Self-Awareness Archives - Page 3 of 13 - How to be Awesome at Your Job

Pete Mockaitis
Tracy and Tim, welcome to How to be Awesome at Your Job.

Tracy Maylett
Thank you. A pleasure, Pete. Thank you.

Tim Vandehey
Thanks. Thanks very much.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I’m excited to dig into the wisdom of your book, Swipe: The Science Behind Why We Don’t Finish What We Start. I am guilty of starting a lot of things that are unfinished, so I’m particularly jazzed to get into this. So, maybe, for starters, could you share, was there a particularly surprising or counterintuitive discovery you made while researching and putting together Swipe?

Tracy Maylett
This was interesting. We didn’t set out to start writing a personal book about finishing what I, as an individual, start. We originally set out to think about why people are leaving organizations or disengaging in organizations. So, to answer your question, I think the big aha for me, as we went through this, was this is not just about the workplace. This desire or inability to continue what we start is actually something that’s applicable to ourselves as individuals, not just only in the workplace.

Tim Vandehey
Tracy and I have done two other books prior to this together, with me as a ghost writer. And we got together at the very beginning of 2020, really before the world shut down, and talked about, “Okay, what’s our third book going to be?” It was intended to be the same kind of collaboration. And we came up with this idea about kind of the metaphor of swiping your smartphone as a shorthand for the distract-ability of, in this case, the employee. We’d done two books on the employer’s responsibility for getting people to engage.

And so, we had this idea, and we liked it. We went away to our own little personal writing caves, and started making notes, and working on things. And, at some point in the summer, the COVID summer of 2020, we connected and we said, “This is a bigger book than just about employee engagement. This is something everyone does.”

And coming from the world of writing, I’ve been a freelance writer for almost 29 years now. My life is filled with people who have tried to start books and never been able to finish them. So, it immediately resonated that, “This is a universal thing.” I remember our conversation, I was sitting in my backyard, I said, “This is a bigger book, isn’t it?” And Tracy agreed, and we realized it was this was universal.

And so, that’s what we discovered not long after we came up with the concept, was this was something applies to just about everyone.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. So, the ghost comes out of hiding. It makes sense.

Tim Vandehey
Yes. I don’t show up on film, which is a problem.

Pete Mockaitis
Anyways, your whole career is built on this principle of people not being able to finish what they have started.

Tim Vandehey
That is very true. Yeah, yeah.

Pete Mockaitis
So, that’s a fun perspective there. So, lay it on us in terms of the idea, what do we mean precisely by swiping? And can you paint a real clear picture for all of us there?

Tim Vandehey
Well, the idea behind the Swipe, again, we started off borrowing from the analogy of swiping on a smartphone. The swipe, as we call it, and swiping, the verb…

Pete Mockaitis
Swipe, swept, has or has swepened.

Tim Vandehey
Yes. Well, we haven’t really gotten into swept, haven’t really gotten into the past participle and so on. Nice to meet a bigger grammar nerd than myself. This idea that when we are confronted with an uncomfortable situation, or with discomfort, particularly, in this case, as it pertains to attempting things that we have not been able to do yet.

So, when we find ourselves disillusioned, embarrassed, doubting our abilities, etc., rather than stick with it, we take a cue from the smartphone, let’s say, where it’s very easy to change your experience, sort of change your reality, just with the tap of an app symbol or the swipe of a finger. Boom, you’re immediately onto something else.

So, the swipe, that reflexive, what I like to call hitting the eject button, from whatever it is you’re doing that’s making you uncomfortable. And in the case of what we’re talking about, it’s attempting something that you may not have done before, and you reached that point where you’ve written 50 pages of your novel, and suddenly you have no idea where to go, and you say, “Ah, to heck with it. I’ll try this again later.” That’s what swiping is, it’s that reflex of, “I’m not comfortable where I am. I’m going to immediately, reflexively change my reality so I don’t have to deal with that discomfort.”

Tracy Maylett
And we started in the workplace here. This is all about, this was pre-Great Resignation. This was, as we’re starting to look at what’s causing people to disengage in their jobs. It was based on a 50 million survey, employee survey responses, so this is not a small dataset, saying, “Why are people leaving their jobs when these were once wonderful jobs, and these are great people?”

We don’t show up to work thinking, “I sure hope today is awful. I hope the life gets sucked out of me in my job today.” That’s not natural human nature. The same thing when we’re at home. Also, we don’t begin projects with the idea that, “I’m going to not finish this project.” So, as Tim mentioned, it’s very reflexive. The swipe is reflexive. We don’t take this time to stop and think about it. And this book is really focused on that reflex and how to avoid that reflex.

Pete Mockaitis
And I feel that in terms of it’s like procrastinating except broader. I think it’s how I’m hearing and receiving that, in that I might be doing a thing, it’s kind of hard, it’s kind of unpleasant, it’s like, “Well, let’s just maybe process some emails instead. That’s easier.” So, I have shifted my reality. If it were on the smartphone, I would swipe. On a Mac, I would Command Tab. It’s like we’re just going to move away from that window, and onto another window of experience, which feels a little bit more manageable here.

So, I’m imagining that is not optimal for human wellbeing and thriving. Could you paint a picture of just what are the consequences when this is a habitual reflexive lifestyle for folks?

Tracy Maylett
Let’s talk about the neuroscience piece here for just a moment. Swipe actually changes the way our brain functions. When you think about it, what’s happened with technology over the last while, it’s even changed the way we read. We read differently. We don’t read left to right. We read top to bottom. And what causes us to do is move through pieces very, very quickly.

Also, we’ve come to an age where we’re making very, very quick decisions in the things that we do. We don’t take the time to stop and think something through. That’s the nature of the swipe. It’s very reflexive. It’s something that we have become natural at, something that’s new to us. And because of that, that changes our entire thought patterns and the things that we do. One of the reasons that we decided to go down this route was Tim was looking to this and started talking about the pain and the regret that this causes.

We find some interesting statistics in the workplace, for example. Right now, there are a number of statistics to show when somebody does leave that job, when they swipe past that job. We’re seeing that as many as 30% of those individuals, within the first 90 days, quit the next job or regret that next job. So, we develop patterns in our own lives. Those patterns become a part of who we are.

Tim Vandehey
The other thing, I think, to continue Tracy’s neuroscience track, is that what we also found is when there’s the idea of mastery. The more you do something, the better you get at it. I’m not going to cite the whole Gladwell 10,000 hours thing. That’s been debunked. But the idea is if you follow through on something, you get better at it.

What we found is that that really only applies when you get past a certain point, when you finished, when you’ve finished something to completion, typically, because you have to get all the way through that awful first draft of your novel. To know what you’re doing, you have to get through that workout program to understand how your body has been changing, and how to do it, how to work out in the future.

And what we found is that when people swipe repeatedly, because this is a repeated phenomenon. That’s one of the things that distinguishes it from procrastination is most people, they don’t quit something, they don’t swipe on a goal once. They go back and try it again and again and again, usually, from the same strategy. They don’t really make changes, and think, “This time I’ll do better.” And they end up doing the same thing.

And over time, what happens is we don’t become good at the task we keep attempting and failing at. We become good at swiping. We become good at bailing out of the boat when a couple of holes get poked in it because that’s what we’ve done repeatedly, is we’ve jumped out and away from that task because we felt some sort of emotional response that made us uncomfortable.

Tracy Maylett
We even end one of the chapters by saying when we continue to swipe, we practice, and we practice, we become good at it, and the only thing that we actually master is the swipe itself.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. So, can you share with us perhaps an inspiring story of someone who was habitual swiper, and then had a turn around?

Tim Vandehey
That’s a good question.

Tracy Maylett
One of the things that really impressed me as we were starting to write this book is Tim brought up this concept of National Writers Month. And the concept that we have an opportunity here for people to actually finish something, finish what they actually started. And the numbers, to me, was just staggering. Tim, it was just amazing to see the number of authors that really get in.

Tim Vandehey
That’s actually a great example. That’s a great example. That was probably the thing, the idea that inspired the book. I don’t know if you’re familiar with National Novel Writing Month.

Pete Mockaitis
I’ve heard of it. So, you write a novel in a month?

Tim Vandehey
Yeah, if you can suss that out pretty easily but, yeah. So, I think they came up with it, God, back in the early ‘90s, I think. But, basically, the gist of it is you sign up to write a 50,000-word manuscript in 30 days in November. It happens every November. You have to write the book within the 30 days. Quality is not an issue. The idea is to finish something, which tells you how compelling the idea, at least in the world of writing, in my world, the idea of finishing a book is, and how much of a Holy Grail it is.

So, 250,000 people have managed to not swipe during that month of November and finished something. Now, most of the books, from what I understood, I’ve read a couple, they’re dreadful as you would expect. Now, there had been a few, Sara Gruen’s Water for Elephants was one that was written that as that was a National Novel Writing Month book, and I think that was not only a New York Times bestseller but I think it became a movie. I think.

But that’s the best example I know because that’s a lot of people who have managed to do that, something that they’ve struggled with, in some cases, for decades. And that points to something, if I can transition, because that’s a logical transition, to some of the preventive issues that we have figured out in writing this book that can keep people from swiping. They are on display during National Novel Writing Month in spades.

Pete Mockaitis
Lay it on us.

