879: How to Restore Confidence Quickly with Selena Rezvani

Pete Mockaitis
Selena, welcome back to How to be Awesome at Your Job.

Selena Rezvani
Thank you, Pete, for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I’m excited to be chatting. I think you’ve got, perhaps, the most perfectly titled book for our audience in memory, Quick Confidence: Be Authentic, Boost Connections, and Make Bold Bets on Yourself. All those sounds great so I think we’ll have a lot of fun here.

Selena Rezvani
Yeah, I am so excited about the book. It’s newly in people’s hands, and soon to be in their ears too as an audiobook.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, that’s great. Did you spend lots of time in the studio?

Selena Rezvani
Six hours and 49 minutes, Pete.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s finished audio. But, like, how long were you in there?

Selena Rezvani
Yeah, about three days, three full days, so it was a different kind of lift for sure, that’s some project. Definitely good to have a hot cup of tea after those big days of speaking.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, I bet. I bet that is plenty. And, speaking of big lifts, or maybe that’s a terrible segue, I want to know about your mango-eating contest performance.

Selena Rezvani
Oh, yes.

Pete Mockaitis
So, lay it on us.

Selena Rezvani
Yes. So, one of my first trips as an adult, I got to enter a mango-eating contest, and then actually smash it and win. So, it’s really fun. I couldn’t use my hands. Pretty slippery endeavor. But, yeah, they had it at my hotel, and it’s a title. I wish I had like a wrestling belt with that on the front that I have that mango-eating contest winner. Unfortunately, no takeaway from that but just the story.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, leave it to me to invent a takeaway, Selena. I think we’ll find one perhaps. But, first, I got to get clear on the rules. You’re supposed to eat a mango as quickly as possible without any hands?

Selena Rezvani
There were pieces of mangoes without any hands, yup.

Pete Mockaitis
It’s so hard to peel them.

Selena Rezvani
Yeah, that’s right. It’d be hard to do the other way.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And how many competitors were there?

Selena Rezvani
There were three other people.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, congratulations. Are you a mango fan to this day? Has it shifted your relationship to mangoes?

Selena Rezvani
It is. I love mangoes, always have. So, I think it just only strengthened my love. I make Mango Lassis, actually, with fresh mangoes.

Pete Mockaitis
My favorite part of the mango process is when you slice them very uniquely, and you have those little cubes, and then they all just come off with a spoon, just ready to go.

Selena Rezvani
Yes, it’s like an Instagram moment or something.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, let’s talk about your latest Quick Confidence: Be Authentic, Boost Connections, and Make Bold Bets on Yourself. That all sounds so fantastic. I’d love it if you could kick us off with maybe a particularly striking, startling, counterintuitive discovery that you came up with as you were digging in, putting together, and doing your research for this one?

Selena Rezvani
Well, I think for so many of us, confidence can feel like this elusive trait, like you’re either born with it or you’re not. And, in fact, one of the joys of writing this book was breaking confidence down into three elements that are learnable, that we can practice and all get better at. And those are your mindsets, your beliefs, your body language, how you carrying yourself, and then, of course, your interactions, those interpersonal moments with others.

So, I know, Pete, for so long in my own career, I felt like that very good but second or third choice job candidate. And it wasn’t so much because of my competence as it was my confidence. So, it’s really rewarding and exciting to get to share with people what I’ve learned once I really started to focus on building confidence in my life. It changed my life, and I know most people don’t have a lifetime to learn this. So, lots of quick actionable strategies in Quick Confidence to get better at this.

Pete Mockaitis
So, when you talked about changing your life, I’d love to get a clear sense either if it’s your story or someone else you know who’s a reader or client, just what’s possible and what’s at stake in terms of the upgrade in confidence we can actually get our hands on, and what that can mean for our careers and our lives?

Selena Rezvani
Sure. Well, I think confidence can come in different forms, maybe not all the ways that we picture it as being superhuman or just extra bold. I can think of a time in my own career where I was feeling like every door I opened was the wrong door. I had graduated with a master’s degree in social work, and while I loved the skills I was learning, the problem-solving, the diagnostic skills empowering people, I could not leave this job at work on the weekends.

