750: How to Inspire Growth Amidst Discomfort with Bill Eckstrom

Pete Mockaitis
Bill, welcome to How to be Awesome at Your Job.

Bill Eckstrom
Thanks, Pete. It’s fun to be here.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I’m excited to hear your wisdom. You’ve done a lot of coaching when it comes to leaders and sales folks and athletes, and even some training of your own therapy dog named Aspen. What’s the story here?

Bill Eckstrom
Oh, Aspen is, as I say her name, she’s about two feet from me. We’ve always had a lot of dogs, and, specifically, Labradors, and when she came along, which was my daughter’s, youngest daughter’s choice to keep her because we had a litter of puppies, her behaviors were just unique. She could turn things on and off just without any training.

Pete Mockaitis
Like, a light switch or…?

Bill Eckstrom
You pull out a training dummy for throw and she turns it off. She just is aggressive. And then you bring her inside and all she wants to do is put her head on your lap. So, she’s very compliant, very well-mannered, and so my youngest daughter and I said, “Well, let’s start training for therapy dog work.” So, we did the training ourselves, got her certified with a couple different therapy dog agencies in Nebraska, and about the time my daughter headed off to school is when I started to do then a lot of work with her. So, we’ve worked in hospitals and nursing homes and, actually, some athletic teams. She’s done a lot of therapy work with young student athletes.

Pete Mockaitis
And I’ve heard a little bit about therapy dogs, but what does a typical engagement with a therapy dog look, sound, feel like in practice?

Bill Eckstrom
That’s a good question, actually. So, if we use a hospital setting as a backdrop, we were allowed to work in two areas: geriatric and pediatric. And the geriatric, so you walk down a hall, let the nurses know you’re there, they all want to come out and say hi first, and then you just kind of go room to room, and you stick your head in, and a lot of times the nurses will say, “Hey, don’t go into room four, but, man, rooms eight and nine, I think they like dogs.”

And so, you just walk down the hall, and you stick your head in without even showing your dog, and you say, “My name is Bill. Would you like a visit from a therapy dog?” Most of the time, nine out of ten times, they say, “Yes, that would be nice,” and you just walk in, and then Aspen would either sit next to their bed or, if they’re in a chair, she’ll sit next to them in the chair, and they, literally, just run their hands through her head and her chest.

This kind of same was done on a pediatric ward where this time, there’s usually parents. But there’s one particular time, Pete, that was forever memorable, and, as a matter of fact, there’s a clip of this in my TED Talk. But when we walked in there, the nurses were giddy, they’re like, “Oh, my gosh, you’ve got to go to room three. Her whole bed is stuffed with toy dogs.”

So, we walked to room three, and I stuck my head around the corner, and I said, “Hey, my name is Bill. Would you like a visit from a therapy dog?” And the little four-year old girl is in bed, very conscious and alert, and her mother was just almost is like, “Oh, my gosh, are you kidding me? Yes, please come in.” So, we walked in, and you could hear the little girl in bed gasp audibly, so I knew it was a hit right away.

But here’s what was really cool and, keep in mind, Aspen is not allowed on furniture. She doesn’t sleep in bed with us. She’s not allowed on sofas or chairs at our home. She has her own beds and rugs and everything. But, anyway, we walk in the room, and the little girl is now frantically trying to sit up, and I reached up and I put my hand on her bed, kind of to just say, “Hey, I’ll get Aspen in a position to…” And the second I touched her bed with my hand, Aspen jumped on her bed, laid down next to her in bed.

And I was just aghast as her mom was, I said, “Oh, I’m so sorry. I’ll get her down.” Her mom is like, “No, please, please let her stay. Let her stay.” And that’s where the photograph of that was in my TED Talk came from. So, Aspen and the little girl forever bonded.

Pete Mockaitis
Beautiful. Cool. Cool. Well, I don’t have a great segue.

Bill Eckstrom
I’m not sure there’s one for that.

Pete Mockaitis
But maybe you do when it comes to coaching and performance, the metaphorical therapy dog.