Tim Vandehey
There are really two issues. One is expectation management. The other is motivation management. So, what we have found is that people who go into a task, and it could be their tenth time, it doesn’t matter. If they have erroneous expectations, false expectations, expectations that’s not based in reality, they are far more likely to swipe, to quit, because, of course, they go into it naïve, possibly.

I remember when I tried to write my first book, I can’t remember how long ago it was, I had no idea how hard it would be past the burst of energy. And it was gut-wrenching after maybe 35 or 40 pages. We actually use a term, page-one energy, to talk about this enthusiasm. The enthusiasm of the naïve before they realize what they got themselves into.

So, with National Novel Writing Month, again, to go back to that example, the whole culture of the things is, “This is going to be hard.” And people lean into how hard it is. They have the last week, the whole country is dotted with National Novel Writing Month sort of sleepovers where people get together for a week and just write, and write, and write, and get little snatches of sleep, and sleep on the floor in sleeping bags. And it becomes kind of like camp for crazy people.

So, the expectations are managed. You go into it knowing “This is going to suck,” or, “These are the results I’m going to get.” The analogy I like to use is working out. You go into a workout program, and you think, “I’m going to be jacked after a month.” And then you look in the mirror after a month, and you’re not jacked, you might’ve lost a little bit of weight, but you don’t look like The Rock.

If you actually had an expectation, you’re likely to say, “Forget it,” throw up your hands, “I’m done. This is stupid.” So, expectation management is incredibly important. The second part is about motivation. Why are you doing this? Are you doing it because you’re envious of someone else who did? Or, you think you’re supposed to? Or, your family expects you to do this? Or, what’s the reason? Because the motivation is what you need when you hit those roadblocks to keep you going.

And National Novel Writing Month, the motivation is, “I’ve told a whole bunch of other people in my community…” because the organization has little chapters all over the country, “…all these other writers that I’m going to do this, so they’re going to hold me to it. And I really want to do this but, more importantly, I don’t want to be embarrassed in front of all the other people who are going to keep going and keep doing it if I slack off, then I look like a loser and they don’t.” So, motivation matters.

And when people get both of those things right, it’s not to say they won’t swipe, they still might but they’re much less likely to.

Tracy Maylett
As we were looking to writing this book, and Tim corrected me on this as we were doing it, which was wonderful because, through my work, working with people at tops of organizations and Tim’s opportunity to meet lots of really cool people through his authoring, one of the things we started to do, or I started to do, is throw in examples of really high-profile people, these individuals who everyone knows are three-time Olympians, etc.

And we started looking at this, and saying, “That’s fantastic,” and people are setting their sights on that, and they’re seeing these wonderful powerhouses. But the reality is every single one of us still witnesses this at some point in their lives and multiple times in our life. This is not written for that, “How do you go win the bobsled race in the Olympics?” This is really written to that individual who is trying to complete something who’s not been able to do that, and is now suffering those negative effects because of that.

Pete Mockaitis
Understood. So, this notion of the expectation and the motivation making all the difference seems quite resonant. And I’m thinking about, are you familiar with Andrew Huberman with the Huberman Lab?

Tracy Maylett
No.

Pete Mockaitis
I feel like I talk about him nonstop. Well, he’s a neurobiologist out of Stanford who’s got a huge podcast, so he’ll just multi-hour conversations about different topics in biology or science and science-based tools for everyday life is his thing.

And so, he has millions upon millions of downloads and views and all that, but he mentioned, I think it’s intriguing that what he calls the Holy Grail of motivation is if you can find motivation in a form of enjoyment in the pain and suffering and challenge of the things, and he holds up David Goggins as archetypical example here, super ultra marathon, Navy Seal, like hardcore pain experiences over and over again, and to find a sort of a fuel and enjoyment and motivation within that.

And what you described here in the writing context, as opposed to like the physical ultra marathon context, is that, “Hey, this is going to be hard. At times, it is going to suck that may require sleepovers to actually pull it off.” And rather than that turning people off, like, “Ugh, no, thanks. I don’t want it. I don’t care to deal with all that hassle,” it’s kind of like, “Ooh, heck, yeah. Aargh, let’s get after it.”

Tim Vandehey
Yeah, it’s a shared experience. Well, it’s funny because I’d done a lot of writing in the endurance sports world, not recently, but in the past, and one of the mottos of marathoners, and ultra marathoners, and triathletes, and ultra triathletes is that, “The winner is the one who can out-suffer everybody else.” And, in fact, I did a book for Chris McCormack who was the Australian, one of the best triathletes of all time. And he used to say his motto was “Embrace the suck.”

So, it’s going to suck, accept it, get into it, make it part of the experience, is that you’re going to give yourself over to that, and part of the satisfaction is knowing that, “That really sucked and I got through it.”

Tracy Maylett
Well, you look at that in the workplace also, and as soon as we receive a difficult assignment, or don’t get that promotion that we’re after, the tendency now is to just say, “Okay, I’ll go down the street.” And the reality is it’s the journey that’s the valuable piece here. It’s not just the end state. It’s the suck. It’s the part that was really, really difficult that made those individuals who they are today.

And when they confront that again, now they’ve learned to confront that. If I am in a workplace, and after two months I have a project that I don’t necessarily enjoy, well, yeah, that’s part of life, that’s what we deal with. But it’s those pieces that are difficult that make us who we are. And this is really about to value those pieces, embrace those pieces that may be more difficult because that’s what really builds the character and builds that individual.

Tim Vandehey
Yeah, one of the things that we probably, if we had more time and more pages, we would’ve looked at what happens to someone after they don’t swipe, after they actually finish something that they have been trying to do for a long time. And, again, going back to National Novel Writing Month, one of the things that they found is success in that area becomes kind of addictive. You did it once, you’re going to go back and do it again and again.

There are people who have written 20 novels through that program. I have no idea if any of them were any good, but once they know they can do it, it becomes kind of intoxicating. I have no data on this, and we didn’t look at it, but my guess would be that’s probably true for a lot of people in a huge range of endeavors, that once you actually able to get…especially if you’ve failed a lot, if you’ve swiped repeatedly, and you finally hit the finish line.

I’ve been at the finish line of the Ironman World Championships in Hawaii and watched people who managed to finish their first Ironman. The age groupers have to finish in under 17 hours, and they finished at 16:55 the first they’ve been able to do it after multiple failures. All the pain goes away. They could not care. Their bodies could be falling apart. It’s absolute exultation because they finally made it. It’s amazing.

Pete Mockaitis
Beautiful. Well, you also have a bit of an acronym to help us cure swipe – MAGIC. Can you walk us through this?

Tracy Maylett
Yeah, MAGIC was based on our work with employee engagement, what causes someone to engage in their job. So, looking in the opposite side of this, we know what causes people to swipe, what causes people to stay. Now, this isn’t just specifically towards employment. This is any relationship. This could be with my children. This could be in my community. It could be in a workplace, but the idea here is when these five elements, and MAGIC is an acronym, when these five elements are present, I will tend to engage.

And the degree to which these are important to me, some may be more important than others, and the degree to which these are fulfilled will cause me to choose whether or not I’m engaged and will continue forward. So, that acronym is MAGIC, M-A-G-I-C. The first of those is meaning, so the M is meaning. When I find purpose beyond just the job itself, or when I find a reason why I choose to learn the piano, etc., there’s something that’s valuable to me, a purpose, I will stay and I will continue to do what I’m doing.

The second piece is the A, which is autonomy. Autonomy is not anarchy. That’s not our A. Autonomy is to be able to use our abilities in the best way possible, have the freedom to do so. So, in the workplace, it does not necessarily mean I have free rein of anything I want to do but I’m able to channel my skills and abilities to make that happen. That happens in a marriage, that could happen in any relationship that we have.

When I use my abilities, then the next piece happens, which is G, growth. The opposite of growth is stagnation. If I’m stagnating in a community, if I’m stagnating in a workplace, I will disengage, I’ll swipe, I’ll move forward. The I stands for impact. Impact is seeing the results of your effort. So, if I continue to work out day after day after day, and I’m not seeing a result of my effort, the likelihood of me swiping is going to be pretty high. So, we measure that, we gain tiny successes along the way.

And the final piece of that is C. The C which is connection. Connection is a sense of belonging to something beyond just yourself. That could be a social connection. One of the reasons why the National Novel Writing Month is successful is not just I’m buckling down. It’s that I’m commiserating with other people. Other people are doing this with me at the same time, that ability to establish those connections, connection to the workplace, connection to the environment that I’m in.

When those five elements are present – meaning, autonomy, growth, impact, and connection – that’s kind of the anti-swipe. It keeps me from moving forward. This was based, again, on we started with 14 million employee survey responses, and moved actually to 50 million employee survey responses, but we found that that’s not just the workplace phenomenon. It happens in our lives as well. And so, that’s kind of what we saw as one of the areas for anti-swipe.

Tim Vandehey
Speaking of the anti-swipe, and related to what Tracy said about the workplace, the sort of counter-phenomenon that we defined in the book, as opposed to the swipe, was something we called tapping out. And that is especially relevant when it comes to the workplace. It’s relevant in other areas as well. But where a swipe is a reflex that comes from discomfort, from fear, embarrassment, disillusionment, etc., and usually leads to regret because the things we swipe from are generally things that are good for us and that we want to do.

We really want to finish that book. We really want to get in shape. We really want to save money, etc. A tapping out is an affirmative act. Tapping out is not reflexive. We’re choosing to walk away from a situation that is bad for us.

