079: Intentional Scheduling with Jeff Sanders

Pete Mockaitis
Jeff, thanks so much for joining us here on the How to Be Awesome at Your Job podcast.

Jeff Sanders
Well, thank you, Pete. I’m excited today.

Pete Mockaitis
Me, too. Now, I’ve got to know right up front. Is it really true that you eat around a dozen bananas a day, and why?

Jeff Sanders
Yes, it’s true. And the reason why is kind of a long story about dietary shifting for me. But the simple answer is that I discovered through a variety of experiments and testing that I did that bananas became my go-to food because they’re tasty. They’re cheap. They’re easy to transport. I can eat them in large quantities and get full. I put them in smoothies. I love bananas for all kinds of reasons. And so for me, it becomes this go-to food for every single day. Whenever I’m hungry, I’d grab a banana or I make a big smoothie with like 10 in them at once. And so I can have up to 30 bananas in a day before I feel like I should stop.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s wild. And so nutritionally—I’m so curious—is there any downside in terms of, I don’t know, glycemic index, fructose sugar crash with bananas or whatnot?

Jeff Sanders
Well I’m not a doctor, so I can’t give the facts on that one. But what I have read about it is that if you are consuming fruit, for example, any kind of fruit that has obviously sugar in there, fructose, and you have fiber with it as well, your body absorbs that sugar a lot slower than if you had just like a soda, for example. And so as long as you are an active human being and you’re working out occasionally, you can burn off that sugar. You use that for energy, which I do every day when I work out. And so it tends to be a really great system for that. If you’re going to be lethargic or sit around all day and eating a lot of sugar, there could be problems. But talk to your doctor with that one.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Sure thing. Will do. Now, your jam is “The 5 A.M. Miracle.” With the podcast, three million downloads plus. Congratulations. Very impressive.

Jeff Sanders
Thank you.

Pete Mockaitis
And the book. So could you give us the background scoop here, sort of why and how are mornings miraculous, or the 5:00 a.m. time miraculous?

Jeff Sanders
Well, what I discovered through a variety of testing on my own was that early mornings in general are miraculous. 5:00 a.m. specifically was just a time that I chose arbitrarily because it fit really well with my schedule. So this was about probably five years ago. I had a fulltime day job, I had a side business that was growing that I’m doing now fulltime, and I was training for a marathon. And I realized, “I don’t have time to all of these things in a day. I especially don’t have time to train for this marathon I want to do, unless I get out of bed at 5:00 a.m. to go for a run.”
And so I discovered for myself that early mornings became this miraculous time to do the thing in my life that mattered the most to me before anything else showed up that day. And so it became this distraction-free zone where I could really focus in on one thing, get it done, and the rest of my day was that much better off because I did the thing I wanted to do. And so originally, it was marathon training. And then later on, it was business projects or personal projects. And so I discovered that that time of the day has such a great opportunity to take advantage of it.
And most people kind of do what I used to do for many years. You get out of bed the last second. You’re stressed out. You’re snoozing your alarm a million times. The day does not begin in a methodical or peaceful or energetic way. It just begins in a stressful way. And so I made a massive shift to say, “How can I make my mornings more successful and more productive? And how can I get the most value out of that time?” And that’s when The 5 A.M. Miracle really kicked in for me. It was just obvious realization that I can actually just get out of bed early, do something that I really care about, and then let the rest of my day be that much more productive because of it.

Pete Mockaitis
Lovely. And so you said you didn’t have enough time, but I’m guessing that the hours of consciousness were about the same. Did you go to bed earlier? And what time was that?

Jeff Sanders
That’s actually a really good point. It wasn’t that I had more than 24 hours in a day. It was still the same amount of time, but I was using that time more intelligently and I was cutting things out that didn’t matter as much and really shifting my energy to make sure everything fit in in a more methodical way. And so yes, I would go to bed earlier. 9:00 p.m. became my bedtime, or 9:30. Usually, most days, I would go to bed a little bit later. But the goal was always to make sure that I could end my workday at a certain time, usually around 8:00 or 8:30, so I could get to bed, so I could get all the rest that I needed and begin the day the next day with a plan written down, ready to go.
And so every day for me became this much more methodical approach at asking myself, “How can I be intentional with my time tomorrow? What will that look like? What does an ideal day look like for me tomorrow?” And then I would schedule that out and then I would execute it. And preplanning was something I never did before. And when I applied that principle, I realized there’s so much more opportunity that I just was missing because I was either being lazy or I was just assuming I didn’t have time for something, when in reality, I could get a lot more out of my day than I ever thought that I could.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s so good. All right. So you preplanned not even during that morning time but the night before?

