1019: Achieving More with One Bold Move per Day with Shanna Hocking

Pete Mockaitis
Shanna, welcome.

Shanna Hocking
Pete, I’m so glad to be here together with you.

Pete Mockaitis
I am so glad to be here as well. I think you’ve got so much really cool wisdom associated with career advancement and strategy and wise goodness, and I’m excited to dig in.

Shanna Hocking
Great. Let’s do it.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, could you kick us off with a particularly surprising or counterintuitive insight you’ve come to about us professionals trying to advance? What’s something you know that most of us don’t?

Shanna Hocking
Well, I’d like to believe that my job is to bring out things that people already know about themselves and maybe just need that encouragement. So, I think people need a reminder that they belong exactly where they are. We get to the table, the role, the seat, whatever it is, and then we start to think that maybe we didn’t belong there in the first place because it’s new and it’s challenging us. So, I think the reminder I want to give is that you belong exactly where you are and you’re meant to be there right now and your voice is important.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s very encouraging and hopeful. And I’m curious to hear, what happens if we don’t have that message in our hearts and minds, and we think something’s amiss? What are the implications for us in terms of how we show up and advance or fail to advance in career?

Shanna Hocking
Well, I think, first, it’s very important to say that most everyone feels this feeling when they’re in that role. It’s very normal. And so, if that’s something that you’re experiencing, you’re okay, you’re still in the right place. I think what happens if we don’t hear that voice of encouragement or that peer mentor or mentor to support us, we start to let that voice become much bigger than our expertise and our initiative. And we miss a chance to shine, to share ideas, to add value, and then, really, we are missing out, but so is our workplace.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And can you share us, you’ve got a book called One Bold Move a Day, which is fun. I like bold moves.

Shanna Hocking
One Bold Move a Day is a message to you that you can achieve all of your personal and professional goals through a single intentional and meaningful action that you choose for yourself each day.

Pete Mockaitis
I like it. You’ve done this before, Shanna.

Shanna Hocking
I have done this before, and I really love telling this story about bold moves because people hear those words, bold and move, and they make a decision about what that means. And a bold move, as I define it, is a meaningful action that helps you move forward, learn, and grow. And with that mindset, you can see how this is attainable for you and worth trying.

Pete Mockaitis
I like it. And it also feels manageable and yet also meaningful and potentially transformative when strung together over many days in consecutive sequence. Could you share with us a cool story so we can get a taste for what exactly is the transformation that might be in store for us if we do one bold move a day?

Shanna Hocking
Sure. Well, I was delivering a workshop at a university this week, and I had been on campus with this team before, and at the break someone came over to me and she said, “Shanna, I had been waiting to tell you that I made my bold move.” And for her, there had been something she had been reluctant to do. I mean, every one of us has that thing on our to-do list that we need to do or want to do, but we feel hesitant for whatever reason.

Maybe we’re anticipating a negative outcome, or maybe we’re unsure if we have the capacity to do it, or we just really put it aside because it’s not our favorite thing to do. And so, she used this framework as the motivation to do the thing that had been on her to-do list for a very long time. And after she learned it, she felt compelled to make that bold move the next day.

And it was really meaningful for me to hear that story in real time from her because I think it’s important for us to realize that a bold move can be the big billboard moment in our career and in our life, or it could be just that thing on your to-do list that you need to move forward.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, can you tell us what was that thing and what happened as a result of doing it?

Shanna Hocking
Sure. So, for her, she needed to reach out to someone to have a conversation, and I think we often think about these as difficult conversations, and so when we put that kind of language on the anticipatory feelings about the conversation, we create these self-doubts and worry in our mind that it might not go well.

And the bold move framework reminds us that it’s an opportunity to grow and learn from it, and so I like to redefine this as an important conversation to have. And when she was able to do that, she was able to move forward a project that had been stuck because she put herself out there and followed through. And even if it hadn’t gone the way that she wanted, she would have learned something from that experience.

Pete Mockaitis
I love that example so much in terms of reaching out to someone to have a conversation that you’ve put off. And I’m thinking there have been times in my life I could think of, there were two key emails, and I thought, “Oh, you know what? If I could set up a partnership with this person, that could just be so huge.” And I thought, “Oh, but he’s such a big deal. I don’t know. Like, why would he pay attention to little me?” and, “Well, hey, it can’t hurt.”

And so, I put it off. I put it off, and then I did. And that led to, literally, a partnership with thousands of hours of coaching and then hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue.

