128: Little Things that Make a Big Difference for Your Career with Jeff Kavanaugh

Pete Mockaitis
Jeff, thanks so much for joining us here on the How To Be Awesome At Your Job podcast.

Jeff Kavanaugh
Glad to be on. Thanks for having me.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, you know, I’m so curious to know, first and foremost, so you’re a senior partner in Infosys, which is about a $10 billion annual revenue company. So, big time responsibilities and impressive stuff happening. So, I’m so curious, what is it within you that draws you to spend, I don’t know if you call it your free time, but to invest a good piece of your life into doing sort of the teaching stuff?

Jeff Kavanaugh
Well, I do think that at some point we all do need to pay it forward, and over the years I’ve gotten… I had the honor and privilege of be in consulting, learning a lot, and serving clients. And I think that to be able to provide some of that back to people going through college, and hopefully some practical nuggets here and there, I think that’s a good thing, and I think you can call it your firm-building extracurricular.
The other thing is the opportunity came up. I was helping the University of Texas, they had asked me to give them some ideas on making their curriculum more relevant for critical thinking and creative thinking and some of the things that their board was telling them they needed, and they asked me if I could design a class and then could I go teach one.
Now, I didn’t really have the time but it was something that made a lot of sense, and a good part about it is there’s a boomerang effect where it’s actually helped out our consulting practice. Obviously it’s another way of letting the student population know about our firm, so a good source of recruits. It’s also a way to develop or further nurture that relationship with a leading institution, which is great because we’ve already shared a lot of research and it’s helped us. And it’s also helped us take a good hard look at our own curriculum, how we’re training consultants and further refine it. Nothing like having to crystallize it for someone else’s use where it feeds back into your own.
So it’s been a win-win situation, but you’re right though, very much have to tamp it down as far as the time because there’d been several requests about more classes and a lot more commitment but for the seeable future, just a little bit of support on the sides is about all I can handle.

Pete Mockaitis
Understood. Okay. Well, that’s good stuff. And, so, recently I was checking out your blog and I was quite intrigued by you put together or directed a study which had a pretty significant number of folks surveyed. And, so, you were looking at business schools, students and then versus the recruiter’s perceptions on some key competencies in terms of what’s important and what do people have. And so could you share some of the key insights that emerged from that study?

Jeff Kavanaugh
Sure. Well, first of all, you might ask why did I do it. And I think unique position in addition to the normal industry role that I have at the firm, they had asked me about a year ago. But I have done a lot with campus recruiting. I actually looked after through North America.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, right.

Jeff Kavanaugh
Because we just needed to clean up a few things and I had some suggestions, and they said, “Well, would you just take this on?” I said, “Sure.” And so we recruited places like, well, University of Texas, UCLA, USC, a lot of the tier one schools, lead schools. And as recruited from those schools, well, we talked to the career counselors, the counseling centers, the university career centers, and it was interesting to get their viewpoints on what they thought was important and what they were stressing. And, of course, talking to lots of students you get that perspective.
And between ourselves as well as other employers out there, we know what we think we need, and we think we think we know what we need, for students to be successful. And I just thought I was seeing some gaps between what we all were prioritizing, and I think, again, it’s a fairly unique perspective seeing all three of those simultaneously. And like any good consultant, I wanted to make it fact-based and just to see if this played out beyond them good evidence and it might be something interesting.
So, full Qualtrics Survey, it was email-based, 500 people in career centers, universities or other professor influencers and corporate recruiters and students in 3,000. And some interesting things came out of it. In some cases they all prioritized. By the way, we used several questions. Things like, “How well do you think that your college has prepared you to excel in the world?”
And then we pulled it back a little bit and say, “Do you know of these eight career-readiness competencies, things like critical thinking, creative thinking, leadership, professionalism and work ethic, and on and on, IT awareness? Which ones do you think are most important? Which ones do you think people have the most proficiency?” In other words, that they’re good at. And then also some questions about how concerned people were about the effect, the long-term, potentially adverse career impacts of artificial intelligence and automation. We hear a lot.
And, again, these business school graduates have looked at decades of positive feedback or positive results on salary and long-term career potential. But will that hold going forward? Is the MBA still the golden ticket? Interesting, right? In a world of digital transformation and artificial intelligence and automating way lots of white collars as well as blue-collared jobs. So, that’s what we did.
Some of the things that were very interesting that came out of it, one is across the board how critical thinking emerged, and people might think, “Oh, what’s that?” It’s basically analytical reasoning and the ability to put together arguments and judgments, not arguments as in a confrontational way but arguments as in a position, and do it in a way that’s fact-based and tell a good story because that’s the reason I got involved with UT in the first place, was that some great quantitative skills coming out of college but the ability to tell a story and to tell it in a way that people were engaged, you know, multiple senses, not just drowning people in data and quantitative formulas.
And so critical thinking emerged as very strong and yet the proficiency wasn’t there as much. You know, it was an area that seem to emerge that even though people give it lip service, like some people might teach the case method, there’s just not as much attention given to it, at least the perception of proficiency.

