131: The Art of Public Speaking with Dr. Ray Hull…PLUS How Fast Are You Talking?!

Pete Mockaitis
Ray, thanks so much for joining us here on the How to be Awesome at Your Job podcast.

Ray Hull
Well, it’s good to be here.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, you have quite an array of experience that I thought at first it might be fun if you could break the ice a little bit and tell us a bit about some of your theatrical experience and how that’s carried over into your work with communication?

Ray Hull
Well, my theatrical experience began when I was five years old and the part that I was chosen for – did not audition for – was Papa Bear in the Three Bears in my kindergarten class.

Pete Mockaitis
And so it begins.

Ray Hull
Oh, yes. And I brought the house down. It was just wonderful, wonderful performance. Really, I have been in many of the Shakespearean plays, I was Iago in Othello, I was Hamlet in Hamlet, I even won the Oscar for the Best Actor my freshman year in college at Ottawa University. I loved the theater. I loved being on stage or I loved being backstage too, but I love being on stage. I tell my audiences that I if you give me a spotlight, a stage and a good microphone, I’m a happy boy.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s good. Well, your microphone sounds pretty good here today.

Ray Hull
For most of my life I was a severe stutterer. I couldn’t say my name. I couldn’t say hello on the telephone. I would be embarrassed in innumerable times as I tried to ask a young lady out on a date when I was in high school, and she would look at me with this sort of an understanding look that made me feel awful.
On stage, I was told by a director at one time that I could have the part, the lead in a play that I really wanted to be the lead in if I promised not to stutter. And that’s one of the worst things that you can tell a stutterer because it’s like saying, “In five minutes we’re going to ask you your name,” and by that time you have fallen apart and are groveling on the floor trying to get the first sound out. I think that those years of severe stuttering has given me an outlook on the process of human communication that is unique. And I’ll tell you, sometime how I stopped stuttering.

Pete Mockaitis
Good. So, now tell us, you also worked with many folks who have communication disorders and you’re sort of one of the kind of foremost authorities on that topic. I’d like to get your perspective on your own stuttering experience and working with those who have some of these communication disorders has illuminated what’s going on in the brain when it comes to communicating well or not so well.

Ray Hull
That’s a really tough question. Jim Stovall and I are in the process of writing another book for the series. It’s called The Art of Learning, and I’ve been working on a chapter called The Neuroscience of Communication. I have dissected enumerable brains and brain stems from birth every decade up to age 90, looking at the aging process and the effect of aging on our brain.
But when you consider the fact that our brain consists of somewhere around 100 billion nerve cells where there’s actually storage and processing cells that interact with each other by way of approximately one quadrillion, if you can imagine that number, transmitting connectors or synapses that interconnect each of those neurons or each of those brain cells. The fact that the whole system works and the fact that we can communicate is really amazing.
And when you consider the fact that when we communicate the intricacy of each of the sequences of what happens to us as we are initiating communication, for example, our diaphragm has to move up in a pulsing manner in order to bring air through our vocal folds, but at the same time, the same instance, the same milliseconds, we have to bring our vocal folds together so that we could utter a sound.
And as we utter a sound, then at the same instance our tongue, our soft palate, our mandible or jaw, everything has to be working in sequence to allow for us to utter the first sound of the first word that we are wanting to say. And the fact that that has to happen in exact sequence of movements is, to me, mind-boggling.
As we look at that sequence and the complexity of that whole system it’s a wonder that we can communicate because at exactly the same moment our brain has to call up the words that we intend to say and then our vocal mechanism, our larynx and our vocal folds and our tongue and soft palate, and lips and all that it takes to articulate sounds have to be moving in order to utter those words.
When a person has a stroke, for example, that system is interrupted so that the individual, perhaps, will not be able to say the words that they would like to say. A stutterer, as I was, is unable to call up the movements in sequence so that we can utter the first sound, and then perhaps after uttering the first sound there are repetitions and repetitions and more repetitions that just do not allow us to utter the words that we would like to.
Our vocal mechanism, our larynx is a very fragile system and we can abuse it.