I was constantly thinking about my clients who were in very hard, difficult situations, and I have the utmost respect for people who can do this work, but it was becoming really clear to me, Pete, I was not suited to do this. And I tried it with different populations groups, lost 10 pounds, like, I was a mess. And I remember in that moment of, honestly, shame and other things, like I just spent all this time learning this, investing in this degree, how could I not be right for this?

Thinking I need to make a bold move here. I need to look outside this domain, and I’m certain there’s ways I can apply these skills to other areas. I wish I could do it in the workplace, to use these same skills there. And I started looking at all different places, I started asking people I knew, connections of connections, really feeling intent on finding an avenue where I could apply this but stay sane and feel it was a sustainable path for me.

And so, one day, I decided I’m looking everywhere, I went on Craigslist. And there, like, “Ahh,” was this amazing job, working at the Great Place to Work Institute, that’s the company that ranks the Fortune 100 best places to work in America list, and they help really crummy workplaces kind of elevate the employee voice, to advocate for employees. And I applied for a job, and I got it. And how wonderful and lucky a break that was for me in terms of finding a home I really loved where I could use those social work skills but in a way that suited me.

And I think it’s not just those shiny exciting moments where confidence comes into play. I think sometimes it’s in our desperate moments where we need to think of a more creative option. We need to do things differently.

Pete Mockaitis
And so, in your journey there, the confidence gap or lack moment is it sound like your low point was, “Uh-oh, I spent all this time investing in the degree and such in doing this career, and it’s not the thing.” And so, in that moment, where you said there’s shame in terms of what does that sound like, if I may, inside your head, like, “I’m no good. I wasted those times”? Like, what are you saying to yourself?

Selena Rezvani
Yeah, that’s such a great question. I think it was statements like, “What were you thinking when you committed to this field? How could you be so off-based in your calculation that this was right for you? How are you going to tell your mom, your siblings, your friends, that this is kind of a fail or feels like one?” So, a lot of those thoughts.

And then, of course, like there’s avoidance in addition to that, which is sometimes we put our heads down and we don’t even entertain, listen to those thoughts. We just say, “Maybe I can power through.” And I did a lot of that, which didn’t work very well but was an attempt.

Pete Mockaitis
It’s fascinating when you started this story where I thought you were going was, “And then you learned how you can…” Because it’s like, “Ooh, Selena, I want that skill, too,” because I love solving problems, cracking cases, but I think I’d be a terrible detective in that I would be thinking about the case nonstop, and it would drive me nuts. If there’s like an open loop, an unsolved problem, I’ll just work away on it constantly.

And, in a way, hey, I’ve come up with some great solutions. And other way, it’s like I just want to enjoy this time away doing something else with other people and being really genuinely present there. And sometimes I fall short if there’s a pressing high-stakes question in it, and the answer is just out of reach, that I can almost make the connections but I can’t.

Or, politics, I think I enjoy trying to win people over, and I enjoy winning, in general, and I think that’d be dangerous for my soul in terms of, like, if I slice things and then just go down a slippery slope of I don’t recognize myself anymore. So, part of the confidence game is just recognizing what are your actual abilities, limitations, and not beat yourself up. Let’s see, okay, well, given that, what would be the most suitable choice for me here?

Selena Rezvani
That’s right. And be willing to try things a different way. We can get really stuck in talking-to-ourselves mode, or, “Why can’t you just power through this?” rather than saying, maybe having that really honest conversation with ourselves, “This isn’t working. This feels like a wrong fit. This feels like something I’m forcing,” and liberating ourselves from that.

I think there’s confidence in liberating yourself from something that’s not working. Then you can start to think creatively and look for solutions and new ideas, but there’s something to be said for that acknowledgement. When there’s a voice grieving inside, we need to do things differently.