Pete Mockaitis
So you’re saying that the students did not perceive themselves to be so great at it?

Jeff Kavanaugh
Well, they had, I think, an optimism bias across the board a little bit higher. And, again, they’re going to business school and they’re getting a lot of positive feedback among their population. And actually the career center folks were the ones probably the most positive, because they’re partly in the counseling business and partly in the cheerleading business because they’re trying to definitely get people excited and promote the students.

I think the recruiters were the ones, or the corporate HR folks, that said, “You know, we just don’t see these things as much. There’s still something missing or that we have to help people, new hires gain when we hire them.”
The other that’s interesting is leadership came out, because it’s important, we all think leadership is good. The recruiters, though, rated it lower in priority than all the students. And I think it’s interesting because, as a consulting firm, and I think speaking in behalf of employers, leadership, especially coming out of school, is something that comes from your competency. Get good at your darn job and be effective and make an impact and build.
We all can’t go run the company a year out of school. You know, people get excited, you do those cases, you’re in school and you come out and you expect that you get to skip steps. Somehow you’ve got that golden ticket. I think the reality is you can run through those steps but you really can’t skip them. And so I think that leadership perception gap also emerged somewhat.
And I think, other than that, there really wasn’t a clear-cut opinion that’s kind of bifurcated on the impact of artificial intelligence and automation. There are some people very concerned about it, some people that weren’t, and I attribute that as much to people who just aren’t, just a little bit of an angst but I think people think it’s out there in the distance, and they love Siri and Cortana and Google Assistant and Alexa so much that they think, “How it can be bad, right?” Because it’s helping them in their day-to-day life.
So, I think that they’re still, that needs to be peeled back a little bit more before we can have too much conclusive evidence, at least for people coming out of school.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. So, to recap, you said that the students across the board sort of thought they were better at those skills than the recruiters thought they were better. The students thought they were better at the things than the recruiters thought that the students were, the students estimated that their own competence. And you said that the critical thinking skill, in particular, was one that the recruiters were disappointed in seeing that this is very important to them but they’re not seeing a high level of competence.

Jeff Kavanaugh
I wouldn’t use the word disappointed.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay.

Jeff Kavanaugh
Again, overall I think it was positive. It’s just there’s room for improvement. Again, when you go from a scale, a sliding scale of one to 10, and you’re talking about from six to eight or seven to nine, it’s not like two-nine, you know. So, I won’t emphasize that. It’s, generally speaking, it wasn’t hugely off. I think the biggest thing though were the skills. For example, the recruiters emphasized professionalism and work ethic.
Again, not that glamorous. Students? It was nowhere in the chart but the employers absolutely mentioned, I think, is that right up in critical thinking as most important. I hate to say showing up for work but beyond that it’s just that work ethic. Again, not very glamorous but how do you show work ethic? Well, maybe, we have a phrase called done-done or client-ready.
You know, when something gives you something but yet you still have to proof it just because you know it wasn’t really completely done. Or if it was a little more fact-checking or just those little things, and I believe that’s the element that the employers are wanting, that extra bit of work ethic and professionalism. And I think that actually was the biggest gap that came out of it.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. That’s a great distinction there. So, when we were talking about professionalism it’s not so much, you know, tucking in your shirt but it’s like going the extra mile associated with ensuring that a deliverable, that’s a fun phrase, is done-done not just, “Okay, technically you have complied with my request but, yes, this is rearing to go.”