Pete Mockaitis
You’re in a chokehold, you’re starting to black out, I think now would be a good time to stop.

Tim Vandehey
So, now the example I like to use is not a workplace example but it’s perfectly illustrative of this, is the gymnast Simone Biles back in 2020. She chose to walk away from the team Olympic gold in the 2020 Olympics because she was having what they called the twisties, where she was unable to perceive her position in space while she was doing vaults and things, which, of course, for a gymnast can be incredibly dangerous.

And she made an affirmative choice to walk away and choose her own physical and mental health over competing in the events. And there was a little bit of pushback but most people praised her for it. They praised her for putting herself first, and it was, obviously, a decision that she felt good about. That is the polar opposite of a swipe. Tapping out is an affirmative act, you feel good about it, it is not something you regret. It is something when you say, “This is not a good situation for me,” probably most commonly in a job.

Now, the Great Resignation we talked about, a lot of those people probably disengaged in ways that had nothing with to do with anything healthy. Some people probably tapped out because they said, “Look, I’m not being valued here, I’m not being compensated properly, I’m not being listened to, I’m not given opportunities to grow,” and so they chose to go elsewhere, and that is a tap-out, and it’s important to distinguish that from a swipe.

Tracy Maylett
The key difference here is a swipe is, Tim, would you agree with this, it’s purely reflexive.

Tim Vandehey
Yeah, it’s system one. It’s system-one stuff.

Pete Mockaitis
I’d love to get your views then, zooming right into the heat of battle in terms of you’re feeling some discomfort, you’d like to quit or change a channel, any pro tips for right there in the here and now, what do we do to persist?

Tracy Maylett
Tim just mentioned something that’s important, which is system one. This is by the work of Daniel Kahneman. It was really interesting. He said our brain is, really, our mind, is divided into two systems, system one and system two. System one is very reflexive. I don’t stop. It’s a reflex. So, it’s something that I do out of habit, something I do just as a reflex rather than something I have to stop and think about.

System two, the acts that takes place in system two is very reflective. It is something I stop and I think about, I pay attention to, I have to evaluate, I have to take thought that’s in this. So, the reason I’m mentioning these two systems is because swipe is truly a system one reflex. It is, “I don’t stop and think about it. I don’t consider the consequences. I don’t consider my motivations. I don’t consider what really is involved in here, the expectations.”

System two requires that you stop and think about that stuff, “Why am I doing this? What’s important? What would be the end result of this?” So, in the book, we give a series of steps that you can actually go through to distinguish between the two of these, and one of those is to play it through to the end, “If I make this decision right now, and it were recorded on a VCR, how would this movie end?” Do we even do VCRs anymore? “If this were part of a film, how would this film end if I were to make this step right now?”

So, that’s one of the things to consider, “What will be the end result of this action, not just this temporary relief of discomfort? What will be the final result of this?”

Tim Vandehey
And it’s very easy to say that people should do what Tracy just described. Tracy described it perfectly. But we all know that’s a lot more difficult to actually do that in real time. So, a big part, and I think the power of what we did in the book was to simply call out the fact that this phenomenon exists. It’s knowable. It’s somewhat predictable and it’s understandable. And I think the key to being able to do what Tracy described, to play it through to the end in real time is to go into the next attempt at whatever it is that people have swiped from multiple times in the past.

Knowing that this happens, knowing that, “Okay, after I get to page X, I am prone to swiping, I’m prone to panicking, becoming embarrassed, doubting my abilities as a writer, and saying, ‘To heck with it. I’m going to delete this file and I’ll try again in five years or something.’” And to say, “Okay, I’m watching out for when those impulse strikes, and instead of just blindly blundering in, thinking, ‘Well, maybe this time it’ll be different.” The four of the worst words are, “This time it’s different.” They say that in finance a lot.

Instead, saying to yourself, “I’m going to be watching for those signs that I’m feeling that panic reflex,” and instead catching yourself be mindful enough to say, “Okay, hold on. Hold on. What will happen? What am I going to feel if I walk away for the sixth time?” As opposed to, “What if I actually get through this? And what if I do like all the people doing National Novel Writing Month, and I finish this?” or, “I finish this workout,” or, “I train for the marathon and actually run it.” It doesn’t matter.

One of the keys here, that’s why National Novel Writing Month, I keep referring to it, it’s so brilliant, is it’s not about the quality. It’s about finishing. It’s about finally breaking the tape, “And how will I feel when I actually do that?” Odds are people are going to feel pride and tremendous sense of accomplishment.

So, projecting into the future that way, that’s the ultimate preventer, really, and the expectation and motivation things we talked about before help, but, ultimately, you have to be able to catch yourself in real time, and say, “Whoa, okay. Take a deep breath. Let’s keep going because I know if I do, I’m going to be glad I did.”

Because what we see is that overwhelming regret. We talked to someone who’s quit something time and time again, who swiped over and over again. I always hear the same thing from writers, “God, if I had only kept going. If I’d kept going back then two years ago, I’d have two other books written by now.” I hear that all the time, and we all do that, “If I kept working out, I’d be in like the P90X guy kind of shape right now,” etc.

And so, if we can catch ourselves, if we can be mindful that the swipe is a thing, that’s what makes it possible to catch ourselves in real time and make that choice.

Pete Mockaitis
What really comes to mind here, we talked about the reflexive actions versus remembering to stop and think about the consequences, what will happen, projecting into the future, is I had a buddy who wanted to stop vaping. And so, I don’t know if this is a very clever idea, he had a bunch of index cards, and he wrote on each one of them a reason why to stop vaping or how life would be better if he were not addicted to this anymore.

And he placed them on top of his giant vape stick, and so whenever he wanted to reach for it, he had all these reasons, and that was sort of his rule, it’s like, “Oh, well, you’re free to vape, just you have to read all of these first.” And it worked for him.

Tim Vandehey
Yeah, that’s great. There’s a great thing by a comedian Jim Jeffries who talks about gun control. He talks about, “Everybody should have a gun. That’s fine. But everybody should have a musket because the great thing about a musket is it gives you a lot of time to calm down.”

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, yeah.

Tim Vandehey
You’re pouring in the powder before you get a shot.

Pete Mockaitis
I saw a musket in Boy Scout Camp. That was my first firearm shot.

Tim Vandehey
Yeah, the example was a good one. I mean, giving yourself time to let that impulse fade, giving yourself something else to focus on to let that impulse to quit, because you’re always glad you didn’t. You’re always glad, if you keep going, you’re like, “Oh, thank God, I didn’t mess that up.” It’s that moment of panic and fear. A lot of what I see in the writing world, when it comes to not finishing, is self-doubt or embarrassment.

People are embarrassed to let people read what they’ve written or they just get to a certain point, they think, “I’m not a real writer because I can’t get past page 55.” Well, unless you have an outline and a bunch of character studies mapped out, neither can I. I’ve got to have a whole plan before I can do that. I’ve been writing for 30 plus years. So, yeah, that’s very well-taken is finding a way to slow that impulse down and give yourself a chance to say, “Woo, I don’t want to mess this up. I’ve come this far.”

And there also is a sunk-cost aspect to this. The farther you get into something, I think it is harder to swipe because you have more invested. If you’re on page 250, it’s probably a lot harder to swipe than if you’re on page 45, so.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s good. Well, Tim, Tracy, tell me, anything else you want to make sure to mention before we shift gears and hear some of your favorite things?

Tim Vandehey
I think we covered the high points.

Tracy Maylett
I think so but I do want to talk about some of our favorite things here, if we can.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Can I hear a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Tracy Maylett
I’ll start on this one because it’s one that kind of, as we started writing the book, this came to mind, and then all through the book, we used it a number of different times. And we credit a couple of different authors for this one. Just the simple quote that, “Wherever you go, there you are.” And that has a couple of different meanings behind it.

The first one, when it comes to swipe, is if I am the person who swipes at this, and then I swipe at the next thing, and the next thing, that’s who I am. That’s what I do. I swipe. Just moving situations, moving jobs, I’m still the same person moving to a different job, and nothing has changed about me. Swipe doesn’t allow us to change. Swipe causes us to be the same person who we are, and then we expect to be somewhat different in a different environment. It just doesn’t happen. So, that was the first part of the swipe that I had to really understand for myself, “Wherever you go, there you are.”

The second part of that says is when you think mentally here, supposed I’m sitting on the couch with my granddaughter, she’s four years of age, and she’s just fantastic, and she talks and talks. And I may be thinking of something else, and I may be answering texts, and I may be thinking about my workplace. Well, I’m not actually, although my body is physically with my granddaughter, my mind is 2,000 miles away, my mind is on the East Coast, my mind is somewhere else. And that happens a lot.

Swipe can happen mentally also. It’s not just physical doing. I can swipe out of something mentally. I can swipe out of relationships. So, the idea that I might as well be sitting on a couch somewhere in Boston versus Salt Lake City, Utah, that’s what happens when my mind swipes and goes to a different place as well. So, that’s one of the biggest pieces of learning for myself, personally, as we went through here, “Wherever I go, there I am,” the most do context.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite study or experiment or bit of research?

Tracy Maylett
One of the things that I teach, I teach at universities, and it’s been very interesting to work with students, particularly rising generations of students. Some of these are extremely bright individuals. A lot of times we’ll have them do a change project, “Change something about yourself.”