Jeff Sanders
Exactly. So I like to end my workday around 8:00 p.m. So before that happens, I want to make sure that I’m looking at the next day and asking myself very simple questions like “What would an ideal day look like? How can I write that schedule down? How can I make sure that my workout clothes are set out and ready to go?” So when 5:00 a.m. hits, I have what I need ready so the next day could begin with a bang.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s good. And tell me, when you started the 5:00 a.m., was it a painful initial transition? And how did you get over that hump? I’m thinking about listeners who are like, “5:00 a.m.? Me? No way. No how. Never.” How do you make the leap?

Jeff Sanders
That’s a great question. There’s two ways that I’d describe it. One is kind of the painful, masochistic way, which is just “Tomorrow morning, 5:00 a.m. Just get up and make it happen,” which is very difficult. And for most people, it does not last because it is so painful and you’re just so tired. The best approach is to do it much more slowly. And so you might say, “My usual wake up time is 7:00 a.m., so tomorrow it will be 6:45.” And then a few days later, 6:30. And then a few days later, 6:15.
And you slowly and methodically move yourself to the ideal wake up time that you want to use. And then from that, you will be much more well-rested. Your bedtime will be slowly but surely a little bit earlier. And when that happens, you don’t feel that effect of being tired or under-rested. You will feel good and be able to make that shift accordingly.
And another thing that I always recommend, too, is if you’re going to get out of bed a little bit earlier, schedule an activity in that time that matters to you. So if you get out of bed 20 minutes earlier, well, then use that 20 minutes to do something that you care about. Do yoga. Read a book. Work on your project, because then you’re going to see. Not only was I out of bed earlier, but I got projects that I usually don’t have time for. And so now my day is that much better.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s good. And so I’d like to dig into a bit of detail there. When you are awake, you’ve got sort of your rundown in terms of what you’re doing in the morning. But what are kind of the general principles and commonly occurring best practices in terms of when this stuff is done first thing, powerful results emerge?

Jeff Sanders
Well, in the morning, I like to prioritize energy. It’s the number one thing that I want to have in place. So as far as for my personal practice and what I’d recommend for other people to do, is to choose the thing that matters the most to you. I chose energy. You might choose something else. For example, with the energy focus, I will hydrate first thing in the morning and then I will let that flow into my morning workout, and then that goes to my morning breakfast. And then all of those things will stack up. And by the time I get to my workday, I have all of this energy ready to go and my workday can begin then a lot more powerfully because I did the things that allow me to scale my morning appropriately.
This obviously will change based on your schedule and your priorities and what kind of projects you want to work on, but choosing a focus is really important to making sure you have what you need ready. So for scaling energy, it works really well for me because I know that it takes me about probably 45 minutes to really wake up every morning, and so in that time, I’m doing things that don’t require a lot of brain cells because I don’t have them available yet.
And so when you realize where you are and what your priorities are, you can create a morning that allows you get the things done that matter the most, in the right order because the order really does matter. But of course, the more that you do this, the more that you can better at it. But choosing those right activities will allow you to optimize the time that you have.

Pete Mockaitis
I love optimizing. So let’s talk about this energy piece. I mean, it seems like that is something that you are famous, known for. I enjoyed checking out your video with the interview, like “You’re the most energetic guest we’ve ever had!” So I’m also all about energy because that for me is kind of the bottleneck in terms of what I can make happen. So hydration early in the morning. It makes sense. I do it. I love it. What are some of the best practices that you’ve identified for keeping energy going? Anything associated with diet or supplementation or taking breaks at certain intervals?

