178: How to Lead Without Authority with Dodie Gomer

Pete Mockaitis
Dodie, thanks so much for joining us here on the How to be Awesome at Your Job podcast.

Dodie Gomer
Thanks for having me, Pete.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I am looking forward to digging into your wisdom. And first I want to hear a little bit more – you took a ride in an autonomous car years and years ago, before it was as cool and common as it is today. What’s the backstory there?

Dodie Gomer
I was the HR manager for basically our R&D division of Caterpillar, it’s all engineers. And DARPA was holding a competition and they brought these autonomous vehicles in the parking lot and my husband, who also works at Cat, we put our hands up, we said, “Sure, we’ll go on a ride.” Now, I have a lot of nieces and nephews so I’ve been in the backseat of new drivers. So I have a high respect for engineers, I really do, and what they’re capable of. And this was actually much more comfortable than being in the car with a 15-year-old.

Pete Mockaitis
Alright. High praise. And how long ago was this?

Dodie Gomer
It was more than 10 years ago.

Pete Mockaitis
That is wild. Well, they’re coming up. I’m really looking forward to the day, allegedly in three years, Audi will release its first autonomous vehicle to the public. And I just think that’d be super convenient to be driven around all the time by a robot.

Dodie Gomer
Right, they say that children under the age of three will not be taking drivers ed. So yeah, I don’t think that’s bad.

Pete Mockaitis
We get past those awkward periods, and so… Speaking of young people, I want to get your take – you have a wealth of knowledge when it comes to leading without authority, which is often common among folks in maybe the first decade of their careers, or maybe sometimes their whole careers, in terms of, you’ve got to make something happen, and you are committed or you own the result but you maybe don’t own the resources, the power to command and to direct and supervise the folks who do the stuff necessary to get it done. I think that’s a common challenge with many maybe project-managery roles and software and other industries. And you’ve got some perspective on this. Maybe to open us up, tell us how do you think about, in general, leading without authority?

Dodie Gomer
Well, I really do believe there is only a small population that gets the privilege of going off to some leadership camp or leadership program. But the reality is, no matter if you’re in your phase of your career, or the second or third phase of your career, there are things that you have to do and you have to ask other people to get things done to a certain level of standard.

So almost every profession has a standard. Engineering has their standards, HR has, and a lot of it is driven by compliance. Accounting has accounting standards. And so here you are; you might be in the first phase of your career, you might have been working for five years and you’re going to have to try to get people to get something done according to the standard, but you have no stripes – you’re not their supervisor, you’re not their manager; in fact you’re the junior in that role.

And so I liked the words that you used when you opened this up and it was, “You own your job.” So before we get to the tools, do a level set and have that honest conversation with yourself – you own the job, so own it and behave like you own it, but also have a perspective of, “I’m going to be the solution for the issues that surface.”

So you have to understand the business, you have to understand your role. You don’t want to keep your head in just the Wall Street Journal. I mean you have to know what are the problems for your role, for your division, your department, and maybe for your business or maybe your industry. You have to have some understanding. So before we get to the tools, you’ve got to own your job and you have the perspective of, “I’m going to be the solution or I’ll help find a solution to some of the issues that surface.”

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, that makes great sense. So we’ve got that first perspective, that bedrock conviction, that’s there. And then what?

Dodie Gomer
I think one of the strongest tools that you can start practicing today is setting a clear vision. And when you hear that, it sounds like such a buzzword. And it’s like, “Isn’t that for executives? Don’t executives set the vision statement and the mission statement at a very strategic level – a global view, a global footprint?” Well actually, every individual in every role can become really good at setting a vision. And it’s amazing when you do that, people want to follow you.

And it’s in the simple things – example, you’re the one that’s going to get the rental car to take three or four colleagues on a road trip for a 3-hour drive, and it’s just a very simple thing that you say, “Okay, so here’s how this is going to work: We’re going to meet at 7:00, everyone bring your coffee. It’s a 3-hour drive, we’ll make one stop at an hour and a half. We only have this much room for luggage so don’t bring too much.”

