877: Why Small Decisions Matter—and How to Make them Better with Richard Moran

Pete Mockaitis
Richard, welcome to How to be Awesome at Your Job.

Richard Moran
Thanks, Pete. I’m happy to be here today.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, we’re happy to have you talking decision-making in your book Never Say Whatever: How Small Decisions Make a Big Difference. Could you maybe kick us off with one of the trickiest or most interesting decisions or decision-making processes you’ve ever witnessed?

Richard Moran
Sure. Well, in the book, I interviewed a lot of people about how they make small decisions, and my books is not about huge decisions in our lives. It’s about the thousands of small decisions that we’re making every day. And I asked some people, “How do you make these small decisions?” And I got all kinds of interesting answers. Everything from some people, one guy said he turns over the Magic 8 Ball until he gets the right answer, you know, the toy, the Magic 8 Ball. Some people ask Siri, “Hey, Siri, what should I do about this?” But those are sort of the outliers. What most people do is say things like…

Siri
“Make a note. Define happenstance. And set a timer for 20 minutes.”

Richard Moran
Sorry, there she is.

Pete Mockaitis
Actually, that’s perfect.

Richard Moran
Yeah, she actually, there she is. She does everything.

Siri
It’s okay, Rich.

Richard Moran
Stop, Siri. Most people use simple things like pros and cons and if-then scenarios and things like that. The book is about small decisions, and in my research, I found that there’s like 3500 small decisions that we make every day, and all of them matter. If you don’t make any single one of them, your little world on that day might go sideways.

Pete Mockaitis
Thirty-five hundred, so, geez, that’s like three or four a minute of consciousness.

Richard Moran
Yeah. Well, think about it, in the research, they did the simple test of the decisions that you make when you go out to lunch with a colleague, and they found that there’s about 350 decisions that you make when you go out to lunch – where to go, where to sit, leave your jacket, take your jacket, lettuce, tomato, mayonnaise, sourdough, wheat. You get the idea.

But every time you say, “Whatever” to any of those decisions, you’re likely to get just the sandwich that you don’t want. So, all I do is highlight that every time you say the word ‘whatever’ bad things might happen. And this might be the easiest interview you’ve ever done because all I want your listeners to do is stop saying, “Whatever.”

Pete Mockaitis
Okay.

Richard Moran
As simple as that. I’m the evangelist to kill one word – whatever.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, so tell me, while you were putting together this book, any interesting, surprising discoveries?

Richard Moran
Yeah. Well, I interviewed leaders as well as men and women on the street. And what I found is that there’s a simple solution for curing the ‘whatevers.’ So, if someone says ‘whatever’ to you, I’ve discovered that effective leaders, effective people in their jobs, say, “Tell me what that means. Okay, I get that you said whatever. Tell me what that means. Does that mean you don’t care? Does that mean you want me to make the decision? Tell me what that means.” And the simple response to whatever of someone saying, “Tell me what that means,” is really helpful.

And then, on the other side, when people say, “Well, how do I stop saying whatever?” I found that leaders do a simple thing, and that is they are always clear about what their intentions are. So, the example that I’ve used that seems to resonate is if your intention is to lose weight, you make decisions about being on a diet. If your intent is to stay in shape, you decide to take the stairs, not the elevator. If you intend to stay married, you make decisions that will keep your marriage alive.

So, I know those are very simple and very simple kinds of examples but clarifying one’s intent is not as easy as it sounds. So, what I want people to do is think about what your intent is for a day, or for this job, or for this project, or “For my career.” What’s your intent? Because then the decisions are easy. If your intent is not clear, then the decisions are hard, are less easy, and you’re likely to say, “Whatever.”

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, so it sounds like you’ve nicely segmented a few categories of what whatever can mean. Can you break those down for us?

Richard Moran
Yeah. Well, there’s lots of definitions for whatever. And it’s funny because as I talked to people about the book, the nuances of how they say it resonates like, “Whatever,” or, “Whatever,” and each one means a different thing. So, it usually means, “I don’t care,” you know, “Whatever, I don’t care.” But it could also mean, “You make the decision for me, and I’ll blame you later.”

It could also mean, “I’m helpless,” or it could be a dismissive term. Like, an example so often it’s used is, “Honey, what do you want for dinner?” “Whatever.” Well, that’s a dismissive way to avoid a decision. It can mean, “I hate you.” It can mean, “I’m going to fill this little space of air up with a useless word.” In the book, I found about 20 different definitions, and all of them are bad except for one.