Jeff Sanders
Yeah. There’s a lot that I do throughout the day. Hydration is definitely one of my core things. I mean, right now, I’ve got a full liter of water sitting in front of me. I drink water throughout the day. Another key thing is a standing desk. I moved to that about four years ago, and that is a phenomenal way to keep your energy up throughout the day. I noticed that on days where I don’t have that available, if I’m like at a conference, for example, and I’m sitting down all day, I’m exhausted so much faster because just the actual sitting makes you tired. And so if you’re going to stand throughout the day, your energy will go up because of that.
So you have hydration, standing desk. In terms of nutrition, I do eat a lot of fruits. I’m a vegan, and so fruits and vegetables are a really big part of my diet. And the more of those that I have, the better I feel and the more energy that I get from that. So as much as you can possibly have hydration and nutrition and physical movement throughout the day, those things alone will give you a ton of energy.

Pete Mockaitis
I love it. So I’m also thinking about sort of the morning piece, and there’s a controversial question out there when it comes to email. So you are an advocate for hitting inbox zero every single day, which is ambitious and cool. So along those lines, where do you come out on the email in the morning? Wise? Unwise?

Jeff Sanders
I’ve gone back and forth on this throughout the years. And I find that depending on the season of life that I’m in, it’s either a really good strategy or it’s the worst thing in the world. Recently, I have been checking email first thing because the last probably three months, I’ve been going through this massive website redevelopment and I’ve had lots of technical problems occurring, and so I have been trying to stay on top of those issues and solve problems very quickly. But I’m moving into a phase now where those problems aren’t there, and so I don’t need to check email first thing in the morning. So I’m now postponing it until later in the day so I can really focus my mental energy on what matters most.
And so my best answer to that is it depends on why email matters to you. If it really is the kind of thing you could ignore until later, then you should do that because email can be a massive distraction from your most important work. If email if your most important work, well, then obviously, you spend time on that instead. But the real key is identifying where email fits in your overall priority schedule. And is this actually important, or are you using email like you would Facebook? Is it just a distraction and a thing to take you away from your most important work?

Pete Mockaitis
My take on email (we’ll just get some consultation while we’re here) is that, like you, I am not really firing on all cylinders in the early morning in sort of the first minutes out of bed. And so I’m thinking email is something that I could handle right now, like 20 minutes after arising. And so other tasks require a greater degree or kind of energy, brainpower, kind of with-it-ness. And therefore, I kind of defy. The blogs and email early in the morning is something I dig doing just because I can do it and many things I don’t think I could do.

Jeff Sanders
Yeah. I totally agree. I schedule a lot of activities that don’t require a lot of brainpower during those times of the day where I know my energy is going to be lower. Middle of the afternoon or late in the evening. If I want to do something that doesn’t require a lot of brain cells, that’s the best time to do it. And early morning could be actually a really good time for email, if the emails are easy to process. I’ve had plenty of opportunities where I think that I can do it quickly and then discover there’s a lot more hard work going on here than I thought there would be.
And so it really kind of depends on are your emails just random newsletters from friends, or are these like hardcore, important, difficult to answer emails? Because that makes a big difference in how much energy it requires to process that information and to take action on it. And for me, email is a really important part of my business model. I’m all about communication. I’m all about response time being very quick. And so in order for that to be possible, I need to be on top of my emails and process them effectively, but also put a lot of effort and time into them so that they’re written well and it comes across the way I want it to.
So to that degree, really decide, like how important is email to you? When does it belong in your day? How much energy are you going to put into that? And then from there, you can prioritize your other things around that.

Pete Mockaitis
I like it. And so, speaking of email and distractions, I’d love to hear a bit more on your take for getting sort of distraction-free time. And so a big part of the game for you is “Hey, I’m in the morning and no one else is awake, so it’s distraction-free.” Do you have any other best practices when it comes to getting that focus and blocking out distractions that would rob the focus?