And what’s interesting is that about half of those change projects come back, saying, “I feel like I’d become something different because of social media. Maybe I feel like I’m feel less self-aware. I pay attention to some things that are as important.” Some people were spending as much as five to six hours a day wasting their lives on social media.

Well, social media is not necessarily a bad thing. And this is not a bash on technology but the idea here is that if I’m spending all of my time on a very small screen, I might as well be somewhere else doing the things that are on that screen. And so, some of these real success stories that have come from this is the ability to recognize that, and say, “That’s not who I am. That’s not what I want to be. I want to be in the moment. I want to pay attention to this rather than swiping and going somewhere else.”

So, one of the big successes here is it’s been really interesting to see some of these very, very bright students made changes in habits because they realized that fact that, “That’s where I actually am. My mind is somewhere else rather than here in front of people having a good conversation.”

Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite book?

Tracy Maylett
A lot of some of the research that we’ve done is based on the work of Daniel Kahneman, and really some interesting studies as he’s put out regarding the mind and the brain.

Pete Mockaitis
Alrighty. And is there a resonant nugget, a key thing you share that really seems to connect with folks; they quote it back to you often?

Tracy Maylett
No, just the idea of the swipe, in general. It’s something that people can immediately identify with in their own lives, they say, “Oh, yeah, okay. I get it.” And we’ll give credit to Tim on this title here, the idea that a swipe is something that we’re all familiar with, and that they start to identify, “Yeah, that’s the reason why I don’t finish what I start is because the swiping,” I think it’s just intuitive, and it’s really resonated with people.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Tim Vandehey
SwipeTheBook.com. It has information about the book.

Pete Mockaitis
Shall I steal it?

Tim Vandehey
Yeah, swipe it. Exactly. It’s a command. It’s an imperative. Yeah, SwipeTheBook.com is where you can find reviews. Obviously, the book is on Amazon and so on. Actually, we will be launching a new site here once I finish it, sometime, hopefully, October. So, that’ll have some more goodies on it, I think, a survey and hopefully some videos and some more content.

Tracy Maylett
It has been fun to see the people come up to us, and say, “This was me. This is me. And this has helped.”

Tim Vandehey
Oh, yeah. Everyone I’ve told about this book says, “Oh, I need that,” because I know a lot of writers and musicians, so they’re all artistic flakes to a degree, so.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks looking to be awesome at their jobs?

Tim Vandehey
Well, I would say look at your expectations and look at your motivations. Getting those two things dialed in is critically important, especially expectations. I think people at a job feel motivated by the fact that they don’t do the job, they’ll get fired. But, of course, that just makes someone work just hard enough not to get fired. They don’t necessarily engage. I don’t think people take a good look at their expectations.

By the way, do I get to share my favorite stuff?

Pete Mockaitis
Let’s hear a favorite quote and book, please.

Tim Vandehey
The quote is actually a quote about writing from Stephen King from his book on writing, which is a wonderful treat, it’s on the art of writing. And he says, “Writing talent is like a knife. Some writers are born with God-awful big knives but no writer is born with a sharp knife.” And that’s his way, of course, of saying that talent is one thing, but you don’t get anywhere without a lot of hard work.

Did you ask me about a book?

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, yes, please.

Tim Vandehey
It’s Tom Wolfe’s The Right Stuff. I’ve always thought that’s one of the most brilliant books ever written in the English language. I’m a huge Tom Wolfe fan.

Pete Mockaitis
Beautiful. Well, Tracy, Tim, this has been a treat. I wish you much luck and very few swipes.

Tracy Maylett
Many thanks.

Tim Vandehey
Thank you. It’s been a pleasure.

Pete Mockaitis
Lisa, welcome to How to be Awesome at Your Job.

Lisa McCarthy
Thank you. Great to be here, Pete.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I’m excited to dig into the wisdom you’ve got for us in your book Fast Forward: 5 Power Principles to Create the Life You Want in Just One Year. Can you share with us any particularly surprising counterintuitive discoveries you made along the way putting this together?

Lisa McCarthy
Well, we had to use our five-power principles because we’re in year 11 of our business, and I guess, as of year one, people kept asking us, “When is the book coming out? When are you going to write the book?” and we’d say, “We’re not doing that yet.” And, finally, two years ago, we threw our hat over the wall, which is one of the expressions we used in the book and in our programs, and we just committed to it even though we didn’t know how, and even though it felt like a mountain.

And just like we share our system in the book, we created a vision and then we just said, “What’s the next step? What’s the next step after that? What’s the next step after that?” and getting to every rung in the mountain, we did it. And what makes the book is the interviews. We interviewed 30 people, 30 graduates, and asked them, “How have the power principles in our system made a difference in your life?” and the stories knocked us out. They just knocked us out and really inspired us about the difference the system has made in so many careers and lives.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, that’s cool. Okay, so then, tell us, what sort of the big idea or main message behind Fast Forward?

Lisa McCarthy
The main message is there is a lot of things that you can’t control. People can’t control the economy, politics. We can’t control other people, even though we’ll continue to try. We can’t control the weather but there are so many things we can control. And this book is all about taking ownership of your future, taking ownership of your career, your business, your life, and what’s important to you.

And most years, we run, and we run, and we run, and we run, and we run, and we run, and then we pass out, and then we go on vacation, and then we do it again. So, this book is all about how do you live your life by envisioning a future that really lights you up. And even if you don’t know how to get there, by getting it on paper and sharing it with other people, anything is possible.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And so, you have five power principles here. What exactly do we mean by a power principle?

Lisa McCarthy
A power principle is a tangible actionable step to take so that you can create the life you want in one year. And at the end of the book, we talk about Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz, and Glinda says, “You have the power all along,” and that’s what we believe. So, it’s all about harnessing that power and getting intentional about where you want to apply it.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And could you give us an example of someone who was not working in accordance with the power principles, and then adopted one, and saw some really cool results?

Lisa McCarthy
Well, the majority of the people that do our program, and really the book is based on a program that we’ve done with over 100,000 people, what all of the companies share in common, whether they’re small, medium, large, whether they’re in the United States or whatever industry they may be in, is that they’re fast-paced, high pressure, and dealing with uncertainty and change. So, that’s what all these companies have in common.

So, when you’re in that kind of workplace, people are reactive, people are focused on, “What do I need to get done by Friday in order to keep my job, get some healthy meals on the table, maybe go to the gym?” And so, that’s where most people are when they get to our program. And they may be crushing it at work and often sacrificing what’s important to them at home. They may be kind of calling it in at work because they feel that that’s what they need to do to keep things all the balls in the air.

And so, the majority of the people we’ve worked with will share that this gave them a system to believe an action on that it is possible to design your whole life, to succeed professionally and personally, and not only in terms of outcomes but also your relationships, the quality of your relationships, how you feel when you go to sleep at night, what you’re known for as friend, and a leader, and a parent.

And so, that happens again and again and again every single week. And when you’re a person that’s in the blender or on the treadmill, as we like to say, this is freedom. This is really believing that you now have the power, and people have gotten promoted, changed their career, gotten married, gotten divorced, had a baby, ran a marathon. Like, that’s what’s possible because when you believe it, you then confidently go in that direction to make it happen.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Can we zoom into one story of a particular person and what they did and what they saw?

Lisa McCarthy
Sure. I recently had an executive in the program that is working in Italy. Here’s one example where she felt that she needed to stay in Italy for her husband’s business. And so, her limiting belief was, “This is it for me. I’m going to manage Italy but I’m not going to be able to move up at my organization.”

And one of the things she got in her bold vision, and working using the structure, was that was a barrier she created for herself, that, particularly, after COVID, there’s different ways to lead, and you don’t have to physically move in many situations. So, she wrote in her bold vision, “One year from today, I’m managing an additional country. My scope has expanded. My people have expanded. I’m making more money.”

And then she read her vision to her manager, and, obviously, that requires vulnerability, but it’s putting it out there, it’s saying, like, “This is what success looks like for me.” And then six months later, when that country manager moved on in Spain, she’s now running Italy and Spain. And she actually said, we’re getting testimonials every week, but she actually said, “My marriage is also so improved, but I’m not going to get into those details in this email.”

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Understood.

Lisa McCarthy
That’s one example.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, so what are these five power principles? Can you give us the overview of them?

Lisa McCarthy
Sure. So, the five power principles are in the areas of vision, planning, mindset, and communication because all of those things are things that you can control. So, that’s the focus of the system. The first one is to declare bold vision, which we support people to go a year out. Like, Pete, imagine December of 2024, write down what extraordinary success looks like. And we give people a very tangible actionable seven-question exercise with samples of what a bold vision looks like.

And this is not about fantasy. It’s about committing to things that you would feel so proud and elated to have them be true. And you may not know how to get there, and you could fail, but they’re worth planning for. So, that’s power principle number one. Power principle number two is all about mindset. So, it’s “Choose a new perspective.” And we help you identify disempowering perspectives or stories that we all have, stories about ourselves, stories about other people, stories about your circumstances, your company.

And then if they’re empowering, keep going. Like, “I crushed in that presentation. I’m going to get promoted. I love working with that partnership, the marketing team or the sales team.” But most of the time, people have negative disempowering stories, or often. I don’t want to say most of the time. So, we have people identify the story, then look at the costs. What’s the cost to you of that story? And we have a model that helps you choose a new perspective.