And you just say, “And here is how this is going to work.” You lay out a plan. And if you do that verbally or in an email or with a picture, people like clarity. They don’t like to show up and be at the side door while everyone else is at the front door, and there’s no room in the trunk for their belongings. They want clarity and they’ll admire and respect you for having it. So it can be very simple in day-to-day activities. We say, “Okay, here’s how this is going to work.” Or, “Here’s the plan.”

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And what I like about that is the word “vision” really does sound so lofty. As you said, it sounds like that’s something Steve Jobs, Tim Cook, visionary leaders of the most esteemed organizations have. But you’re saying it still counts as vision setting if you’re saying what the game plan is for the rental car.
Dodie Gomer
Let me give you a bigger example on a wider approach. This was an individual that is an environmentalist, had an advanced degree, started with a large company and within a year was assigned to a smaller facility with some environmental health and safety projects. And some of the folks in that facility start elbowing her and teasing her, that they didn’t think her projects were going to get done because of the budget, because they didn’t impact the bottom line. She was certainly the junior person. And age usually doesn’t matter but I’m telling you, she hadn’t reached her 24^th birthday yet. And there were a lot of senior people in this facility.

And she kept her eye on the ball, she owned the job, she knew what had to be done and she kept putting the plans together for some highly complex projects. And by the way, the majority of the projects were for the land around the facility, like for a new access road, some drainage, things environmental like that. Well, so here comes her opportunity – she is asked to get the company van ready and on Friday pick up some senior leaders, including a vice president, and bring them to the facility for this big meeting. And by the way, if she wanted, she could drive them around the perimeter of the facility and showcase one of her environmental projects.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, nice.

Dodie Gomer
Well, she had been trained, and not just in technical, but she was trained to set a good vision. And by the way, this is in Microsoft Word – you don’t have to go spend money on this – she created a trifold brochure, and she downloaded Google Maps, she customized and put specifically a key to terms where all of her projects were, and then this “Here’s why” statement.

So when she picked them up in the van, she brought them to the facility, she drove them around, handed them a brochure, and from a downward view they could picture the parameter of the building and she told him the importance of each one of her projects, like “Here’s why it’s important to have an access road so people that are transporting chemicals…” And that is setting a very clear vision. And the vice president I believe said, “I can’t imagine anyone not getting a budget for all these projects.” Right? And she’s not a senior employee; she’s very new, and she set a very clear vision. Now, I think those are good examples of vision, but the other thing that she maintained was composure.

Pete Mockaitis
Tell me more.

Dodie Gomer
Yes, she had a steadiness to her voice and she made sure that politically she wasn’t stepping… There was no complaining, there was no whining, like, “Yeah, well, I don’t know if I’ll ever get these approved.” There were no editorials; the tone wasn’t there. She simply presented projects with a brochure. She kept it simple, she kept it high level. Anyone would be interested in what she had to say.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, thank you. And composure, Dodie, I know is one of your signature areas of expertise, so I’d like to touch on that for a moment, in terms of why is it important and how can we project it?

Dodie Gomer
In one word, credibility.

Pete Mockaitis
Alright.

Dodie Gomer
And I did a workshop on composure for some University of Illinois students, and a couple of them were pre-med. So I just asked them – I said, “You tell all of us, how long does it take you from a physiological perspective to settle down after somebody has rattled you?” So just from a physiological perspective. And so if you’re in a meeting or you’re in the workplace and somebody does an attack – a verbal attack – and you’re angry about it… And the way the pre-med students described it, at a minimum it would take 45 minutes, because what’s happening is the flight or fight mechanism, the way you’re designed. So all the blood is going to your legs so you could run, or the blood and all your energy is going to your arms so you can fight. Therefore you don’t really have much going on up in your brain, so you can’t be rational.

So if you think about it physiologically, you’re not rational, then you’ve got to start practicing – this sounds crazy – but start practicing gaining composure quickly, shortening that timeframe. And there’s a number ways to do it, but certainly things irritate you at least once a week, maybe once a day. And you just have to stop and start working toward, “How long is that going to keep me up? Am I going to lose a night’s sleep over it? Is it going to be the whole weekend? Am I still going to be pounding my hand on the table next week?” And you just write a goal that you’re going to shorten that timeframe.