And I almost didn’t do it because I got scared, or thinking to myself, “Oh, no, it’s not going to go anywhere. Why bother?” or, getting too perfectionistic with it. It’s like, “Okay, this could be huge, so I really got to make sure this message is the most amazing thing ever,” but then, “Oh, but now it’s too long. No one wants to look at that wall of text.” And so, so back and forth, and yet, that was massive.

And then another time, I read an article about someone who had a cool business in the Wall Street Journal, and I was like, “Huh, you know, we could help you guys with that.” And so, I thought, “Oh, I don’t know, this guy is, you know, a founder/CEO of a billion-dollar company. He’s probably going to ignore his messages.” The same thing! You think I would have learned my lesson, but over a decade later, I guess I forgot. It’s like, “You know what, let’s just go ahead and do this thing.” And then, like, 14 minutes later, he’s like, “Yeah, we should talk to our VP of whatever.”

And so, we got the meeting and, hopefully, that works out. But, yeah, I like what you’re saying there. It’s, like, one bold move a day, that is attainable, writing a tricky email or reaching out to someone that you kind of been a little skittish about or procrastinating, can really be transformative in terms of the doors that it opens up.

Shanna Hocking
Yes, and I love both of those examples. Do you happen to remember, Pete, what motivated you to do that most recent bold move that you told us about?

Pete Mockaitis
Well, it’s funny. It’s really silly and idiosyncratic, but I’ll share it with you anyway. I was fascinated by Kalshi.com, in which they gained regulatory approval to enable people to, essentially, bet on the election. And I was like, “Wow, this website is so fascinating. There’s all these things that you can bet on. Everyone, be very careful. Don’t get carried away.”

And so, I was getting carried away in terms of, like, you could bet on the weather, and I was like, “Oh, well, how could I get an informational edge about the weather? Where are some personal weather stations I could access that other people don’t know about?” And so, I was kind of getting obsessive about this, and I came to realize, “You know, Pete, even if you, like, clean up on betting on the weather, you’ll be so much better off just spending that time obsessing about and figuring out stuff to make your businesses work better.”

So, I was having a conversation with one of the executives, and I said, “Hey, so you knowing me and my strengths, like what should I be obsessing on that can improve our business and that’s not the weather because this is not really healthy or valuable?” And he’s like, “Well, how about partnerships?” And I was like, “You know, I read something about partnerships, and I had this idea. Let’s go ahead and do that.” So, it was sort of sharing that with someone else.

And I guess maybe there’s a little bit of vulnerability there too, it’s like, “I realize I’ve been wasting my time and life. You tell me how I might spend it better,” and then that kind of brought the idea right back up to the surface.

Shanna Hocking
Well, I think what’s so interesting about the way that you did this is that sometimes we go down a path, we don’t even know we’re going down this path maybe too far or wherever we are, and the power of having someone in community with us to offer reflection or insight about either a different path we need to go down or a different way to look at that path. And I think that that’s really true of bold moves. People may never know the bold moves that we make unless we share them, and there’s a lot of power in doing this together with others that you care about and care about you.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, so could you help us think a little bit more about these bold moves? It seems like one category might be reach out to somebody or do the thing you’ve been procrastinating. Can you share with us any other guiding lights or shortcuts which might suggest, “Here’s a likely valuable bold move for you”?

Shanna Hocking
I would say that it could be sharing your idea in a meeting, or giving difficult feedback to your boss or another senior leader when you have a different perspective that’s important to share. Connecting and meeting with your mentor is a bold move, whether that’s a peer mentor or an aspirational leader that you’d like to be more about.

Learning is a bold move. Saying, “I have something that I can contribute to the world, but I have greater capacity to learn about it,” that’s a bold move too. And so, this reframe is, “Oh, not only am I able to do this today, but I’m going to give myself credit and celebrate the progress that I’ve made once I’ve done it.”

Pete Mockaitis
I like that. And so then, how do you think about the time? If one bold move a day, is there a place on your calendar where it’s like, “Okay, 10:30 a.m. It’s bold move time,” or how does that go down?

Shanna Hocking
Well, I’m not quite as formal as that because I really think that once you adopt this practice, there is the idea that you have to open up those doors to make them happen, and if that works for you to say, “At 10:30 a.m. I’m going to do this,” that’s great. Over time, you’re going to see doors open, and the question is, “Are you going to walk through it?”

And so, what I mean by this is you’re in a networking conversation with somebody at a conference or a work gathering, and they say something that you think, “Should I add this comment? Should I ask more about this?” And that momentary decision that you are considering and the choice that you make accompanied with it is potentially your bold move of the day.