Jeff Kavanaugh
Also imagine this metaphorically learning forward, being proactive, making sure and confirming that feedback, that, “Did you get what you needed? Did you receive the document? Could you open it? Were you able to use it? Was there something?” There’s a lot of feedback questions you can ask when you provide a result, when you deliver a result. Instead of saying, “Well, if you had questions you get back with me.” Or, “I’m sure, well, I created the document but you can format it to print. Who prints, anyway?”
It is a lot of little things. And there are three types of people in life right there. They’re the people that make your life easier, the ones that don’t really affect you too much and the ones who actually cause you more work. And that creeps into a crazy world where we all have more than we can do. Somehow the email gods are just stuffing those things at us every day more than we can open or act on, and an organization isn’t even as firm or as fixed as before, and wants ambiguity. So you don’t want that in those people you’re hiring coming out of school.
What’s ironic is some of these skills they’re the best at. Think about digital natives. It’s just there are some, I think it’s a mix of old and new, whether you call it the work ethic, whether you call it critical thinking and the ability to do good old-fashioned logic and analytical reasoning. In fact, a course I developed for UT made sure that some of the best of the philosophy comes in, you know, logos, pathos, ethos kinds of things because it helps you create sound reasoning which, it doesn’t matter how much data you can pull off a Google search or other searches, can you organize it in a way.
Can you apply the pyramid principle? Can you contrast between deductive and inductive logic? Can you think conductively but communicate inductively? All these are things which open up pipe of comprehension between you and your recipient so they can take it in. And that’s really what the really good consultants or strategists or senior people can do. They can convey information in just a few minutes and maybe use a few pages in a way that someone can process it and do a lot with it. I think that’s a hallmark of a good professional, the ability to not just communicate but to synthesize with it and communicate with impact.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, yes. That’s so good. And so now, you dropped a nice number of tools there from the ancient to the pyramid principle and more. So, could you maybe give us just sort of a couple quick tips in terms, “Hey, I see a shortcoming here frequently when it comes to putting together a story or forming a nice argument”?

Jeff Kavanaugh
I think the first one is deductive logic which comes from the scientific method, it’s the way engineers think, a lot of us think, where you want to build your case, and at the end you provide your conclusion. And if you do a good job the whole chain works and it’s solid. The problem is the real world is messy, so when you’re communicating, even if it’s a report, the person, the recipient may not get past page 2 or 3. If it’s a meeting, people might be called away. The hour and a half you had to present maybe only 10 minutes.

There are a lot of reasons why, and you say, “It’s not fair.” That’s true, life is not fair. Why don’t you, though, design for that real world. So, create your business case, defend all your arguments and then whatever it is that you’re doing, assuming it’s some kind of report, most of us that’s what we do these days, you know, we’re not making widgets as much, or even if you are making widgets, there’s a quality report, there’s the demand plan, there’s the procurement. So it’s all around this thing.
Communicate it instead of in a linear way like that, pull it forward. State your conclusion at the beginning. Support it with between three and five. I know some folks like to limit it to three, but between three and five supporting arguments that are mutually exclusive, completely exhaustive, so they’re similar, and then you just build a tree. It’s a pyramid of logic that begins with a situation and something that complicates it, or it’s a challenge, so that context has a challenge, and then you have an overarching question. And questions are fantastic because they invite a response and then you arrange your pyramids of logic beneath it.
I believe that if people just do that it’s amazing how much smarter they sound and more effective they are because they’ve just arranged their logic, and they’ve arranged their thinking and they structured it. So that’s the first thing I would say to most people who, otherwise, are very good at their work, they work hard, they’re confident but maybe they seem to hit a wall especially when dealing with managers or senior managers, you know, people well above them.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, this is fun. This brings me back to the case interview days as an aspiring –

