KF #38. Optimizes Work Processes Archives - Page 7 of 12 - How to be Awesome at Your Job

Pete Mockaitis
Joseph, thanks so much for joining us here on the How to be Awesome at Your Job podcast.

Joseph Reagle
Thank you. I’m happy to be here.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I’m excited to dig into your stuff. And I’d love to start with you sharing a little bit of how you came to adapt a practice of Japanese techniques of T-shirt folding. What’s the scoop here?

Joseph Reagle
I came by it by way of YouTube. I’m a bit of a sponge. I watch a lot of YouTube channels, I read a lot of blogs and whatnot. And I saw that there’s this particular technique for folding T-shirts, and I can’t say it verbally. If your listeners want to check it out, you can Google Japanese T-shirt. It’s very nice. You just kind of pinch two parts of the shirt, and you do a little flick of the wrist, and then, bam, it’s folded.

And it’s a trivial sort of thing. It doesn’t really save me much time, but I think the thing I enjoy about it is I don’t really enjoy folding laundry. And so, this gives me a little practice, a little technique that I can improve upon, that I can hone as I’m folding my laundry, so that gives me something to do.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, that is nice and it sort of makes you feel like there’s some craftmanship involved. And I believe this Japanese T-shirt folding practice is different than what Marie Kondo is advocating as I looked at your reference videos. Is that fair to say?

Joseph Reagle
It is. She also has some great ideas. I don’t know if she calls it vertical folding. But, basically, if you have a lot of T-shirts, or maybe we use this with the hand towels in our kitchen. Instead of piling all the hand towels on top of one another, you arrange them side by side so you can see your whole gamut of things that you want to select from. And that’s a very handy tip as well, and we use that in our kitchen.

Pete Mockaitis
And I like, in particular, the ability to not have to make one hand into a levitating shelf to take the things that are up above it in the other hand to grab the thing that is now on the new top. And then things get a little bit disjointed along the way. So, I’m right with you. Well, it’s funny, we’re already talking about it. You’ve got a book, it’s called Hacking Life and I’m quite intrigued by your premises and your discoveries. So, maybe you can start us off by sharing what was one of the most striking and surprising discoveries you made when putting this together?

Joseph Reagle
Well, in the book, I’m looking at lifehackers and all the domains of life that they apply this hacking ethos to. So, it includes things like motivation, time management, productivity, health, material possessions. And when I got to relationships, I was looking at various types of people who use various tips and tricks for seduction, pickup artistry, for managing their marriage, the negotiation part of a relationship, as well as people just going online like OkCupid and trying to figure out how to get themselves to be able to be matched with people that they might like.

And there was a Wired article about this one hacker who hacked OkCupid and he created fake profiles, and he downloaded a bunch of information, and he kind of figured out the sort of women that he would be attracted to, and the sort of questions that they were interested in. And he ended up calling it a success, and he published a self-help book about how to hack OkCupid. And he went on 88 dates.

And when I talk about that with students, they’re like, “That doesn’t sound very successful,” but I teach in Communication Studies, and most of my students are women, and when they hack dating, they also add a filtration mechanism, interestingly enough, so they don’t have to go out with bozos and boneheads.

And then I came across someone else, another engineer who went on 150 dates in four months. And he spoke about—it was so tempting in this age, when we have all this technology and choice available to us, to try one more date, to get one more datapoint to figure out like who that perfect person would be. And that’s been leading me into some of the downsides, I think, in approaching life this way.

I’m very hackery myself. I think we can learn a lot. There’s a lot of handy tips and tricks, and they can even help us craft some meaning for our lives. But there are some excesses.

Pete Mockaitis
Intriguing. However, I want to talk about some of your hackeriness, if that’s a word, as well as some of the pros and cons. But maybe just to make sure, from a language standpoint, we’re on the same page, what makes a lifehack a lifehack per se?

Joseph Reagle
Well, the term “hack” goes back, surprisingly, far amount of time. It emerged at MIT at their Tech Model Railroad Club. So, that was a very geeky    early electronics club at MIT in the late 1950s, and hacker culture emerged out of that. And they started accumulating a fair amount of jargon back then, and they put out a dictionary in 1959, and they said a hacker is the person who avoids the standard solution.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay.

Joseph Reagle
More recently, the founder of LifeHacker.com, Gina Trapani, she wrote that as a computer engineer-type of person, she thinks about reprogramming the tasks of her life how she would a program. And her goal is to optimize them to make them a little faster and a little more efficient. So, the idea of lifehacking spans the mundane and include things like tying your shoelaces or folding your shirt, but it goes up to what I call meaning hacking, trying to find contentment in a life of uncertainty and loss. But all of these entail an appreciation of systems and employment of systems, maybe trying to figure out how to exploit those systems, to bend the rules so that you can be a little more efficient.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, I mean, that sounds great to me. What are some of the downsides you’re unearthing here?

Joseph Reagle
Well, what I wanted to do in this book is not pillorize lifehacking. And people do sometimes, particularly cultural critics and academics. You know, they hold their nose when it comes to self-help, and I think lifehacking is a part of self-help. And there’s plenty of shade that people can throw at lifehacking as well.

But I didn’t want to do that because, as I just said, I’m geeky myself. But what I wanted to do was then draw some distinctions. So, let’s not throw lifehacking out altogether. Let’s figure out, are there ethical lifehacks and less ethical lifehacks? Are there different types of hacking? And I call them nominal and optimal hacking.

And I think, in this case, optimal hacking certainly has some excesses entailed. So, you might optimize a wrong thing. So, the example that I spoke of, of that hacker who went on 150 dates, I think he was optimizing for the wrong thing. He got fixated on the dates rather than the starting of a relationship. And when you approach life as a system that can be optimized, you do have the tendency to sometimes fall into this trap of what I call naïve optimization.

Pete Mockaitis
These are great distinctions I’m wrapping my brain around here. So, I got optimal hacking, where we’re seeking to optimize something. In that one case, he was optimizing such that he could get a bunch of dates. And what’s nominal hacking?

Joseph Reagle
Nominal hacking is an engineering term, and I could’ve used the word normal, but I didn’t for various reasons, because that’s loaded as well. But it’s the idea that you’re good enough. So, for example, I spoke to lots of folks in the quantified self-movement and lifehackers who might want to lose a little bit of weight, or who have migraines. And so, they’re not trying to like boost their brains like some lifehackers and biohackers take nootropics that supposedly make them smarter. That’s how Tim Ferriss actually got his start, selling a nootropic online.

They’re just trying to get back to a good enough sort of state. And I can appreciate that certainly because if people take some risks there, they’re doing it for a particular reason. But when people get too far down the line of optimizing, sometimes they’re putting themselves at risk for a very marginal gain. So, for example, one of the people I speak of is Seth Roberts, and he was very big in the Quantified Self movement when that started. And the Quantified Self movement is just like the number measurement fixated wing of lifehackers.

And he came up with, well, he discovered for himself that eating half a stick of butter everyday made him a little bit faster.

Pete Mockaitis
Faster, running? Thinking?

Joseph Reagle
Thinking. And so, he had a little program on his computer, and it would give him little math puzzles, and he would respond to them as quickly as he could, and he would chart and measure his response times and accuracy, and he would track that over the days so he could see when he was a little bit faster, or when he was a little bit slower.

And he, originally, had started eating a large amount of pig fat everyday to help with his sleep because he discovered that helped him by way of accident. But then eating pig fat everyday was difficult because you can’t really carry it around with you. But he discovered if you ate half a stick of butter, you can get butter even when you’re out at a restaurant. That helped with his sleep.

Pete Mockaitis
Butter, please.

Joseph Reagle
Yes, and it improved his mathematical abilities. And when he would give talks about this, he was like, “This is really great. This really works for me. I prefer to manage my own health in this way.” He didn’t really trust the medical establishment. And he wasn’t a kook. He was a professor of psychology. He worked on rat psychology, but he was very much into his own quantification and experimentation. And a cardiologist, in one of his talks, suggest that he might give himself a heart attack.

And the big irony here was that he started a column at The New York Observer, where he would write about his lifehacking and experiments on a monthly basis, maybe it was weekly. And his first column was his last column. It was entitled “Butter Makes Me Smarter.” And a couple of days before, he had had a heart attack.