So, you can’t plan that that’s going to happen at 10:30, but you can say, “When I walk into this networking gathering at this conference, I’m going to walk up to someone and talk to them,” first bold move, “and maybe I’m going to ask them a question about something that interests me that they might want to share more about,” and there’s the second bold move of the day.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s really cool. And one of the top things our listeners say they want to improve on is confidence, and confidence is tricky, because that could mean one of several very specific things. But if we were to generalize a bit, it would seem that continually doing these bold moves is probably one of the top practices for growing a general sense of confidence, self-belief, self-efficacy, “Hey, I can do some things here.”

Shanna Hocking
So well said. People often say to me, “Shanna, I don’t feel confident enough to make this bold move.” And just like you’ve said, I remind them that confidence comes from taking action to move you closer to your potential. And so, in making that bold move, no matter what the outcome is, you’re building your confidence.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And share with us, in the moment when we have those fear or impostor-types of feelings and emotions, how do you recommend we power through?

Shanna Hocking
I find it really helpful to have a mantra to power through, particularly if you’re going to walk into a situation or be faced with a situation that you anticipate will either cause you to shrink back or not speak up, and there’s a whole host of mantras that might work for you. “One bold move a day” is a great one. I really like to say, “I will achieve more than I ever thought possible.” And that kind of reminder in the moment of, “Can I possibly do this?” helps me to move forward and make my bold move too.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah. Can I hear some other mantras that are really helpful and resonant for folks?

Shanna Hocking
Sure. Well, I’ll tell you a story about a mantra that could be applicable, depending on where you are in your career. If you’ve just stepped into a new role and you’re feeling those feelings we’ve talked about already, Pete, about, “Do I belong here? Can I do this?” you were hired for a reason. And so, there have been points in time in my career where I made this level-up moment. I’m into my first managerial role, for example, and I thought, “I can’t possibly do what is being asked of me in this moment right now.”

And so, I looked in the mirror and I reminded myself of my title and my role, and that alone gave me the confidence to say, “Oh, yeah, no, I am a big deal and I can do this.” So, that’s another potential mantra that might work for you in the moment to remind yourself someone chose you for the role that you’re in.

I really like to think about mantras that motivate you. So, if you’re motivated by gratitude, if you’re motivated by celebrating progress, then you can say, “I will learn something from this and I will celebrate afterward no matter the outcome.” Or you can say, “I’m so grateful for all I’ve been able to accomplish, and I know that I can achieve more.”

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, that’s good. I imagine this could take so many fun flavors in terms of as many unique people and messages that we find resonant, you know, there could be plenty. And I’m wondering if you have a system or process by which you recommend people go about unearthing an effective mantra for themselves?

Shanna Hocking
I find that mantras are often things that come to us. There are things that we hear from other people or we read in a book and it’s the kind of thing you write into the margin or you write down on a Post-it note or in your phone, and you’re like, “That works for me.” What version of that worked for you? What motivated you? What did it make you want to do? And then, can you apply that directly or adapt it to create the mantra that will be the one that you can most rely on?

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, I like that. You could catch it from any number of unlikely sources. I’m thinking, once I was watching this goofy reality TV program, and some guy was trying to psych himself up to ask for a date, and he said something like, “You’re alive for 14,000 more days, and this will not be the one that you look back on and are disappointed,” or something like that. Like, it was intense, like, “Whoa, this is life or death, there’s a limited number of days,” and that’s true, we do have a limited number of days.

And so, he brought that, and, sure enough, he asked for the date, and it worked out, so great job, reality TV guy. So, yeah, just sort of maybe keeping our antennas up for where those bits of inspiration can come from, or maybe where they’ve come from in years past, but maybe we’ve forgotten, from a favorite book or movie or whatever.

Shanna Hocking
Love that. I think that there’s lots of inspiration that we can take in everything around us if we’re looking and listening.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And you recommend folks adopt a few key mindsets. Can you expand upon these?

Shanna Hocking
Yes. So, the bold move mindset is the foundation for making your bold moves each day, and the bold move mindset is made up of four individual and complementary components. The gratitude mindset, being grateful for all you have and all you are. The happiness mindset, reminding yourself that happiness does not come when you reach success. Every day, you are working towards something that’s important to you, and that’s what’s defining your happiness.

The progress mindset, celebrating every step of this journey and honoring what you’ve learned along the way. And the “and” mindset, the recognition that you can experience two different things at the same time, such as joy and challenge, and embracing that you are more than one thing at any given time.

Pete Mockaitis
Wow, those are powerful and grand. Do you have any pro tips on how we might cultivate these effectively?

