Shira Gill shares minimalist strategies for reducing both physical and mental clutter.
You’ll Learn
- The hidden costs of clutter
- Why organizing tools won’t help you—and what will
- The easiest way to make your space feel less overwhelming
About Shira
Shira Gill is a world-renowned organizing expert and the bestselling author of three books: Minimalista, Organized Living, and LifeStyled. She’s a sought-after expert for media outlets and has been featured by Good Morning America, The Wall Street Journal, TIME, People, Forbes, goop, Architectural Digest, Oprah Daily, Vogue, and The New York Times. Her popular newsletter The Life Edit inspires readers from all 50 states and 150 countries.
- Book: LifeStyled: Your Guide to a More Organized & Intentional Life
- Book: Minimalista: Your Step-by-Step Guide to a Better Home, Wardrobe, and Life
- Book: Organized Living: Solutions and Inspiration for Your Home [A Home Organization Book]
- Instagram: @shiragill
- Newsletter: “The Life Edit”
- Website: ShiraGill.com
Resources Mentioned
- Book: No New Things: A Radically Simple 30-Day Guide to Saving Money, the Planet, and Your Sanity by Ashlee Piper
- Past episode: 327: Unclog Your Brain through Unfocusing with Dr. Srini Pillay
- Past episode: 782: How to Overcome Distraction through Minimalism with Joshua Becker
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Shira Gill Transcript
Pete Mockaitis
Shira, welcome!
Shira Gill
Thank you. I’m happy to be here.
Pete Mockaitis
Well, I’m excited to hear about your wisdom because, well, I think home organization is generally fun, and when I go to The Container Store, it is genuinely exciting. However, we’re talking about being awesome at your job, so I’d love it if you could make the connection for us here. In the universe of organization and minimalism, how does that have impact on our professional experiences and ability to be awesome?
Shira Gill
So, I use principles of minimalism and my expertise as a pro-organizer to help people gain clarity, clear clutter, and streamline and simplify everything. So, that’s from home and wardrobe to life and business.
And as an entrepreneur myself, I’ve run a business for 15 years. So, I have found how to leverage minimalism in organization to really dial down on what are the things that are most essential and what can I let go of. And it’s the number one tool that I use to work more efficiently and even joyfully.
Pete Mockaitis
Whew. Let’s talk about joy first. How does that increase our joy?
Shira Gill
So, I think we have so much coming at us all the time. Everyone I know is feeling that their lives are overstuffed, over-scheduled, they’re oversaturated. And it’s hard to feel joyful when you feel bombarded by clutter. And that can be digital clutter, physical clutter, mental and emotional clutter. My work helps people deal with every type of clutter. And I think when we feel like we’re drowning, we can’t be the best versions of ourselves.
And so, I think there’s this myth that, in order to feel better, look better, be better, we have to have more, we have to do more. And what I have found in my now 15 years as a professional organizer, a minimalist, as an author who writes about simplicity, is that the converse is actually true, is that the less we own, the more liberated we can feel, the more time and spaciousness we have for the things that matter most, for the things we care about deeply.
And so, most of my work, really, is about helping people cut the clutter and clear the distraction to enable them to do the things they actually care about and enjoy.
Pete Mockaitis
Now, you said minimalism is the number one tool. I think of minimalism as a philosophy or perspective or value, but you’ve used the word tool, which I find intriguing. Can you expand on that?
Shira Gill
Absolutely, yeah. So, for me, minimalism is, I define it as being radically intentional. So, when I say that it’s a tool, it’s like the intentionality tool, right? So, not just with the things you own, but with how you spend your time, your resources, your energy. It’s really a tool to help you clarify what’s important so you can cut the clutter and distraction that stands in the way.
So, I think about everything in my life through this lens of minimalism and intentionality, and it helps streamline and simplify decision-making. It helps me decide where to allocate my resources. It helps me decide which projects I want to dig into and which I want to say no to. So, it’s really, it is a tool that people, I think, don’t realize is at their disposal anytime they want.
Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, could you perhaps tell us a tale of a person who applied this tool and saw some really cool results that showed up in their professional world as well?
Shira Gill
Absolutely. Yeah. So, I had a client, Elizabeth, and she had always wanted to be an executive coach. She wanted to work out of her home. She had three young kids. And her home, in her words, looked like a preschool had exploded. And so, she didn’t have the confidence or the focus or the clarity to get cracking on this business.