Pete Mockaitis
Understood. Well, so now I’d love to sort of zoom into some of the practical tidbits. So, you’ve co-authored the book The Art of Presentation, and I’d love to hear, in your experience as you’ve been promoting it and sharing it with people, what have they responded to in terms of saying, “Wow, that is a brilliant suggestion”? What should we do to boost our game when it comes to the art of presentation?

Ray Hull
Oh, I need to tell you something. Received an email this morning that Amway is using this book, The Art of Presentation and the book The Art of Communication as their Books of the Month Club winners.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, congratulations.

Ray Hull
And are recommended for reading for all of their Amway salespeople. So I thought that was interesting. The most frequent comment that I have received is that people fear public speaking. Of all their fears, you know, the fear of heights, the fear of falling, airline crashes, snakes, spiders, even death, the greatest of their fears is public speaking. And in reading this book on The Art of Presentation they have tended to feel as though they are not fearing this event that they may be getting ready for as much they did before.
Because I think that in the first chapter of the book The Art of Presentation where I say, “You are the artist and the performer. The performance that you create, the scenery, the picture that you evoke with your words touching the heart and soul of those who receive it is your audience.” And I think that people have come to terms with their own fears by reading that small amount of information, where I say that it is an art form that it comes from you, an individual who possesses your own individual style.
You don’t have to be someone else. You don’t have to emulate anyone. You create the stage, the scenery and the characters as you envision them not as someone else would envision them. And I think that gives them the courage that, “What I’m doing or what I’m getting ready for,” in terms of preparing for a presentation that they made be looking forward or not looking forward to presenting that this is something that is them, that is theirs, their own individual identity. And so just have fun with it.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, I see. That’s very helpful right there. So, by sort of not trying to measure up and compare the performance to somebody else, and you’re just sort of doing your natural artistic expression thing, that just sort of creates a little bit of a calm and liberation and ability to just go there naturally.

Ray Hull
That’s right. Just go and do your own thing and have fun. So we don’t want our performance to be a reckless one, to show off or to stage-act. And I think people feel sometimes as though they have to become an actor or an actress. The best presenters, the best public speakers are those who present themselves as themselves. They speak to the audience in a conversational way. They do not have to perform. They do not have to raise their voice and pound the lectern. They are to simply talk to their audience.
And I tell them, “Instead of standing behind a lectern, walk to the front, toward the front of the stage and pick out some people in the audience you would like to talk to. And as you are talking to them it appears to the others that you’re speaking to all of them, but just to speak in a conversational casual way and people will respect you and they will like your presentation. You don’t have to be afraid of it.”

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, that’s great to hear. And so I’d also love to hear, so that’s one tip there when it comes to, “Hey, don’t speak behind the lectern. Go ahead and step out for a minute.” What are some other things you observed that are sort of mistakes or practices you’d recommend just avoiding?

Ray Hull
Oh, boy, that’s a tough one. I think probably beginning a presentation is a hard one for many people. They tell me, or they ask me, “How do I know how to begin? What do I do? How do I begin a presentation so that I know that I’m doing it correctly? How do I know I’m preparing my presentation so it’ll be something that people will want to hear about?”
And so here’s what I tell them. You need a strong beginning. In the last chapter that I write in the book The Art of Presentation, I talked about the art of making a conclusion to your presentation so that people will remember you. And the first thing that I suggest is to begin your presentation with the ending.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay.