And the one definition that works is, “Honey, I love you, and I’ll do whatever it takes to win back your affection.” But other than that, it’s not benign. It’s sort of a toxic word. Often, people have compared it to the F word. And the F word has a lot of meanings, too, but it can be benign, and whatever is not. It’s toxic, especially in the workplace where people are paid to make decisions. Everyone is paid to make decisions at work.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. So, then tell me, if a small decision comes up, and we really are indifferent, what do you recommend we do or say?

Richard Moran
Pick one.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay.

Richard Moran
If you’re indifferent, then I can see someone saying, “Well, they’re both good, so I’ll take this one. I’ll pick this one.” How many times have you been in a restaurant or anywhere, and whatever projects an indifference, which usually projects…? Indifference is one thing, and that might be okay. But usually, the word projects a sense of you being a slacker, or you just being indifferent means lowering, “I don’t care.” And there’s a difference between indifferent and “I don’t care,” but it’s very slight.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. So, tell me, you’re right. It seems like this isn’t easy. You tell me, Richard, master radio person, if that’s the big idea, and we’ve already got it, where should we go?

Richard Moran
Well, Pete, I can tell you some stories about how I got onto the work.

Pete Mockaitis
All right.

Richard Moran
So, it’s a classic case. I was in a big-time consulting firm, giving a presentation about…it was actually about operator centers, and people were going to lose their jobs depending on how the decision went. And as I relayed all the options, the CEO at the time said, he raised his hand and said, “Whatever.” And I said, “That’s not one of the options.”

So, I wanted him to pick one and then he wouldn’t. So, what he was really saying was, “You make the decision for me, Mr. Consultant, and I will blame you later,” which, of course, he did. And the word came to be people assume that teenage girls are ones that say this word. Remember the movie “Clueless” with Alicia Silverstone, where she would raise her fingers in a W and everybody would go, “Whatever”? Well, that’s how it started, but it’s not teenage girls who say it alone. It’s everyone who says it.

Now, for some people, it could be a shrug of the shoulders, it could be raising your eyebrows or rolling your eyes, it could be the middle finger, it could be a lot of things. But every time you say that, it’s turning into a decision that you’re avoiding. And I’ve learned in the research also that the decisions that we don’t make are the ones that create regret in our lives.

So, when people say, “I should’ve gone to graduate school,” or, “I could’ve been a manager,” or, “I would’ve been more successful had I…” you know, the should’ve, could’ve, would’ve are all part of the whatever syndrome that you didn’t make the decision. And what the research again shows is that the decisions that we did not make are the ones that we regret.

So, think about that every time you’re not making a decision, you’re regretting it, and that’s not helpful. It’s not good. And it even affects our personal lives when we can, in our dealing with our partners, and our children, and our parents, the whatevers are just toxic where you should be intentional, and you should be trying to do something with your decisions, and not blowing them off. It’s as simple as that.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And so, if we do have sort of a fear or an avoidance going on with decisions, how do you recommend we improve that mental space?

Richard Moran
Well, there is, I call it the FOBO, the fear of a better option, “I want to take the high school cheerleader to the prom but, in the meantime, I’ve got this other…” So, the better options usually don’t appear, and so make a decision based on what you know. There’s also, and I love this rule, it comes out of Bain, the consulting firm, that they call it the two-minute rule.

And that is, whether you’re an organization or an individual, the decision that you make, are likely to make in the first two minutes of being faced with it, is probably the same decision that you’ll make if you suffer over it for a week. So, make the decision quickly, in that way, if it’s not the right decision, you can always go back and change it.

So, the two-minute rule is something that is really something that can affect our getting out of the whatever syndrome, so it’s a good rule. And I think it also applies to the regret. So, if you don’t make the decision quickly, and you’re probably going to have regrets about not making them later. And, Pete, there are so many books written about decision-making. There are hundreds of books that include pivot tables, and spreadsheets, and all kinds of flux capacitors and String theory, who knows what.

This is not complicated. What I want people to do is understand that the small decisions are the ones that matter, so please make them. I’m not suggesting that anybody go into a big decision, like a career move or marriage or something, and treat it like it. Those are not small decisions, and require all the analyses and thoughtfulness that they should. I’m just talking about the small decisions and how important they are. As simple as that.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. So, we have the small decision, and we have any number of reasons we don’t care to make it, we want to blame someone else. We are open to any number of things. We’re a little bit scared of the implications. Walk us through, we got two minutes to make a small decision. What do you recommend we do to make a small decision greatly in two minutes?