And so, what we did together is we said, “What would an executive coach’s workspace look like and feel like? How would you be able to show up, that you can’t show up in the way that you want now?” And so, what we did is we took what was her kind of guest room that had turned into a dumping ground of playthings and toy mats and diapers, and we cleared it all out. We probably donated half of it.
And then we kind of reallocated and relocated things to other parts of her home, like her kids’ room and her playroom. And we set up a really streamlined simple office space for her. So, she had a desk, she had a monitor, she had a speaker and headphones, and the kind of bare bones minimum thing so that she could go on podcasts, she could have client meetings.
And what happened was, as soon as her space changed, her motivation changed and her sense of empowerment to do this job that she had always wanted to do shifted. And so, she started putting herself out there. She started going on podcasts. And it really was about affecting change from the outside in, like she felt completely paralyzed and, like, she couldn’t work. She didn’t have the confidence.
And just by carving out a slice of real estate in her home that felt clutter-free and organized and professional, she was able to leverage that to start her dream business, and she now does that full time from her home.
Pete Mockaitis
Well, I love so much what you said there about change from the outside in. It can happen. And we had Dr. Srini Pillay on the show talk about a term he used, psychological Halloween-ism, in which that can show up with what you wear. You put on a blazer jacket, like, “Ooh, I feel professional.” You put on your dance pants, you’re ready to go out to the club or whatever, and you’re in maybe more of a playful and adventurous kind of a mood. So, that could happen with our dress.
And you’re saying that could happen with our space. And it’s really intriguing, I’d love to dive into some of the distinctions here because if…I’m thinking about exercise equipment. Like, that’s an example of where that tends to often not work. It’s like, “Hey, I bought a treadmill, I bought a weight bench and some adjustable dumbbells, and now, because my space is all set up to exercise, I’m going to be exercising all the time.”
And yet, in practice, often these devices end up holding clothing instead of holding our bodies as we get fitter. Is there a difference or a distinction that we can dig into and unpack? Like, what makes one more effective than the other and why?
Shira Gill
Yeah, it’s super interesting because I have found that if I like my workout wear, I do want to work out more. So, I guess that’s not about buying, like investing in a new gadget or a new trend, right? Like, those efforts typically do seem to fail.
But I have found that if I, instead of wearing like the schlubby pajamas or the loungewear from college, that if I put on like a really sharp workout outfit, like I’ve got my spandex on, I’ve got my like really supportive sneakers, suddenly, I actually feel like being more active. So, that has been effective for me.
I think what is not effective that I see a lot in my work is people trying to become organized by buying organizational gear or gadgets. And you had mentioned The Container Store earlier. I think one of the biggest mistakes I actually see in my work is people saying, “I’m going to go get organized,” and they run out to The Container Store and they buy a million organizing products.
So, they buy, like, bins and baskets and hangers and drawer dividers, and they get home and they wonder why they’re not organized. And the reason is that organization is a skill which is as simple as grouping similar things together and making sure that every category has a home. And so, if we bring more things into our home, now we have more to organize.
And one of the biggest things I see, ironically, is organizing products covered in dust that never got used because they were bought kind of in a vacuum without a purpose. So, what I caution people is to always start by editing and decluttering. There’s a saying in my field, “Organized clutter is still clutter.” So, you don’t want to organize things in your workspace or in your home before you’ve really thoughtfully gone through and decluttered and edited and made careful decisions about, “What are the things I need to do my job effectively? What are the things that are just taking up space or collecting dust?”
And a really concrete example of this is, I used to have a home office, I have two, now, teenage daughters, and they rallied together and wrote me a letter saying, “We would like to each have our own rooms, and we don’t think you need an office anymore.” And so, I really thought about this.
Pete Mockaitis
My kids are young. I’m thinking, “Oh, wow, is this my future?”
Shira Gill
Oh, yeah, it is.
Pete Mockaitis
They will gang up on me and craft correspondence to get their room.
Shira Gill
That’s right. Yes, there will be convincing articles written and cases laid out. So, my kids are very convincing, and they convinced me that if they had their own spaces, they would be more independent, they could have privacy, all of these things, right? And so, what it caused me to do is to look around. I had a proper office. Like, I had a workspace with a desk and a file cabinet and office supplies.
And what I realized, when I decided to take them up on this and give them their own rooms and downsize all of my stuff, so now I work at the dining room table or, you know, a shared workspace elsewhere, is that all that I needed to be able to do my job was a laptop, a microphone, and a notebook.