Jeff Sanders
Yeah. Actually, my focus blocks of time. My Fbots, I call them. Those are my most important parts of my day. Whenever I can create that focus block, that is where I know I’m going to be able to get some of my highest quality work done. And so I will schedule usually early in the morning if I can, like right after a workout. I’ll have a focus block of probably 90 minutes and work on something that matters a lot. And in that focus block, I’m not going to have access to email or my phone. My wife works from home a lot as well, and so a lot of times, I’ll close the door and remind her, like “I’m going to be in my focus block,” and so she will not knock on the door during that time. I’ll make sure that I have no distractions.
And with that kind of intentionality around it, and I put on the headphones and I listen to focus music as well, all of these things come together. And the next thing I know, I am completely zeroed in on my work and I get so much more done than I ever would have if I was taking the time to look at Facebook in the middle of my work or answer a question or answer the phone, because all of those things just waste so much mental energy. And you don’t realize it until you have a focus block that goes well and you’re like, “Oh my gosh. I just got so much done in the last 30 minutes that otherwise would never have happened before.”

Pete Mockaitis
That’s so good. And so I’m curious to know then. 90 minutes. That’s reminding me of a little bit of the Power of Full Engagement or Human Performance Institute kinds of stuff. Is that how you think about focus blocks of time, is around that timeframe, and then a certain rest period? Or how do you navigate and allocate those minutes?

Jeff Sanders
It probably depends on the kind of work that I’m doing. I know that in general, I can’t really focus that intensely for more than 90 minutes. I usually need a break around that time. I’m also a really big fan of breaks. I take breaks probably every hour to every hour and a half anyway because I need to change projects every now and then because I get kind of burned out that fast. But if I can have an intense focus block and get a lot done, it also reenergizes me to want to continue that work. So after a quick break, I can come back and keep going.
And so that’s really my goal is to figure out how can I maintain my enthusiasm for my work and my energy towards it without getting burned out on it? And so a focus block can be really intense. And so I try to make sure that I’m monitoring my energy levels throughout that process so that I can stay focused throughout that time, and then, of course, maintain productivity throughout the entire day.

Pete Mockaitis
I like it. And so when you’re taking a break, roughly how long are they? And what do you find is kind of maximally recharging in sort of a short midday break?

Jeff Sanders
My best kind of breaks are doing the exact opposite of what I was just doing. So if I’ve been on the computer, then I’m going to go outside for 20 minutes or go make some food or go talk to my wife or go do something totally different than what I’ve done, because I need to almost like shut my brain down from that task to come back fresh again later. And so whatever I’ve been doing, I try to mix it up as much as I can. I love variety. I love to stay busy throughout the day. I might do some laundry if I need to do some household chores.
Whatever I can do to not do that previous thing helps me to then re-engage with it when I come back, because I need that real detachment from the activity. It’s also good for my mental energy as well because I really don’t want to do the exact same thing all day long because then I lose the creativity and I lose the ability to really stay engaged long term.

Pete Mockaitis
Got you. Okay. And so can you tell us a little bit… You’ve got a 7-step productivity blueprint. What are some of those key steps?

Jeff Sanders
Great question. The whole 7-step system is based on this idea that you want to be as productive as possible throughout your entire life from a very big picture standpoint. So in the middle of these seven steps is your morning routine and kind of the day-to-day stuff. But the whole thing begins with knowing your grandest goals in life, like what are you actually trying to achieve? What’s the point of you doing all this work? And once you’ve established that, then you can dive into the actual specifics behind scheduling time to work on those grand goals.
And so for me, I like to schedule everything based off of what I call a quarter system or three months chunks. So instead of having long term, like annual goals, I have everything broken down much shorter term. The very longest I’ll schedule a project is 90 days in advance. Usually, it’s much shorter than that. Usually, it’s just the next 30 days or the next two weeks. And that’s all I focus on. I don’t try to think much further ahead than that because I can’t predict the future and I cannot predict how this next project will go. And so because I know that life is so unpredictable, I just ask myself, “What’s the next most important big step to take? And how can that next big step get accomplished as soon as possible?”
And from there, I try to focus in on just that one thing and focus all my energy on it every single day. My daily schedule. My weekly goals. My monthly goals. It’s all based on getting that one thing done. And then if that happens, I get so much more success and so much more desire to continue that kind of work because it escalates so quickly. And then I feel much more productive that I want to add in the next goal after that fact. So this whole thing is based off of knowing “If this my main goal, how can it be my number one priority all the time so that I zero in on that one thing and make sure that every day, every week, every month, I’m working on it, I’m reviewing it, I’m optimizing it?” And with that kind of focus, it’s incredible how much you really can get done.