Jeff Kavanaugh
Well, I would start to lead into that as well, if you don’t mind, just for a second because I know a lot of the people that listen to this might be beyond their employment interviews. I think the case interview is a very interesting and important example of bringing this to life. Where we use it, and many firms use it, not because it’s some secret cultural ritual. It actually is a microcosm of what most of us are asked to do in a day. You’re asked to go from a standing start to a report in about 40 minutes, and how it helps you and measure how you handle stress. It helps you deal with ambiguity, in having enough information to be able to estimate, so if someone tells you something you can say, “Well, I assume it’s X, I assume it’s Y,” and you build it into your story. You take notes.
We have these mental models, or governing frameworks, that you use that can arrange, you know, something simple as a financial statement or maybe it’s a hierarchy of some kind, just a way of making sense of these complex ambiguous situations. And I think the case interview is applicable to almost any professional. And I can tell you the first time I went through one, I had not gone to one of those colleges that prepares you adequately for it, and I hit a mental wall. It was a painful thing, and I didn’t know how to get around that wall.
And, of course, that once you learn how to break down your thinking, deconstruct it then it becomes simply a method and you work through it. I’ve been on both sides of that situation though where you just know you’re not doing something right where there’s this complex thing, but you don’t know how to, you’re not equipped for it. And then the situations where you do have it then you welcome it because there aren’t that many people out there, in the bigger larger population, that are equipped to handle it. Again, people that are just helps you stand out and that’s what makes you appear to be more senior.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, that’s great. And so I’d like to think about case interviews and, generally, like that sort of the skills of consultants in those sort of built up at the world-class consulting firms. Would you say that the critical thinking and the communication skills are the primary things that are sort of trained, built-up better there? Or are there other competencies that leap to mind as well?

Jeff Kavanaugh
The other aspect that came out of this study, and I’ve seen a lot, I think is the idea of practical experience. The code word for that, I think, at most colleges is internships. So, an internship is a microcosm. It’s a summer, maybe it’s a semester where you get practical experience. Maybe it’s any experience but sometimes some very practical experience. And especially when we’re hiring from undergraduates, it is so great to see a relevant internship or two, or sometimes even more, where you’ve seen that person at work, they’re able to describe, they did something, they worked with others, they created a report, they did a study, they created an output and they worked with others.
So, I think practical experience, and that can be when people like myself might come in and help a college and provide, it could be guest lectures, internships obviously are really good ones. I think that practical experience, and I also believe it’s relevant once you’re out of school. All of us, if we don’t dramatically change our careers, I think we make lots of small degree course corrections over our careers. In some cases every year or two.
You’re learning a lot. Maybe you switch companies, maybe you switch areas in your company, or maybe it’s a new set of skills because you got promoted. And I believe that you can immerse yourself into something new. Sometimes it might be in your own dime if your company is not paying for it. I know these code camps are popping up now. That’s a good example of a very nano-internship.
I know when I wanted to do more with analytics on a small scale I started with the belts, the green, the black and then I got the master black belt with Lean Six Sigma. Again, by doing that it really helped me go to a place where I wasn’t before. So I think you can apply the concept of internships or practical experience in a way or in your own careers regardless of how many years out of school you are.
The biggest fallacy is, “Well, my college days are done. Unless I go back and get that masters or my second masters or my executive MBA, then I can’t afford that, or I can’t afford at the time.” I think that’s a cop-out. There are a lot of small things we can do especially in a world with courses on Audacity and similar tools.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, that’s so good. Thank you. Well, so now, I’d like to hear, you know, you mentioned doing some organization of logic associated with think about a situation, a complication, a key question, having a messy set of issues that you’re looking at, mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive. You know, I’d love to hear what are some other sort of quick wins or things the typical professional can do right now to look more like a genius sort of starting today by just thinking or communicating a bit differently?

Jeff Kavanaugh
Well, the first thing I believe is decide what you’re standing for, what your area of focus. When someone asks you what you do or your area, what is it? And then you could be in procurement, you could be in strategy, whatever it is. And then identify the two or three leading thinkers on the topic, make sure you’ve got books, I go for hardbacks but you could go for the e-books. Know the three or four colleges, people that create the right kind of theoretical research on it, the conferences. In other words, actually understand what leading thinking is in the area that you say you work.
It’s amazing to me the number of people I come in contact with, they probably say that they’re a subject matter expert in a particular area. And then I ask them these questions and they get very quiet. In some cases, they really haven’t gone outside of that one project or one stint they had at a particular area, and said, “Well, I did this work. I’m an expert.”