So, I can’t say that eating half a stick of butter gave him a heart attack. He’s just a single person. But I think it speaks to some of the risks. Like, why eat half a stick of butter so that you’re a couple milliseconds faster on this trivial arbitrary sort of little quiz you setup for yourself?

Pete Mockaitis
Right. Yes, so that’s very clear, optimizing for the wrong thing. So, you’re a little quicker but your health is suffering, and so that’s not a great trade certainly. So, given that, how has your thinking evolved in terms of establishing whether a particular practice seems like a good idea or a bad idea?

Joseph Reagle
I don’t know if I can say beforehand something is great or something is really a bad idea, but I have some heuristics. And so, again, if you’re to push yourself to that leading edge, I think you need to ask yourself, “Am I focusing on one thing beyond all others?”

So, there’s a fellow by the name of Nick Winter, and he wrote this really nice little self-published book that you can buy on Amazon called Motivation Hacker. And he read all the popular literature, the pop science literature on motivation, on habit formation, on curing procrastination. And he thought, “Well, what happens if I could amplify all this to be absurdly productive?” And he used all these psychological techniques, and apps and hacks that were available to him, and he was savvy about it.

He did end up working 120-hour work weeks as for fun almost, but he also had to create goals for himself, like to go on so many dates with his then girlfriend, now wife, go out to be social with his friends like 10 times a week, make sure he was still doing his pushups and pullups and health regime. So, that works for him. And you can go to a webpage, he dynamically, in live time, has a webpage where he charts his productivity and the hours he has spent coding. And he plots it against his running average over days, and months, and weeks. But at least he was cognizant of the fact that he had other things that he needed to keep his eye on, and he didn’t just focus on and fixate on productivity.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, you know, what’s interesting is, as you talk about that life and that quantification and striving to sort of beat it and have it at the top, I mean, it’s interesting because I love spreadsheets for all sorts of things. And I have quantified a number of things in my day that most people don’t bother or would find excessive or over the top.

But, as I think about and imagine that scenario, it seems to me a real risk would be just a sense that your, I don’t know, meaning, or your value, or your purpose, or all that matters is that which is you are quantifying, charting, publishing, which can kind of suck you into some, I think maybe really, depressing places. Is that kind of what some patterns that you’re seeing in your research here?

Joseph Reagle
Oh, definitely. So, I have the chapters on hacking time, hacking motivation, material possessions, and you can almost see a progression of people looking for contentment. So, people think, “If I can be super-efficient, then I will be happy. I will be content.” And it turns out that’s not necessarily the case for a lot of people. They realize, “I still am not happy. I climbed to the top of my hierarchy at my work, I make a lot of money, and I bought a house. Now, I have all this stuff, and that’s making me anxious.”

So, then, you can look at the digital minimalist, another wing of lifehacking, and they decided, “Well, why don’t I do another experiment? Why don’t I get rid of everything except a hundred things?” So, there is the hundred things challenge, and some people did 99 things, and some people did 50 things. And that worked for some people for a time, and some people still lived that very minimalist life. But one of the people I spoke to, it’s a pseudonym, but I had been following her, and she, again, had had a breakdown, had a good job but very stressful, ended up on the floor in a pool of tears, that’s how she spoke about it. And quit the job, sold everything except what she could fit in a backpack and traveled the world writing about digital minimalism.

And, after a year or so, she quit it all. And I found that out because I was checking some of my sources for the book, and all her webpages were gone, and her e-book was gone, and her Twitter account was gone. But, fortunately, I still had contact information, and I said, “Now, what happened? Where did it all go?” And she said, “Well, everyone was doing the same thing, all shouting about how happy and content they were, and how awesome this was, but it just started to ring hollow,” and she got out of it.

And so, that’s the chapter on material possessions. And then there is a chapter on health and relationships, then ultimately meaning. Like, when you realize that none of those things will necessarily guarantee you happiness and contentment, when you realize that life, even perfectly optimized, is still likely to throw you some disappointments and loss. What do you do? And that’s the next to the last chapter when people start pulling from stoicism and mindfulness and Zen Buddhism in particular among lifehackers.

Pete Mockaitis
Fascinating. So, yeah, I can see how that really makes sense in that, just like, “Okay, if I could just do a little more, a little more, a little more of efficiency, or productivity, or production of stuff, then I’ll arrive.” And it’s like, “Oh, wait a second. It can’t get any more optimal than this and you’re still not doing it.”

Joseph Reagle
So what do you do then?

Pete Mockaitis
Bummer! A realization. And so, well, I mean, that’s a big question. Now, what do you do?

Joseph Reagle
Well, one of the parallels I draw, I found this really interesting in the meaning hacking chapter, was that people do, are very fond of the Zen minimalist sort of aesthetic, and mindfulness is really big in Silicon Valley. There’s a conference every year called Wisdom 2.0 where they bring in Google and a bunch of tech companies and all the mindfulness gurus.

And people pick and choose in various aspects of religions, and it tends to be very individualistic, and we’ll hear people talking about how like Tim Ferriss will talk about mindfulness as an efficient operating system for the brain. There’s a fellow who started at Google, he wrote a book and he has a non-profit called Search Inside Yourself because he started at Google, so he’s playing on this search thing. And he wrote about how EQ is great for your engineers’ and your techies’ and your employees’ emotional intelligence.

And the employees know the more EQ they have, the more money they’ll make, and so they’ll be happier at the companies. And that just seems very crass. And so, people get frustrated with that. And, again, the ironic parallel is Siddhartha, the original Buddha, started out living a life of extreme luxury. His father was the king, his mother the queen, he was provided with everything a young man could be provided with: money, exotic foods, courtesans.

And he woke up one morning and he just said, “I am not happy. I am not content.” He became a minimalist. He went out, traveled around, taught and learned from a lot of yogis. He became very extreme. He tried to optimize his asceticism, nearly starved himself to death, passed out, was revived by a young girl who fed him some rice milk, and realized, “Huh, maybe what I need to do is pursue the middle way, the middle path, the path of moderation.”

And so, wow, that’s the insight. Maybe being super extreme about optimizing everything is not the solution. Maybe moderation is good in all things. And that’s the neat thing about lifehacking as a type of self-help. A lot of the genuine bits of wisdom and insight that people do come to have been around for centuries, if not millennia. But what self-help does is it wraps up those bits of wisdom, those bits of insight, into a vocabulary that people in a current moment, in a current culture can understand.

So, what lifehacking really is it’s a type of self-help, for what’s been called, you know, the geek class, the engineers, the techies, the creative class, the people who aren’t on someone else’s clock but they still have a lot to do. And they have to figure out, “Well, how in this world of increased demands and expectations on your intention, but also increased distractions, how can you possibly focus?”

And so, lifehacking, as a type of self-help, says, “Here are some lessons that have been around for a while, like the middle path, the middle way, making sure you connect with your family and friends, and you don’t forget about it, making sure that when you schedule your day, you give yourself time to do meaningful long-term stuff, that you give yourself time to maybe be spiritual, or spend time with your friends and relations, and it couches it in contemporary terms.”

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah. Well, I appreciate, Joseph, you’ve also given me a prescription for a bestseller, just to go ahead and find some ancient wisdom and package it in modern terms, and that seems to be a winning formula.

Joseph Reagle
That’s what self-help is. It’s always being done actually.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, all right. Well, that gets me all the more motivated to finish off Plutarch’s Lives and any other books that are on my shelf that I haven’t built in meaningful time to tackle just yet. Well, that’s really cool. So, getting acquainted then, or having covered these kinds of cautionary bits, and getting a broader perspective on what we’re really going for, I do want to touch base on a little bit of tactical stuff. What have you discovered have been, for many practitioners, some pretty excellent habits, or approaches, or hacks when it comes to time?

Joseph Reagle
One of the insights I came to in doing this work, and again this has been around for a while. There is a theorist, a Nobel Prize-winning economist, Schelling, who came up with this idea of Egonomics. And decades ago, he said that there’s a lot of things that we would like to do, but that we don’t do. And the Greeks even spoke of this as “akrasia.” We do things that we shouldn’t do, and we don’t do the things we should do.

So, one of the things that I take advantage of is called the Pomodoro technique. And “pomodoro” is the Italian word for tomato, and the guy who came up with it just happened to have a kitchen timer in the shape of a tomato.