And so, I ended up selling and downsizing and donating pretty much like 95% of the things that I had in my home office, and now my entire office can fit in a tote bag. And what it did is it actually, ironically, gave me this huge sense of freedom to know I can work anywhere in the world. I can pack up my laptop and I can go work out of a hotel. I can work out of a cafe.
And so, I think when we think about organizing, we think about it wrong. I didn’t need to organize more. I needed to edit and declutter and be really thoughtful about assessing, “What are my tools so that I can do my job?”
Pete Mockaitis
Okay, that’s really interesting.
Shira Gill
Are you looking around your workspace?
Pete Mockaitis
I think that just the timing is hilarious because I just recently had four strong men haul a massive sound-blocking door to outfit a better recording studio space for me to move into, kind of the opposite.
Shira Gill
That’s fair. Maybe you needed that.
Pete Mockaitis
Well, I guess need is so subjective, just like, “The audio quality will be superior and it has benefits,” but I think you’re highlighting, well, it also is, there are other benefits associated with moving in the exact opposite direction. And so, it’s thought-provoking.
Shira Gill
Yeah, I mean, what I find, having been in people’s homes for the past 15 years, is most of us have so many things that we don’t need or use that add zero value to our lives and our careers.
So, like, a prime example is most people that I have met with have an entire collection, like an Office Depot-size collection of things that have kind of been rendered obsolete, like highlighters and Sharpies and Post-its and staplers and binder clips, when most of us are working in this digital world.
And so, I just find it really interesting to question, like, “If I had to go do my job tomorrow, what are the things that I need in front of me to get that job done? And what are the things that, really, are just collecting dust that could better serve, I don’t know, maybe a school or a nonprofit or a theater or a community center who may use those things?” For me, I was, frankly, shocked to learn that I didn’t need 95% of the things that I owned.
Pete Mockaitis
Yeah. Well, so let’s zoom way in on the stapler, because I love office supply stores, too. So, if we use a stapler three times a year, are we better off not having a stapler?
Shira Gill
Yeah, I love that question. It’s very personal for each person, right? So, for me, probably not. I live in a small house, so I should clarify. I live in a house that’s 120 years old. It’s about a thousand square feet. I share it with three other people – my husband, two teenagers, and a dog. And it has almost no storage space. It’s a very charming craftsman bungalow, but it was built in a different time, right?
So, for me, my goal is kind of, like, “How much can I get away with not owning?” I’m really on one end of the spectrum. For someone else, it may seem too inconvenient to borrow a stapler or have to figure out a stapler those three times a year. And if they have plenty of space in their workspace, that stapler is not hurting or harming anyone.
So, one of the questions I always have people ask is, like, “Would you rather have the stuff or the space?” And I think that can be really clarifying. For me, I really value space and spaciousness in my home and in my life.
And so, nine times out of 10, if I’m questioning something, I’ll decide to live without it. And if I need it, I’ll get scrappy and resourceful and borrow it from a neighbor or from my husband’s workplace, something like that. That’s worth it to me.
For someone else, they might value convenience more than they value having a little extra space. So, it is a very customizable framework.
Pete Mockaitis
Okay, yes, the stuff or the space. And it’s interesting, I’d love if you could speak to our human psyches or the research on this. It’s, like, I feel better in a space that is less cluttered. And think that’s, generally, a nearly universal human sentiment.
And, personally, I feel really awesome. I think about speaking. When I am invited to a keynote speech and I am there early in the auditorium and it’s just vast emptiness, there’s like nothing but space – empty stage, empty chairs. And it’s like, “The room is all mine.”
And I don’t know if it’s just the impact of being in a non-cluttered space multiplied by 10. Or, what’s going on here? But since, Shira, you study this stuff and teach it, what is going on here?
And, as we make that choice, “Do I want the stuff or the space?” how do I properly value the benefit of space, even though it’ll vary person by person?
Shira Gill
So, what we know about clutter is that over 80% of people experience stress and anxiety directly linked to physical clutter. So, part of why this is, if we just break it down, is that if you think about being in a cluttered room, every single item in that room is something that our brain has to process.
So, even if we don’t think, “I’m thinking about all these things or these piles,” on a subconscious level, our brain is having to work overtime, processing it as information, right? So, when you walk into that empty room, there’s almost nothing for your brain to process, which means your brain actually gets a break, which feels like relief and ease. And who doesn’t want more of that?