Now some people get into some mindfulness tricks, and I won’t get into that today; I’m not an expert in that field, but a way to meditate… You’ll find your own way. But I do know for certain that you don’t have the luxury of settling down in 45 minutes; you have to shorten it, and one way to do that is to acknowledge it. And you may want to write it in white font, “This person makes me angry. I’m frustrated, I’m really frustrated.” Acknowledge it and then say, “Wait a minute. What if I just write down, listen and respond, to maybe postpone the discussion?” Or, “What would success look like?” And you start visualizing success: “What if we did this this way? What if I could convince him to do it this way? What if I could get the conversation to go this way?” You have to picture something successful so that you can turn off the anger.

Pete Mockaitis
Understood, okay. So now, that’s great stuff, in terms of the composure – that’s there. You’ve mentioned practicing setting a vision and putting that forward. Are there additional things? I’m thinking about in the realm of maybe even particular verbiage, word choice, in terms of key questions or scripts that folks who are leading without authority might also be able to use to be effective in their interactions there?

Dodie Gomer
Pete, when you sign up for a new app and you have to sign in and put in a new password, it immediately lets you know whether that password is strong or weak, and it won’t let you go any further until you strengthen that password, particularly with your bank. Your bank is not going to let you put “123”.

Pete Mockaitis
“Password”.

Dodie Gomer
Yeah, “Password”, right? And I really think it’s time for us to think about the words that we choose and determine are they strong, are they weak. And since most of us send some emails still today, it’s probably the first place to start – when you look at your emails and you think, “Okay, did I use strong words or weak words?” And become a student of it. And when somebody says, “We need to get the budget in by Tuesday. All spreadsheets need to be updated by Monday night. Here’s the steps to do it.” That’s really clear and it’s strong enough; you don’t need it much stronger than that.

But when somebody says, “I kind of sort of need everyone to work together ’cause maybe it’s possible that we sort of could…” Oh my goodness, the preambles: “I am so sorry that I have…” It weakens the message. And you can start by looking at emails, but you can also just pause and listen to what you just said, compare it to what other people are saying. And I think in our U.S. culture we have taught some of us to speak in a more passive, weaker tone, and some of our cultures to be polite. And the example I give, and I don’t like to pick on them because I support them, is the Girl Scouts. The Girl Scouts honor. Were you a Boy Scout, Pete? I don’t know this.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s a longer story, but I was a Cub Scout, I went through the Webelos – the intermediate phase – and then when I joined a full-blown Boy Scout troop, it just seemed like we had a lot of meetings and weren’t doing as much fun stuff, and I lost interest pretty quickly. My brother was an Eagle Scout, and I barely got started on the Boy Scouts proper.

Dodie Gomer
Well, and it makes a difference in what’s going on at that time. I had an opportunity many years ago to be involved with the Society of Women Engineers, and we did this program on diversity. And one of the things that came up was on communications. And I was giving this example to the leader of SWE, that the Boy Scouts have an oath; the Girl Scouts have a pledge or a promise.

So coming from a large family – my brothers were Boy Scouts, some of my sisters were Girl Scouts… I got allergy shots, so that’s what I got to do for my extracurricular activity, so I wasn’t a Scout. So I heard the pledges. And so if you think about the word “oath”, compare it to “promise” – oath is what the president takes. Promise – maybe it’s more honest but it’s not as strong as oath. And then when you hear the Boy Scout “On my honor, I will serve God and my country”, and the Girl Scouts’ is, “On my honor, I will try.”

Pete Mockaitis
Is it really?

Dodie Gomer
Yes.

Pete Mockaitis
I don’t think I ever knew that.