Richard Moran
Well, a lot of people say, “I’m just going to use my gut,” which is fine. Gut is fine. Everybody points to Steve Jobs as he always made gut decisions. Well, gut decisions are fine if your gut is informed. Steve Jobs could make gut decisions because he had years of product design and understanding what worked. So, your gut decision in the first two minutes could be the right way to go if your gut is informed.

If it’s not, then you need to do simple things like, as I said earlier, just make a list of pros and cons, make a list of “If I do this…” Do an algorithm, “If I do this, then this will happen. If I don’t do this, then this will happen.” And we’re constantly doing that in our head anyway, so use those simple techniques that have seen to work over time.

What I find is that people, when they don’t make these small decisions, they pile up. Email is the best way. Think about email. Every morning, we all have hundreds of emails. What do we do the first thing? We delete the ones that are easy. We delete, delete, delete. So, out of the hundred emails, there’s 50 left. Ten of them are hard, and those are the ones that we might not make decisions about.

We wait until later in the week, and on Friday, those 10 decisions are now 50 decisions that are not momentous but that’s what causes decision fatigue. We all have decision fatigue right now about what to wear, what to watch. So, it’s a good way to avoid decision fatigue is just by making the decisions when you’re faced with it.

Pete Mockaitis
Now, that’s interesting because I had conceptualized decision fatigue as a consequence of making too many decisions, it’s like, “Oh, I’m so fatigued from doing pushups or running. I’ve done so many pushups or ran so many miles, I’m now fatigued.” But you posit that, “No, it comes from not making the decisions.”

Richard Moran
It is, yeah. You’re faced with it and you don’t make it, so, all of a sudden, you’re burdened, you’ve got the weight of the world on your shoulders because you’ve postponed all these decisions, and now you have to make them all, and they’re harder if you wait. So, I think both can work, both are possible, but what I’m suggesting is that when you don’t make a decision, they pile up, and then you get sick and tired of making them all.

Pete Mockaitis
Yes, and it’s certainly more overwhelming and unpleasant to face an inbox in the hundreds than in the dozens.

Richard Moran
Yeah, and they do, as we all know, they do pile up. And the hardest ones are usually the ones that we don’t make decisions about.

Pete Mockaitis
Indeed.

Richard Moran
So, that’s what I’m trying to get your listeners to avoid.

Pete Mockaitis
You’ve got a turn-of-a-phrase, “action follows intent.” How does that apply here?

Richard Moran
Well, it’s something when I talked about earlier about clarifying your intentions, and then your actions and your decisions are much easier to make. And when people think about intentions, especially in the corporate world, they think about visions and missions, or the intent of Google is to provide information to the world in a good way, and do no harm.

But what I’ve discovered is that people have their own intentions. And one of the guys I interviewed for the book, who was so fascinating, his name is John Bullock, he’s in Kansas City, or he’s in Lawrence, Kansas, and he is both an episcopal priest and a very successful lawyer. And he has a personal mission statement which just clarifies his intent, and it’s to help people.

So, every day, his intention is to help people, and then he makes all his decisions along those lines. And I’m not doing him justice, but it was a beautiful thing when I heard it, because he made all of his small decisions every day because his intentions were so clear. And it works. For him it really worked. So, that’s what the actions follow intent is all about, and make the intentions clear.

Pete Mockaitis
Do you have any other perspectives on the self-awareness, the clarity of intention, or articulations, examples of that, that just make a world of difference in aiding our decision-making?

Richard Moran
Yeah. Well, the other thing I learned, besides actions follow intent, is that good decision-makers are self-aware, that they know in their heart of hearts what they really want to do and they make decisions accordingly. And I think good leaders are self-aware, and good leaders are able to make decisions. So, an example I use, I was a CEO of a company, and I knew that I am not good at numbers, I’m not good at details. Believe it or not, there are CEOs who are not good at those two things.

But I am good at sales, I am good at communicating, I am good at building relationships. So, I’m self-aware enough that I could make decisions so that I surrounded myself with people who are good at numbers and good at details, and it just made the organization way better the fact that I was self-aware enough that I could make decisions like that. And as I talked to leaders around the world, they’re all self-aware. And that self-awareness allows them to make better decisions. Simple, yeah.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, let’s say we do have some clarity of self-awareness and intention, and we are inspired, we are not saying whatever, we’re taking on decisions, we’re making them in two minutes frequently or less, are there any traps or pitfalls within this world that you’d highlight for us to avoid?