And so, I think what I realized, as a busy working mom, is there’s always stuff coming at me. There’s a long to-do lists, there’s errands, there’s driving carpool, there’s all of the things, all of the input that’s coming at me all the time, and most of which I don’t have control over. But what I do have control over is my physical environment and how I curate it and what I put in it and what I say, “I’m not going to bring this through the front door.”
And what I’ve realized is that the less that I own, the less that I have in front of me, the more relaxed I feel, the more clarity I feel, and the more efficient I can be. And so, I think that’s the thing, is clutter has a big cost, and I’ve seen it in my work, not just this kind of emotional toll of feeling stressed out or overwhelmed, but I’ve seen a huge relationship cost to clutter.
It’s one of the hottest topics in a family of having different clutter thresholds and different ideas of what being organized looks like. It can lead to huge fights and friction between partners, spouses, kids and their parents. And so, by eliminating some of that clutter, you are eliminating this incredible toll and cost that most of us feel every day.
Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And so, then it sounds like, according to this, every bit helps.
Shira Gill
Every bit helps, yeah, absolutely.
Pete Mockaitis
In terms of it might be hard to go from clutter to Marie Kondo-nirvana in a day or even a week or month. But every morsel will be appreciable to our brains.
Shira Gill
Absolutely. And I think I’m clearly on one far end of the spectrum. Like, my children and my husband think I’m crazy, right?
Pete Mockaitis
Well, they got their own room out of it. I mean, I think a lot of parents are like, “Nope, this office is what puts this roof over your head, girl. So, get some bunk beds or figure something out, you know?”
Shira Gill
That’s exactly right. Yes, they should show me a lot of gratitude for that. But I think, like, I can recognize, look, I am a minimalist in a world that values maximalism, in a world that tells you to consume more and buy more and do more. I’m going the opposite route intentionally. But what I’ve seen, working with all of these different types of individuals and families, is that I have yet to meet someone who says, “I have the perfect amount of stuff for me.”
And I think that’s the goal that we want to strive towards, is not “Having the perfect amount for me, Shira,” but having the perfect amount for you in your life circumstance, in your specific career. And so, it’s starting with these questions, like, “What’s being neglected that you care about? What is a new result that you want to create in your life or in your work or business?”
And my favorite is just asking, “What do you want more of on the day-to-day? And what do you want less of?” And I think we don’t slow down enough to really ask ourselves those questions because, frankly, we’re so busy and we’re so oversaturated.
Pete Mockaitis
That’s good. Thank you. I love those questions. Now in your book, Lifestyled, you mentioned three tools. Could we hear about adjusting volume, creating systems, implementing habits, and maybe your top tip, your top do and don’t within each?
Shira Gill
Absolutely, yeah. So, I have these three universal organizing tools, and they came from over a decade of organizing people’s homes. And then in my second book, I actually traveled the world to interview the 25 most organized people I could find. And in interviewing the most organized people in the world, and this is like from Canada to Mexico City, to Paris, to Lisbon, to Stockholm, I found that all of these people were practicing these three universal tools.
And so, here’s what they are. So, number one is adjusting volume. I think this is the most critical tool. And the way I define it is, volume is the quantity or the capacity of something. And so, if you think about, like, a radio dial, like we get to turn it up or turn it down. In most cases, we need to turn down the volume of our lives. We have too much going on. We have too many things to deal with and to go through.
So, an example here would be looking at just like one small thing where you can adjust volume. So, maybe it’s like the subscriptions. Like, I just found out I had been paying for an app for three years that I didn’t even know what this app was. I mean, how embarrassing is that?
And, like, if you add up the amount of money that most of us are paying for, like, memberships or subscriptions or apps, that we don’t even realize we have or we’re certainly not using enough, that’s like a teeny micro example of how you can turn the volume down on something, and you can save money instantly.
I also think about volume in terms of, like, what we’re consuming from social media to the news. Like, how can you streamline your sources and be more intentional about curation? And another example with volume, I could go on and on about volume, so I’ll move on to the second. But it’s thinking about your wardrobe, right? So, there’s a statistic that most of us wear 20% of our wardrobes 80% of the time.
And if I think about it, even as a minimalist, I’m probably reaching for the same, like, five things again and again and again. So, thinking about, “How do I have less but better in my wardrobe?” We all know about, like, Obama and Steve Jobs and these powerful leaders who have, like, one uniform that they wear every day so that they can optimize having more time for other decisions.