And the idea is that when you have a long-term task that you want to do or go on, like I want to write a chapter for a book, getting started writing a chapter of a book is daunting. It’s very hard to motivate yourself. So, what you can do is you can say, “I’m just going to set this timer for 40 minutes, and I’m going to sit down, and I’m just going to look at that page in front of me, I’m not going to allow myself to get distracted. But after the 40 minutes, I can take a short break.”

And that allows you to get over that hump of, “Oh, my gosh, I could never start this big project that I’ve been worrying about and thinking about.” And so, that’s one of the techniques I love. On the cover of my book, under the title, there is a little Pomodoro tomato timer. I don’t know how many people will get that, but that’s what it is. And I also glitched it up a little bit to show there might be a dark side or some excesses.

Pete Mockaitis
So, the Pomodoro, you are a fan there. And so that is, I believe, 25 minutes is the time there.

Joseph Reagle
I think that’s how it was started. I tend to do 45 to 50 minutes for writing.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Very good. And so, that you found to be good and workable and helpful in your world.

Joseph Reagle
I do. And, again, the interesting thing is it’s not so much a time management. It’s really a self-management tool. Because time really is what time is. You can’t do a lot with it. The real challenge is motivating ourselves. An economist from a couple of decades ago, who won a Nobel Prize, actually called this Egonomics. He proposed a new field of study for ways that we might understand the economics of our own self-regulation, the sort of economy of our desires and wants.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, that is fascinating. Can you share perhaps an insight or takeaway or two from that study?

Joseph Reagle
Well, he didn’t do a study. He wrote an essay where he was proposing this sort of study. And some of the examples he used back then was, he says, “Well, people do things to keep themselves from smoking cigarettes, or biting their nails.” Like, people would paint some disgusting nail polish on their nails so they would taste it. Or, if you have poison ivy, you put gloves on your fingers. And so, he said, “Just as a real economics, you see these exchanges and tensions, we grapple with these within ourselves.”

And, interestingly, if we go back even further, the Greeks spoke about this. They had a term for it called akrasia. And that was that frustration related to doing things that you shouldn’t do, and not doing things that you should do. And the classic example for that is Ulysses. He wanted to hear the sirens when he and his sailors were sailing by, but he knew that if everyone heard the sirens, they would be pulled to their death on the rocks. So, what did he do? He had himself tied to the mast, and could listen to the sirens, had the men put wax in all their ears so they couldn’t hear the sirens, and he could enjoy it but he knew he wouldn’t go crazy.

And, in economics, they call those Ulysses pacts, or—Ulysses is another name for Odysseus. And what you do is you commit yourself to something that it’s not easy to back away from. So, earlier I mentioned Nick Winter and his book, The Motivation Hacker, and he’s really fond of this app called Beeminder. Now, this would never work for me, but the app, what it does is it asks you to commit a certain amount of money to a task. And if you don’t do that task you forfeit the money.

So, you might say, “I want to work for 50 minutes to get started on my chapter today,” you set your Pomodoro timer. But what’s going to keep you from getting distracted? Well, there are some tools like Freedom that can keep you from going to Facebook, or Twitter, or Instagram. But you could also set a little goal on Beeminder that says you’re going to lose $10 if you fail to satisfy your Ulysses pact, your commitment.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah. And so, I guess then you just have to be honest.

Joseph Reagle
You do.

Pete Mockaitis
You could go back in there and say I did or did not do that thing.

Joseph Reagle
That’s the question. Like, “Well, why would anyone not just lie and not lose the money?” But the thing that I encountered when I spoke to users of this application is that, one, they have this app very much integrated into their lives and their quantifications, so they really want good, accurate data for like how many words they wrote in a day, or how many Pomodoros they did, or whatever it is that they’re trying to do. And they don’t like to have their data distorted, and that’s helping them manage their data.

And then, two, they really appreciate the service. And so, they’re happy. Like, if you have a habit you really want to create, spending 10, and then if you fail, 20, it doubles. Spending that amount of money is worth it to you. And they very cleverly designed the app such that you end up paying the least money that’s still worth what that task is worth to you.

Pete Mockaitis
Wow. How do you arrive at such a figure?

Joseph Reagle
They’ve done some research. The company is a joint effort of two folks, Bethany Soule, who has a graduate degree in Computer Science, and Danny Reeves who has a PhD in Economics and Incentive Systems. And they have applied that economic quantified approach to the whole of their lives. I talk about their marriage in the chapter on hacking relationships.

And they bid for things in their relationship, like who’s going to take out the trash tonight. The one person might say, “Well, I would give you $2,” and the other person will say, “Well, I’d give you $3.” And so, the person might, “Okay, I’ll take the $3.” And for them, from an economic point of view, it’s very efficient because the person who least wanted to do it didn’t have to do it, and the person who got the most value of it did it. So they have a very unusual but interesting approach to life.

Pete Mockaitis
Right. And I guess, again, you need to be honest, like, “Oh, boy, I’d give you $500.” It’s like getting you trump, trump, trump, trumping them each time with a huge sum. But I guess that’s part of the marriage game is being honest and forthright and not trying to game the system there.

Joseph Reagle
Yeah, and they do exchange the money, they do have a hack on top of that, so they don’t exchange every single interaction they have. They only record and exchange money every 10 of these interactions, but then they multiply that interaction by 10. So, if it was $3 to take out the trash, it’d be worth $30. And it’s very unusual and they received some criticisms out there on the web.

But unlike some of the other excesses and unsavory hacking, at least they’re trying to be fair, at least it’s very explicit. They call it, you know, they are respecting one another’s utility curves. They’re not being exploitative. And I think you can find that in some other instances of lifehacking.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, respecting each other’s utility curves sure sounds romantic.

Joseph Reagle
Yes, that’s what some of the folks said, like, “This doesn’t sound like a real relationship.” And it’s definitely unusual, but it works for them. And when I tried to apply those distinctions of this, if it’s ethical or not, it seems above board.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, certainly. And I’m sort of being a little cheeky with the actual words that phonetically you don’t sound romantic, but the concept, I think, really is in terms of being thoughtful about each other’s needs, and also somehow balancing your own stuff. And it reminds me back in the day when I had three roommates, and then we had four rooms in the apartment that were all a little bit different in terms of their pros and cons, with their space, and they have their own bathroom, etc. And it’s like, “Well, okay, how are we going to divide up this rent?”

And that was the game we played. It’s like, “Okay, you’d like the big room. Gotcha. And just how much would you be willing to pay in rent for that big room?” And so, by iteratively going through this, it worked out just right. It turns out I was a bit more frugal and I had the small room with a small rent, and the lawyer and the doctor, you know, they were living larger, and it was good and fine that way.

Joseph Reagle
Yes, it can be efficient. Of course, there are some downsides and they’ve had to think about that in the context of their relationship. So, she’s the only one that could actually be pregnant and have the kids. So, what is the value? Let’s say, for example, one of them was in school while the other person was working. And so, they had to figure out, like, “What is the value of these things?“

Their first daughter’s name was Fair, and they actually bid between themselves when they name the kid, and Fair won. And it went for a couple of thousand dollars between them. And, again, it’s very unusual, but at least, for them, those things weren’t taken for granted. I think that’s preferable to a relationship where you just assume, “Oh, you’re going to get pregnant and you’re going to stay home with the kids, and I’ll be earning the money and have plenty of spending money.”

Pete Mockaitis
Well said. Well said. Well, tell me, any final thoughts about lifehacking, great practices, how professionals might use some of this wisdom to accelerate their own ends?

Joseph Reagle
I would recommend people experiment with various things, but they need to ask themselves two questions, well, more than two questions, but let’s focus with two questions. When you go out and you buy a bit of self-help, whether about it’s productivity or minimizing and getting around the clutter, you’ll have to think about, “Well, compared to what? Is this technique going to be cost effective? Is it likely to be efficacious? And are there any side effects or harms?”

And I think if you’re attracted to something, and you can ask yourself those questions, and all that seems to bear out, I think it’s worthwhile trying while you’re also keeping yourself in check with respect to some of the excesses that fall from optimization.

Pete Mockaitis
Well-summarized. Thank you. Well, now, could you share with us a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Joseph Reagle
Sure. So, one of my favorite books on time management, and again that’s a bit of a misnomer because it’s really about managing ourselves, was Stephen Covey’s 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. And that was real popular back in the ‘80s, and even the ‘90s, but now other books like Ferriss’ 4-Hour Workweek, I think more people are probably familiar with. But he had this great quote, “The key is not to prioritize what’s on your schedule, but to schedule your priorities.”