Dodie Gomer
I haven’t Googled it in a few months. I should go back and Google it and I need to get a hold of the Girl Scouts so we can talk about it. But here’s the thing: So now we’ve taught girls to speak that way and we also have taught all of us to expect girls to speak that way. So that if you have a woman in the workplace that says, “I suggest we take 20% off the budget”, versus, “Should we try to take 20% off the budget?” I mean you expect an adult to say, “I recommend 20% off the budget”, not, “Should we try?” Who do you want as a neurosurgeon – “I will try” or “I will”?

And I don’t know if it really stems from the Scouts, and it is not all just a gender; it’s in our cultures, where we come from, what part of the country we’re from, but I do think as adults we need to make sure that we don’t have a bias when we hear someone talk with strong terms – not aggressive but strong terms – that that’s okay, that’s what we expect of them. We don’t expect the weaker words in the workplace, that they matter. And filler words – let’s stay there for a second – the “Ahhs” and the “Umms” and…

Pete Mockaitis
“You know”?

Dodie Gomer
“You know?”, “Right?”, “You know, right?” – all those filler words weaken a statement.

Pete Mockaitis
Yes, it’s so funny. My buddy Connor and I – we’ve got a joke. I don’t know where it came from, but I think it was some interaction I had when I was an intern in college. And so the joke we use that kind of illustrates that point is we’d say, “Soooo, are you guys inspired by my vision, oooor…” It’s like it just doesn’t kind of fit – the “so” and the “or” elongation and the intonations when there’s a strong sentence about being inspired by a vision. And so, maybe could you help calibrate us a little bit, Dodie, in terms of, I don’t know, maybe some common pieces of workplace communication, and if you could give us a little bit of a taste for a sentence articulation that is too weak, too intense, and perfectly strong in the middle?

Dodie Gomer
Okay. I’d like to give just an example of people showing up to meetings. I’ve seen people come to a meeting and say, “Now I have a hard stop at 4:00 o’clock.” They don’t pound their hand on the table and say, “I have a hard stop at 4:00 o’clock.” They just say, “I have a hard stop at 4:00.” The meeting was supposed to end at 4:00 and they showed up early enough, at quarter to 3:00, the meeting starts at 3:00 and they say, “I have a hard stop at 4:00.”

It’s just very polite, to me it’s very professional, and it’s very clear. And it’s strong, and everyone understands it. To me that is right on the money. And then you have someone come in with, “I’m so sorry I’m late, but you know… I’ve got to leave here early because I’ve got to take my son to soccer. And the last time we went down that road we drive he got sick in the backseat and boy, was that a mess ’cause the dog was back there. And so if I leave here…” And so throughout the meeting you hear, “Now, I have a question. You probably already talked about it because I was late.”

Pete Mockaitis
Right.

Dodie Gomer
All that stuff is just distracting. But it’s certainly okay to say, “Apologies, everyone, for being late, and I will be taking off at 4:00 Any assignments, let me know and I’ll circle back with Joe to make sure I’ve got it.” It’s a politeness, but people don’t really need to hear about the backseat.

Pete Mockaitis
Understood. Right, no backseat.

Dodie Gomer
No one wants to hear that, right? And I think it’s that very first thing that we said, Pete, is own your job, know what’s going on in the business, and be the solution. And if you’re so focused on that, I think communication follows. But if you’re focused on yourself about where you’re going afterwards or about you want to be heard and… I don’t know, if you just want to be heard… So I know you asked for a really strong one; I just gave an example of, “I have a hard stop at 4:00.”

Pete Mockaitis
That works.

Dodie Gomer
I think it’s just a very strong one. And then a lot of the preambles of, “This is a stupid question” or “Maybe you’ve already talked about this” and “I don’t want to confuse things” – don’t put that on someone’s brain that you are causing confusion. So here’s what I have found. Let me back up here. What I have found with people that are handling compliance – they have to deliver bad news, they have to say, “We’re being audited. I need to prepare you for an audit. There is a crisis.” Let’s say there’s a chemical spill or there’s an accounting issue with the SEC. People in compliance roles – I think they think when they deliver a message they’re considered trouble.

Pete Mockaitis
Right.

Dodie Gomer
“Oh, here she comes, trouble.” And I actually think from a communication perspective, they should frame it up – and I think this is what you’re asking – they should frame it up before there is a crisis. So, if… So I just said “So”.