The good news about today is you have so much information at your fingertips. Of course the converse is everybody else does too, so at least take advantage of what’s available and then ask some questions. And if you really want to go for the next level call up some people or contact them, the people that write the articles or the people that are in some of these roles and reach out to them. It may take a few but you start getting some feedback and ask people questions, especially if they’re a few years more senior than you and build up some mentoring relationships. It’s amazing.
Again, just like when I wanted to help a university, there are a lot of good people out there that want to provide information but they’re not going to go seek out. But if you’re there at the time when it’s convenient for them you can get some really good nuggets, and it doesn’t take too many specific personal experiences, plus a critical mass number of vicarious ones, or maybe write a case study and you relate it back, to become an authority on something. Again, don’t skip steps but you can take the white space out and get there much quicker.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s great. And so I’m thinking I’d love to hear you hazard a guess in terms of what proportion of professionals do you think have read, say, the top four books in their field of expertise?

Jeff Kavanaugh
It’s not a high number. I think that people, we respond. We respond to what’s in our inbox. We respond to people. I think many of us suffer, I certainly do, of trying to please people. So when things come into your inbox, or people ask you, you try doing it. And I think proactively it’s good to step back periodically and say, “Do you have what you need? Are there some things that you should do proactively?”
Like, for example, you may have read the four books, but those four books six years ago might be different now. In fact, if you want to read a book about digital maybe from 10 or 15 years ago, maybe it’s different today, right? And maybe productivity tips and all that. So, on the other end you also can’t just be addicted to whatever is coming in your newsfeed, and you can have information overloads. So, I think going on an information diet and just being selective.
And I think that’s what’s nice is you can just prioritize. Prioritize your time, your personal time, your recharging time, the time in meetings and the things. And I think as long as you’re comfortable as a professional, with the fact that you are influencing your schedule, you’re taking the time for the things you believe are most important, then hell with everything else because you can’t read it all.

Pete Mockaitis
Right.

Jeff Kavanaugh
But it’s important that you believe you had some influence and you’re not just bobbing along the river taking you down the stream of knowledge and information and you end up wherever you end up.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, I think that’s great. So, be proactive and take the time to become a real expert in your area, which may be easier than you think. And so what would be another top tip you put forth?

Jeff Kavanaugh
Related to the first one, I think, is just do less to do more. Do less but be more. Get more from what you’re doing. And as you develop more expertise then new ones will emerge, and I think it will open up new avenues. I’ve certainly suffered from trying to. You know, in consulting you can serve many times a client and you could have lots of opportunities to pop up and not getting critical mass in there.

I remember one time many years ago, or probably more than 10 years ago, where I thought it was so cool. I was doing, leading five different projects in three different industries in four different states, and the technology underneath, I think, there were four different types somehow. It was so cool, I could do that. Nobody else could.
But during that period I didn’t get critical mass, and then it was just wearing me out. And then, you know what, I’m doing this one thing. It happened to be in an area called events, planning and scheduling. It’s like artificial intelligence of mid to late ‘90s and we had 35 projects in this one area. It got to be fun. You’ll be able to walk in within an hour and create something that would normally take a long time, and really be on top of something.
Now, it is hard because it was a big enough market and things lent themselves productively but I’ve been on both sides of that and either extreme, and I think you’d hunt in an area or plan an area that is big enough that it’s good to go deep. At the same time you hedge your bets a little bit and you’re always reading other things but I think it is important to stand for something and make a bet. Worse case is you reconsider later.
I think too often – what’s that phrase here, missing out – you watch too many things. And so it’s a danger for all of us. As information costs goes to zero or at least for the mass-produced stuff, it’s a danger. And how many subscriptions do you have? And people curate, obviously they value your podcast and there’s probably lots of them out there, lots of things to read.
At some point it could take over your entire schedule. So how do you manage and prioritize it? So, again, going back to the idea of managing what you read. I think deciding what you’re good at and focus on it, because then you’ll really stand out for your niche. I think that’s a big thing rather than trying to be a generalist like the next Oprah or the next Tom Peters, you know, the very broad maybe business leader. Pick your area. Develop your tribe and maybe people can start to connect with you, at your company, maybe at a business conference, your alumni organization or possibly with something broader externally.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s very helpful. And I’m curious to hear if you have some pro tips on saying “no” well in order to do that protecting of the time and your attention. So, sometimes it’s merely digital in your inbox or your newsfeed or whatnot. Other times it’s flesh and blood, a person showing up asking you to help with this or that. How do you recommend making the determination and communicating the “no”?