And that’s because, I think, someone was telling me like Elon Musk has a calendar where he schedules every five minutes of his day, and I think that would drive most people nuts. That would not be effective for most people. And what Covey is suggesting instead is if you do want to prioritize having time to think about the long term, the things that are of high value to you, things in your personal life that you want to make sure that there’s room for, schedule your priorities.

Pete Mockaitis
Well said.

Joseph Reagle
Don’t fixate on your calendar and making sure that every five-minute chunk of your calendar is full.

Pete Mockaitis
Thank you. And how about a favorite study or a bit of research?

Joseph Reagle
This might not be appropriate because I know you’re looking for probably a study that tells you how to be more effective. But there’s a study I really like in terms of critical thinking, and it’s a follow-up to the marshmallow study. Pete, have you ever heard of the marshmallow study?

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, right, Walter Mischel. It’s a fave. Did he do this one or was someone else building off that work?

Joseph Reagle
The follow-up was in 2012.

Pete Mockaitis
Let’s hear it.

Joseph Reagle
So, the original one has been made use of a lot by people who were into like grit, and motivation, and sticking to it. And this study from decades ago was done by placing a marshmallow in front of a child, and they’d say to the kid, “You could have this marshmallow now or, if you wait, and I go look for more marshmallows and I come back in 10 minutes and you haven’t eaten the marshmallow, you can have two marshmallows.”

And so, in the study, they looked at the kids who ate the marshmallows immediately, and they looked at the kids who could persevere and hold off and be patient and wait for that second marshmallow. And then the interesting things is they tracked some of the indicators of those peoples’ lives as they move through their lives. And so, how did they do in school? Like, what was their SAT scores? Did they get a good job? Did they end up buying a house? You know, all those sort of things. Did they end up in a good relationship? And they found a very strong correlation between the people who were able to persevere and be patient, and those outcomes from later on in life, the good outcomes.
And for many decades, people then thought, “Well, if you want to raise kids, or if you want to do well in your life, you really need to learn how to persevere.” And the slight downside was that sometimes it led to the implication that if you ended up in life in a place where you didn’t really want to be, or if people fared poorly in life, it was their own fault because they didn’t have enough grit, and we just need to teach kids to have more grit.

Well, the study from 2012 added a step before the marshmallow. And the proctors of the study would do something with crayons. Before the marshmallow step, they’d bring out some dumpy crayons, half-used crayons, not a lot of shades of color, and they tell the kids, “Here are some crayons if you’d like to color in this book here. But I have a better brand-new set of crayons available if you’re willing to wait.” And they did the same thing. They said, “Would you be willing to wait and I’ll bring you back a nicer set of crayons?”

They went off and then the proctors came back and did one of two things. They said, “Oh, I forgot the really nice crayons. I’m so sorry,” or they gave them the good crayons. And so, the proctors were unreliable or reliable. Then they did the marshmallow study. And it turns out that when the kids had been exposed to an unreliable proctor, they did not get the nice new crayons, they ate that marshmallow right away.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, and that liar is not going to come back with two marshmallows.

Joseph Reagle
Yes, exactly right. And so, this is really nice evidence that it wasn’t necessarily the kids’ grit and perseverance, maybe these kids had a lot of siblings. And if you have a lot of brothers and sisters, you know you can’t leave that marshmallow sitting there. Or maybe they grew up in an impoverished family. And maybe those with the things that correlated with later-in-life outcomes, rather than in any essentialist kind of notion of grit and internal stick-it-to-it-ness.

Pete Mockaitis
That is clever.

Joseph Reagle
Yeah, so I really like that study because I think, again, it’s great for critical thinking. I use it with my students a lot. And it also is a bit of a caution with respect to some of the self-help advice we get, which is very individualistic, pull yourself up by your boot straps kind of stuff.

Pete Mockaitis
And how about a favorite book?

Joseph Reagle
I should’ve mentioned this earlier but there’s a great book on stoicism when you’re asking about that by William Irvine, called A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy. And it really is, as you suggested, an up-to-date version of the ancient stoic philosophy. And so, he talks about how it emerged, and some of the differences between the Greek and the Roman. But the important thing is he says this is practical philosophy which isn’t taught in universities anymore. Now, it’s very formal, kind of a lot of history and theory.

But philosophy was supposed to be practical. It was supposed to give you some suggestions to provide guidance on how to live a good life. And I find Irvine’s book “A Guide to the Good Life” is full of really wonderful insights that are very applicable to the current day, to our immediate lives.

Pete Mockaitis
Thank you. And how about a favorite tool, something that helps you be awesome at your job?

Joseph Reagle
Well, one of the things that’s just built into my personality, though I think it can also be developed, is I document everything. I’ve been blogging forever, microblogging forever. I have a mind map called Freeplane that I really like to use, so all my reading that’s going to Freeplane. I’m really fond of this application called Zim Wiki. It’s a personal Wiki, so you can just easily create pages, and tasks, and to dates. Maybe if people are familiar with Evernote, it’s kind of like that, but I like Zim Wiki a lot more.

So, I don’t have a very good memory, so whenever I need to remind myself or something or think about. Last time, I had to submit my expenses because we use this awful software in my work. Well, with the steps that I went through to make it work, and I have it all documented there, so I really love those sort of tools.

Pete Mockaitis
Cool. And a favorite habit?

Joseph Reagle
A favorite habit? I ask myself, “Would I be happier person in the future if I did the thing that I’m waffling about doing?” So, maybe it’s brushing my teeth, or going to meditation, or whatever it might be, I try to think about my future self and whether he would be content and proud of the present self.

Pete Mockaitis
That is excellent. Thank you. And is there a particular nugget you share that really seems to connect and resonate with readers or listeners?

Joseph Reagle
This idea that self-optimizing can be suboptimal. I wrote a piece for The Guardian. That number, like a colleague just emailed me earlier today, saying, oh, she really loved that piece, and she wants to use it in her course.

Pete Mockaitis
Lovely. And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Joseph Reagle
You can go to my website reagale.org, and I’m also jmreagale on Twitter.

Pete Mockaitis
And do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks seeking to be awesome at their jobs?

Joseph Reagle
That’s a little bit difficult because then I would be setting myself up as a sort of self-help guru, which I’m being a little bit critical of. But I think people should be mindful of not only what they’re doing but why they’re doing it.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, Joseph, thank you so much. This has been a whole lot of fun. I wish you all the best with your lifehacking and optimally optimizing and falling into suboptimality. It’s been a lot of fun.

Joseph Reagle
Thank you, Pete.

Pete Mockaitis
Tonya, thanks so much for joining us here on the How to be Awesome at Your Job podcast.

Tonya Dalton
Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Pete Mockaitis
I’m excited to dig into this good stuff. I understand you have a fondness for building things yourself. What’s the backstory here?

Tonya Dalton
I do. It’s one of those things where I love power tools. It’s something that not many people necessarily know about me because it’s not something I talk about a lot professionally, but for me there’s something about building something with your hands.

And I find that when I’m at my most stressed, if I have a lot of things going on at work, it helps me to really tackle a big project. I might gut a bathroom. I might tear apart a deck and rebuild it. It’s just something that I really enjoy because I like working with my hands, I like the creative aspect of it. But there’s a lot of that analytical, that logical part to it with the measuring and everything else.

Every year for my birthday, one of the things that I gift for myself is I make a trip to the hardware store, I buy hardware and I build a different piece of furniture every year for my birthday.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s cool. That’s excellent.

Tonya Dalton
I know, it’s such a random thing, right?

Pete Mockaitis
I wish, I wish I were that good at things. I’m getting better. This has been my year of being a homeowner and landlord in our little three-flat here.

Tonya Dalton
That definitely changes that, those things.

Pete Mockaitis
It does.

Tonya Dalton
That’s when you really become better at power tools, when you have to.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, it’s so funny just because I guess – sometimes it has the opposite effect on me because it’s like I have a very clear picture of what I want done and why is it not already done.

Tonya Dalton
You’re like, “We’ll just order this online.”

Pete Mockaitis
Then the instructions, it’s sort of like, “Well, that doesn’t make any sense.” Then four steps later like, “Oh, I see why I should have done that thing now. Oops, let’s backtrack.”