Pete Mockaitis
Certainly. And it sounds like it’s a prudent measured wise acknowledgement as opposed to the globalized, “Oh, I’m worthless. I’m no good. I’m a failure. I’m a screw up. I’ll never amount to anything,” etc. like all that head trash. But rather, I don’t remember who said it, like, humility is not an underestimation of your skills, virtues, value, competence, but an honest assessment, “Hey, I’m amazing at this and I’m not so great at this,” and that’s okay.

Selena Rezvani
Yes, and you need to bring those what I call rational counterstatements to the stories you’re telling yourself. Because if you’re telling yourself a really overly negative story, rarely is that totally accurate that it’s all bad. Even my degree is not wasted, it’s not somehow unusable. No. If anything, I’m thrilled I got that degree.

And is this how I pictured using it? No. Not doing coaching and training, but it’s really important we bring that rational counterstatement instead of, “Wow, I really stunk at that presentation.” It’s kind of like, “You know what, I usually do a pretty good job at presentations. I left two or three items out this last time, but I’m going to take that and I’m going to learn from it.” A very different way of self-coaching through the challenges that come up for all of us.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, any other examples of transformations or key benefits that you’ve seen become unlocked for folks when they’re able to upgrade their confidence?

Selena Rezvani
Yeah, I think one I have to share because it relates to this book, and it’s really about dealing with rejections and fails. And at the same time, it’s about listening to some of the spark of your best ideas. The book Quick Confidence actually came from a newsletter I started during the pandemic on confidence with the same name Quick Confidence.

And I talked myself out of writing that, Pete, at least five different times writing this newsletter, thinking, “Is it too fluffy? Does this make business sense?” really second-guessing it. And yet there is a part of me that wanted to share with people this little fortifier of confidence each week. And I wanted, too.

And when I finally launched the thing, it was the first thing in my life that ever went viral. And 100,000 followers and subscribers strong today, and the beauty of it is it really became a forum and an exchange, not just a letter each week but a place where people shared what confidence swings they were taking in their lives. And that’s what, ultimately, led to the book.

But, again, even that process wasn’t like, “Okay, no more doubts, no more closed doors.” There was 12 rejections over a year in terms of the book, and people saying, “Oh, I like that. I don’t know.” So, I think proof that I may be the teacher in some cases, but I’m always the learner, too, and what a humbling thing to go through many fails, rejections, but to really want to trust that spark of your best ideas, and say, “You know what, there’s something here, and I need to go back and ask another time.” And then that’s actually how the book got greenlit was asking a no to consider it one more time.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s cool and beautiful in terms of what is possible when you are able emotionally to endure many rejections. I wrote a book in college, The Student Leader’s Field Guide, and it didn’t really ever do that well, but I remember I went through that process. This was back in the day with paper, making a one-page query letter to many, many publishers and agents, because that’s what the books told me to do.

And then I had the experience of receiving, literally, dozens of letters back, telling me no, again and again and again. And it felt almost like it was nourishing me or fortifying me in terms of having the experience of going to the mailbox, like, “Oh, I got three letters and they all say no,” like day after day after day.

And, ultimately, I did get one offer but I thought, “You know what, if I just self-publish, it wouldn’t be that different than what you’re bringing to the table.” So, yeah, I learned some things and it is powerful when you’re able to just go after it and not be harmed by rejections over and over again, like, geez, so many things become possible.

Selena Rezvani
Yes. And do you feel like that experience, for you, kind of thickened your skin in a good way for the future?

Pete Mockaitis
Absolutely. I think it unlocked for me the ability to pursue something when the odds were low, the odds that any one given person will say yes are well below 50%, maybe like 1% or 2% for me. And then I’m able to sort of go in, eyes wide open, with a number of entrepreneurial things, like, “There’s about a 30% chance this thing is actually going to work, and I’m going to go do it.”

And that’s cool, as opposed to, “Okay, I guess, well, I should scrap that and try something better.” It’s like, well, even looking at the data associate venture capitalist and their success rates, most of them don’t work out, and that’s okay to be able to embark on a whole universe of opportunities where the odds are against you, and be okay with it is really cool.