Pete Mockaitis
That sounds very exciting. So the number one thing that you’re focused on, your priority. And so I guess I’m just thinking, “Boy, there’s so many demands.” And kind of recurring demands at other times. So if you’re a podcaster, you’ve got to get the episodes going on a steady, regular release schedule. So there’s a little bit of that always. And then there’s clients and friends and family and other obligations sort of happening always.
So I often sort of daydream or fantasize about being able to have like a whole day or a whole week or a whole month just to work on X, one thing. But in practice, it’s really kind of tricky to pull off. So when you say it’s your number one priority, you select something on a 90-day or shorter cycle to zero in on, roughly how many hours, say, a workday are you mustering to that one thing?

Jeff Sanders
It’s a great question. Actually, I was just thinking about this same concept a few weeks ago because I was at a conference that was three full days of activity where all I did was that one thing for three days. And I came back wondering, “How did I manage to block so much time out for that conference, when in reality, I don’t do it for myself generally when I’m working on a project?”

Pete Mockaitis
Right. Yes.

Jeff Sanders
And we have a vacation. We have a conference. We can schedule large blocks for things we care about. And so that question becomes “Well, then, do you really care about this current goal you’re working on?” And I think that if you have the opportunity to schedule a full couple of days to work on something, that can be incredibly powerful. But on a regular kind of systematic way of living, my lifestyle, my general ideal week, I’m not going to have seven full days to work on one thing.
And so you’re right. I’ll have podcasts to work on. I’ll have family things. I’ll have all kinds of other things going on. So I’ll try to do batching of certain activities. So I might say that, for me, Mondays are podcast days in general. That’s where I work for my show for the next week. On Tuesdays, that’s where I really try to kick in with my most important project for that week, which tends to be my grandest goal for that quarter. And so I’ll try to work on that on Tuesdays. And then I have other things scheduled. Wednesdays and Thursdays tend to be more of like interview-based things like we’re doing today.
And so I have these batch days set aside for here’s when those kinds of activities will take place. And then on the weekends, I have more personal things planned. But sometimes, those personal days become workdays if I really think that I care about this project enough. And so it’s really about deciding ahead of time how your ideal week will look and where those big chunks of time can be scheduled and those blocks are being moved around, so you’re always spending as much time as possible on that thing that matters the most.

Pete Mockaitis
Cool. Well, is there anything else you want to make sure that you put out there before we shift gears into the fast faves?

Jeff Sanders
Well, I would just say this as kind of like a final note. The whole concept behind The 5 A.M. Miracle or being productive really is just about saying “I have identified in my life what it is that I want, and I’m going to do whatever I can to make sure that those things occur.” It’s so easy to be distracted. It’s so easy to spend time on things that other people care about or that you think are important but you know intuitively don’t align to what it is you really want in life. And so you have to make some really tough calls and say no to a lot of things in order to guarantee the time to do the things you care the most about.
And I’ve gone through a massive minimalism phase in the last year of my life, where I’ve been cutting things out like crazy, and that has had such a dramatic effect on my life to be able to spend more time on the things that actually matter. And so if you’re going to look at your ideal week or trying to schedule in the things that matter the most, ask yourself what can be cut because that’s going to create so much time for the things that genuinely matter, and then that’s where the success will really occur.

Pete Mockaitis
Thank you. All right. Well, could you start us off by sharing a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Jeff Sanders
My all-time favorite quote that I’ve referenced a ton is from Albert Einstein, which is “In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity.” And so for me, that really just refers to the fact that I am going to find something great out of whatever bad thing seems to be happening to me. There’s always a lesson to be learned. There’s always some benefit to be had. And so if I can really focus on that, then it allows me to turn something that seems bad or difficult into an opportunity and into something that’s really positive.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s really cool. And I would even add to that. When I am working on something and it’s hard, it just takes a lot, I stop and think most of the people are not willing to do this, and therefore, it’s like I have a competitive edge by engaging in this thing. So with that effort, it is indeed indicative of “Oh, here’s an opportunity. I’m doing the hard stuff other people aren’t doing, and therefore, cool things are emerging.”