So, it’s really just thinking about in all areas of your life, even things like friendship or relationships, how can you turn the volume down so that you’re investing in the things that matter the most that you value?
Okay, so tool two is creating systems. So, I think of a system as an organized framework. It’s like a strategy that solves a problem. So, an example would be my husband went out and he bought a camera. And this camera came with a lot of accoutrements. So, it was like all of these charging cords and batteries and the manual, and he was leaving these things all over our very small home which, of course, drove me crazy.
And what I realized is we brought this new thing into our home, but there’s no system to contain it. And so, I said to my husband, “If I got you, like, a basket or a bin, would you put all of your camera-related things into it so that it’s not all over our house?” He said, “Sure.” And that’s how simple a system can be. So, it’s looking at like, “What’s something that’s not working in my home or my workspace that feels scattered or disorganized? How can I systematize it in the most easy way imaginable?”
And then the final tool is implementing habits. And this one cannot be overlooked. I think, as an organizer, I’m mainly helping people reduce volume and then set up systems and then I leave. But then it’s up to my clients, right, to implement the routines and the practices that ensure that those systems are not rendered useless.
And what I realized in interviewing all of these organizers from all over the world is they all had the same complaint, they said, “Well, I’ll help people get rid of their clutter, and we’ll do these beautiful systems, and we’ll label them, and we’ll set everything up. And then I come back a month later and it is chaos. And, like, what’s not working?”
And so, the lightbulb that I had was you can have the most pristine, perfect system, but if you don’t follow a habit to maintain it, it’s rendered useless. And so, I write about a lot in the book, “How do we make habits easier?” because most of us know what we want to do, but there’s just so much friction in the way. So, it’s like, even for me, like I have a really hard time exercising.
So, I use that very simple hack that most people probably know about, which is the night before, I fill my water bottle, I put it by the front door with my shoes and everything I need, so I wake up and there’s a visual cue, like I’ve already taken care of business. Now I just have to go walk out the front door. So, those are the three tools in a nutshell: adjusting volume, creating systems, and implementing habits.
Pete Mockaitis
Okay. So, that seems sensible. I’m intrigued, with adjusting the volume, most of us need less. What are the indications that we need more or less?
Shira Gill
So, I think that it’s asking yourself, “Do I feel like I have too many options? Do I feel overwhelmed?” Those are very clear cues. I would say the biggest word that I hear on repeat in my work is overwhelm. Almost everybody who works with me starts off by saying, “I just feel overwhelmed.” So, typically, that’s a sign that you have more volume than you can manage.
When we need to turn up the volume, it’s things like, “I feel lonely,” or, “I feel disconnected.” Like, there have been times in my life where I feel like I have more people and things and outings than I can manage.
And there have been other times in my life where I feel lonely or cut off or like, “Gosh, I’m not seeing the people that I love regularly.” Or, maybe I’ve moved to a new city, and I haven’t yet made new friends or connections, then it’s a matter of, “I need to turn the volume up on my effort towards connecting with people, reaching out, inviting people over.”
So, I think that’s a very real thing. Or, like, in your career, do you have more than you can successfully manage? Or, are you in a dry spell, where you feel like, “God, I don’t have as many clients as I want or as many projects as I want. Maybe I need to do more networking or connect with colleagues more”? So, I think those are some easy ways.
It’s like asking yourself those questions, “Do I have more than I can manage?” or, “Am I feeling some sort of a gap in my work or my relationships or even my home?” Sometimes a home, very rarely, but can get too minimal.
Pete Mockaitis
And I’d love to hear, when it comes to implementing the habits for non-cluttering of spaces or life, do you have a top habit or two that is truly transformational? And how do you recommend we get it started up?
Shira Gill
Yeah, so one of the biggest things that I see is paper clutter. And paper clutter is probably the most overwhelming and time-consuming thing to process because you can have like a small pile of papers, but that small pile represents maybe a hundred individual decisions to make. And so, what I find in most people’s homes and workspaces is their paper is strewn about in little micro piles everywhere, right?
So, typically, on the dining room table, on the kitchen counter, maybe in the entry, maybe on your nightstands in your bedroom. So, one of my easiest hacks that you can implement today is you can gather up all of the unprocessed paper piles that are in your environment, wherever they may be, and centralize them into one vessel. And the vessel is simply your action item basket.
So my rule is if anybody needs me to deal with any anything, look at anything, process anything, pay anything, it has to go in my action basket. So, now instead of having papers all over our home, I have one basket. I review it once a week. And so, it doesn’t feel like endless or daunting.