Selena Rezvani
And how many people can say that? That’s not something you hear very often, “I wrote a book in college.” Like, that’s an amazing thing you have to show for that unpredictable kind of rocky road, so kudos to you.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, thank you. So, let’s dig in. We talked about three things: mindsets/beliefs, body language, and interactions. The book is called Quick Confidence so why don’t we start with what’s the quickest thing we can do to get a confidence boost?

Selena Rezvani
Well, I love sharing this one, and I think you’ll like it, too, Pete. It’s called dog code. And this is something, if you’re feeling a little rusty from the pandemic, an isolation maybe, that can help you with your social confidence, specifically. And so, if you think about when you go to somebody’s house, and there’s a dog there, they don’t sit in the corner and overthink it in terms of coming up to you. They don’t talk it over with a friend first. They simply come right up to you and initiate contact.

And, in a similar way, I think we can get a huge confidence boost when we make that the standard, when we make that a challenge to ourselves, that if I see somebody I’d like to say hello to, I’m going to be the first. I’m going to use dog code. I’m not going to say, “Well, gee, I wish they would come up to me, or maybe later in the party, I’ll see them in the kitchen.” But to make it that practice, that habit to go up to others and be the first. And it’s pretty liberating, it’s pretty amazing what can happen when you sidestep that overthinking process, and make this a habit in your life. You’re suddenly doing it automatically.

Pete Mockaitis
I like that notion a lot. Sidestepping the overthinking. The dog doesn’t think, it just goes. And so, likewise, I’m trying to put myself in that situation and think of the thoughts I’m having, it’s sort of like, “Oh, this is sort of like an awkward angle, or, I don’t know, he seems like he’s doing something. He’s already talking to someone else.”

There’s any number of thoughts, and it’s sort of hard to introduce yourself terribly in terms of, like, “If I wait for the perfect moment that’s somehow going to improve.” Other than flagrantly interrupting them or someone else, “Hi, I’m Pete,” probably I’m going to be fine. Just almost no matter what you do within normal reasonable behaviors.

Selena Rezvani
I agree with you. And I think some people will get ahead and say to me, “Yeah, but what happens after that once I get there?” And I think it’s an okay goal to break the seal, to warmly say hello, and let the connection be what it is. I don’t think it’s necessarily on you as the initiator to have to carry the entire thing. But I think it can do a lot, and people will remember you when you are the first.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s good. Sometimes when I’m in those situations, I like to be on the prowl for folks who are, they’re not really in the groove yet, like they’re off to the side, they’re looking at their phone, they’re sort of staring off in space, and it’s sort of like this is primetime. Because if someone is in a social environment and they’re on their phone, unless they look like totally riveted, or they’re speaking on their phone, that usually means they’re open for business, they’re ready to be chatting and would probably prefer to be speaking to you than looking at Instagram or whatever they’re up to there.

Selena Rezvani
And what an inclusive way to approach it, noticing maybe who is feeling a little bit on the rim or doesn’t have a conversation partner. I think that’s a really great way to use dog code and put it in action.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. So, we got three bits: mindsets/beliefs, body language, interactions. Can we talk through each of them?

Selena Rezvani
Yes. So, we just touched a little bit on interaction with dog code, but another one that I’m asked about a lot in confidence or executive presence trainings is around dealing with intimidating people and finding the confidence to manage that. And so, one of the mindset shifts I like to ask people to make is to really make a point to interact with the person not the power.

So, not Jenny, the CMO of a Fortune 50 company, but Jenny, the flesh and blood human who is probably potentially a sister, a friend, a student from college that somebody knows, and to really approach that person more peer-to-peer, reminding yourself that you can be respectful of them and maybe their power, their title, their status, without playing small yourself. And I think that’s an important distinction to make.

You can even try this exercise I do sometimes I’ve certainly done, called just like me. And you think specifically about ways this person is just like you, even if they seem like the Queen of Sheba to you, and you feel like you have nothing in common. You might say to yourself, “This person has felt discouraged just like me,” or, “This person has wanted to make a good first impression just like me,” or has been full of hope for a particular dream just like me, wish they could have 20 more minutes in bed this morning, just like me.