Power principle number three is “Plan the work, and work the plan.” How do we evolve this old vision into an incremental action plan over the next 90 days, where, “If I have a really bad habit, how do I replace it with a good one? What’s going to be different?” Power principle number four is to use language of action. How do you elevate your influence? How do you run a meeting that actually produces an outcome? Because meetings are such a giant pain point. And then, finally, power principle number five is to stop talking, and get curious, which is really game-changing for relationships.

Pete Mockaitis
And then when it comes to choosing a new perspective, can you give us some examples of common perspectives many people have that aren’t serving them very well?

Lisa McCarthy
Sure. So, people say things about themselves, like, “I’m not as smart as my peers.” And what is the cost of that? Because 80% of the universe has impostor syndrome. So, we have this disempowering perspective, “I’m not as smart as these other people.” And there is a high cost to that because you are less inclined to make a recommendation, offer another point of view, so there’s a cost to your self-worth, there’s a cost to your productivity, there’s a cost to your confidence, there’s a cost to your impact.

And you’re busy collecting evidence for, “Oh, my God, I can’t believe what he said. I can’t believe what she said. Like, I can’t articulate an idea in that way.” And when you see the cost of the story, then using our model, can brainstorm other perspectives, such as, like, I’ve seen time and time again, people choose a perspective such as, “I have significant value to contribute,” “I am a very strong asset,” “This team needs me.”

And then you start practicing that and collecting evidence for that, and when you write it down, and you share it out loud with someone else, it makes a meaningful difference. And it’s very important what you say to yourself and what you say to others. So, sometimes people keep disempowering perspectives to ourselves because we’re sabotaging ourselves or we have impostor syndrome as we move up. But other times, there are things, like you have a negative perspective about – this happens often – like the marketing team has a perspective on the sales team, “They don’t get what we do. They don’t appreciate what we do.”

Or, “That executive is incompetent and should be fired.” And you’re collecting evidence for why they should be fired, and the reality is they’re not getting fired. So, there’s a high cost to you, you’re the one that’s going home frustrated. Now you’re complaining to people that can’t make a difference versus taking on a new perspective that, “We need each other to produce the results. It’s up to me to improve this relationship. I really value what they do, and we need it to achieve success.”

So, you’re trying on new stories. And then one about the circumstances, Pete, is most or many people say things like, “There’s not enough hours in the day.” Well, guess what. If you say there’s not enough hours in the day, every day you’re going to feel overwhelmed, and you’re going to be reactive, and you’re going to go to sleep at night exhausted.

However, if you were to choose the perspective, which I do, and we’re always encouraging people in our programs and our company to do, and it’s easier said than done, but just to give you an example since you asked for it, “I have enough time to do what’s important to me.” Now, if I’m looking through that lens, I am going to have to delegate more often at work and at home, I am going to have to say no to things that don’t line up with my vision, and this is possible, I am going to have to decline meetings because I’m going to get thoughtful on Sunday night, “What are the meetings that are really going to be important for me to attend?”

So, those are some of the examples. Choose a new perspective is a game-changing power principle for so many people because we have disempowering perspectives, especially about people, professionally and personally. And many people, and I know you have a slightly younger audience, but as we move up, and we take on more responsibility, and we start families, a lot of people, especially women, have a negative perspective that moving up requires too much sacrifice.

And so, sometimes we’ll choose to stagnate and put a lid on ourselves versus, my own perspective throughout my career, which was, “I’m going to have pressure at every level. I’m going to keep on moving up so I can make more money and delegate.”

Pete Mockaitis

And can you give us some examples of what does this problematic self-talk sound like at times?

Lisa McCarthy
Oh, I’d love to give you an example because everyone has it. So, here we go. “I am so overwhelmed. I can’t believe I said that in a meeting. I’m probably getting fired. Like, I didn’t prepare. I procrastinated. I stayed up till 11:00 o’clock last night watching Netflix, scrolling through Instagram, not doing what I should’ve been doing, and then I said I was going to go to the gym. And, of course, I didn’t go to the gym because I pressed news, and I didn’t have the motivation. This always happens. And I ate all those carbs for breakfast. And I need to call my mother. I’m just such a bad daughter.”

“And I say I want to meet someone but then I don’t even go out on a Friday or Saturday night. And I just lost my temper with my wife, and I have to be more patient. I have to be more patient, and I have to work on my LinkedIn. I have no story. I have to work on my branding but I hate branding, I hate merchandising myself, and I really don’t like networking. And I’m just exhausted.”

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, so now when you talk about impostor syndrome, or inner critic-type issues, when we hear these words or phrases or dialogue inside our own heads, how do you recommend we manage that?

Lisa McCarthy
I recommend, so we have a whole piece in the book, focus on managing your inner critic. And, ultimately, this is how human beings are wired, so we’re not going to get rid of this. And we’ve had so many people in the program say, “But, wait, my inner critic drives me. This is how I’ve come as far as I have.”

And we actually created a distinction that above the line is productive feedback. Like, if you just did a meeting, or you just did a call, or you just did a presentation, like really looking at what worked, what didn’t work, and, “How could I improve?” That’s productive constructive rationale. But then below the line is this ranting, critical, harsh voice that says things to yourself that you would never say to other people.

And we actually recommend writing it down because when you write it down, you actually see it’s not true. It’s just what you’re saying to yourself over and over and over again. If you have the courage, you would share it with one person that you feel safe with out loud. And their job is not to convince you otherwise. Their job is just to listen because when you say it out loud, it’s like it mitigates the weight of it, the significance. It mitigates the significance.

And a lot of times, sometimes people get emotional, like, “How can I treat myself in this way? Like, that’s not okay.” And then other times, I’ve seen people laugh, like, “This is ridiculous. I would never speak to anyone that I respect in this way, and I’m going to stop speaking to myself.” So, that’s step one. Then we give people other recommendations in the book, like focus on your strengths because, a lot of times, people are not.

And if I were to interview every reader of this book, I know that if they were putting together their LinkedIn, there would be two or three strengths that they could identify. And simple things, and this has been so useful, there are so many people that do our program, is to every night, write down three things that you’re proud of and did well, because most of the times, people go to sleep and they feel exhausted. They’re just, like, scrolling through Instagram or watching episode seven on Netflix, passing out, and thinking about the mountain of work, and everything that they didn’t do.

So, take a moment to really fuel yourself, write down three things that you’re proud of or did well in the last 24 hours, not for your six-month review, but in the last 24 hours because we find what we’re looking for. So, that’s one of your practices every day, like going to the gym, or drinking eight glasses of water. Start looking for what you did well. And if you share it out loud, “For a full year, I would call my sister every night and say, ‘Here’s what I’m really proud of. Here’s where I really crushed it today.’”

And, obviously, if you had a crappy day, like you’re not going to fake it, but if you’re taking on that practice, and I recommend every single listener does that, immediate shift.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And I’m also curious, when it comes to working with other people, you recommend we share our goals with others. Can you expand upon that, sort of like the benefits and how we can go about doing that well?

Lisa McCarthy
Yeah. Well, first off, research shows that when you write things down, I think the number is 60% more likely to happen based on one of the studies we used. And then if you share it out loud, that number goes up by 25%. So, most people are goal-setting in a very safe, vague way because their manager told them to.

So, you have to put X number of goals in the system. Sometimes people never look at them again, but there are some companies that are very rigorous about, “Put your goals in the system. We’re going to evaluate you twice a year. We’re going to do calibrations to see who gets promoted.” Companies differ in their approach.

But let’s hope that people are putting down a few goals every year, professionally and personally. We recommend a much more rigorous approach because, instead of setting safe, predictable goals that you know how to achieve so that you look good, we’re actually proposing that you throw your hat over the wall. You could get to a big wall, and you say, “Okay, I’m just going for this, and I could fail, and I may not get all the way there, but I’m going to get further because I went for it, and I dreamed big.”

And instead of keeping your ambitions and your dreams to yourself, and then under-promising and over-delivering, or not saying out loud what you, “I’d love to be in a meaningful relationship,” or, “I’d love to be healthy and lose 10 pounds,” or, “Really, I want to get promoted. I want to get a new job in my company,” or, “Leave my company.”

If you write it down, as if it’s already happened, even if you don’t know how, that’s the whole game. And then if you share it out loud, like, pretend, “Pete, 12 months from now, I’m sitting at lunch with you, this year was awesome. This year was awesome. Let me share what happened and what is happening, what I achieved and how I feel, and the quality of my relationships,” and that’s the whole game.

That’s what I recommend that people write down a bold vision that’s specific, that’s measurable, that’s vivid, that has you feel inspired and uncomfortable, and then you share it with at least one other person, which is going to require vulnerability and courage and it’s worth it.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And in this language that we’re using, internally and with others, and in meetings, and in sharing our goals, I’m curious, are there any particular keywords or phrases you recommend folks use, you love, or words and phrases you recommend folks lose, like they’re problematic and no good for us?

Lisa McCarthy
Well, one of the biggest mantras that’s come out, I don’t know if it’s a mantra, but the first question our bold vision exercise is, “What are you known for?” And most people that are doing, doing, doing, doing, doing are not focused on who they’re being. So, I tell a story that’s true for me, that people, when I was in my 30s especially, I was known for being busy. And the reason I was known for being really busy is people said, “How are you?” I would say, “I’m really busy” in an intense way.