When I meet you, Pete, and you are my manager, for the first time, and I’m the compliance person that’s handling your compliance issues, I will say to you, “Pete, what I’m known for is putting issues on the table and putting on the table clearly and concisely. When I call you and tell you I need to put something on the table, that’s the cue that there’s an issue that we need to discuss.” Now, how did that sound to you as my manager? You’re not my manager, but if I were working for you, how does that sound to you? Are you threatened by it? How does it sound to you?

Pete Mockaitis
It’s funny. My reaction is like, “Well, okay then”, is sort of like how I’m feeling there.

Dodie Gomer
Is it insulting? Do I feel like I’m being in a power play?

Pete Mockaitis
No, it’s not insulting; it’s like you have asserted yourself, and I guess my thought is, if I have a problem with anything you’ve said, I’ll let you know, and I’ll say, “Well Dodie…” [laugh] The worst case response I think would be something like, “Well Dodie, I appreciate you being forthright with me in these matters. I would however alert you that sometimes it might take me a couple days to be able to schedule the time to address the issue. So if it’s super urgent, please flag it as such so I can respond accordingly, because my default will be to assume everything can wait 24 or 48 hours when you bring it to my attention.”

Dodie Gomer
Yeah, so you just took it to the best level of all, is to give someone choices in how it’s going to manage. But I like it that we are setting a framework on how we’re going to work together and get rid of that perspective of, “I’m the troublemaker.” And I’ve heard that from environmental health and safety professionals before – that they say, “When they see me coming they think, ‘Oh boy, here comes trouble. There’s probably something wrong from an environmental perspective or maybe there’s been a safety issue, maybe there’s an injury.’ And so they only see trouble walking down the hall.”

But if you set it up long before saying, “So here’s the parameters: I’m known for putting issues on the table.” And we’re talking whistle-blowers here; we’re talking about everyday professionals that need to bring an issue up when the whole group says, “We should do Plan A”, and you really think people need to look at Plan B. You want to be able to speak up, even if you’re the solo person, and feel comfortable saying, “Hey, I’d like to put something on the table.”

Pete Mockaitis
Alright.

Dodie Gomer
And that is professional; it’s not attacking anyone. But the coolest thing is if you’ve already had that cup of coffee with your peers, with your manager, to say, “I love it that we work in a place where if I need to, I can put something on the table.” It’s a phrase that is not threatening; it’s not saying, “Well, I want you to hear what I think about this.” It’s the tone. But it’s almost letting people know that that’s cue for, “This is going to go against what everyone else is saying.” But you don’t need to… Yeah.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, that’s good. That is good, thank you. And I can’t help it – when you say, “Here comes trouble”, I’m thinking of The Office and the acappella group called Here Comes Treble, if you saw that one. So, “I’m known for… singing a Doo-wop tune when I show up”. That’s what I’m known for.

Dodie Gomer
Don’t get me singing.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, please, if you’re feeling it, don’t let me hold you back. So, these are some great principles: First – mindset, own it, behave like you own it. Second – practice setting that vision even in small things. The composure is credibility, use strong words over weak words. Any final principle or two that you’d like to highlight about leading without authority?

Dodie Gomer
I’m going to say, practice it. And I know people say, “Well, I’m not a supervisor, so how do I practice this?” You can practice it in the community in which you serve – so those volunteer organizations, if it’s putting a 4^th of July event on for the Boys & Girls Club, you can practice by doing the set up or the tear down by setting a really clear vision, having concise communication, some strong words. And you’ll get feedback.

You can even practice it with your friends – if you’re all planning a trip, you can be the one to say, “Hey, let me organize this.” And, “I didn’t know we were going to do that”, “I didn’t know it was going to cost $50”, “I didn’t know that ticket was 75.” Or they say, “Hey, this is great. He’s got this planned so well, I knew exactly what I owed, I knew what I had to do, I knew how much luggage to bring.”

