There’s also an opportunity to mention something personal about yourself.
So, I’ve definitely been on calls where someone’s sharing their title, the company, “Oh, and I have three dogs and in my spare time, I really love to bake.” “Oh, great. Okay. Some personal information. Now I kind of get to know you a little bit more on a less surface level and maybe we have a hobby in common that I just learned about, or at least I can, you know, turn to you, ask you for more about that later.”
So, there’s a lot of different ways that you can approach it. There’s no sort of cookie-cutter template to use. And I think that’s the beauty of it is that you might have one UPI for a networking event, you might have a different UPI in a team meeting, and you might have a different UPI on a client call.
Pete Mockaitis
And what you just did there is it sounds like you have thoughtfully crafted and practiced, or at least experienced saying it many times, what you just said there, as opposed to, “Hey, so tell me about yourself, or what do you do?” Like, this doesn’t just pop into your head and out of your mouth impromptu willy-nilly.
Lorraine Lee
Think about where you are, what would make sense given the people who are there. Practice, like you said, because sometimes when it’s, you know, you’re not just saying your name and the company you work for, it’s a little bit.
Unusual, so it might take a little bit practice. And then you can also, again, like leverage your manager, your friends, your family, like, “Hey, here’s how I’m planning on introducing myself. What do you think?” So, again, like I’m so big on feedback. And so, if you’re not really sure like, “Oh, is this too long? Is this the right information to include?” bounce the ideas around.
Pete Mockaitis
Well, can we have some more demonstrations?
Lorraine Lee
Okay. So, one might be, like, I’m on the engineering team, and I work on, or so some people might say like, “Oh, I’m an engineer,” at whatever company you work at. Okay, well, there’s lots of engineers who work on a lot of different products. So, “I’m an engineer working on the homepage,” is already more information, right? And, “You can turn to me anytime you have a feature request or you see a bug, like, I’m the person to go to.”
“Okay, great. Now I know what to go to you for. And now I also,” again, like that added credibility, “Like, you’re not just like any engineer at the company. You are working on this. You are the lead of the project,” for example. So that might be one.
But there are other folks, too, who are like, instead of just saying like, “I’m in customer service,” “I make sure that our customers remain satisfied, and I cut down whatever complaints by like 20%,” whatever it is. You can add a metric in there, for example. But explaining what you do without saying the exact title, I think, is another nice approach, where it’s just a little bit more conversational as well.
Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, it seems like some of the ingredients here are, it’s not just title or department. We have the specificity necessary to be able to really visualize what’s up, what’s going on. You might throw in a result. You might throw in what you’re personally passionate about. There might be a metaphor.
Any thoughts for how short is too short and how long is too long?
Lorraine Lee
I would say a few sentences is good, no more than a few sentences. I think you don’t want to, you can kind of feel it, right, if you’re just like still talking, and you’re like, “I’ve been kind of explaining about what I do for a while.” Like, you want to have some back and forth. So, you want to just give them enough where you create some intrigue, and then that creates some conversation. Like, they want to ask, “Oh, tell me more,” or, “Oh, that’s super helpful to know. Like, here’s what I do.”
And so, I think, again, like depending on the context, I think networking events, you can be a little bit more mysterious or kind of present the problem that you solve. It’s a little bit different maybe at a company where you might want to just describe more what exactly it is that you do on a daily basis. But, yeah, I think, you know, trust your gut.
Pete Mockaitis
Certainly. But, yeah, and that’s how you learn whether or not it’s resonant or off-putting, and how you have different versions for different audiences, so that’s really handy. Can you tell us, in the world of a virtual presence, are there any top do’s or don’ts you’d highlight for folks?
Lorraine Lee
Yes, so many. I will start off talking about the TEA method. So that stands for tech energy and aesthetics. You can tell, Pete, I like a lot of acronyms. So, TEA stands for tech, energy, and aesthetics, and those are the three things that you need to think about before you jump on a call. And I came up with that because I feel like virtual presence, video presence, can sometimes feel very overwhelming.
Like, there’s a lot of things you can do and there’s a lot of things we see, like we see like podcasters with fancy backgrounds and mood lighting and all this and that, but we don’t really need that in order to make an impression, to stand out, to create a strong presence. And so, with tech, you’re going to want a good microphone, a good webcam, maybe some software to help enhance the sound, whatever it is.
Energy, you’re going to want to make sure that you are having energy on the call, communicating in such a way that allows you to develop and build relationships. And then aesthetics, you want to make sure that you look good on camera, too. And so that includes things like your framing, your lighting, and going back to energy, like body language is also an important one, I forgot to mention.
But there’s a lot of different things that go into those categories, but focus on those three, get the basics down and you will be off to a really good start, better than most people. Even after all these years remote, you would think everyone has it figured out, but that’s not the case.