Tonya Dalton
See, I think for me, I really like how I can customize a piece so it fits exactly where I want it to fit. So if I have a little alcove and I want to put a desk in there, I want to make it exactly the right size that I want it. I want to configure it so it fits what I want, which kind of fits into how I talk about productivity. It’s really about customizing.

That’s what I love about building things yourself is that ,I’ll sit down with a piece of paper and I’ll sketch it out and then I’ll kind of dream. It’s kind of like setting a goal. I’ll set a dream for myself of what I want to build and then I get started with the logistics of how I’m going to build it, what I need to cut, how many pieces of wood do I need and all of that.

I think it kind of fits into what I do professionally, but it’s a really creative outlet for me. I just love looking at something and saying, “You know what? I built that.”

Pete Mockaitis
Yes, yes that is satisfying. I only have a few things that I can point to, but it does feel good. I even feel proud of – I have a treadmill desk quote/unquote, which is really just-

Tonya Dalton
Oh yeah.

Pete Mockaitis
A piece of plywood that has been sawed just perfectly for the dimensions, but it makes the difference. I can now do some things while walking on the treadmill.

Tonya Dalton
You know what? It works. It doesn’t have to be beautiful. It just has to work.

Pete Mockaitis
I made that in the sense that I told the guy at Home Depot how many inches it should be and then he did it. It works great.

Tonya Dalton
… using the guy cutting the wood at Home Depot to take care of that for you. That’s called delegating, right?

Pete Mockaitis
Totally. Right.

Tonya Dalton
It’s outsourcing and that’s a good thing.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I could have purchased a fancy thing on Amazon for five times the price, so I did feel sort of clever. Anyway, that’s building things. Let’s talk about the company you built and what you do. inkWELL Press, where’s the name come from and what is it all about?

Tonya Dalton
Well, it’s a good question because I’ll be honest, when we were sitting down and thinking about starting inkWELL Press, I think it was like a 20-page document of names. We’re just brainstorming and thinking through names.

The whole process really of starting the business was very, very intentional. I had had a previous business and I made the decision to close that first business that I grew. I started that first business starting with $50 and I grew it to the point where my husband could come work with me.

I found that even though I loved the life that I had – it had allowed. It had allowed us to work together. It allowed us to move where we wanted to move, which is Ashville, North Carolina. I didn’t really love what I was putting out into the world. I didn’t love the impact that I was making.

I made this decision to close that business even though that was our sole income for our family. It paid our mortgage and paid for things like building furniture and fed my kids. But I wasn’t passionate about it. I made the decision that I was going to close that business.

When I decided I wanted to open up inkWELL Press, it was a really, really intentional process. It was me sitting down, really thinking about what I’m most passionate about and creating a business around my true purpose. Through that process I began to uncover what I really wanted to do.

I wanted the name to really fit with what I was doing. The name inkWELL Press has ink is in lower case and then WELL is in all caps, because it’s really about having a life that’s well lived. It’s really about living well. All of our products have that well aspect to it. Our planners are called the liveWELL planners. Our meal planner is the eatWELL planner.

To me, it’s really about at the heart of what I talk about to people and what I produce and offer to people, it really is about living their best life. I wanted the name to reflect that.

Pete Mockaitis
Intriguing. I would love to dig into this. You have a lot of perspective when it comes to living well, particularly in the realm of productivity. You’ve got the podcast, The Productivity Paradox, and a course and more. So I would just love to dig all around this area and maybe we can start with when folks are feeling overwhelmed, there’s too much, they’re panicked, it’s just – it’s overwhelming. It’s overwhelming.

Tonya Dalton
It’s overwhelming. It’s so true.

Pete Mockaitis
What do you do with that?

Tonya Dalton
Well, what’s funny is that I talk to a lot of people in all different walks of life, people who work for corporations, people who are entrepreneurs, people who are students, women, men, all kinds of people of all different ages. I’ll say to them when I meet them, “How do you feel about work? How do you feel about your business? How do you feel about your tasks at home?”

The word I hear again and again is overwhelmed. They’re overwhelmed by the amount of things that they have to do.

I have this belief that – I believe that far too many people feel overwhelmed by everything they have to do each day, so they push aside their goals and their dreams because of that overwhelm. I really think that the purpose behind what I talk about and what I create is to help alleviate that overwhelm.

I often tell people that overwhelm isn’t having too much to do; it’s not knowing where to start. That’s what I like to talk to people about. Where do you start? How do you prioritize? How do you figure out what it is you want to do first? What do you want to do next? Then really creating a life that’s around that because at its heart, productivity is not about getting things done. It’s about doing what is most important. That is really what helps us feel really satisfied and really happy with our days.

You know, too often, I feel like people run around busy all day long. When they slip into bed at night and their head hits the pillow, they feel really unsatisfied. They feel unsuccessful. “I should have done more. Why didn’t I get more done?” even though they were busy all day long. That’s because they’re living in this state of overwhelm. Instead of really working on the tasks that will move them forward towards the life they want, towards their goals, they’re putting out all these fires.

That’s really what I like to talk to people about is getting over that feeling of overwhelm, cutting through the noise and the clutter and getting to what is most important to you. That’s really the heart of it too is that ‘to you’ part. It has to be customized to you.

Too often these productivity systems that people teach and talk about, they’re designed so that the productivity system is in the center and you’re supposed to work your life around it. I teach the opposite. I believe your life and your priorities are at the center and then we create a system together to work around that. That way your priorities are always front and center in your life. That’s what helps alleviate a lot of that overwhelm is really knowing where you want to focus.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s really astute and intriguing as I’m pondering this. I think there are times in which we feel overwhelmed sort of temporarily in terms of oh, this month. It’s almost sort of like maybe too many commitments have appeared at the same time.

Tonya Dalton
They do tend to align like that, don’t they? Like the planets all align and everything is coming at the same time.

Pete Mockaitis
I guess that’s my experience of overwhelm most often is I don’t feel overwhelmed for like a whole year, but I feel overwhelmed oh this month and that month and maybe that month, so maybe a quarter of the year I’m overwhelmed, which is a quarter of the year too much for me.

Tonya Dalton
Right. Agreed.

Pete Mockaitis
How do you think about some of those dimensions in terms of it’s just a confluence of stuff like, “Well, here we are with family and work and all the other-“

Tonya Dalton
And volunteering.

Pete Mockaitis
Yes. All at once.

Tonya Dalton
And projects and we have people pulling on us. A lot of times that convergence of everything hitting at the same time, sometimes that is out of your control, but a lot of times, it really is in your control. It comes down to the choices you’re making. Productivity at its heart is about making a series of choices every day of what you’re going to focus on, what you’re going to work on.

Often I tell people that, if you’re finding that you’re in this state where you feel like everything is aligning at the same time and your weeks are so jammed packed you feel like you can barely breathe, it’s because you’re saying yes too much. I think we feel obligated oftentimes to say yes. It feels good in the moment and then five seconds later you think, “Why did I do that?” Or we feel guilty, like we’re supposed to say yes.

But I like to remind people that every time you say yes, you’re saying no to something else. We don’t realize that we’re saying no every single time we’re saying yes. Oftentimes the things that we are saying no to are the things that are our priorities—our family, our passion projects, our goals, time for ourselves, those things that are really important to us. We’ll push those aside and say no to them in order to say yes to somebody else’s passion project or whatever it is.

Often I like people to really look at what are these opportunities that are showing up for you and do you have to say yes to every single one of them? We have this belief that opportunity only knocks once. Sometimes that’s true, but just because it knocks once, doesn’t mean you have to open the door every single time.

We really need to filter and figure out what is it that you want to say yes to. What are your yes’s because oftentimes when we’re saying yes to everything, we’re really at our heart saying no to the things that are going to make us happy in the long run.

Pete Mockaitis
Tell us when it comes to establishing these matters that are deeply important and worth saying yes to, how do you think through those to identify that really well and clearly?

Tonya Dalton
People get caught up in this idea that everything should be treated equally. They want to treat all tasks as equal, when really we need to stop and prioritize. We think that by doing all the things, we’re really moving forward, but when we try to do everything, we end up doing nothing. We’re kind of spinning in circles. We’re not really moving forward in that direction we want to go.