And I know there’s a lot of people in large cities that share a house and there’s three or four roommates, some professionals are doing that – be the one to manage the finances and get all the utilities, and you can set the vision, “Hey, we’re going to pay our utilities and our rent two days early. That’s how this is going to work. And here’s how it’s going to work. And if you’re still using regular old-fashioned checks, write me out 12 checks, I’ll put them in the lockbox, and that way I always have your check, ’cause late is not part of this vision that I’m setting.”

You won’t use the word “vision”; but there are so many different ways, whether it’s a family event, if you’re getting ready to put together a celebration for your grandparents for their anniversary and you need to collect pictures. Some people can cause a lot of confusion, and other people – you just watch it and it’s just so clear. And certainly this is starting to sound like project management, but it’s setting that vision that people will want to do things with you.

I’d like to add, when we want to become stronger in any aspect of leadership, especially leadership without authority or leading without stripes, there are three ways, and one is what we just talked about, is practicing it. You have to practice it. The other is picking up some articles or listening to Pete’s podcast on it. This is really good material. But the round-off, the tipping point to really become excellent is by getting feedback from someone – deliberate feedback. Have a role model that you’re watching, maybe ask a mentor specifically on setting vision or getting people to get things done, and then picking up some articles. Do we have time for the last? I did have one more.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, let’s do it. Yeah.

Dodie Gomer
Okay, alright. The last one is giving people choices. And I love this example of, when some leaders had to get some complex data in a spreadsheet and it was a junior HR person that needed them to all put this data, confidential on a spreadsheet, and came to me and said, “They’re not doing it. I had to have this all on Monday for the technical people and no one turned it in!” And I hate to say it, but sometimes when a junior person sends an email in all caps and says, “ACTION REQUIRED BY MONDAY”…

And I said, “Let’s give them a choice.” “No, there is no choice. They have to have it done by this date.” And I said, “Okay, but let’s think about giving them a choice.” And here’s what we did, and she ended up doing it and it turned out really well: Sent an invitation, but inside the invitation it says, “We need this spreadsheet, and here’s why.” That “Here’s why” is so important. Kept it very clear. “So, I’m putting on a one-hour workshop if you’d want to come by conference room 305 and I could walk you through how we put this complex dataset into that spreadsheet with that pivot table. It’ll just take an hour. Or, I’m doing a 15-minute call on Friday at 2:00. Or, open up this document and it’s got the 3-step process on how to fill out that dataset.

Pete Mockaitis
Alright.

Dodie Gomer
And guess which choice they picked?

Pete Mockaitis
The short one.

Dodie Gomer
And it was done within hours. Hours! So, to round it off for you, Pete, I think giving people choices, you’re getting it done, right? You’re getting it done. And nobody wants to come to an hour meeting on that.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, thank you. That’s excellent. Alright, well now, Dodie, let’s hear about some of your favorite things here. Could you start us off by sharing a favorite quote?

Dodie Gomer
Oscar Wilde: “Some people cause happiness wherever they go, and some people when they go.” In the professional workplace, our job really… Yours is, but most of us, our job isn’t to make people happy. But what about developing others? When we develop others, that’s just a real legacy. When we leave, if people are growing after we leave because we laid that foundation for them, imagine what the world is going to be like. But there are some people, after they leave things are better because they’re gone. That’s not a good thing.

Pete Mockaitis
Alright. And how about a favorite study or experiment or a bit of research?

Dodie Gomer
I’m a reader. I like podcasts. I’m a connector. Lately I’ve been gravitating toward that book, and I’ve had it for many years but I spend more time on it now, is StrengthsFinder, just because many of my clients have told me that that’s what they’re using and how they’re benefiting. There’s a danger in it that you start labeling people but I really think when we acknowledge that we all have strengths and if we use those strengths, there can be some value.

Pete Mockaitis
Thank you. And how about a favorite book?

Dodie Gomer
The Father’s Tale. It literally fell off the bookshelf. I was looking for another author I’d read a write-up on a book, O’Brien, and it was one of those shelves where you had to get down on your knees because the books were stuck together. And I got a little bit irritated. I was keeping my composure though, Pete. And no one was around. And when I went to pull the book, The Father’s Tale fell out. And it was like 1,100 pages and I was trying to put it back on the shelf, and I looked at it, I read the back of it and I thought, “Ha!” And now it is like my all-time favorite book.