Pete Mockaitis
Well, those are nice. And maybe if we could hear perhaps a couple of sub-bullets there. With regard to tech, any do’s or don’ts? Like, you see all the time, like, is the lighting bad? Or is microphone troubling? Or what would you zoom in on as some very common things that need corrected?
Lorraine Lee
Sure. The first one, I would say, if you have to get anything new that you don’t already have, microphone is probably the most important because if someone has bad video, if you can hear them, you can still be engaged. If you can’t hear them and someone just, it’s just chopping in and out, I’m sure we’ve all been on those calls, it’s so frustrating. You’re like, “I can’t, I’m sorry. We have to reschedule this.”
So having a microphone because our microphones in our laptops are not great. That’s key. And then I think, with your webcam, or having a webcam in the first place, I think is also really important because I still see this. A lot of people will have their monitor here and their laptop camera here, and so they’re looking at their monitor and they’re not making eye contact. And eye contact is a key part to aesthetics, making sure we look good and also energy, too, making sure we’re connecting.
And so, that’s another one that I see a lot of that people are sort of defaulting to the monitor, but they don’t have a camera there. And it’s just not a very good experience for the person on the other side. It’s really hard to stay connected that way.
Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, I hear you there. And, well, I’ll restrain myself from just rattling off tons of things because I love this. But, if I may, I’ve got a fun little tidbit called Elgato Prompter, which means that I am able to look at you and the camera at the same time, which is so fun for me and people. They’re like, “It looks like you’re looking right at me. How is that even possible?” So, that’s just really fun.
And then with regard to the choppiness, that’s usually a matter of internet reliability, connectivity, bandwidth. And talk about assumptions, I assumed everybody in the world use Speedtest.net on a daily basis. They don’t. So, that’s just a PSA there.
You’ve got a tip for how to avoid a “resting business face” on calls. First of all, what is this phenomenon of resting business face? Why do I want to avoid it? And how do I do so?
Lorraine Lee
So, RBF is a play on the other RBF. And, basically, when we’re on video, I mean, most of us are at home or in some sort of relaxed environment. And it’s so easy to forget what our expression looks like when we are passive listening to someone else. And so many of us do, because we’re relaxed, right? We’re just like kind of at home, just leaning back in our chair, like furrowing our eyebrows, or whatever it is that we’re doing.
And even if you have, yeah, like, a neutral expression on your face, like we want to look like we’re engaged. We don’t want to look like we’re not wanting to be there. And so, to be aware of your facial expressions is key. And so, I know it’s super obvious advice, but it goes a long way. Smiling, you know, get on a call, smile, look like you’re happy to be there with the person. Look like you’re engaged and wanting to chat. Like, small things like that go a long way.
And then adding your body language, your hand gestures, things like that like it’s going to feel, make it feel more like an in-person conversation. It’s going to be easier for all of us to stay engaged. And then also, break free from the RBF, because I feel like the RBF happens when we’re relaxed and just not really thinking about how we’re coming across.
Pete Mockaitis
That’s so good. And I had a tip from a high school teacher, and he said, “You know how you can instantly look 10 IQ points smarter? Close your mouth.” So, your resting face might very well be a little bit mouth open just cause maybe they’re walking through a document, and you are kind of reading it, too. So, like close your mouth. And it does take some extra energy and attention, which can be hard to sustain all day long. So maybe pick and choose your battles.
Lorraine Lee
Yeah, pick and choose. And then I think turning off self-view helps a lot. That’s when you keep it on, it’s just like a mirror up to your face all day. That’s where video fatigue comes from. It’s just, like, I’m looking at myself. I’m examining myself, “You know, Pete says something funny,” I’m like, “Ooh, looking at myself. How do I look when I laugh?” Like, just making all these observations, it’s exhausting.
Pete Mockaitis
That’s good. That’s good. I’m reminded of, tell me what you think about this. I’ve had times in my life where a friend is speaking or presenting, and I just know that they’re nervous. And so, I’m thinking, “I’m going to try to be, with my face and body, the most kind, friendly, loving, supportive audience member in the world that I would love to have in my audience, and do that for them.”
And it takes some real energy, but it does, it feels, it feels good. Like, I’m putting some love out into the world. And I got to imagine, over hundreds of meetings, this practice will go leaps and bounds towards boosting your likeability.
Lorraine Lee
Oh, yeah.
Pete Mockaitis
“Whenever I’m talking, this guy seems into it. I like that.”
Lorraine Lee
Yeah. Oh, my gosh, me as a presenter, whenever I see that in person, virtually, I’m just like, “Thank you. Like, so kind. It helps me, gives me a boost of confidence.” It’s like, “Okay, I know you’re with me.” Like you said, just that one person who’s smiling at you makes a huge difference.
Pete Mockaitis
Certainly. Well, any other top things you want to make sure to mention before we hear about your favorite things?