Bill Eckstrom
Well, I think the segue I used in the TED Talk is, “If I didn’t make Aspen’s life uncomfortable at times, she wouldn’t have grown into that,” because her preference would be to sit around and lay around, play fetch all day, not learn new things, not to learn how to not pick up a pill if it falls on the floor, how to not get alarmed when somebody drops a bed pan behind you. So, it’s that discomfort, and it’s the same discomfort that coaches and leaders have to create in business to create growth in people and teams. How’s that for a segue?

Pete Mockaitis
Well, that’s well done. Thank you, Bill. Well, I want to hear all about your book The Coaching Effect: What Great Leaders Do to Increase Sales, Enhance Performance, and Sustain Growth. But maybe before we get into the particulars of the book, could you maybe, just reflecting back on your own career, share kind of what’s one of the most kind of noteworthy, counterintuitive, surprising discoveries you’ve made when it comes to people and performance over your long career of coaching folks?

Bill Eckstrom
Two things, and they kind of blend into each other. One is getting an event, and, again, I’d mentioned this in our book and I’m very open with it in my TED Talk, which is getting fired. That happened in 2008. What goes then alongside of that is the vulnerability that comes with telling people you got fired. That’s how I started my TED Talk is with that story, but the only reason I started my talk with that story is because some people, very close colleagues at work, talked me into that. That’s not a fun story to relive. It’s humiliating but yet I did it, and the impact of having the vulnerability to share a story like that has been profound.

Pete Mockaitis
Cool, yeah. And so, you think there’s a takeaway for folks in terms of their own vulnerability and sharing with others and the impact that has.

Bill Eckstrom
Yeah, clearly, there is and it just makes you a better leader. You become human. So, the idea of doing a TED Talk or writing a book for whatever reason, and I understand it, and please don’t take this the wrong way, Pete, but people might put you a little higher on a pedestal than what we see ourselves.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, sure.

Bill Eckstrom
And what helped get there is that vulnerability, is the idea that when you start off just the idea of being able to do a TED Talk is great. But when you start off a TED Talk saying, “Hey, I was on a roll, baby. I had things going in my favor and then I get called into a conference room by the president of the company, and next thing I know I’m jobless. I got one kid starting college. I got two more at home ready not far off. I don’t have a job.”

And then, all of a sudden, everybody is like, “Oh, my gosh, I’d been there. I can empathize with that guy.” It just makes us more effective as coaches and leaders when they look at your life, and say, “His life wasn’t perfect either.”

Pete Mockaitis
Totally, yeah.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, then, tell us, when it comes to the book itself The Coaching Effect, what’s sort of the main idea here?

Bill Eckstrom
The main idea is that leaders need to behave more like an athletic coach to truly maximize their ability to help teams grow and become…or really hit peak performance. And the little subplot to that is that, as a coach, all the things that we used to think were perhaps soft skills, like my ability to create connections based on trust, my ability to create psychologically safe environments, that items like that are no longer a soft skill because we can measure them and correlate your ability to create trust.

How about this? Your ability to create strong relationships has a straight and direct tie to growth and performance. So, we talk through in the book what the most effective leaders, or I will refer to as coaches, what do they do, what are their activities, and how do they do them well. So, it’s kind of like a quantity of a coaching and the quality of the coaching. And so, we have quantified all that and we put it in within the chapters of the book.

Pete Mockaitis
Cool. Okay. Well, then, tell us how do you recommend we get better at creating relationships and making them great?

Bill Eckstrom
Well, we don’t have enough time to go through all of them, but if we use this one, and you picked a good example, Pete, because in the world of sports, of the six things we measure, relationships, specifically how coaches connect with student athletes, and we see the same in the business, too, how a manager connects with their employees, is not good. Of the six themes we measured, it’s the second lowest.

How they do it well is going to be so commonsensical to some people but, yet, it may not be to others. And even the people for whom it’s common sense, they have to question whether or not they’re doing it. So, for example, we know that the highest performing coaches, they do consistent one-on-one meetings. They have career discussions with people on their team. They hold regular team meetings. They provide written…consistent written feedback, not just oral feedback but written feedback.

So, in terms of activities, those are the things that they’re doing. And, while I’m sure nobody who’s listening to this podcast, Pete, is going, “Hey, Bill, let me take notes on that because, man, I’ve never heard of those things before.” That obviously is not the case. At most, people will do one-on-one meetings with people on their team. But how often and how long? And what are they talking about in those one-on-one meetings?