Pete Mockaitis
Wow! That sound providential. What was a key takeaway that was transformational for you?

Dodie Gomer
There were many, many. But it was really a father’s quest to find his son, but actually it took him places that he didn’t really have any desire to go. There was a lot of danger involved, it was around the world. He ended up being held prisoner in China, but he persevered. And he really was just comfortable in his little book shop in Canada and in his own little world, but it forced him to go out. But it’s what we expect of a parent’s love.

Pete Mockaitis
Thank you. And how about a favorite tool?

Dodie Gomer
Right now in my business, Doodle. And it’s just that very simple scheduling tool. When you’re trying to get five, six, seven people to agree on one day for an hour meeting and you just send out this doodle and people vote, and you’ve got it done. A lot of calendar systems work that way, but not all of us are on the same calendaring system, so Doodle does it for me.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And how about a favorite habit, a personal practice of yours?

Dodie Gomer
Staying in touch with people that mean the most to me. I know that everyone says you have a reason to be in someone’s life – sometimes it’s just for a season. But I am from a very large family and my husband and I have our two sons and we are all about experiences as gifts instead of packages. And so when our youngest son went away to college, he gave me the architectural tour, walking tour for Chicago as a gift. And it was brilliant because we had conversations about architecture that led into other conversations for the four of us that never would have taken place, I don’t think. And what a gift, and now I don’t have a closet that I have to clean out ’cause there isn’t stuff in the closet.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, excellent. And is there a particular nugget that when you share it people seem to really connect and resonate, taking notes and re-tweeting and such?

Dodie Gomer
It’s “Owning your job”. It leads to so many different conversations. There are some people that are assertive and they know that they own it, but I’ve done a whole series on owning your career, owning your job, and it’s really being the solution and making other people successful. So I even have that on my card – “Make others successful today.” That’s how I was raised.

Both my parents, by my mom worked full time, raised 10 children, ran for public office not once but twice. An amazing woman, retired at the age of 75. Very hard worker, very charismatic, but her comments to me throughout my life was, “You make others successful and you make the birthday girl smile, you make the bride, make sure that’s her day.” “Make sure you never tell an engineering joke”, when I was the HR manager for engineers. It was all about making others successful. And when I say, “Own your own job”, and if you do that with the idea of you’re going to make other people successful, your self doubts start to disappear. It’s amazing, the combination of the two.

Pete Mockaitis
Thank you. And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Dodie Gomer
Dgomer.com. You Google “Dodie Gomer”, a couple of different things come up, but the best thing is to go to the website.

Pete Mockaitis
Very good. When you say a couple of things come up, I’m like, “Is there the Dodie Gomer singing, song and dance routine?”

Dodie Gomer
No, I really don’t sing. I’m sure my sisters are going to laugh at that one. There will be videos forthcoming; there’s a couple of videos out there, but right now it’s just the website with a couple of small vignettes.

Pete Mockaitis
Alright. And do you have a particular challenge or call to action you’d leave folks with who are seeking to be awesome at their jobs?

Dodie Gomer
Well, I’d say it’s create a leadership legacy, so it’s actually the word “CALL”. And even if you never want to be a supervisor, you say that “Management isn’t for me. I’m a technical person. I just want to do my job.” But really think about developing your leadership. If you looked at your library today, whether it be your e-library, your podcast list – is it all on your technical? Grow your leadership strengths, and so create a leadership legacy. And one way to do it is to take time for other people to help develop them, even if it’s in their technical skill, that’s a leadership legacy. Imagine your last day and somebody’s holding up a glass or a cup of coffee to toast you – what would it be on? What would they toast you on? So, call to action – C-A-L-L – Create A Leadership Legacy.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, thank you. Well Dodie, this has been such a treat. I wish you lots of luck in all that you’re up to.

Dodie Gomer
Thank you, Pete. This was fun.