And as a result of that, you can imagine, like, nobody was coming to me with the big idea, nobody was inviting me to things, and I was not accessible, and not present. So, when I did my own personal/professional development work way back in my 30s, and I’m now 56, I realized that that was not okay with me. So, I said, “I am no longer using the busy word.” And guess what? I’m not using the stressed word, and I’m not using the tired word.

So, we have a big sticker in our program that says, “BTS” with a line through it, and it’s not “Back to school,” and it’s not the Asian pop band. It’s “Stop using the words busy, tired, stressed.” And now, if you were to say to me, “Lisa, I know you’re really busy,” I’d say, “I’m not busy. I have enough time to do what’s important to me.” I would say, “I’m in demand or overly fulfilled.” I have my new language to replace that old language.

So, thousands of people are no longer using the B word, and you get to choose your language. Again, back to what you can’t control and what you can control, and there’s days when there’s disappointment. So, I’m not saying, “Don’t feel disappointment. Don’t feel sad,” and all of us, at certain points in our career and in our life, have situations that we really wish were different. But even then, you can choose your outlook. You can say things to yourself, like, “I’m going to be stronger from this challenge or situation, and the future, like everything is going to be okay.”

So, I just think the mantras really make a difference. You can fuel yourself, and so that’s one example of no longer using the B word. And I think in terms of mantras of what people can do, throw your hat over the wall. And that means, when you get to, like, a big wall, which means any challenge or any ambition and dream that you don’t know how to accomplish, throw your hat over, say, “This is happening. This already happened,” because human beings are creative and resourceful, and we will find other people and the strength and creativity within ourselves to make it happen.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, Lisa, tell me, anything else you want to make sure to mention before we shift gears and hear about some of your favorite things?

Lisa McCarthy
I want to tell people to go get our book and get the system. And write a bold vision and not procrastinate, like get their bold vision on paper, follow, it’s a very simple actionable exercise. Read it out loud, and then use the other four power principles to make it happen, to really create the life you want, not the life that you should have, or other people think you should have, but the life that you would really feel so proud and happy to say it’s yours a year from today.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, now could you share a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Lisa McCarthy
I love Abraham Lincoln’s quote, “It’s not the years in your life,” in the end, it’s not the years in your life, “It’s the life in your years.”

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And a favorite book?

Lisa McCarthy
I love autobiographies, so my favorite two, even though you asked for one, but my favorite two in the last year were All In by Billie Jean King, an icon in our country. And I love Open which is by Andre Agassi.

Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite tool, something you use to be awesome at your job?

Lisa McCarthy
Besides Fast Forward, which I use the power principles often, particularly for my own challenges, there is a model I use, which the Harvard Business School share, I have an article from 2015, which is all about debriefing. It’s from the military but we can apply it in any business, and it’s about constantly looking at what actually happened and taking your emotion out of it, and what did we wanted it to look like, what did it look like, and how can we use that learning to have the future be different than the past.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite habit?

Lisa McCarthy
Yoga.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And is there a key nugget you share that really seems to connect and resonate with folks; they quote it back to you often, they re-tweet it, they Kindle book highlight it?

Lisa McCarthy
Language creates reality.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Lisa McCarthy
Our website, FastForwardGroup.net, and my email, which I don’t always go out, but always happy to hear from people that want to create the life they want, lisa@fastforwardgroup.net.

Pete Mockaitis
And do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks looking to be awesome at their jobs?

Lisa McCarthy
I absolutely do. Do not settle. You have one life to live. Create your bold vision. Share it out loud. And make it happen.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Lisa, this has been a treat. I wish you much luck in fast-forwarding.

Lisa McCarthy
Thank you. Great to be here, Pete. It was awesome.

Pete Mockaitis
Greg, welcome to How to be Awesome at Your Job.

Greg Harden
Oh, thank you for having me, sir.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I’m so excited to be chatting with you even though you are Michigan’s secret weapon, as in the Fighting Illini we didn’t like losing to Michigan.

Greg Harden
Well, the Fighting Illini.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s right.

Greg Harden
The always great competitors and most exciting.

Pete Mockaitis
Very much. Well, I’m so excited to get into your wisdom. Maybe, could you kick us off with a particularly memorable story for you in your career, coaching some of the greatest athletes ever?

Greg Harden
Wow. The thing that comes to my mind instantly is, “What’s the difference between all these mega stars and people who don’t make it?” And what we come up with over and over and over is not only were they hungry, they were humble. They were coachable. That made them coachable. They came in with a mindset that made it clear that they wanted to be the absolute best but, most importantly, they came and were able to surrender the ego enough to learn from others.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s good. That’s good. Can you think of a time that, I don’t know, Tom Brady or Michael Phelps or someone you worked with did just that that stood out?

Greg Harden
Tom Brady, I mean, Tom was really clear about what he wanted. He had watched what I had done and what we had done, Desmond Howard and I, and he was curious as to whether or not it could help him. And so, he walked in and he was kind of low in the depths chart, and made it real clear that he wanted to be a starter at Michigan, and I made it clear to him that, “I can’t help you be a starter at Michigan but I can help you understand that if no one else believes in you, you believe in yourself.” And he said, “Let’s start there.”

Pete Mockaitis
All right. That’s cool. Wow. And so then, from there, how do we go from low in the depths to superstar?

Greg Harden
Well, what you do is you start by being a regular schmo who’s going to out-train and outwork everybody. We talk about his gifts, he can’t outrun you, he can’t outjump you, he can’t outlift you in the weight room but you couldn’t measure his heart, and you couldn’t measure his mind. His mental game was so strong, back in the day, you didn’t have all these fancy schmancy phones, we would have to kick him out of the training room where he was studying film all day long, like he was a coach. He had a coach’s mentality and he was a student of the game. He studied and studied and studied, and was more prepared than anyone could imagine when it was showtime.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Now, you’ve put together some of your learnings in your book Stay Sane in an Insane World: How to Control the Controllables and Thrive. Tell us, what’s the big idea here?

Greg Harden
Well, the big idea here is to teach people to become the world’s greatest expert on one subject – themselves. That’s the mission. The mission is to get people to be obsessed with something other than all the things they’re obsessed with. And what I’m asking them to do is focus just for a moment on becoming so critically conscious, so aware, so mindful that you’re able to look at what’s working in your life and what’s not working, to keep it that simple.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Could you give us an example?

Greg Harden
Well, if we’re talking about just trying to make your life work at your job, if your communication style is not working at your job, you need to be aware of it. If members of your team think that you’re arrogant and unapproachable, you need to be aware of it. You need to be so sophisticated that you are always examining how people are responding, you’re always examining how you come across and how others come across, and you’re studying everyone but, in order to really know Pete, I’ve got to know Greg. I’ve got to know me so well that I can read myself in different circumstances and situations and know when I need to shift, when I need to adapt, when I need to change.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Could you share with us a story of an example of someone who saw a real upgrade in that self-awareness?

Greg Harden
Desmond Howard, Heisman trophy winner, MVP of the Super Bowl. Desmond Howard was ready to leave the institution when he pulled me aside and asked if he could have a conversation. I said, “Sure, let’s talk.” He talked about how he was unhappy, how he came in as a running back, and he had been shifted to a wide receiver, and how he wasn’t getting any playing time, and he was frustrated, and he was being recruited hard by other people.

And I looked at him and I suggested that perhaps his press clippings from high school had nothing to do with what he was accomplishing here. I said, “What you need to do is understand that, right now if you leave, who cares?” I said, “If you leave now, you told me you were the guy in high school. Hell, I was the guy in high school.” Pete was the guy in high school.

Pete Mockaitis
I really was, yes.

Greg Harden
So, I said, “Son, you may have to examine what’s working and what’s not working between you and the staff. And what does the staff think about you?” I said, “If you liked, Desmond, I’ll go and chat with the people who are around you and ask them, ‘What’s working for this guy? And what does he need to improve on?'” He said, “Go ahead.”

So, I went and found out that they were totally unimpressed with his commitment to blocking. And back in the day, if you were a wide receiver, and you didn’t block, you weren’t getting on the field. They also thought that his attitude was pretty much, “I and me,” and the team was not the issue, and he believed that this was Desmond Howard University, and then they said, “No, it’s not going to work.”

So, I went back and told him, and he says, “Oh, I didn’t know I was coming across that way.” I said, “Yeah. Well, even though that’s not your intent, that’s been the results. So, let’s come up with a strategy that can change everything.” So, what I suggested to Desmond was that, “First off, you need to decide to be the best athlete on the team, not the best receiver, but the absolute best athlete on the team. You need to push yourself in areas that you hate. If you can give 100% a hundred percent of the time at stuff you don’t even like, what happens when you get to the stuff you love?”

Desmond was not someone who wanted to run. Desmond decided to run 10 to 15 miles extra per week while everyone else was doing something else. When he showed up in August for camp, he was the best-conditioned athlete. He was always in the top three of every event, every activity. He transformed himself. I suggested also that he needed to irritate or perhaps piss off the defensive coordinator. He said, “How do I do that?” I said, “At least once a week, try to knock somebody out and apologize afterwards.”

And I said, “You don’t like blocking? You better love blocking. You don’t like running? You better learn to love running. And convince yourself, con yourself, maneuver yourself into thinking differently and being passionate about everything you do, not just the things you like but the things that are required.”