And so, we’re not stuck in this power differential that can often like seep our powers. We play into that. If we kind of say, like, “Oh, Pete, I know you’re so busy so let me just hurry up and speak to you really fast and get my words out as quickly as possible.” Or, if I over-thank you constantly, “Thank you for meeting with me today,” and then at the end, “Thank you again for taking the time out of your busy schedule.” Sometimes we do these things, these fawning actions that actually seep our power. And so, it’s not needed even if you’re dealing with the most intimidating figure. Treat them with respect but don’t shrink yourself.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s so good. I remember the first time, I was in consulting, and a real-life CEO was going to be in a meeting and I was going to be there, I was like, “Oh, my gosh, I’ve read about these mythical creature CEOs, and there’s going to be one.” I don’t know if I thought he would glow or something, but when we were actually there in the meeting, he just asked very normal questions that any normal person might ask during a meeting, like, “Oh, does that number include the benefits or just the salaries?” And I was like, “That’s what I would want to know. Wow!”

Selena Rezvani
Yes.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, yeah, they’re normal people, and, just like me, it’s a great point. What’s the expression, “Oh, they put the pants on one leg at a time.” I was like, “Okay, that’s true.” But, more personally, or to the point, they have many experiences of just common humanity that we all have. They get hungry. They get thirsty. They have to go to the bathroom. They get bored. They want to be sleeping some more. Sure.

Selena Rezvani
Yeah, you’re absolutely right. And what’s helped me stop doing some of that fawning and overthinking and shrinking myself is even realizing it may be sending the wrong message. It may be telling them, like, in fact, you did do something extraordinary when that may not be the true. We’re just collaborating. We’re both here because we’re trying to get our work done today and get a certain outcome. So, it’s a freeing notion to realize you can bring that egalitarian mindset and preserve your own confidence.

Pete Mockaitis
Let’s talk a little bit more about mindsets and beliefs. I supposed you mentioned social confidence as one, some category of confidence. And I’m curious, are there any mindsets or beliefs that are globally super useful in giving a confidence upgrade that you’ve found?

Selena Rezvani
Yeah, I think one in particular is affirming yourself with specific mantras that really speak to your insecurities. So, I don’t recommend necessarily using general platitudes. I don’t find they work for me, saying, “I am peace,” or something. If it works for somebody else, that’s fantastic. But I think what is more powerful is to really consider your specific insecurities.

If maybe you’re in a job interview and you’re questioning your place there, you’re feeling uncomfortable, “This bigshot environment, I’m not sure I belong.” You might say things to yourself, like, “I earned my place here,” or, “I belong here. I 400% belong here.” Sometimes people will tell me it’s not the anticipated path that makes them nervous; it’s making mistakes.

So, if making a mistake was your concern, saying the wrong thing, you might tell yourself something like, “If I take a wrong turn, I word something oddly in the interview, I can right myself.” Just like a cat has righting reflexes, we can do the same. We can land on our feet. We can restate our message in a more eloquent way. And so, I think there’s wonderful things we can do to reassure ourselves that are more pointed and meaningful than anyone else’s outside validation.

Pete Mockaitis
That is so powerful. And I’m reminded of that, when you said about self-correcting, we interviewed Amy Edmondson, and she endorsed your book as well, so I think she’s fantastic. I just thought this was amazing, she said about having a cheerful recognition that you’re a fallible human being in a fast-paced uncertain ambiguous world.

And, for me, that was huge in terms of reducing some pressure. I guess I just self-impose pressure to get it right, to well-perform, to nail it, crush it, win, and all sorts of things, like, “And if I don’t, then I’m bad or I screwed up.” It’s that notion, like, that’s just the reality for all of us here. And, thus, the implication is, “Well, of course, we are naturally going to make some mistakes some of the time, and that is normal and to be expected of all of us.” And so, that reduces a lot of the pressure, the intensity, that which could shake my confidence.