Jeff Kavanaugh
Yeah. Well, first of all, I’m not perfect at it. That’s stuff that I definitely have work to do there. I think the important thing if it’s face to face is letting people know when you first talk with them. The people often call, “Hey, do you have a minute? Do you have a call?” “You know what? I’ve got three minutes for my next meeting.” Give them a number. And most people will then calibrate what they want to discuss with you to the number you give them.
Maybe your meeting is in 15 minutes but you need some prep and so you give them five. Or whatever it is, I think framing the question or framing the period is really important because it’s not their fault, they don’t know what your schedule is, or they don’t know. They’re just asking would you help them, and you say, “Yes,” and all of a sudden you can’t manage your own time. I think that’s important. I got that. And then beyond that is just replying no or tentative or all these meetings online.
I think the other is try to start meetings and end meetings correctly. You can do a lot in the middle but if you start and end them correctly then you’re off to a pretty good start. Can you end them a few minutes early? If you’re walking from place to place you just can’t teleport so that causes a horrible effect. I think those two things can go a long way. They’re very, very obvious or very tactical but they free you up to think otherwise and not just be running from place to place.

Pete Mockaitis
Now, when you say start a meeting correctly and end a meeting correctly, could you go on time?

Jeff Kavanaugh
Well, I mean, on time and just have an agenda. And I think people can micromanage and squelch creativity and the value of getting together in person by managing the whole thing. You’re trying to manage every minute throughout the process. I think agendas can slide around a little bit because you want to get the most of the people’s time when they’re together. I just meant if you start a project or a meeting well and you end it well then you can afford some mistakes in the middle. I think that that’s the other thing in this world of agile and ambiguity that I believe you’re good to micromanage every step of the way just because you can measure it. That ends it carrying so much overhead and squelches the creativity that I think it’s a real danger the fact that we can do that because of all of our tools that we try to do it.
That’s why I think the minimum number of control points, maybe the start of a meeting, maybe the middle that you take a temperature check, and then at the end to make sure what are the actions, who’s doing it, hopefully it’s a few minutes before. And especially in conference calls because people aren’t together and you can’t see the body language and you don’t know how much multitasking is going on. So, I think the minimum number of control points in a discussion and then letting the free flow otherwise gets the best of both worlds.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Thank you. Well, now I’d like to shift gears for a bit and hear. You have an interesting spot there at Infosys taking a look at technological advances and how that’s getting implemented and reshaping industries and stuff. So, I’d love to hear if you have any commentary on what trends do you think are actually likely to show up in a way that we can sort of look, see and feel in workplaces within the next decade?

Jeff Kavanaugh
First, as a general statement, Peter Diamandis talks a lot about this, and so I’ll definitely give credit where credit is due, that linear versus non-linear thinking. Human beings are wired throughout our history to think in a linear way. You want more, you run faster, or maybe mechanically your engine takes you a little faster, you ride, or you fly a little faster. We’re just not wired to think in non-linear terms, you know, geometric progression.
And so what’s interesting is during the early days of exponential growth, it actually appears to be less than linear growth, and so you don’t notice it. And by the time someone notices, it may be too late because at that point it’s hit that inflection point. It could be in, oh, pandemics. It could be in growth of types of allergy. But also it can be in trends, digital trends, you know, competitors. Kodak, certainly, film category with Xerox and some others with their competitors.
And I believe that that’s something that we have to caution against is looking backward or trying to apply linear trends to many things that are going on, trying to see which ones might be non-linear, which ones might adapt faster especially given the several disruptors that are happening simultaneously, very low cost to sensors, cloud computing being very inexpensive, lot of disruptions, demonetization where things we expect now to be free. So everything that we like about those little cost-free consumer items, there’s some company going under because of it, right?