And, in the first place, like when you do this, it might feel like more of a mountain than a molehill. But what I can tell you, from years of feedback, is that just having all of those kind of nagging to do’s and open loops, open tabs in your brain in one place is really relieving for your brain. And then you can think of it as like, “This is one big project instead of a million overwhelming projects.”
Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, that’s an interesting organizational concept, in general, like the consolidation, one thing versus many things. And I’ve just been astounded, even in like a hotel. Like, I’ve got my bathroom stuff in a variety of places. There’s a little moisturizer, there’s a razor, there’s a toothbrush, there’s toothpaste. Okay, so those are kind of like all over, like, the sink area.
And then, when the housekeeper comes and does the tidying up, perhaps they place a washcloth next to the sink, and they place the items on the washcloth. And, somehow, to my eyes and brain and psyche, it’s like, “Ah, that’s much better.”
And nothing substantially has changed at all except, somehow, it seems, I am processing all of these toiletry items as one because they’ve been placed on a washcloth and it blows my mind that it’s like I’ve been tricked. It’s, like, “I fell for that. Like, this is making a huge difference to me.” What’s going on?
Shira Gill
I love it so much. Yeah, it’s the art of containment, right? So, instead of having all these random disparate things, we now have one thing, a pile of toiletries on a towel, contained and organized for your brain. So, it’s, again, like less for your brain to process.
And I think a big organizing hack that all of my colleague love, is just, like, make anything a system by batching it, containing it. Like, we love a tray, we love a basket. Like, it’s so, so simple, but even, like, thinking about for the people who make a smoothie every morning.
If you have a smoothie station that’s all corralled in a neat little pile on a tray, on your kitchen counter, suddenly, it feels organized and soothing to the brain, instead of having all of these different random things all over your kitchen.
And, I mean, I think, you’ve mentioned the hotel a couple of times, and I have to say people are always saying to me, like, “God, I just want my space to feel like how I feel at a hotel.” And I think the thing is, when we go to a hotel, there’s everything we need, but nothing more. They’ve cleared away all the excess.
And I think what people forget is that we have the ability to do that for ourselves in our own homes to clear away the excess, and to think about, you know, like my example in the home office, “What do I really need to do my job effectively? And what’s just collecting dust and creating mental clutter for me?”
Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, now let’s hear about a favorite quote, something you find inspiring.
Shira Gill
Joshua Becker, who is a fellow minimalist and life simplifier, says, “The first step in crafting the life you want is to get rid of everything you don’t.”
Pete Mockaitis
So good, yes, Joshua was on the show.
Shira Gill
Oh, love that.
Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite book?
Shira Gill
Okay, so my new favorite book is called No New Things, not surprisingly. So, this is written by a colleague of mine, Ashlee Piper. She doesn’t think of herself as a minimalist, but she is a sustainability expert. And she has a 30-day “No New Things” challenge, where you just start thinking about, “What are the things that I want to bring into my life?” And she offers a bevy of tools to radically shift your relationship with consumption.
Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And a favorite habit?
Shira Gill
Oh, mine is really simple. It’s just a five-minute tidy before bed. I think setting yourself up for success in the morning should not be underestimated. So, for me, that’s, like, the quickest tidy with my family, wiping down the surfaces, making sure the dishes are done. If I have time, even laying out my outfit for the next day. It’s kind of like a gift to my future self.
Pete Mockaitis
And is there a Shira-original sound bite that really resonates with folks?
Shira Gill
I mean, I always say “Owning less is easier than organizing more.” And I think it’s, really, it’s a simple way of saying, like, “If you have less to organize, you can spend less time organizing.” It’s just kind of simple math.
Pete Mockaitis
Yeah. And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?
Shira Gill
So, you can check out my website, which is just my name, ShiraGill.com. I have a free newsletter called “The Life Edit” on Substack. And you can find my three books anywhere books are sold, so Minimalista, Organized Living, and my new book is called Lifestyled.
Pete Mockaitis
All right. And do you have a final challenge or call to action for someone looking to be awesome at their job?
Shira Gill
Swap something you want to do less of with something you want to do more of. A simple example is most people tell me they want to spend less time scrolling social media and more time reading and absorbing new information that feels good. So, thinking about something you want to do less of and swapping it with something you want to do more of.
Pete Mockaitis
All right. Shira, thank you.
Shira Gill
Thank you so much for having me.