Lorraine Lee
Well, I’ll touch on the lighting and the aesthetics, the A. Lighting, super easy to fix. A lot of people don’t do it for whatever reason. So, adding an extra light in your space, I think, goes a long way. You look younger, fresher, brighter, like all these good things. And, yeah, it doesn’t take much. So, we don’t want witness protection program vibes. Like, we don’t want the light behind us. That’s a big no-no. And a lot of people still have, like, the windows behind them, that makes them look backlit. So, avoid that if you can.
Pete Mockaitis
Well, I’m all about flipping it so the windows are illuminating the face. And you get to look outside, which just feels good.
Lorraine Lee
Yeah, that’s the best. That’s the best.
Pete Mockaitis
So, when you say grab a light so that we can orient towards the window, that’s great. I’m shilling for Elgato today, but I’ve got the Elgato Key Lights, which I think are snazzy. But is it just like any lamp will do? Or what do you mean by grab a light?
Lorraine Lee
I would say it depends on how much light you need. You can start off with a ring light, 12 inches to 16 inches in diameter so you get enough light. Some people with glasses, I know like the ring light shows in that, so maybe a Softbox makes more sense. I’m in a den right now with, unfortunately, no natural light so I actually ended up buying LED lights because those were extra powerful. So, those have been good.
Whatever light you buy, remember to get lights with different temperature settings because sometimes light might creep in from the side, maybe it’s the makeup I have, the clothes I’m wearing, the color just changes a little bit. So, when you can have those different settings, you can adjust and just have more control over how you appear.
Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, now can we hear about a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?
Lorraine Lee
One phrase that I have really operated by during my career that really resonated with me the first time I heard it was to, “Over prepare, but don’t over plan.”
So, it’s good to have a general sense of where you want to go, but really what’s more important is to prepare for whatever’s going to come your way. So, make sure that you’re networking consistently, make sure that you are building up your skills and, yeah, all that stuff is very important.
And then stay open because, when you are too rigid about what you want for your future, it can really close you off to new and exciting things. And so over prepare, but don’t over plan.
Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And a favorite study or experiment or bit of research?
Lorraine Lee
Okay, I will reference the famous Xerox study, and I also talk about this in my book. It was very interesting. It showed how powerful the word because is, and how much it can influence people’s actions. And they did this study where a few people were waiting in line, and someone asked, “Can I skip the line? Can I make a copy?” And not that many people, I don’t remember the exact percentage, not that many people let that person skip.
But then when that person says, “Oh, I want to make a few copies because…” you know, whatever the reason is, almost 100% of people let them skip the line. And then they did it again, and they said, “Oh, I want to skip the line because I have to make copies,” which is like, you know, that’s not like a really compelling reason. Like, that’s what they’re all in line for, but still almost 100% of people still let that person skip the line.
So, I think when you think about communication and impactful communication, finding things like that, like even just like the addition of that word, an addition of a reason, if you’re trying to get buy-in or trying to get people to take an action, or to let you take an action, little things like that can go a long way.
Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Thank you. And a favorite book?
Lorraine Lee
All right, fiction series, Harry Potter. And then non-fiction series or non-fiction books, I really like the book by my mentor, Matt Abrams, Stanford GSB professor, Think Faster, Talk Smarter.
Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite tool?
Lorraine Lee
I use a lot. I will say going back to the TEA method because we didn’t exactly talk too much about software, I use a software called Krisp, K-R-I-S-P. It helps me eliminate all random sounds that aren’t my voice.
Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite habit?
Lorraine Lee
I stretch each night before I wind down to watch TV before sleeping.
Pete Mockaitis
And tell me what benefits does this stretching yield in your life?
Lorraine Lee
I feel better that I’m taking care of myself, and I think it’s good. It’s so hard when we’re just go, go, go to really focus on you, and just the stretch for a few minutes and just have that quiet time for yourself. I feel like that helps me just regroup and like just wind down from the day, you know. It can be easy to just stay like in this heightened go, go, go state, but I think it helps with just calming down, having a good night’s sleep. That’s important.
Pete Mockaitis
And is there a key nugget you share, a Lorraine original sound bite, that folks tend to quote to you often?
Lorraine Lee
A lot of people talk about the EPIC career brand. I think they’ve been very excited about that framework from the book. And I think, also, I talk a lot about how introverts have superpowers, and I think a lot of people like to reference that as well.
Pete Mockaitis
And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?
Lorraine Lee
Definitely, connect with me on LinkedIn, Lorraine K. Lee. And then you can also learn more about my book at UnforgettablePresenceBook.com. And then I have a free newsletter, Career Bites, bite-sized tips to supercharge your career in three minutes or less. You can find that at LorraineKLee.com/subscribe.
Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks looking to be awesome at their jobs?
Lorraine Lee
Get your virtual set up in order for your virtual interviews. I think it will go a long way in helping you feel more confident and look more professional on camera.
Pete Mockaitis
All right. Lorraine, thank you.
Lorraine Lee
Thank you so much.