Pete Mockaitis
Right.

Jeff Kavanaugh
So I think it’s a macro statement understanding non-linear thinking or non-linear activities when they exist. And if you’re in an industry what should you be doing now so that when you do actually see it in action you’re not left out? I think it’s really important. Look at what’s happening with retail. Now, Walmart is struggling. Everybody was saying how Walmart would be the killer of what was Walmart doing to them. Now, they worry a lot about Amazon, right? And so it’s interesting how the nature of companies changes.
The other trend, I think, is interesting is, right now, people are about jobs and, of course, jobs coming back to the U.S., for example, right now. And it’s not just about the cost of wages. The fact is there’s a lot of productivity because automation is doing so much, so you can’t look backwards to forecast the future. I think that’s an important aspect as well.
And also being very helpful that the automation and artificial intelligence, they’re going to free up so much productivity that new jobs and new types of activities will become feasible that weren’t before. So what might they be? I work a lot with connected devices, smart connected commercial devices including connected vehicles. It’s happening faster than people imagine.
Now, some of it might not be allowed to happen as far as on a mass scale because of policy or regulatory issues but the technology, it’s fascinating how fast it’s moving. So I think the non-linearity of these trends happening faster is the biggest thing. And then, of course, I think genetics, although not as close to that industry. There’d been some recent studies that had been published where the National Association of Sciences has approved some level of genetic modification. I think mitochondrial insertion is some fancy term where they’re giving blessings especially in very early embryo state, especially if there are known birth defects and things like that.
So there’s some official approvals of those things happening now. And if you think there is debate about genetically-modified plants, wait till you see GM-humans, right? So, I think in the genetic aspect will no longer be separate from computing or from the mechanical because there’ll be computers at that molecular level, for example, that’ll be doing things in our bodies, you know, monitoring, provide, dispensing medications, writing feedback. So the lines will continue to blur.
And so what does that mean for businesses especially once the decisions are being made through machines that are learning? I think that’s good for us or it varies periodically to think about how it will affect us. And I also think we shouldn’t get too upset about it. First of all, you live your life in here and now, you know, day to day. You just look around the corner and make sure you’re planning as well for the different options and, also, the best defense is being the best at what you’re doing.
The top several percentage points of any industry will always do well. I do think there’s a divide, you know, a bifurcation people talk about that that’s the real issue. I think a lot of the listeners for your podcast are going to fall on one side of that divide. But I do think, what are the implications of that broad divide and are there any opportunities for people to help others as well? So those are all things I think about.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, interesting stuff. Well, Jeff, tell me, is there anything else you want to cover off before we shift gears and hear about your favorite things?

Jeff Kavanaugh
No, I think you covered it.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, let’s do it. So, can you share with us a favorite quote?

Jeff Kavanaugh
Well, one of my favorite quotes is from, not necessarily a humorous one, but it’s fairly witty, from Peter Drucker who said, “The best gift you can have is intellectual integrity. Not seeing things as you hope they are or fear they are but as they really are because that can cut through a lot of biases.” So that one sticks with me a lot.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, thank you. And how about a favorite study or experiment or a piece of research?

Jeff Kavanaugh
Well, I’m a tennis fanatic so I love things to do with tennis, and there’d been some studies. In fact, we actually work with the ATP, the Men’s Tour. And when you look at some of the statistics around tennis in things like revolutions per minute, Rafael Nadal having 3600 rpm on a forehand, and many of the pros having well over 2,500. Applying some of those statistics to sports that we play is, I think, fascinating, and also just starting to apply those statistics to strategy.
Like, for example, 93% of every pro point is four shots or less. So of those rallies, people doing practice, are just not very helpful. Now, Craig O’Shannessy is one of the top tennis strategists, a friend of mine, he writes a lot on that topic as well. So, you mentioned studies, those are some of the ones I find most interesting recently.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, thank you. And how about a favorite book?