Because to do them well, now we’re back to quality, to do them well, you and I, Pete, when you’re my coach, my boss, my mentor, whatever you want to call me, my manager, if we have a one-on-one meeting and you don’t start off just asking me about me, you might come into the meeting, which is what people complain most about, and say, “Hey, we got a lot to do. God, we’re sitting down here in an hour. Give me some metrics on your goal today.”

Now, all of a sudden, you just care about the numbers. You don’t care about me as a person. I want you to ask me about my new puppy. I want you to ask me about what I did over the weekend. I want you to ask me about my kid’s soccer game. And if you’re not doing that, I don’t perceive that we have a connection. I don’t trust you because you’re not asking me about me. All you’re asking is about the business which benefits you, and maybe, to some degree, might not even benefit me. So, that’s an example of how we connect with people in the workplace or whether it’s on an athletic field.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I like that clear distinction there. Could you maybe walk us through the six things you measure and share real clear contrast in terms of “Hey, this is common practice which isn’t so great, and here’s a best practice”?

Bill Eckstrom
Wow, let me see here. So, in connection, I gave you an example. The other component of relationship, one being connection, the other being psychological safety, which is really a hot topic in the workplace today. And one of the most simplistic methods for creating psychological safety as a leader, as a coach, is to ask questions. We think our ability as a leader, as a coach, correlates to my ability to come up with a great idea, or a great suggestion, or an answer to a great question. When the reality is my value is based not just on my ability to ask questions of the people around me, but also to get them to ask questions. So, that’s one.

Structure is another theme that we measure, and that you set up the processes and the disciplines to create a predictable outcome, or are there no expectations? Do I not understand what my goals are, is there a method to set goals and detract goals? Communication is another thing, well, common sense communication but it comes back to things like, “Do you communicate vision, not just you communicate in the way that I find effective?” In other words, “Do you know if I’d rather have you text me versus email me versus, say, Slack me within my company?” So, it’s customizing communication that’s best for the person.

Then when we get into what we call the complexity themes, and the first one that we measure is called skill development, which kind of speaks for itself. But as my leader, as my coach, “Pete, can you help me,” if I’m in sales as an example, “can you help me improve my skillset as a salesperson?” If I’m a programmer, “Can you help me be a better programmer?” So, developing the skills that are critical for success in my role.

And then the final theme that we measure is challenge, and this is where kind of what my TED Talk was themed around. It’s really what made the book so successful is… while we have all these soft skills that are so important, if you don’t challenge in a healthy way, you’re not creating growth. So, your ability as a leader to make people uncomfortable is something we measure.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, let’s dig into this. How, generally speaking, do we make people uncomfortable in the best possible way?

Bill Eckstrom
Well, if I may, Pete, I’ll, first of all, talk about the worst possible way.

Pete Mockaitis
All right.

Bill Eckstrom
And that is through fear. All these things, when you take all these things together, they create what we call discretionary effort, if they’re done well. That means, Pete, if I’m on your team, and you really show a lot of acumen within all these themes, man, I’m giving you more effort. I am going to work an extra hour. I’m going to be more engaged. When that recruiter calls me, I’m not taking that call, Pete, because I like being on your team, and I love what we do. I love everything about this team.

And if you’re a fear-based leader, you can still get my discretionary effort, Pete, but you’re not going to get it for long because I’m probably going to leave you, which is timely, we can segue down the road here of the great…all the turnover that’s happening in the world today. And we have some research on that too.

So, to create challenge in unhealthy ways is through fear, and that eventually turns into chaos. To do it in a good way is to question, “So, tell me about this goal, Pete, that you gave me. Tell me how you came about to the conclusion of that end objective. Tell me what’s going on in your mind. Okay, great. Tell me if I wasn’t here right now, would you have provided the same goal to someone else? Okay, what would it take, Pete, if you were to add 10% on top of that? Is that something that you could do?” So, that’s an example.

It could be, “Hey, you know what, Pete, I’ve been watching your work, and here’s what I see you do well, A, B, and C. Because you do that so well, I’m going to add D to your plate just to see how you might respond to this added thing.” So, it’s understanding you to where once you have something kind of mastered, think of the world of sports. We’re going to do a drill over and over and over again. But if we just never elevate that drill, eventually, people will plateau, they’ll peak. And the same applies to the business.