I really think it’s important for you to stop and prioritize. Really what I tell people is use your North Star as your filter. When I talk about your North Star, it’s really your mission statement, so not just what you do, but why you do it. That’s your mission statement. Using your mission statement, using your vision statement. Where are you dreaming that you want to go? Then your core values, which is what’s defining your actions.

Your mission statement, your vision statement, and your core values work together to create what I call your North Star. That’s what helps guide you.

When opportunities show up to us, what we should do is we should ask ourselves, “Does this fulfill what it is I want to do? Does this fulfill my mission or does it fulfill my vision, where I want to go? Does it fulfill one of my core values, something that is truly important to me that I want to define my life?”

When we use that as our filter, that really can help us understand what we want to say yes to and what we want to say no to. A lot of people get confused when we’re talking about tasks and they feel like well, tasks that are important and tasks that are urgent are basically the same. They think that urgent and important are two of the exact same things. They’re really not.

Important tasks are tasks that drive you forward. They move you towards that North Star of where it is you want to go, while urgent tasks are simply tied to time. They are not necessarily important. They’re just a fire that feels like it needs to be put out. It’s the pings on your phone and the phone calls and all those different things.

They feel important because they’re so urgent. But many times we take care of those urgent items before we take care of what’s really important even if those urgent items aren’t really important to us. I think that really helps us to prioritize if we filter and we figure out what it is we really want to do using that North Star and then asking ourselves, “Is this truly important to me? Is this going to move me towards the life I really want?”

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And working with your clients, I’d love it if you could share some examples of mission statements, visions and operating values. What is the articulation sound like in words?

Tonya Dalton
Yeah. One of the things that I feel people get caught up in with mission statements and vision statements and core values is it feels so heavy. It seems like this really big thing. I think for a lot of people, that’s a big road block. That becomes something that feels so heavy and important, that they just think, “I can’t even deal with it.” It feels too big.

I like to remind people that just like you grow and evolve, your mission and your vision statement and your core values, they grow and evolve with you. The person you are today is not the same person you were five years ago or ten years ago or twenty years ago or beyond. You have changed and so has your North Star.

One of the things I find that most people get really caught up in, especially when we’re talking about mission statements, is they think about all the different things they do. They want a mission statement that ties in all the different tasks: work, and home, and volunteer stuff, and maybe homeschooling their kids, and maybe what they’re doing for their promotion. It becomes this big mishmash, this really long mission statement.

What I really try to get people to do is to list those items, list those things that they really do enjoy and what they do and then I ask them to figure out why is it you do that. The why is really the heart of your mission statement. Your mission statement doesn’t have to say exactly what it is you do, but it speaks to why you choose to do it.

“I do this because it helps others to live a better life.” “I do this because this fulfills my need to educate other people.” “I do this because I love helping the elderly.” I do what I do. That’s really what we want to do is we want to distill it down to what do these tasks that you really enjoy doing, what do they have in common? What is the common why that you experience there? That is the heart of your mission statement.

So I usually tell people that your mission statement starts with ‘to,’ because it tells you what you do. Then it’s really short, to the point. It’s easy to remember. It’s easy to talk to and it’s easy to use as your filter. You don’t want to make it so complicated and so convoluted that it’s muddling everything up. It’s supposed to help clarify.

Then when we think about the vision statement, that at its heart is not about goal setting. It’s really about dreaming big. It’s about dreaming about where you want to go.

For me, I want to be the global solution to help women uncover their priorities all while keeping my own in focus. You can see it’s big. I’m saying global there, but I also say it in a way that makes it sound like it’s absolute. It’s absolutely going to happen. I don’t say, “Well I’d like to-,” or “Boy, it would be nice to-“ You say it as an absolute.

Where is it I really want to go if I can dream as big as possible? That’s the beauty of vision statements is it really allows you to stretch yourself.

Then the core values, which is the other part of that North Star, those are the things that define your actions. What are the things that really define what’s important to you on this path towards that vision, that connects you from your mission to your vision? Really, it’s taking those together and then using that as your filter.

Pete Mockaitis
Then the vision then – you say that’s not like ten life goals, but it’s rather sort of a big unifying dream.

Tonya Dalton
Yeah, it’s a bold statement. It’s a bold statement about where it is you are going to go.

Pete Mockaitis
It sounds like the vision you provided is in a professional sense, but you also included sort of your own thing in there as a—

Tonya Dalton
Yeah, because it’s important to me that I don’t just talk about productivity, I don’t just talk about living an intentional life, it’s really important to me that I live that life. If I’m going to talk to people about being intentional, being mindful, I really need to make sure that I’m doing that for myself at the same time, so keeping my own priorities really in focus all along.

Pete Mockaitis
When it comes to the values, can we hear some example articulations of those?

Tonya Dalton
Yeah. For me, intentionality is really important, adventure, learning, all of those things tie in to what it is I want to do. Learning fits into that because I love learning. I love reading about studies.

I love learning and figuring out how your brain works so that when I am talking to people on the podcast or on episodes of Tonya TV or wherever, I’m able to really give them evidence, like, “This is how our brain works, so-“ It helps people understand like, “Oh, I’m not alone in this. This is normal,” or, “This is okay.”

For me, that core value of learning is really important because that’s part of not just what makes me happy as an individual, as a person, it also really helps me professionally.

One of my other core values is adventure. So I’m an entrepreneur. You can’t be an entrepreneur without loving some adventure because there is no stability in entrepreneurship.

That really ties in there as well, really pushing the boundaries of what I know and allowing me to stretch beyond my comfort zone, which is another thing that I talk a lot about, really getting out of where we feel most comfortable, like those comfortable sweatpants that we wear, and stretching ourselves to try new things.

I started a podcast almost 100 episodes ago, which seems crazy, but that was an opportunity for me for adventure, of stretching myself and tying in that core value of learning because I didn’t know anything about podcasting before I got started.

Having these core values allows you to really look and say, “What is it I want to do? What actions do I want to do to move me towards that vision?”

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, really cool. I know a lot of folks when they’re thinking about productivity or balance and stuff, this work/life balance or work/life integration concept is tricky and fraught with guilt. They feel like we’re letting down family or letting down colleagues. How do you think about this?

Tonya Dalton
Well, I’m a big believer that balance is bogus, that there is no balance. I think balance is what I like to call a rainbow problem. It sounds really good, but it doesn’t really exist. You can’t really get there because if we’re balanced, it means that all the areas of our life are equal. By definition, if all areas are equal, we’re not really leaning into one area or the other, we’re standing still. We’re really stagnant. What we really need is harmony.

By that I mean we need to lean into the different areas of our lives. I talk about these three areas of our life of work, personal, and home. When you really want to move forward in one of those areas, let’s say you really want to work towards a work goal, you have to lean into that area. You have to spend a little more time, a little more energy, a little more attention at work. And so we can’t spend as much time maybe on our home goals or our personal goals.

The trick here though is this, we can’t learn into work and stay leaned over. It’s kind of like riding a bike. If you want to ride a bike, you can go straight all day long and stay perfectly balanced, but if you want to go in any direction, like you want to turn right, you have to shift your balance over. We can’t stay leaned over so far; we have to eventually shift back up so we’re upright, otherwise we’d fall down. It’s the same way in life.

We can lean into these areas, let’s say we’re leaning into work because we’re working on getting a promotion. After a quarter, then we need to shift back and maybe then we need to lean a little bit more into our personal life or lean more into our home life and figure out what those goals are. That way we’re not staying too shifted in one area, but we’re continually moving that balance back and forth. I think counterbalance is so important.

I often talk to people about balance doesn’t really exist because we don’t want all things to be even. We really want to look at the harmony of the whole. Looking at the harmony of a year or looking at the harmony of a week.

Balance seems to fit in this tight constraint of 24 hours and we think, “Gosh, I have to get all of my priorities taken care of in this 24-hour period.” Well, if you look a little bit wider and you zoom out, and you look at the 168 hours we have in a week, it’s much easier to see where you’re leaning in and counterbalancing and then leaning into a different area and counterbalancing.

Yeah, maybe you didn’t make it home for dinner on Monday night, but you made it home for dinner four nights that week. If we just look at the balance of the 24, we get to Monday evening and we feel like we failed. “Gosh, you know what, I never make it home. I never spend time with the family. I’m so busy working. I’m so disappointed in myself.” Right? This is the talk that we have with ourselves.