Jeff Kavanaugh
Well, I really like the book Contact by Carl Sagan. The movie was good, the book was really good. So, it’s good about the future and different options. As far as a business book, The Visual Display of Quantitative Information by Edward Tufte. I’ve got all of his books, I’ve seen him twice 20 years ago and then a couple of months ago, and it’s the real stuff. It’s solid gold. So, good stuff.

Pete Mockaitis
And how about a favorite tool whether that’s hardware, software, product, service, app?

Jeff Kavanaugh
Well, I grew up in a farm so I like farm tools because you can, and truly, baiting wire and duct tape. We have repaired almost anything with that. So, I’ll stick with the farm on that. Yeah, hardware and software area all great stuff, but I think the ability to do things physically, to get out. I remember a machete I bought for my father. That thing could cut through all kinds of brush. And nothing quite like doing something physical and then seeing it all when you’re done. So, I’ll stick with physical then.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s good. And how about a favorite habit, a personal practice of yours that’s effective?

Jeff Kavanaugh
Well, there is a guy, I think he’s a doctor, Dr. Maxwell Maltz, growing up, you know, everything gets stressed and playing sports in high school and I did as well. And, you know, I’m not doing as well as I could. And I got this book called Psycho-Cybernetics and it was just, I think it was like meditation basically but, you know, I was a kid. And basically just breathing, you know, visualizing your breath, slowing things down. I think you could actually call it meditation today, but it was amazing how it just helped me get at my own way, and get much better at getting things done in basketball and baseball which are a couple of sports back then was what I was playing.
And it just amazed me what an impact it made in a very short period of time. So, I think that habit of just breathing. And, let’s face it, we all get stressed out, right? So, I think breathing and letting things go a little bit, and knowing that whatever somebody is saying, or that airline that’s late, or whatever that’s going on you can choose how you respond. So, I would say that habit is just breathing, letting it go and hopefully live in the fun of the day.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Thank you. And is there a particular nugget that you share, a Jeff original quote that really seems to connect and resonate with folks in terms of they’re taking notes, they’re nodding their head, they’re re-tweeting?

Jeff Kavanaugh
Well, I don’t know if it’s all that brilliant or not, but I use it a lot. Whenever somebody says we’re behind on something and, “Well, we should’ve done this before. And why are we even bothering with it now?” I say, “You know, the best time to plant a tree was many years ago, but the second best time is today. So, let’s get going in that way it will be there for us.”

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And how about your ideal contact information if folks want to learn more about what you’re up to, where to get in touch, what should they do?

Jeff Kavanaugh
You can follow me on Twitter at @jeffkav, J-E-F-F-K-A-V, or on the site JeffKavanaugh.net, J-E-F-F-K-A-V-A-N-A-U-G-H.net, and I’m just putting a lot of this content out there. It’s not a large site. It’s just a lot of the things we talked about. And then at Infosys.com, the consulting area. We’re doing some pretty interesting things in artificial intelligence and machine learning.
And our foundation I’m also very proud of. We have renovated 60,000 libraries, we feed a million hot meals a day to kids in India. We have a lot of job retraining in the U.S. Part of the Obama administration we did that in the White House with Makers Awards where we’re rewarding and helping people with actually making things and helping in that area, A lot of Girls Who Code, and Hispanic areas foundations. So, we do a lot in our foundation so you could also look up the Infosys Foundation, we’re pretty proud of that work, too.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, excellent. And would you offer a final challenge or call to action for those seeking to be more awesome at their jobs?

Jeff Kavanaugh
Yes, take five minutes a night, search on Google for the things that you care about the most in your work, and record the things that pop up, and buy a book, read an article, identify a conference and then see how that content, once you read it, you can apply to your own work. And then see how you feel about becoming just a little bit better at what you do.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, perfect. Thank you. Well, Jeff, this has been a real treat. I wish you lots of luck with your website and the forthcoming book and Infosys and all you’re up to.

Jeff Kavanaugh
Glad to. Thanks for having me on, and all the best.