Ray Hull
That’s kind of mind-boggling to think about. But I give an example whereby a speaker who is entering the auditorium where he is to speak says, “You know, I was walking from my car to this auditorium this afternoon, and I noticed a young man sitting on the sidewalk next to this very building. He was asking for money. He was asking for money to buy food. He was a nice-looking man, and I thought, ‘Well, why does he have to beg for food?’ And he confided in me by saying that he continues to look for work but he simply has not been able to find work in this community.”
And that’s a lot better introduction to a presentation because you have grabbed your audience, you’re telling them a story, something that happens to you. Of course not every presentation is going to be waiting for you outside of the building to use as an example but it’s a lot better introduction to a presentation than something like, “Oh, this afternoon I have come to discuss the future of our city.” Well, in about 15 minutes you’re going to hear snoring from the audience.
But that same illustration, whether it’s an illustration that you have seen as you walk into the building, or a quote. But you can conclude the presentation again then by saying that, “We don’t want to continue our city to be one that allows for a young man to sit in front of a building on a sidewalk begging for food. Here’s what we need to do.” And so you can use that beginning as your conclusion also, and then you give the steps that are necessary for correcting, at least your thoughts about correcting that situation.
One of the things that I tell my audiences when I’m doing workshops and presentation on The Art of Communication is to watch out about how you conclude your presentation. The conclusion, for example, without warning the speaker comes to an abrupt stop and says something like, “Well, I think that’s about all I have to say, so I’ll stop there,” and sits down. My question is, “How can a speaker think that she or he has nothing more to say? Didn’t he know?”

Pete Mockaitis
“I think that’s all I have to say,” I hear you.

Ray Hull
Yes. Or the minister who gives the sermon, and then at the end of that hour the final hymn is sung, and the choir is picking up their music, and the congregation is gathering their coats, and he goes out to the congregation and says, “But here’s what I came to tell you today,” and starts another mini-sermon. People have sitting limitations, as I tell my audiences, and we need to respect their sitting limitations.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay.

Ray Hull
Those are just a few of the things that I tell my people when I’m instructing them on the art of communication.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Now, I’m interested there. So when you said open with the conclusion, you’re suggesting that you have the ability to have a sort of bookends kind of wrap continuity there with this story of the person begging, so there’s that, and open with an illustration or quote or something that hooks them as opposed to merely a preview outline. So, that’s good.

Could you tell us then what do you recommend in terms of identifying role models for great speakers? Like, where would you point folks in terms of saying, “This is a person who really has it nailed. Watch carefully what he or she does”?

Ray Hull
That’s really a tough one. There are so many poor speakers that it’s hard sometimes to identify really good ones. I ask my audiences, “Do you remember Walter Cronkite?” Because too many speakers, just last week, our college of health professions had a seminar that was being put on by a well-known speaker. And she was speaking, I’m sure, at a rate of well over 200 words per minute.

Pete Mockaitis
No kidding.

Ray Hull
The audience were becoming very restless because they could only understand perhaps a fraction of what she was saying. She was stumbling over words. She was speaking so rapidly. I refer people to Walter Cronkite, for example, and his manner of speaking. He spoke at a rate of approximately 120 to 124 words per minute.

Our central nervous system can comprehend the words that are being uttered but also when you’re speaking at that rate we begin to articulate all of the sounds of speech. We call them the suprasegmental aspects of speech. Here, I’m talking about the inflectional clues, the pauses, the melody of speech becomes more predominant, pauses become more effective and Walter Cronkite emulated that perfectly.

John F. Kennedy, even though he had a very strong Bostonian dialect, did the same thing. He was the epitome of a very fine public speaker.
President Obama, or our past President Obama, spoke very well, but I wish that I could’ve worked with him because he cut off the last sounds of many of the last words in sentences. And I wish that I could’ve worked with him to correct that. Otherwise, he did quite well. Tom Brokaw, when he was active in news broadcasting, also spoke at a rate of around 120 to 124 words per minute, and people could understand him. People loved to listen to him. They loved to listen to Walter Cronkite. They loved to listen to John F. Kennedy. And I think of the three that I can think of right off the top of my head, those are some of the best.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, that’s so fascinating that 120 words per minute rate. I mean, as we’re speaking right now I’m thinking, “Ray is talking more slowly than most of my podcast guests.” And I believe I recall that a study of some TED Talks ran at about 160-ish words per minute.

Ray Hull
Yes.