Pete Mockaitis
Let’s talk about that. Con yourself into loving the things you hate. That sounds powerful, maybe dangerously powerful, but I want to know how I do it.

Greg Harden
Well, you practice, and train, and you rehearse. The keyword is practice, training, and rehearsing. When we talk about getting in shape, people understand practice, train, and rehearse. When we’re talking about mental fitness, the mental gain, you have to teach yourself that you can practice, train, and rehearse to upgrade in ways that you think, in ways that you operate, how you can generate passion.

For example, let’s talk about anxiety. Well, there’s a thin line between anxiety and excitement. Your body reacts pretty much the same. Your heart starts pounding so you’re sweating, and your breathing is impaired, “Am I anxious or am I excited?” So, what we begin to help people understand is that there’s a thin line between those emotions, and you can trigger and turn anxiety into excitement, and fear into passion.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. I like that. Now, I’m curious then, when we do need the turning into, if you’re conning yourself, is it just you’re telling yourself, “I’m excited”? Or, what are the steps or the how-to, the process?

Greg Harden
Well, you begin to start training yourself to notice when fear and self-doubt, when anxiety shows up, and you begin to track it, you begin to understand it as a predictable part of life. So, what we do is, the first thing we do is convince people that fear and self-doubt, that fear and anxiety are predictable, therefore, manageable. It’s part of being human. So, that’s the first order of business is to begin to get you to understand to stop being stunned when you’re anxious, stop being overwhelmed when you’re anxious, “I’m anxious. It makes sense to be anxious.” And, as a matter of fact, fear is predictable as all get out.

Because, think about this, you hear, “Be fearless. There’s nothing to be afraid of.” That’s total nonsense. Some of the greatest moments of my life, some of the greatest moments of your life and most of the people you know, they’re about to crap their pants before it. Am I right or wrong?

Pete Mockaitis
Well, that’s funny. I’m thinking about when I proposed marriage to my bride, I was, like, probably shaking.

Greg Harden
Right. It’s so predictable but we need to learn how to embrace fear, how to embrace anxiety and recognize it and tell it, “Come on in,” and tell it you don’t have time right now but, “Hey, I expected you, I knew you’d be here, but I’ll get back with you later because, right now, I have something to do.” So, fear becomes manageable when we begin to anticipate it as being part of life.

Let’s take it further. So, then if I’m fearless, that means I’m courageous. Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is facing fear. Where encouraged it doesn’t even exist unless we’re facing fear. So, yes, be courageous, face fear, grab it by the throat, laugh at it, anticipate it, and then move on because you’ve done it before. And we love being anxious and excited. Why would you go to an amusement park? No, why would you go to a carnival on the corner that’s been setup overnight and get on any of those rides?

Pete Mockaitis
Sure.

Greg Harden
You’re a brave and courageous person if you get on some of those carni rides, right? But think about this, you go to the big-time amusement park, you get on a ride called The Demon Drop, and you go up 10 stories, and some 19-year-old, smoking a cigarette, puts you in a coffin-like capsule, straps you in, closes the door, pulls a lever, and you plummet nine floors.

And then the hydraulic lift kicks in and it saves you, and of course, your stomach did go into your nasal passages before you got off and you screamed. Then you got off and say, “Let’s do that again.” We love fear. We have to begin to understand that fear is passion. It’s predictable as all get out, and part of life, and part of being human.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. So, we predict it, we welcome it in, and then say, “Well, hey, I’m a little busy right now, so I’m going to have to get back with you later.” That’s all there is to it.

Greg Harden
It’s not all that is to it, but if you train yourself and you repeat it over and over, because what we’re talking about is self-talk, “How do I talk to myself?” We talk to ourselves all the time, sometimes out loud, but that’s not the issue here, right? So, we begin to train ourselves to how we process, how we think about things. We anticipate we’re going to have some anxious moments, and we talk our way through it until we get so confident, it becomes a habit of facing fear, it becomes a habit of anticipating it and dismissing it, and getting back with it and understanding it and talking about it.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, now I’d love to get your take on the opposite end of emotion. So, when we’re fearful, anxious, or really hyped up, what happens when we’re just, “Ugh, waah, tired,” unmotivated, not feeling it? How do we play that game?

Greg Harden
Well, so you’ve heard me say it already, “Train to give 100% a hundred percent of the time.” That’s total insanity. You can’t give 100% a hundred percent of the time. But if it’s my default mode, if it’s what I fall back on, if it’s something that I’m committed to trying, I get to the point where, instead of being, yeah, your worst day can be 30%. Okay, you’re a good guy. You can make it all the way to 50. You’re tired, you’re broke down, you don’t want to do something.

But if your default mode is to give 100% in everything you do, your worst day will be better than the average person’s best day. That’s where we’re going. We’re going to a spot where, “I mean, I don’t feel like doing this,” and you do realize that some of your greatest performances, you were sick as a dog, you were worn out and tired, and you came through because you were relaxed.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay.

Greg Harden
Am I right or wrong?

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I’m actually thinking about, I don’t know, this is just so mundane as oppose to championship athletes, but I’m thinking about some of my greatest performances in, I don’t know, chess or Tetris, which really do push my brain kind of as fast or hard as it can be pushed at times. Yeah, sometimes the tuckered-out times did end up being the best, and I guess that’s the missing element because I was relaxed.

Greg Harden
Isn’t that something? I mean, sometimes you’re so tired, you’re too tired to be anxious. Some of the greatest moments, we’ve seen our heroes and heroines who are just broke down and worn out, “And I was sick and I threw up all this morning, but I’m going to give my best,” and their best ends up being a world record.

So, again, everyone else is trying to manipulate and maneuver you into doing, into buying, into performing. You have to be able to do it yourself. And you need to be able to convince yourself that, “I’m going to just absolutely do my best. I know I’m worn out. I know I’m tired. I know jetlag has set in, but opportunity knocks.”

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And so, when we’re training ourselves to give 100% one hundred percent of the time, what does that training program consist of, just doing it again and again? Or, are there some key steps or conditioning protocols?

Greg Harden
Well, it’s kind of hard to describe it any other way than practicing. Now, this is a story that I think you’ll like. I’ve worked with a lot of megastars and people who are absolutely the best in law, in engineering, in medicine, boom, boom, boom. But I had this young man from the West Coast who was not a fake gangster. He was from a family, there’s a family business, grand daddy, cousins, uncles.

And he somehow, miraculously, turned into this outstanding athlete so he got a scholarship and he came to the university. And they warned me, “You’re going to have to work with this guy.” And I said, “Well, why did you recruit this guy?” They said, “You’ve got to see him play.” “All right.” Well, he was a really good athlete. He wasn’t the greatest in the world but he could perform and he could pull his weight, and he was a problem.

In the first few weeks, he was in my office because of this, and in the next few months, he was in my office because of that. Well, for several years, we worked together, and, lo and behold, for some odd reason, we bonded. For some odd reason, he started changing, “Okay, that’s nice,” and he was not getting in trouble. But, now, he’d come by my office, “G, what you doing?” “Waiting for you. That’s all I’m doing. I’m just sitting around, waiting for you.” And he’s, “Oh, you’re so silly.” We’d get together and we talk and talk.

So, one summer, he shows up at the office, “G, what you doing?” I said, “Well, I’m bored and that’s not good for you.” I said, “Come on, sit down.” I said, “We’ve been working for several years, and you know you’ve changed and I’m so proud of you. I’m so impressed with what you’ve done and how you’ve carried yourself in the last just few months. But we need to find something else to work on.” He said, “What’s that?”

I said, “People think you’re dumb as a box of rocks.” He said, “What?” And I said, “Yeah. And you don’t care, do you?” “Nope.” I said, “But you might be.” He said, “Hey, wait,” and he used some colorful language. I said, “I’m not saying that you are. I’m saying we don’t know.” I said, “Have you ever been a student?” He said, “No.” “But you still have to go to class. This is an institution where you actually have to go to class, you actually have to pass the classes. All you’re doing is trying to be eligible, right?” He said, “Yeah.”

I said, “But what if we had nothing else to work on, and we decided to work on you being a student involved in athletics?” He said, “Meh.” I said, “Here’s the deal. I’m not trying to get you to be a better student. I’m trying to get you to be a better person.” He said, “Go on.” I said, “This is what we’re going to do. We’re going to use academics to make you a better athlete.” He said, “This better be good.”

I said, “I want you to practice, train, and rehearse being a better student. I want you to do your studying. I want you to do your reading. I want you to anticipate that you’re going to have the tests and not wait till the last minute to figure it out. I want you to see if you can prove something to yourself, not to anyone else. This is not about anyone else. I need you to practice, train, and rehearse the mental discipline, the self-motivation, the self-control that it would take to become a student.”

“If you can train yourself to give 100% at academics, something you’re not even invested in, what could you do if you mastered your mind, mastered your own ability to process, to be disciplined, to be focused, to shut out the noise, to stop daydreaming, and to be focused like a laser beam on the task at hand? This is not about academics, son. This is not about athletics. It’s about what kind of man can we create that can take on the world at any level?” He says, “Whoa, you’re crazy.” “Yeah, but we got nothing else to work on.”

So, we worked and worked and talked about it, and, you know, “How are you doing? Are you studying? Are you reading?” boom, boom, boom. So, several months goes by, and I’m not thinking about it that much. At the end of the year, he walks into my office, “G, what you doing?” “Waiting on you.” He said, “Man, you’re not going to believe this. I’m on the dean’s list, fool.”