Jeff Sanders
Oh, definitely. I love that. That’s a good thought.

Pete Mockaitis
Many layers. How about a favorite study or experiment or a piece of research?

Jeff Sanders
Favorite study. I can’t name the exact study, but this goes back actually to my dietary transition, when I was learning about fruit and vegetables and about all the benefits of eating positive nutrition. The book “The China Study” is actually the best one I can think of now. That’s the exact same timeframe I was going through this big phase. That book discusses this whole concept of these people that were studied in China with this massive shift in their nutrition and the way that they were living for a long time.
There’s so much benefit to eating in a way that Americans in general don’t eat. I think there’s a lot of power in studying other cultures and studying other ways of life to find things that could work for you. I’m not saying you have to eat a certain way, but to consider the possibilities that other people are doing things in ways that may be better than the way you’re doing it.  And there’s so much to be gleaned from that.

Pete Mockaitis
Lovely. And how about a favorite book?

Jeff Sanders
That’s a tough one. There’s lots of favorite books. The one off the top of my head right now that I’ve read again recently is the book called “Ultramarathon Man” by Dean Karnazes. He actually was on my podcast before because he’s a phenomenal runner. He has run ultramarathons in every continent. And that book specifically is extraordinary because it goes through these amazing stories that he’s gone through to be this amazing runner. And whether you want to run or not doesn’t really matter. The book is incredibly inspiring. Just his ambition and his willingness to do things that are hard to do. I just love that book.

Pete Mockaitis
Cool. And how about a favorite tool, something that you’ve found helpful in your productivity and effectiveness?

Jeff Sanders
Every single day, I use a tool called Nozbe. It is my digital task manager, so it’s the thing that I use to manage all of my tasks, all my events, all my appointments. It is my go-to for just about everything I’m using to schedule my life. And Nozbe is an amazing little tool.

Pete Mockaitis
Fun. And how about a favorite habit, a personal practice of yours that’s really been helpful?

Jeff Sanders
Oh. I think there’s a lot of those. I would say the one recently that’s been important to me is my daily smoothie. I have a Vitamix blender and I’ll make a big smoothie for breakfast every single morning. And I love having, once again, the bananas and the other fruit. I love having them on my smoothie.

Pete Mockaitis
And how about a favorite resonant nugget or thing that you share in a speech or a book that really seems to connect and resonate with people in terms of a little quotable or tweetable gem?

Jeff Sanders
This goes back to what I said in the beginning. I like to say a lot to plan tomorrow on paper tonight. So in other words, you’re going to ask yourself, “How can I write out,” if you can, handwrite the whole thing, “what you’re going to do tomorrow on paper tonight?” because when you do that, that really just activates this intentionality that otherwise may not have been there, to say “This is how tomorrow will run, and this is how I’m deciding now what I’m going to be doing,” because then when tomorrow does show up, the tendency will be to do whatever is most distracting. But if you already have that written schedule, that plan that you’ve made that you’ve committed to, it’s so much easier to get yourself back on track and stick to the plan.

Pete Mockaitis
Lovely. And what would you say is the best way to find you? If folks want to learn more and check out your stuff, where would you point them?

Jeff Sanders
Jeffsanders.com is the place to be with all of my podcasts and book and everything else I’m working on.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And do you have a favorite challenge or parting call to action that you’d issue to those seeking to be more awesome at their jobs?

Jeff Sanders
Well, I would say be more intentional with your time. I mean, that’s the one nugget that I love to go back to. I think that when you take the time to really ask yourself the tough questions around “What is it that I actually want, and how can it be possible?” it really is just about making those decisions and saying, “This is what I want. This is how I’m going to get it,” and then actually following through in your own advice to yourself and doing it. It’s so easy to have fantasies and dreams, but just say “This is what I want.” Write it down. Decide on it. And then just go get it.

Pete Mockaitis
Perfect. Go get it indeed. Jeff, it’s been so fun. I wish you tons of luck, and keep on rocking with your 5 A.M. Miracle brand and speaking and good stuff. It’s been a lot of fun.

Jeff Sanders
Thank you.