Selena Rezvani
Yes. And what a living legend Amy Edmondson is, and her contributions are just amazing. And I think that’s a beautiful quote. I’m not surprised that stays with you.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, talk to us a little bit about body language now.

Selena Rezvani
Sure. So, I think we’ve all had situations where we felt less than confident. Let’s say, in a networking situation, for example, I can remember one in my own life where I was so excited to go there. It was many leaders I admired. And for whatever reason, at this event, I just couldn’t break into those little circles of people who are already formed.

I remember kind of inserting myself in one duo, saying hello, and I remember them saying, “Do you mind if we just go back to talking to each other?” And, ugh, it was such a strange and uncomfortable situation. And maybe we’ve all been there in some way or some form. In moments like that, it’s very easy to want to shrink our body language, to maybe go inhabit the corner of the room, maybe make kind of furtive eye contact, low talk if we are going to engage with anybody, and make ourselves small.

And I really encourage people to do the opposite in moments like this, even if it feels a little counterintuitive to do, to kind of big-up your body language, to be conspicuous, celebrate what your mama gave you. And you can do that kind of even thinking from floor to ceiling. You can stand with your feet just a little more than shoulder width apart. I call this surfer stance. And you’re really claiming your full bubble of space when you do this.

And you want to make a point to stand tall. You want to try to brush the ceiling with the top of your head, to really stand tall. And you want to be able to gesture freely. Often, when we’re feeling uncomfortable and nervous, we stand with our arms kind of glued to our ribcage, we don’t motion, and yet gesturing is something that helps us be seen as more engaging and warmer.

So, I think a lot of these send a powerful message to ourselves that, in fact, we do belong and we’re not going to shrink from this situation even if we don’t get some of those cues, some of that validation we’d like.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s good. That’s good. This sounds a little bit like the power posing of Amy Cuddy, and I’ve dug into that research, and I understand there are some controversies but much of it was successfully replicated and in terms of self-reports, but the cortisol find was sometimes harder to replicate. But it sounds like what you found is, sure enough, this idea of expansive body postures gets it done.

Selena Rezvani
It gets it done. And if you’re even a remote worker who finds you’re sitting a lot of the time, you can even apply it to that situation. Maybe you are interviewing for a job seated, or maybe you’re in a Zoom situation, making a big pitch or proposal. Making a point not to sit tentatively at the edge of your chair, which can make you look uncertain or like you’re about to bolt out of the room, but to really make a point to envelope your full chair, to push your back all the way to the back cushion, to use the armrest, to really spread out. It makes you feel different. That’s what’s neat.

Pete Mockaitis
What this brings to mind, for me, is Star Trek in terms of like when the captain sits down on the chair, it’s the captain’s chair, and he or she owns that entirety of the chair. And it’s interesting how you would think of a seated position can seem more passive or less in command, and yet we’ve got many series and many episodes of people demonstrating exactly how you sit in a chair like a boss.

Selena Rezvani
That’s right. That’s right. Because many of us have probably done it the other way where you are kind of like folded up very neatly in the center of the chair, like taking up as little space as possible. Not exactly empowering. I don’t think that really summons your boldness, your best ideas. Very different when you claim your space.

Pete Mockaitis
And you can just yell, “Damage report” to the things going on in the meeting, it’s like, “Well, this guy is in charge and a little out there.”

Selena Rezvani
Yeah, it worked on Star Trek, why can’t it work here?

Pete Mockaitis
All right, Selena. Well, tell us, do you have any more quick tips, tactics, that are just swell we should know about before we hear about your favorite things?

Selena Rezvani
Yeah, I think one more important one for all of us to know is the most confident people, they keep the promises they make to themselves. And it means something when we make a promise or a commitment and we follow through on it. And, boy, does it build our sense of confidence and esteem, and our ability to say, “I can do this again in the future.”