Pete Mockaitis
There you go.

Greg Harden
And we giggled and laughed and rolled on the floor, and people thought we’d lost our minds. But I’ve got a gangster from the West Coast, thrilled to have mastered his own mind to the point where he became a student involved in athletics. And it’s one of the greatest experiences I’ve ever had in my life.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s awesome, yes. Whew! Now, when you say practice, train, and rehearse, which you’ve said a few times, I’m curious, are there distinctions such that practicing is a different activity than training, is different than rehearsing? And how would you distinguish them?

Greg Harden
They’re all the same. And you know how our mind works. For some person, the word practice, it’s going to trigger. For another person, the word train is going to trigger, and rehearse. You’ve got to see them as a compilation, a formula that all leads to the same destination, and that’s being someone who’s disciplined enough to train their mind to commit to improve and maintain performance over time.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Now, you mentioned, in your book, controllables. What do you mean by those and how do we master them?

Greg Harden
There is an old serenity prayer, “God, guide me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to face the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.” All this is telling us is that there are some things we can control and there are some things we can’t control, and we have to be able to discern what the differences are.

And being able to control myself is the hardest. I can barely control myself, and I’m trying to control my boss? If we’re talking about being awesome at your job, I can’t control my boss’ personality or style. I can’t control their expectations, real or imagined. I can influence all that but what I can control is how I respond, how I react, how I play my role, how I manage what I do, how I tell the boss. I have to be so sophisticated.

When I talk about controlling the controllables, they’re just giving me some more to do. I’m going to go to my boss and I’m going to make it real clear, “We need to prioritize. You just asked me to do six things. Prior to that, you’d asked me to do three. We need to review these six and determine what’s going to be A, what’s going to be B, what’s going to be B2. And I need for you to be clear, boss, what is the priority because I have my idea but I need to get input from you.”

Now, how is that controlling the controllables? That’s all I can do. I have to make sure that I’m not set up to fail. And so, setting myself up not to fail, I’m going to be assertive enough to walk in, and say, “We need to make some decisions. I need your input, boss.” I can’t control the boss but I can control what I’m sharing, what I’m asking, and how I’m going to respond. Controlling the controllables is a critical piece of the puzzle and it’s in terms of staying sane in an insane world.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Thank you. Well, so now I’d love to get your view on we talked about humility, being coachable is huge in terms of a key mindset that unlocks all kinds of good things. Are there any other top mindset shifts you’d highlight for us?

Greg Harden
I would challenge anyone to, I mean, we know some people who are, like, the best friend you could have in life. You’ve had some friends that are some keepers, and maybe only one or two but you have some. But we sometimes notice that even those people who are really great at being a friend to everyone else are horrible at being a friend to themselves.

Your best friend in life should be you. So, introducing to people the whole idea of 4As, for example. The 4As are something that when everyone says every and all, they’re either going to say something profound or completely stupid. All people have 4As. The need for attention, the need for affection, the need for approval, and the need for acceptance. We’re always looking for attention, affection, approval, and acceptance.

I don’t know about you but I’ve made a complete fool of myself trying to get, pick one, and I’ve also risen to the top of my game seeking attention, affection, approval, and acceptance. But where we have to go when we’re training people to be the best version of themselves, at some point I’ve got to put the word self in front of those As.

And the simplest piece is to teach people self-love and self-acceptance. I’m glad that you’re able of loving and caring about everyone else but I need you to consider self-love and self-acceptance. Accepting yourself, flaws and all. Because if you’re good friends, your friends could be flawed, they can mess up, you think, “But you’re my friend. Okay, I forgive you. Let’s go.”

But we’re so hard on ourselves, sir. We are so difficult to please. And when we shift to being a peak performer or a top performer who wants to maintain it over time, I believe an X factor is self-love and self-acceptance. Imagine telling a 320-pound lineman the key assignment is self-love and self-acceptance.

So, one of the things that I would challenge anyone to do is not only give 100% a hundred percent of the time, but love yourself unconditionally, to learn how to do it. And if you can’t do it by yourself, thinking about it, and processing it, practicing, training, and rehearsing, get a consultant or a counsellor. Counsellors or consultants.

When we’re talking about business, I’m telling the CEO who wants to know, “How do you transfer all this to my industry?” I’m going to tell the CEO, “You’ve got to create formulas for people to be able to get the help that they need to transform themselves, to be able to dig deeper and get more out of themselves.”

So, I’m sorry, I get excited.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, no, I love it all. Well, now, Greg, I’d love it if we could zoom all the way inside your brain for specific self-talk approaches that might model this in practice. So, let’s go through a whole loop of, “I don’t feel like doing something. I’m bored. Now, I’m doing a thing and I’m scared, fearful, anxious. And then, oops, I just learned that I screwed it up, and now I’m beating myself up.” What would be the great self-talk arc of moving through these three phases and contrasted with the terrible self-talk arc moving through these three phases?

Greg Harden
Well, let’s think it all the way through, like, “I’m so stupid. I just always…” I have to catch myself, “Well, that was stupid perhaps but it doesn’t mean that I’m stupid.” So, what I ask people to do is to train themselves to not just stop at the first and second thought, but take it to the third, fourth, and fifth thought, “God, I’m so stupid.” “Okay, I’m not stupid. But that was stupid. Beating myself is not working. Oh, okay.”

You’ve got to have in your brain a couple of phrases, “Beating yourself up does not work. It’s ineffective.” So, you’ve heard someone say, “Beating yourself up doesn’t work.” I need you to take it to, “It’s ineffective.” Worrying does not work. It does not change the outcome. Beating myself up doesn’t work. Worrying doesn’t work. I caught myself.

So, what we teach people is to catch themselves when they’re in the middle of beating themselves up. I’ve had people have a notebook where every time they catch themselves in negative self-talk, they jot it down. They even jot down what was happening at the time, what triggered it. And they end up finding out that if they are diligent, they do a lot more often than they thought.

So, the mission is to get people to, ultimately, eliminate but that’s a stretch. We need to reduce how often and how long we beat ourselves up. We’ve got to reduce it and telescope it, and get it down. But we get it down by being critically conscious, mindful, and aware of how often I do it, and I catch myself. So, your brain gets all the way to, when I catch myself, then I beat myself up for catching myself, “Oh, God, I’m doing it again. I’m so stupid.”

And so, we catch ourselves, and then we commit, once again, to retraining the way that we think. The commitment has to be there. People always talk about what they want to do but you’ve got to not just dream big. You’ve got to believe big in order to become big.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, Greg, tell me, anything else you want to make sure to mention before we shift gears and hear about some of your favorite things?

Greg Harden
Become the world’s greatest expert on you. And sometimes you will have to get input from others. You’ve been to some good schools, you’ve done some really good things, and you’re an international player, right? B school, boom, boom, boom. Anyone that’s been near the B school has heard of SWOT analysis – strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats to our organization.

What are the things that are working, not working? What are the opportunities we need to exploit? What are the threats to us becoming world class? I have the audacity to take SWOT analysis and give it to individuals. I’ll ask you to do a SWOT analysis on yourself. And if you don’t like the word weaknesses, let’s say challenges, SCOT analysis.

And so, I’ll have someone do a SWOT analysis on themselves, and then we’ll review it. Some people are really good at identifying strengths and horrible at identifying weaknesses. Some folks, all they can see is weaknesses and are limited at seeing strengths. I will then ask them to get two to three people who they love, who loves them, who they trust, who will not take advantage and abuse any power that you give them, and ask them to do a SWOT analysis.

Then, we’ll have a review of what you’ve written, what several other people who care about you have written, and see if there are some congruencies, if they can see things that you cannot see or have not seen, that’s reinforcing the changes that need to be made. So, critical self-assessment is an artform that people must practice, train, and rehearse, getting better at being able to not really good at criticizing themselves but really doing a self-assessment is what we’re trying to get people to.

And so, I guess I get excited just thinking about, “How do you teach somebody to become the world’s greatest expert and then daring them to pursue self-love and self-acceptance?”

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Beautiful. Thank you. Well, now could you share a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Greg Harden
“No one can make you feel inferior without your permission.” Eleanor Roosevelt.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite study or experiment or bit of research?

Greg Harden
Carol Dweck’s Mindset is filled with research, and she can talk like a human being and not like just a scientist.

Pete Mockaitis
And that sounds like a favorite book. Any other favorite books?

Greg Harden
Viktor Frankl, Man’s Search for Meaning. That was like a bible to me. When I was really young and dumb, I would have a New Testament in one pocket and Viktor Frankl in another pocket, and would walk around talking smack because I’m grounded.

Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite tool, something you use to be awesome at your job?

Greg Harden
Identifying self-defeating attitudes and behaviors.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite thing you share that people quote back to you often that really resonates with them?

Greg Harden
Well, your self-worth and self-esteem must not be based on external forces. How I feel about me should not be based on performance.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Greg Harden
GregHarden.com.

Pete Mockaitis
And do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks looking to be awesome at their jobs?

Greg Harden
Commit without question or pause, to giving everything you’ve got every chance you get. Give it 100% a hundred percent of the time as your default mode. And if that’s your default mode, your worst day will be better than the average person’s best day.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Greg, this has been a treat. Thank you and keep on rocking.

Greg Harden
My man, most enjoyable. Thank you so much for your time.