Shanna Hocking
I think the gratitude mindset is a very approachable way to start. Lots of people talk about gratitude, Pete, and the very first time that I read about this and heard about this, I was reluctant to try it. I’m way too practical and way too actionable to think that a gratitude journal was going to change my life. And the idea of writing down three things each day that I was grateful for gave me the pause to think about what I’d already been through and what I’d already learned, and accept that and accept myself.

And I have found that that is a great place to start, and starting to figure out how the bold move framework can apply to you, and whether you do this in the morning or the evening, it doesn’t matter. It is the idea of saying, “I’m grateful for what I have in this day,” not the biggest things that we’re grateful for every day, but, “Today, what am I grateful for?” And that comes with accepting yourself and giving yourself credit too.

Pete Mockaitis
And, Shanna, I’d love to get your perspective when it comes to gratitude journals. I’ve done this exercise off and on at times, and what’s interesting is sometimes it feels very perfunctory, like I’m checking the box, “I’m grateful for this. I’m grateful for this. I’m grateful for this. And so, yep, those, in fact, I objectively, logically understand, these are blessings, and it is good to have them. That is special and rare, and, thusly, gratitude is an appropriate response.” It’s almost sort of like robotic.

And other times when I’m doing the gratefulness practice, boy, I’m really feeling it, in terms of like, “Wow, this is just, wow, a tremendous blessing.” And my heart is open and expanded and I could see how this leads to all sorts of benefits and sort of health outcomes and goodness that they say happens when you do a gratitude journal.

So, do you have any perspective on that? When doing the gratitude thing, sometimes I’m really feeling it, and sometimes I’m not, I prefer to be feeling it more. How do you think about that?

Shanna Hocking
Well, I think it’s a really good point because, again, I was the reluctant person when I started this too. And what I’ll say is, at the very beginning, it might feel like a to-do list item that you have to check off, and there was a transformation for me that happened when I realized that it was okay to be grateful for getting to visit my favorite coffee shop. There was nothing silly or mundane about that. It was a recognition of something special that happened during the day.

And like any practice, if we only do it when we’re feeling like the top of our game, then it’s not going to become a habit that will outlast the difficult moments and the difficult days. If we only write when we’re in flow, then we’re not going to be able to be a great writer. We have to be able to do it even when it’s not coming as easily because it’s the practice of the work that we’re putting in.

So, with gratitude, if it’s feeling like, “Today’s not my day for me to recognize these three things for myself,” then practice sending it to someone else, “Pete, I really value that you invited me to be on your podcast. And I especially value your vulnerability in our conversation today. I just wanted to tell you that I thought it was great.” Then I’m expressing gratitude to someone else and I’m still getting the power of that feeling for myself, and I’m sharing the joy with someone else.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. That’s nice. And how about the progress mindset?

Shanna Hocking
So, the progress mindset for me formed because I was so busy going on to the next thing, the next goal, the next close, the next outcome, the next job title. And every time I got to that milestone, I would high-five myself, but then I’d be like, “Okay, what’s next?” And when you’re constantly waiting to get to this next thing, you’re not being present in the moment, and that’s what I experienced for myself. And I was really hard on myself, and I still am, I have to work through this.

So, what can I do to celebrate the progress that I’ve made? I haven’t finished the project. We don’t have to wait till the end for a celebration. You need to celebrate the progress along the way in order to be motivated to keep going. This is particularly true if you’re a people leader. How are you celebrating progress for your team members so that they can navigate the challenges and keep working through them, and see what the outcomes will be even if it’s not the way that they hoped or planned?

Pete Mockaitis
That’s nice. And tell us, when it comes to team leading, one bold move I’ve discovered is the bold move of letting go of some things, and asking another colleague to take it on. And delegation can be challenging in terms of, “Oh, no one can do it as well as I can do it,” or you have some fears, concerns. Can you share with us any of your top tips when it comes to delegating, letting go, empowering others?

Shanna Hocking
Well, I will say that no matter where you are in your career, whether you are working together with an intern or a colleague, or you are a chief executive, delegating is a learned skill and it requires practice. I think that the very first tip in understanding how to approach delegating is changing the mindset from, “I can’t do it all,” or, “I’m not good enough, and therefore I have to do this,” to, “What opportunities can I create for other people around me to learn and maybe get to the place where I am? And how can doing this allow me to focus on my best and highest use of time, which allows me to contribute more to the world?”

That mindset shift is so important. I often hear people trying to hang on to doing it all because they think they’re supposed to. And then from there, it’s really understanding what is important to other people to achieve, and, “How can I help them do this? And how can I help create opportunities for learning? And then how can I communicate clearly about what is expected so I can set someone up for success in this process?”