Richard Moran
Yeah, one is that you make decisions based on what you think other people want, and that’s an easy pitfall. Another is that you don’t take risks with your decision-making. And a lot of the good leaders made risky decisions. Let me put it another way, they were not afraid to make what they would term as a risky decision.

Another pitfall is that lots of times we all have to make decisions when all of the options are bad. And I see that happening right now in the tech world. Or, leaders are making decisions based on, “Should we run out of money or should we lay off people?” Both of those options are bad, but you still have to make one. Delaying that decision is going to mean bad things, both bad things are going to happen.

So, I see people really delaying decisions and not making them when the options that are available are all bad. So, put it all together, and it just adds up to success. Personal satisfaction, career success is all based on the ability to make all those small decisions.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, tell me, Richard, anything else you want to make sure to mention before we shift gears and hear about some of your favorite things?

Richard Moran
No, I think, as you said, Pete, the whole book is in the title, Never Say Whatever, and I think we covered it.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, now could you share a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Richard Moran
Yeah, I have it right here. Let me find it. And it’s by one of my favorite authors, it’s by Arthur Miller. Well, I have two quotes, actually. The Arthur Miller quote is, “One can’t forever stand on the shore. At some point, filled with indecisions, skepticism, reservation, and doubt, you either jump in or you concede that life is forever elsewhere.” And the other quote I like, it’s by anonymous, is, “I used to be indecisive. Now, I’m not so sure.” So, don’t be indecisive. But I like those two.

Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite study or experiment or bit of research?

Richard Moran
Well, I love the Cornell research that talked about the small decisions that we make every day, and that’s one that discovered how many decisions we make, and brought it down to lunch. So, it’s fascinating when you think about it. And there’s also a lot of research that I found interesting in doing the book, and that is how many big decisions people identify in their life.

And how many times have we heard somebody say, “Oh, I’m faced with so many big decisions”? Well, the truth is, and this is out of a lot of research also, that there’s 10 or 12 big decisions in our lives, 10 or 12. And that includes things like your career, where you live, who you marry, your faith, what about children. It even gets down to whether or not to have a dog.

So, people think that there’s all these big decisions hitting them all the time. There’s not. Those big decisions are few and far between because they’re so few. It’s all those small decisions every day that are what are so important.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite book?

Richard Moran
My favorite book is a recent book, and it’s out now by an Irish author, and it’s called This Is Happiness and it’s a coming-of-age story. I bet a lot of your readers don’t know about it, or listeners don’t know about it, but it’s just lyrical about what’s important and about how we all transform from young into a mature person. It’s a great book, This Is Happiness.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite tool, something you use to be awesome at your job?

Richard Moran
My favorite tool is a hammer. In fact, I love hammers so much I have a large collection of hammers. Because how frustrating is it when you have something that needs to be hammered and you can’t find one? So, I have a lot of hammers. That, of course, implies that I treat everything like a nail, and that might be true. When the only tool you have is a hammer, you do tend to treat everything like a nail.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite habit?

Richard Moran
My favorite habit is getting up early, and greeting the day with a smile, and say, “It’s going to be a great day, and my intentions today are to make it so.”

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And is there a key nugget you share that really seems to connect and resonate with folks; they quote it back to you often?

Richard Moran
Yeah. Well, what I’ve discovered is that, as I’ve talked about the book and the word whatever, I’ve described as an earwig. I’ve put a bug in their ear, and now I’ve ruined their day because every time they say the word, they shiver because they know they shouldn’t be saying it. So, I’m putting earwigs in everybody’s ears, that don’t say whatever. And instead of it’ll be annoying, now it’ll be like the theme song from “Cars” or “Kids” or something. It’ll really be annoying.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Richard Moran
I have a website, it’s RichardMoran.com, and I do look at it, and I do respond. And I’m active on LinkedIn. Yeah, I’m very responsive. I am really trying to help people be more successful.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks looking to be awesome at their jobs?

Richard Moran
Well, it’s easy. This is an easy one about stop saying whatever. Make those small decisions. That’s my challenge.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Richard, it’s been a treat. I wish you much luck in all your decisions.

Richard Moran
Thanks, Pete. It’s been great to talk to you.