Pete Mockaitis
Maybe they’re trying to make the most of their 18 minutes in getting their idea out there. So, what’s your take? I mean, I’m wondering a little bit if a slower rate of speech can sort of put people into maybe just a very cozy, it’s almost like, “Oh, this is soothing. I want to be sleeping right now,” kind of a vibe. What’s your take in terms of rate of speech and variability and the pros and cons there?

Ray Hull
Well, I’ll tell you what, if people cannot understand what you are saying then there’s no reason to be talking. But it depends on how what you are saying is being presented. If you are presenting things or you are vocally animated so that you have the rhythm, the inflection, the melody of speech down then people are going to attend to you.
If what you are saying is intriguing to them, is interesting to them, is attracting their attention then they’re not going to fall asleep on us. And you need to have the ability to interject some humor. You need to have in your repertoire of your vocabulary that you can use twist on words that is going to keep them interested, and if you have in your repertoire stories that you tell that people are interested in, then they’re not going to fall asleep no matter. You don’t want to speak so slowly that you put them to sleep but you should be speaking at a rate that is easily understood.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, good deal. Thank you. Well so, Ray, tell me, is there anything else you want to make sure we cover off before we shift gears and hear about some of your favorite things?

Ray Hull
When I was a severe stutterer, against my public-speaking coach’s wishes, I tried out for men’s oratory in college when I was a senior in college. And for whatever reason, probably lack of competition, I won the local competition.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, great.

Ray Hull
And then I had to go on to the state intercollegiate competition. The University of Kansas, Kansas State University, other universities around the state, and I came from a small college, a small very conservative Church of the Brethren college, and so I came from the smallest representative body at that competition.
And as I drove there to Kansas State University to give my competitive oration I was late because it was snowing, it was a March snowstorm, and I parked at the edge of a field, an open field, at that university, and I asked someone where the building I was supposed to be going to, and they pointed at it and it was across that field. My parents had just bought me a pair of new shoes and I had a new suit on, and I walked across that field.
And by the time I got to the building where I was to give my oration, a 15-minute oration on world peace, it seems as though most oratory competitions have the topic of world peace, but by the time I arrived there I had mud all over my shoes, cuffs of my slacks of my new suit, and I walked into the building and I found the room where the competition was being held, and the last speaker was just finishing his oration. And when he finished I stuck my head in the door and asked them if there were still time for me to give mine, and they conferred and said yes. And then I asked if I could have just a couple of minutes so I could go to the men’s restroom to try to wash off my shoes and the cuffs of my pants, and they allowed me to do that.
And I came back in, after I had done I still had some mud on my shoes and mud on the cuffs of my slacks, that I walked up to the front of the room, thanked them for allowing me to take the time to do that, and I was so concerned about the mud and being late and being lost that I gave my 15-minute oration without stuttering.

Pete Mockaitis
Huh.

Ray Hull
After I finished I said, “Thank you,” and I left the room and walked back across that field and got in my car and drove the 140 miles back to our farm. And later that night I received a call from my forensics coach and he said, “Guess what? You’re now the state champion. You won the state championship for intercollegiate oratory.”

Pete Mockaitis
Nice work.

Ray Hull
And that was really the turning point in my speaking. From that time on I was able to speak with greater clarity and without the stuttering that I had experienced throughout my whole lifetime since I was little up to my young adulthood.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, thank you for sharing that story. That’s good, that the different perspective in terms of what you are conscious of changed everything, and that’s a pretty cool takeaway.

Ray Hull
That just means that anybody can do it.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, now, could you start us off by sharing a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Ray Hull
“A strong beginning is good, but a great ending is even better.” And I think that the unknown author who composed that was probably actually referring to life but I almost immediately related it to public speaking, that a good beginning to our presentations is important but in order to grab the attention of your audience a better ending gives the audience something to remember, to remember you and your message.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, thank you. And how about a favorite tool whether that’s a piece of hardware or software or gadget or product or service, something you find really helpful for being awesome at your job?

Ray Hull
A good microphone.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Yes.