And when that happens, how do we amp it up a little bit more? What is one more thing I can put on your plate, one more thing I can challenge you, in a way that I know is specific to you? That’s healthy challenge.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. That sounds good. And so then, when you talk about those challenges, like I’m imagining myself being on the receiving end of each of those questions, and it’s a good vibe in terms of it’s not like kick off your shoes and put on pajamas and chill out but it’s also not terrifying or threatening. It’s just like, “Oh, okay, I kind of got to be a little bit on my toes here, and then share how I did come up with that goal, and why I do or don’t think that an extra 10% is feasible.”

And, in a way, it makes me think, I guess if we interacted this way repeatedly, it would make me realize that it’s not acceptable for me to go in halfway prepared when I chat with Bill about my goals and what I’m up to. That won’t quite work.

Bill Eckstrom
Right. And you bring up an interesting point, and this ties back to one-on-one meetings, for example. So, one-on-one meeting is an activity, but what do I do within that activity to make it a growth event? So, let’s say, a real example, a young woman in our office, and we’re talking about entering the collegiate marketplace. And I happen to mention this because of her background and everything, I thought she might be a good fit. So, I mentioned, “Well, have you ever thought about the collegiate marketplace, college coaches?” And she’s like, “Wow, yeah, that would be pretty cool.” And so, we talked about that a little bit.

And then if I don’t follow up with that in our one-on-one meetings, if I say something, like, “Okay, tell you what, why don’t you create a plan around how you would approach that market if you took on that market?” and then I don’t bring that up at our next one-on-one meeting, then, all of a sudden, the challenge isn’t worth anything, the fact that I challenged her to do something different.

If I go to the one-on-one meeting, “So, why don’t you share with me where you’re at now on that plan so far? Tell me what you’ve been thinking about and talk to me, or show me if you’ve got something written down.” And then she’s got to think, to your point, “Oh, my gosh, Bill, now he’s following up with it. Yeah, okay, I’ve got to be prepared. I got to bring my A-game.”

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, that’s cool. All right. Well, then it seems like each of those questions I liked. I imagine, even if you have good intentions, you’re not trying to rule out of fear, it could be possible to challenge people in ways that don’t go according to your hopes and plans. Could you give us some examples of “Hey, your heart is in the right place, but your word choice is working against you, so fix it”?

Bill Eckstrom
Well, it makes me, right away, think of an interview, the little documentary I saw done with Doc Rivers where he says “Every team, every year in basketball in the NBA, I walk in the locker room, I say the same thing every year. It doesn’t matter if it played for me, before or not, my name is Doc Rivers and I’m human, and I’m going to make mistakes.”

And I think that’s part of what we have to do as leaders in business, is, “Hey, my name is Bill Eckstrom, and I’ve been doing this a long time. And you know what? I’m still going to screw it up.” So, back to your question, “How do we screw it up?” Well, first of all, we could screw anything up, but usually screwups are the result of not knowing somebody.

If I ever crawled into your life, Pete, and I’m your manager, I’m your leader at work, and I don’t know all the things about you, if I don’t know what your goals are, I don’t know what your objectives are, and then I come up with some random challenge, you’re going to be looking at me like, “How does this tie into what I do, who I want to be, here at work?” It just won’t ever click.

But if I can sit down with you and say, “Hey, based on your strengths, which are A and B, based on what you’ve been doing here, based on the direction the company wants to go, I’m wondering if you’d be at all curious into looking at this marketplace?” So, I showed you an example of how to get it right, not screw up, but it could be the opposite of that.

I don’t mention your strengths, I don’t talk about direction, and, all of a sudden, I bring up, “Hey, we’re always thinking about checking out this marketplace.” You’d be, “Okay, why? Why would I take time away from what I do, put me on this task, it’s going to take hours and time away from my successes here because you see I tied it together for you?” So, that’s how we do it ineffectively.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah. Well, thank you. You’ve got another concept which is intriguing in terms of the growth rings. Can you expand upon this?