Pete Mockaitis
Well, these things make great sense in terms of a great mindset to have going into it as well as some principles to follow, to have that be more likely to be successful. Can you share with us any nitty-gritty do’s and don’ts within this?

Shanna Hocking
Absolutely. The first thing to know is that if you’re going to delegate something to someone, you cannot micromanage them throughout the whole process if you want this to be successful for you or for them. So, in the beginning, it might take an extra 10 minutes or 15 minutes to say, “Here’s where the outcome is that we’re working toward. Here’s how frequently we’re going to talk about progress. Here’s how you can reach me when you have questions. And we’ll look forward to seeing how this goes along the way.”

But if you say, “Here’s the project. I want you to work on it,” and then every couple of days you’re like, “How’s it going with this? What’s happening with this? Where are we with this?” What you’re saying to someone is, unintentionally, “I don’t trust you. I don’t believe that you have the capacity to do this on your own.” So, having that conversation up front gives clarity to all roles of people who are involved.

The other thing is, it doesn’t mean you’re letting go of everything entirely. Especially if you’re a people leader or if you’re delegating a project to an intern, you are responsible for that outcome, too. And so, that clear communication just creates more clarity for everybody who’s involved in the process, and then you can experience a different kind of pride, too, in seeing someone that you’re working with being able to achieve something and feel good about it for themselves. I think that’s really where growth comes as a leader.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, zooming out, tell me, Shanna, any other key things that make all the difference when it comes to career advancement and wisely navigating things?

Shanna Hocking
Something I often encourage people to consider is how to lead from where you are. I, fundamentally, believe that everyone is a leader. Your leadership is not about your title or your authority, it’s the energy and purpose by which you lead yourself and serve others each day. So, no matter where you are on the org chart, you have both an opportunity and a responsibility to lead in the workplace.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, any final things you want to make sure to mention before we hear about some of your favorite things?

Shanna Hocking
As you are starting on this bold move journey, as I call it, a bold move can be quiet. When you’re talking to two people like us, Pete, right? You and I make a living by being out in public and doing a lot of things to encourage others, and it might seem like, “Well, that’s great for Shanna and Pete.” So, a bold move is defined by you, and it might be quiet, right? You do not have to be extroverted in order to achieve this. You have to be committed to your own success. And I hope that that’s the encouragement to get started on this journey.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, thank you. Well, now could you share a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Shanna Hocking
“Luck is when preparation meets opportunity.”

Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite study or experiment or bit of research?

Shanna Hocking
So, I will share with you that the research study I’m talking about most frequently recently is about your team’s collective strengths. So, the study came out last year, and what it’s showing is that when you identify individual strengths and talk about how to leverage those strengths collectively and trust each other’s strengths in the workplace, you can create a high-performing team.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Do we know how to do that or how to not do that?

Shanna Hocking
Well, I lead a workshop on how to do that, so we definitely know how to do it. It is a self-discovery conversation and also a team collective about, “What do we do well? And how do we do it well together? And then how do we apply that?” You can think about this in terms of a project. There’s probably something that you can contribute to a project right now that is going unnoticed in your workplace because maybe it’s not something you talk about frequently or it’s not related to your job title.

But if you can say to your manager, like, “Here’s a strength, a way I would like to add value to this project,” you might be able to unlock some piece of this project that’s been stuck and also your own potential.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite book?

Shanna Hocking
My very favorite book to recommend is, What Works for Women at Work by Professor Joan C. Williams. That book changed my life, and I have given it as a gift to many women that I mentor.

Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite tool, something you use to be awesome at your job?

Shanna Hocking
I just got trained in the Hogan Assessment in order to be able to help leaders understand themselves and their teams better. So, I’m looking forward to using that tool in order to do my work.

Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite habit?

Shanna Hocking
I’d say probably gratitude, right? I think it is the most approachable way for any of us to be able to celebrate who we are and where we are.

Pete Mockaitis
And is there a key nugget you share that really seems to connect and resonate with folks; they quote it back to you often?

Shanna Hocking
When it comes to one bold move a day, people often feel inspired by the idea that you get to choose what your bold move is every day and nobody else gets to judge it.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Shanna Hocking
I’d love to connect with you on LinkedIn where I share a lot of leadership insights and, also, I send out a weekly newsletter, which you can find on my website, ShannaAHocking.com.

Pete Mockaitis
And do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks looking to be awesome at their jobs?

Shanna Hocking
Well, Pete, I think we’re going to challenge people to make their one bold move a day because it will make the world a better place, and it will help them to be the best version of themselves.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Shanna, thank you for this. And I wish you many lovely bold moves.

Shanna Hocking
Thank you, and back to you.