Ray Hull
There were too many instances in which the PA system and the microphone are not such that allow a public speaker to do their very best, to sound as well, as good as they could otherwise. And that’s one thing that I always require even if I’m speaking to an audience of 15 people.
I know. I’m told, “Well, you don’t need a microphone for these people.” Well, yes, I do because I want them to hear every word that I am saying, and even if I have to bring my own PA system I will have one. But that and good lighting are the essentials for a good presentation.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And what would say is the best place to contact you or if folks want to get in touch or learn more about what you’re up to? Where would you point them?

Ray Hull
Well, my email address is a very simple one. So that’s Ray.Hull@Wichita.edu and it can’t get more simple than that.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Right. And do you have a final challenge or call to action for those seeking to be more awesome at their jobs?

Ray Hull
When you’re asked to speak before your colleagues that is one of the most difficult audiences that I can think of because our colleagues know us and we become very vulnerable as we stand before them. But as we are speaking to our colleagues in our business life to forget about them as colleagues, although we cannot forget them as colleagues because they are those with whom we work each day, but to not be afraid, not feel the vulnerability that sometimes we feel when we’re talking to our colleagues. And to speak to them as friends.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Thank you. Well, Ray, I really appreciate you taking the time here. This has been fun to get your insights and perspectives, and I wish you lots of luck.

Ray Hull
Well, thank you very much. It’s been nice talking with you.

Rates of speech:

• Ray Hull: 106 WPM
• Pete Mockaitis: 179 WPM
• Walter Cronkite: 163 WPM
• TED talkers: 133-188 (Al Gore 133; Elizabeth Gilbert at 187)

Speech Samplings:

RAY HULL – Average 106

[Time 2:00 – 3:00 | Words 125]

For most of my life I was a severe stutterer. I couldn’t say my name. I couldn’t say hello on the telephone. I would be embarrassed innumerable times as I tried to ask a young lady out on a date when I was in high school, and she would look at me with this sort of an understanding look that made me feel awful.

On stage, I was told by a director at one time that I could have the part, the lead in a play that I really wanted to be the lead in if I promised not to stutter. And that’s one of the worst things that you can tell a stutterer because it’s like saying, “In five minutes we’re going to ask

[Time 4:25 – 5:25 | Words 91]

That’s a really tough question. Jim Stovall and I are in the process of writing another book for the series. It’s called The Art of Learning, and I’ve been working on a chapter called The Neuroscience of Communication. I have dissected enumerable brains and brain stems from birth every decade up through age 90, looking at the aging process and the effect of aging on our brain.

But when you consider the fact that our brain consists of somewhere around 100 billion nerve cells where there’s actually storage and processing cells

[Time 5:26 – 6:26 | Words 103]

that interact with each other by way of approximately one quadrillion, if you can imagine that number, transmitting connectors or synapses that interconnect each of those neurons or each of those brain cells. The fact that the whole system works and the fact that we can communicate is really amazing.

And when you consider the fact that when we communicate the intricacy of each of the sequences of what happens to us as we are initiating communication, for example, our diaphragm has to move up in a pulsing manner in order to bring air through our vocal folds, but at the same time,

[Time 6:27 – 7:27 | Words 97]

the same instance, the same milliseconds, we have to bring our vocal folds together so that we could utter a sound.

And as we utter a sound, then at the same instance our tongue, our soft palate, our mandible or jaw, everything has to be working in sequence to allow for us to utter the first sound of the first word that we are wanting to say. And the fact that that has to happen in exact sequence of movements is, to me, mind-boggling. As we look at that sequence and the complexity of that whole system.

PETE MOCKAITIS – Average 179

Interviewing Bhoopathi Rapolu [Time 00:11 – 00:39 (28 seconds*) | Words 82]

Oh, yes. Well, you have a fascinating area of expertise and your book and so I’m so curious to dig into it. It reminds me a little bit of Terminator or The Matrix here where the future of work may be going in some ways. So, maybe you could open us up by sharing kind of your own personal struggle amidst what you’re calling the second machine age and how that led you to write your book here The Race for Work.