Bill Eckstrom
So, the six themes I mentioned, those are what we call subthemes, and they roll up in a larger theme. So, there are three primary themes that have to do with the way one leads or coaches that lead to growth or no growth. And the themes are: my ability to develop relationships; my ability to create order, which are systems and processes and tools; and my ability to create an environment, a complex environment which is an environment of challenge.

So, the growth rings depict living environments that either promote or hinder growth. There’s four environments total, two I haven’t talked about. One is chaos and the one is stagnation but we don’t need to spend time on those because those aren’t good places. Just by the words themselves, you don’t want to be there because one creates negative growth, the other can create negative growth or no growth.

So, that leaves us with an ordered environment and a complex environment. And a complex environment is an environment, the only environment where growth occurs because that means I’m being challenged, that means inputs have changed, that means I’m going to be uncomfortable, and growth only occurs in a state of discomfort.

Tying that back to the themes, challenge and skill development are themes that are part of complex environments. Now, I know this is getting pretty heady stuff, but in an order, those themes are structure and communication, providing me predictable outcomes, and that creates comfort. It’s the opposite of discomfort. Predictability correlates to comfort. Unpredictability correlates to discomfort.

The challenge, then, Pete, is that people don’t want to be in discomfort. That’s who we are as humans. But unfortunately, it’s the only environment where growth occurs, so it’s quite a quandary that, “Bill, you’re saying I, as a leader, have to get people in a state of discomfort to grow, but that’s not a place they want to be.” Yes, that is correct, so we better be really good at it.

Relationship comes into play because that allows me to know what makes you comfortable and uncomfortable, when is it a good time for you to be in a state of order or comfort, and when do I know you, and what do I know about you to know when it’s a good time to push you into a state of discomfort.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, that’s good. And so, we’ve covered a number of pointers. Any other sort of top do’s and don’ts in that zone?

Bill Eckstrom
Make your mood predictable if you’re in a leadership role. Don’t ever make your people guess what kind of mood you’re in when you come to work. You don’t want your team, when you walk into the office or wherever it may be, kind of murmur, murmur, “Oh, my gosh, what kind of mood is Pete in today? Oh, gee, I hope he’s in a good mood,” eliminate that.

Pete Mockaitis
Just by being in a good mood always or how do you bring that?

Bill Eckstrom
Well, yeah, being consistent, “I know when Bill comes to work, I know what to expect from Bill. He’s in a consistent mood all the time. He’s never down. He’s never pissed off when he walks in. He comes into the office, he’s always in a positive mode. That’s predictability. That makes me comfortable.”

Pete Mockaitis
Well, Bill, tell us, how does one be always in a positive mood? That seems nice.

Bill Eckstrom
I wasn’t always this way, Pete. I worked hard. I’m very intentional about trying to be in a positive mood. And I was just having a conversation about this this morning with a gentleman. I follow three things very habitually every morning. I have a very strong order that leads to a very predictable outcome.

The first thing I do every single morning is journal, and that clears the mind. It clears the brain. It clears space. I get any challenging things that are mushy in my head, I’d put it down on my computer, on just a Word document. I just shut my eyes and I just begin to, what my coach would call, brain download is what I do. So, every Monday through Friday, I do that. I follow that up with gratitude. So, I open a new document, and that right now is 165 pages long.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, beautiful.

Bill Eckstrom
And every day, I write a minimum of three things I am grateful for or that make me smile. One of those two things, that’s filling one of those two boxes.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And it could just be totally random, like La Croix, or like that happened to you in the last 24 hours.

Bill Eckstrom
Right. Exactly. Here’s an example. The taste of my first sip of coffee in the morning. I’m thankful for that. Grateful for that. When I walked out this morning, the moon and the clouds. Ooh, for how the moon looks in the early morning with partial cloud cover. The smell of a pine tree. Boom. Done. So, that’s part of the equation.

So, I list three gratitudes or things I’m thankful or grateful for or that make me smile every day. Then I go back, say, a hundred pages ago, and I just randomly scroll up the Word document, and I open a page that say, could’ve been 18 months ago, and I read what I wrote then, and here’s what happens. Inevitably, I’ll come across a gratitude or something that made me smile that hits me again.

So, hatching a baby finch is one of the things I wrote 18 months ago that I happen to look at this morning, and I had a memory of they had this little nest outside of our kitchen window, these little finches, and then they had eggs, and then the eggs hatched. They had these baby finches for like 30 days one summer. And just thinking back to that made me smile.