So, realize, if you’re somebody who makes promises to yourself, and you break them, this could be hurting your confidence, this could be getting in the way of you having lasting confidence that you can tap at any time. And some of the ways I recommend people handle that is to shrink some of the commitments, so the promises they make to themselves so that they’re more doable and manageable.

And, by the way, you get to feel the feel-good feelings of achieving a goal when you shrink the size of it. Or, to just do it less often, to not do the, “I’m going to start the diet on Monday,” or, “I’m going to try to work out at 4:00 p.m.,” but to think about doing that less often. Because if you continue to do it, you kind of start to see yourself like that flaky coworker that you can’t rely on, who usually doesn’t follow through on what they say.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Thank you. Now could you share a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Selena Rezvani
One of my favorite quotes is, “First you seem powerful in your eyes, then you seem powerful in other people’s eyes.”

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite study or experiment or bit of research?

Selena Rezvani
Yeah, one of the pieces of research I’ve been sharing a lot lately has to do with the crisis of confidence, particularly for younger people. Over half of young people agree that they’ve lost self-confidence as a result of the pandemic, and that’s even worse for individuals for lower income backgrounds. So, I think social isolation, job uncertainty, safety risks, health risks, it’s done a number for a lot of us on our ability to feel successful and confident. And I think, as important as it is to build our own self-confidence, we can also make a point to extend this to other people, to give others little micro validations that help them feel capable.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite book?

Selena Rezvani
I just finished reading a book called One Bold Move a Day by Shanna Hocking, and I really enjoyed it.

Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite tool, something you use to be awesome at your job?

Selena Rezvani
Actually, it’s an anti-tool and I hope that’s okay.

Pete Mockaitis
Please.

Selena Rezvani
But it’s been running without any tool. I’m such a multitasker that normally I like to listen to something at the same time. But you know what, I found resisting that urge and letting myself just have the open canvas. The thinking time has been not only rejuvenating but led to some of my best ideas.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And a favorite habit?

Selena Rezvani
I wake up 10 minutes before the rest of my family, and I have coffee by myself in peace before dogs, cats, my twin children, my husband get up. And that little period of solitude, with my warm cup of coffee while the birds chirp, is everything.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, now I’m curious, how do you wake up 10 minutes before your husband? If there’s an alarm, would that not wake up both of you?

Selena Rezvani
Good point. He has a way of managing through. Actually, he knows it’s a habit. We’ve got our lockstep system down by now.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And is there a key nugget you share that really seems to connect and resonate with folks; they quote it back to you often?

Selena Rezvani
I think what I’d say is confidence doesn’t have to be loud. Let’s reframe confidence not as being effortlessly cool or perfect or completely self-reliant, but as somebody who’s not afraid to ask for help, somebody who has a learning growth mindset, somebody who gives confidence to other people.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Selena Rezvani
Well, I create new content daily for LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram so I hope you’ll check those out, and my book Quick Confidence.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks looking to be awesome at their jobs?

Selena Rezvani
Yes. And that is if any of you kind of suffer with the overthinking that we’ve been talking about as a thread in this conversation, one thing you can try is to ask your body to do what your mind won’t. So, to simplify that task in front of you that you may be overthinking, you might say something like, “Hands, I want you to type up the application and hit Submit.” Or, at an event, maybe you’re hesitating, you might say, “All right, legs, walk over to John and introduce yourself now.” And it’s, again, a way to sidestep some of that overthinking that can be so empowering.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, I like that so much. And what it does further is a lot of times I think I’ll feel resistant, like, “Oh, it just seems too hard or too much for me right now.” It’s like, well, we’d really segment it to, like, “This one specific body part is doing one specific thing that doesn’t require any mental intervention whatsoever.” It just seems a little bit more doable, like, “Okay, my legs are going to be doing that. So, all right.”

Selena Rezvani
Exactly. Right. Right. Your body is there, kind of waiting to be a faithful service. Why not use it, especially when your brains may be getting in the way?

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Selena, thank you. This has been a lot of fun. I wish you much luck and confidence.

Selena Rezvani
Thank you so much, Pete.