*for a full minute it would be 82 multiplied by 2.14 which is 175

Interviewing Ray Hull [Time 00:08 – 00:22 (14 seconds*) | Words 47]

Well, you have quite an array of experience that I thought at first it might be fun if you could break the ice a little bit and tell us a bit about some of your theatrical experience and how that’s carried over into your work with communication.

*For a full minute it would be 47 multiplied by 4.3 which is 202

InterviewingBen Bratt [Time 00:08 – 00:22 (14 seconds*) | Words 46]

Oh, I’m so excited to dig into your wisdom here, but first I’d like to have a blast from the past if we could. Can you tell us what does a cryptologic technician in the Navy do? Is it as cool as The Imitation Game movie?

*For a full minute it would be 46 multiplied by 4.3 which is 198

Interviewing Melanie Greenberg [Time 02:08 – 02:41 (31 seconds*) | Words 73]

So, I’d love to talk about stress here. You’ve got this fresh book out The Stress-Proof Brain and you’ve got a host of credentials and writing under your belt in the universe of psychology and positive psychology and all the good stuff. So, I’m curious to hear what made you choose the emotional response to stress as a key topic for you to really dig your energies into and write a full book?

*For a full minute it would be 73 multiplied by 1.9 which is 139

WALTER CRONKITE – Average 163

[Time 3:13 – 4:13 – Words 148]

Labor Secretary Donovan told a congressional hearing today that budget cuts for public job programs would increase unemployment from the present 7.3% to 7.5%. Donovan defended the slash is not particularly humane but necessary for the economy.

Two government reports today showed improvements in key segments of the economy but the changes were too slight to cause much optimism. The Labor Department said that wholesale prices rose eight-tenths of 1% in February down one-tenth of 1% from January’s increase. Our February’s figures still works out to an annual inflation rate of about 10% and the department said that unemployment dropped one-tenth of 1% to 7.3% last month, although teenage joblessness rose to 19.3%.

The governors of eight major auto industry States met with President Reagan today to discuss the plight of their constituents. The governors urge the President to negotiate with Japan on voluntary limit on auto exports

[Time 23:37 – 24:37 | Words 161]

The Polish government today continued its crackdown on dissidents charging four of them seeking the violent overthrow of the country, an offense that could mean death. Meanwhile, Poland’s largest independent union, Solidarity, reacted defiantly to Soviet orders of the labor rebellion be curtailed. Union leader like Lech Walesa said that, “No one can accuse us of being cowards,” pledged to continue efforts to oust dishonest government officials. Walesa has been trying to keep labor peace traveling around the country to resolve local disputes before they become national issues.

In Kabul Afghanistan, a gunman who, for five days, have been holding a hijacked Pakistani plane with 116 persons aboard, including six Americans, shot one of the hostages today and threw him onto the runway. The victim, a Pakistani diplomat, died in a Kabul hospital two hours later. The three hijackers gave Pakistan until tomorrow morning to meet their demands that about 90 of their friends and relatives be released from Pakistani jails.

[Time 26:15 – 27:15 | Words 179]

This is my last broadcast as the anchorman for CBS Evening News. For me it’s a moment for which I long planned but which, nevertheless, comes with some sadness. For almost two decades, after all we’ve been meeting like this in the evenings and I’ll miss that. But those who have made anything of this departure, I’m afraid have made too much.

This is but a transition, a passing of the baton. A great broadcaster and gentlemen, Doug Edwards, preceded me in this job, and another, Dan Rather, will follow. In any way, the person who sits here is but the most conspicuous member of a superb team of journalists, writers, reporters, editors, producers and none of that will change. Furthermore, I’m not even going away. I’ll be back from time to time with special news reports and documentaries, and beginning in June, every week, with our Science Program Universe.

Old anchorman, you see, don’t fade away, they just keep coming back for more. And that’s the way it is. Starting March 6, 1981, I’ll be away on assignment