Now, all of a sudden, I’ve done my brain download, I’ve listed three gratitudes, I roll back and look and have other things I’ve been thankful for in the past, and, man, I’m in a good mood. I am ready to get to work. So, then work begins, I get about an hour and a half, two hours work in, and then I go straight to meditation, and this is all before I’ve seen a single person. So, those three things combined – the journaling, the gratitudes, and the meditation – I can’t say never but I could tell you, with 90% accuracy, I start every day on the same level.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s handy. All right. So, not only do your folks have some predictability but you’re feeling good, so that’s awesome. Beautiful. And we had Hal Elrod on talking about some of these habits, and here you are, living them out and it’s rocking for you. That’s cool.

Bill Eckstrom
It’s been life changing.

Pete Mockaitis
Cool. Well, then I guess I’m curious, any final thoughts in terms of when it comes to coaching, growth, leadership, making sure folks are continuing to go up and up and up, before we shift gears and hear about some of your favorite things?

Bill Eckstrom
Don’t ever dismiss the power of connecting with people in your leadership role. I know that may sound cliché and easy but we tell people that all the time, and you’d be surprised. Even people that think they’ve got great connections with the people on their team, assume you don’t. Go crawl into the lives of the people on your team.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Thank you. Now, could you share a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Bill Eckstrom
One I shared in my TED Talk and continually, I can’t ever get rid of it, and it’s not my quote. It is Dr. Serene Jones is who wrote this. And my oldest daughter brought this to my attention and it ties right into the growth rings concept you mentioned. It is, “The constant façade of order hides the wilderness that is craving to seep out and teach us that life wasn’t created to be what we think it is. Beyond words, we must experience the wilderness to be taught what cannot be otherwise known.” So, I have that memorized.

And the other quote that is part of my life today is from Dr. Viktor Frankl. Are you familiar with him, Pete?

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, yup.

Bill Eckstrom
So, the Austrian psychiatrist that survived two years in a concentration camp. Anyway, a favorite quote from him is, “Between stimulus and response, there is a space. And in that space is our power to choose our response. And in our response, lies our growth and our freedom.” Those hang with me every day.

Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite study or experiment or bit of research?

Bill Eckstrom
What we’re doing now on the Great Resignation. Really interesting work. Too long to get into, we don’t have enough time. But, yeah, some really fascinating work on the Great Resignation right now, and a manager’s, leader’s role in that.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, can you give me one startling insight?

Bill Eckstrom
Yeah, those powerful insights I shared in terms of what great leaders are doing to create high-performing teams, they’re doing a lot less of them post-pandemic. The one-on-one meetings which great leaders, the number of them holding, the frequency has dropped about like 20%. The career development discussions have dropped. Team meetings have dropped. So, all the things that created these high-performing teams, they’re doing much less of them, and they wonder why people leave.

Pete Mockaitis
Huh, interesting. And a favorite book?

Bill Eckstrom
Man’s Search for Meaning, Dr. Viktor Frankl.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite tool, something you use to be awesome at your job?

Bill Eckstrom
Mindfulness.

Pete Mockaitis
And is there a key nugget you share that people tend to quote back to you often?

Bill Eckstrom
Growth only occurs in a state of discomfort. My kids say they’re going to put that on my tombstone.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Bill Eckstrom
BillEckstrom.com. EcSellInstitute.com. Our book is The Coaching Effect and that’s the only promotional thing I’ll do is to go get that at Barnes & Noble, Amazon, all the great bookstores. And the TED Talk is just…I get nothing from that. Of course, TED owns it but it went viral and it’s a fun talk. It’s called “Why comfort will ruin your life.”

Pete Mockaitis
And do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks looking to be awesome at their jobs?

Bill Eckstrom
If you want a better performing team, start by looking in the mirror. Because how your teams perform, if you’re in a leadership role, how your teams perform is simply a reflection of you. So, if you want to a higher-performing team, it all starts with you.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Bill, thank you. This has been a treat. I wish you much joy and keep up the happy mood.

Bill Eckstrom
Thanks, Pete. I do my best. Sometimes it’s hard to do all day long but I always start the day the same way.