But if you really zoom back and you look at the harmony of the 168 and you see, “Okay, I didn’t make it home on Monday, but I made it home on Tuesday. I made it home on Thursday. I made it home on Friday. I did pretty good. I made it home the majority of the days.” That’s really where our happiness lies. It’s okay that we’re not taking care of all of our priorities every single day as long as they’re getting taken care of, overall.

Pete Mockaitis
Very good. Thank you. I also want to get your take on when it comes to sort of the key habits, practices, routines that sort of make all the difference for keeping things flowing and operating well week after week.

Tonya Dalton
Yeah, well, I love habits because I think sometimes people think about habits and they think about biting your nails or smoking. Habits can sometimes have this bad connotation, but habits are really an amazing thing. There was actually a Duke University study that showed that about 40 to 45% of our daily actions are actually habits.

We’re already using habits to a degree. I mean, think about it. When we get dressed in the morning, we don’t have to think about each and every step of putting on our pants or brushing our teeth, we do these things, without thinking about it. They become habits.

I love taking habits and really making them intentional, really making them so that they push us towards spending time on our priorities, that they push us towards that life that we really want to live, and they take a lot of that thinking out of it.

Some of the habits that I really like: I get up in the morning. I have a morning routine, which is essentially just a series of habits that go one after the other. Each one triggering and acting as a springboard for the next. I like to get up early in the morning before everybody else in the house is up because I find that that’s a great time to get my work done and really focus.

And so I get up in the morning and I start with a little bit of meditation, a little bit of prayer. Then I go and I get a glass of water. This was a habit that I actively worked to cultivate because First of all, I’m not a morning person. I tell people I get up early and they’re like, “Well, you must be a morning person, so it’s easy.” I’m not a morning person at all.

So I discovered that one of the things that you can do to really help yourself in the morning is to have a glass of water because your body is dehydrated after not having any water all evening long while you were sleeping and that really gives you a boost. So that’s one of the first things I do. I have a glass of water. Then I brush my teeth. Then I go out into the living room. I do some stretches and I start working.

Then I go through the routine of waking up my kids when it’s time to do that. Making lunches, that whole fun routine.

But then one of the things that I really think has made the biggest difference, which is part of that morning routine or this morning habit is when I get to my office space, I start with ten minutes of focused planning. That  for me is the habit that has really changed the way I feel about my day. It really gives me this ownership over my time.

So I sit down before I’ve checked email. At this point, I have not checked in with email. I’ve not let anybody else’s fires become my fires. I sit down and I plan out what I want to accomplish for the day. I sit down. I don’t make a to-do list because I do not believe in to-do lists. I make a priority list. I create a priority list. I start at the top and I work my way down for the whole day.

Then after my ten minutes of planning, then I worry about checking in with email and then they can come in and they fit into my day wherever they fit because at that point I’ve put in my important tasks into my day. I really feel like that’s one of the best habits that I’ve created for myself is this ten minutes of planning.

And then at the end of my workday, I do this habit I call it the five minute to peak productivity, where I spend a minute writing down my wins for the day. I write down for one minute how I felt about my day, what was my stress like, did I put too much on my plate? Then I spend a minute writing down the things I’m grateful for, for that day.

Then I write down for the next minute, minute four, I write down how have I worked towards a goal, because I believe you should work towards at least one goal every single day. And then the last minute, I write down what are the things I would like to focus on for tomorrow? That allows me to get those items out of my head and onto the paper, so that when I go home I’m not thinking about work anymore.

And what I do with that sheet of paper, that five minutes to peak productivity, I leave it on my desk so that way when I come in the next day for my ten minutes of planning, I have a little springboard right there ready, to help me with my ten minutes of planning. I look through, I can see my wins from the day before. I see what I said the day before that I wanted to focus on, and I use that to build my momentum.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s excellent. I liked the way you said it the ten minutes of planning creates the ownership in terms of “All right, this is the game plan,” and then you’ve done it prior to email. I’ve been getting more into that myself in terms of that making all the difference there. It’s sort of – oh, go ahead.

Tonya Dalton
I was going to say email can be such a rabbit hole. We get in it and we’re digging through and it never seems like we’re at the bottom of it. And it generally is filled with a lot of things that other people need from us. I think it’s so important to have that ownership over our time and to feel like we are choosing how we spend our time.

Pete Mockaitis
Absolutely. I’m curious to know, with that ten minutes sort of you’re referencing your yesterday thoughts that you wrote down in one of those five minutes, are there any other kind of key, sources that you’re looking to during this ten minute window. Is it your calendar? Is it your vision? What are some of the – does it come right out of your head or are you kind of referencing back some documented pieces in generating the plan of the day?

Tonya Dalton
Yeah, I love that question because we don’t want things floating around in our head because then they’re just taking up room. It takes up space and it takes up a lot of the calories that our brain is burning. We want to get them out of there.

What I do is I do a brain dump. I call it a purge. I do a brain dump on Sunday, I do it for my family. On Monday morning I do it for work. I very intentionally keep those separated. I don’t want to think about work necessarily until Monday morning so that my Sunday is really focused on family.

What I do during that time is I write out what are the things I want to accomplish this week. I pull things from my calendar. I’m writing down and just getting the things out of my head so that when I’m sitting down for that ten minutes of focused planning each day, I take that weekly kick start, that’s what I call it, I take that weekly kick start and I’m pulling from that in order to put in what I want to accomplish.

The nice thing about that purge, that brain dump is that that’s allowing me to do that zooming out that we talked about, looking at my week as a whole, getting a bird’s eye view of where I am and where I want to go for that week. And so from that, I’m pulling each day. I’m not just pulling it out of thin air or having to do a lot of thinking. It’s really automatic and on autopilot because most of my ideas and thoughts, I’ve already gotten down onto paper.

Pete Mockaitis
Excellent. Well, tell me, anything else you want to make sure to mention before we shift gears and talk about some of your favorite things?

Tonya Dalton
Well, let’s see. There’s so many things. I love talking about productivity. I think the thing is that I think people get caught up in when we’re talking about, how we want to run our day and how we want to live our lives is we get caught up in this idea of doing so much and feeling good about checking a lot of items off our list.

And I just want to remind people that life is about quality rather than quantity. It’s not about checking a lot of items off our list. It really is creating that life we really love and that life that we want. When we really intentionally build these habits into our day so that what is important to us sits front and center, that really allows us to feel so much more successful at the end of the day.

Pete Mockaitis
Lovely. Now could you share with us a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Tonya Dalton
Yeah, my favorite quote is from Oprah. She says, “Do not think you can be brave with your life and your work and never disappoint anyone. It doesn’t work that way.”

Pete Mockaitis
Lovely.

Tonya Dalton
I think that’s really important, especially when you are trying to take ownership and focus on living life with your priorities. There might be some people who are disappointed that you’re not going to say yes to everything they ask you to do, but it doesn’t work that way. Oprah’s pretty smart.

Pete Mockaitis
You mentioned you liked learning the studies, is there a favorite study or experiment or bit of research that really resonates with you?

Tonya Dalton
Yeah, well, I mentioned that Duke University study, which is one of my favorites. But I have another study from the University of London that I really love. It was on multitasking. What I love about it is so many people are so proud of how they multitask. They think that multitasking is really helping them be more productive.

What this study found is that, when you multitask, not only does it really take you longer to do the work, but the quality of your work suffers significantly. As a matter of fact, when people multitask, they do the same work that’s equivalent to someone who has missed an entire night of sleep or someone who has smoked marijuana.

People are usually surprised by that because they think that they’re being so productive, but really, when we’re trying to multitask and do too much, our work really suffers. But the most, astounding thing I think from that study was this, they found that the better someone believed they were at multitasking, the worse they were.

Pete Mockaitis
Intriguing.

Tonya Dalton
I think that’s fascinating because we think that we’re really good at it, but we’re really not so good.

Pete Mockaitis
How about a favorite book?

Tonya Dalton
My favorite book of all time is Jane Eyre because I just love classic novels. It’s just a genre that I love. That is my favorite fiction book that I go back and read every year or so.

Pete Mockaitis
How about a favorite tool?

Tonya Dalton
Well, my inkWELL Press products of course. For that routine that I was telling you about, I have a notepad that helps you with your brain dump. Then I sit down with my daily planner and that has a priority list built into it, so you can really just plug in your items and categorize them by priority. I think that really helps.

Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite habit?

Tonya Dalton
My favorite habit is probably my ten minutes of focused planning that I do every day. I really feel like that sets me in the right path for every single day. And I think one of the mistakes a lot of people make is they try to plan out their whole week let’s say on Sunday, but then it’s really easy to get behind and feel like you’re under water the whole rest of the week, so, really taking that ten minutes to plan that day and to make the plans for that day achievable makes a world of difference.

Pete Mockaitis
And is there a particular nugget that you share that really seems to connect and resonate and then people quote it back to you?

Tonya Dalton
The one that resonates with a lot of people I think is that overwhelm isn’t having too much to do; it’s not knowing where to start. I think that resonates because once we figure out together where it is you want to start and what you want to do next, that feeling of overwhelm really does go away. And it really feels a lot better to be more in charge of your day.

Pete Mockaitis
If folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them to?

Tonya Dalton
I would probably send them to my website, InkwellPress.com because I have links to my podcast there. I have links to my courses, my episodes of Tonya TV are there and of course my products are there as well.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks seeking to be awesome at their jobs?

Tonya Dalton
Yeah, well this is what I would say is a lot of times we hear advice or we hear tips and thoughts and ideas and we get excited about it and we want to try to implement everything all at once. What I would say is, start small.

Take one piece of advice, maybe something that I talked about today, maybe it’s taking and doing the ten minutes of focused planning and focus on just doing that one thing for the next month. Build that in as a habit and then use that as a springboard to start building in other habits that really help you live intentionally. Starting small and feeling some success and getting some wins under your belt really can go far in helping us not feel that overwhelm.

Pete Mockaitis
Well Tonya, thanks so much for taking this time. It’s been a whole lot of fun. I wish you tons of luck with the podcast, Productivity Paradox, and the company, inkWELL Press, and all that you’re up to.

Tonya Dalton
Well, thank you so much. This was great being on here. I really enjoyed being on your show.

Pete Mockaitis
Hal, thanks so much for joining us here on the How to be Awesome at Your Job podcast.

Hal Elrod
Pete, I’m feeling awesome at my job of being a podcast guest right now, so ….

Pete Mockaitis
Cool, well you’re off to a great start with the enthusiasm.

Hal Elrod
You got it.

Pete Mockaitis
I also hear that you’re enthusiastic about UFC. What’s the story here?

Hal Elrod
Yeah, it’s kind of funny because I’m the most non-violent UFC fan I think that there is. For those that don’t know, UFC is Ultimate Fighting Championship. If I would have ever turned on the TV and saw two guys fighting, I don’t think I ever would have gotten pulled in.

In 2004 I think it was, I just turned on the TV on Spike TV and the reality show The Ultimate Fighter, which for those of you who don’t know, this is actually how the UFC turned – they were a failing company and they turned themselves around by putting fighters in a reality show.

It was like the Real World meets UFC fighting, where fighters lived in a house together for six weeks and they competed in a tournament, where they’re fighting each other and they’re sharing rooms with each other. I got really connected to the storyline of the fighters. Then I actually cared about what they were going to do. Then fast forward, I’ve been a fan now for gosh, 13 years or so.

Now it’s just two people that are – the people that compete in the UFC, they have to master seven or eight different fighting disciplines. There’s no other sport – in basketball, you just master basketball. In UFC, it’s you’ve got to be proficient, not proficient, you’ve got to be excellent in wrestling, and excellent in jiu-jitsu, and excellent at karate, and excellent at boxing, and excellent at all these different styles.

Pete Mockaitis
I don’t think I’ve ever actually watched a full hour of UFC programming before. I’m impressed by what these athletes do. They are fit – in great shape. I just hurt watching it, so I think I turn away. It’s like, “Ow,” then I find something else.

These athletes – you literally at the top level, in the UFC essentially, you’ve got to be as good as Michael Jordan at basketball and while you’re as good as Jordan at basketball, you have to as good as Tiger Woods at golf and – these guys train, they’ll train – they’re basically train 12 hours a day, 6 to 12 hours a day. They’re training – Monday they do wrestling for 3 hours, then they do boxing for 3 hours. Then Tuesday – it’s just crazy to have to train not just one sport, but 7 or 8.

Pete Mockaitis
That is why their physiques are striking. It’s like that person is among the fittest that I’ve beheld.

Hal Elrod
And their cardio, to compete at that level and do that.

Yeah, the funny part is I’m non-violent. A lot of times in a match it will get too violent for me. I love the sport. I love the storyline. I appreciate the athletes, but yeah, when it gets bloody and stuff, which it does sometimes, I’m like, “Ah, ….” It’s funny, I’m a huge fan, but I don’t like when they hurt each other.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, that’s good. It’s funny, that’s sort of like – that’s kind of one of your things is you are such a positive guy and talking about sort of potential and possibility and how to unlock that largely in terms of getting the momentum going through morning routines. I’d love it if you could give us maybe the short version of your incredible story about how you got into morning routines to become such a believer. What happened in your life that sparked this?

Hal Elrod
Yeah, I usually frame the story by saying I’ve had a few rock bottoms in my life. Those kind of, each one was the catalyst for a different component of my life’s work today.

Let me start by just saying to define a rock bottom, it’s something that we’ve all had. In fact many of them will have more of them. I define a rock bottom as simply a moment in time, moment in your life, a moment in adversity that is beyond what you’ve experienced before.

I don’t compare one person’s rock bottom to another and say, “Well, mine’s worse than yours or yours is worse than hers.” It’s relative to who you are at any given moment in time.

When I was in elementary school and my girlfriend broke up with me, we had been going out for two weeks that was a rock bottom for me. I was heartbroken. I couldn’t imagine going to school any more, like life was over relative to who I was at the time.

The major rock bottoms I had when I was 19 years old I was one of the top sales reps for Cutco Cutlery. I never considered myself a salesperson but a buddy got me into – “Give this a chance.” I’m like, “Eh, I’ll try it just to get you off my back.” Ten days into the career I broke the company record. That sent me on a path of oh, maybe I’m not this mediocre person I’ve been my whole life. Maybe I can do something extraordinary. I went on to break all these records.

A year and a half into the company that I was working with then, I was giving a speech at one of their events. After my speech driving home in a brand new Ford Mustang – I had bought my first new car a few weeks prior – I was hit head-on by a drunk driver at 70 to 80 miles per hour. Then my car spun off the drunk driver, another car hit me from the side, directly in my door at 70 miles an hour and instantaneously broke 11 of my bones.

My femur broke in half. My pelvis broke three separate times. My humerus bone behind my bicep broke in half. My elbow was shattered. My eye socket was shattered. Ruptured lung, punctured lung, ruptured spleen, so on and so forth. I actually, clinically, I was dead. I clinically was found dead at the scene. I died for six minutes, was in a coma for six days and was told my doctors that I would never walk again.

Came out of the coma and three weeks later took my first step and went on to fully recover and walk again. That was really – the turning point for me there was – or I decided maybe I’m meant to do more than just stay in sales because I was going to stay with the company forever. I loved the company. I decided I had to do more.

I had always wanted to be a professional keynote speaker, Pete, because I had been speaking at all these conferences for my company. I thought man, I would love to do this for a living. There are these people like Tony Robbins and you see all these – this is what they do. I would love that. It would be like a dream come true.

I had this kind of – I don’t know if you’d call it an epiphany or just a realization – I thought maybe that’s why I’m going through this experience. They say everything happens for a reason, but I’m a firm believer that it’s our responsibility to choose the reasons. It’s not predetermined. It’s not fate. It’s not out of our control.

Something bad could happen, you can say “This happened because life’s unfair and there is no God.” You can find all sorts of reasons why everything happens or you can say what I did, I went, “Maybe I’m supposed to learn from this and grow from this and take this head on so that I can learn how to teach other people to take their adversity head on.” That’s what I did and I launched that into a speaking career.

Then fast forward and kind of bringing it to what led into more morning rituals, in 2008 when the US economy crashed, I crashed with it. I lost over half my coaching clients, I was a coach at the time, half my income in 2008, couldn’t pay my mortgage, I lost my house, I cancelled my gym membership, my body fat percentage tripled in six months. It was just this real six month downward spiral.

A sequence of events led me to go on a run and listen to an audio from Jim Rohn.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, Jim Rohn. The musical—

Hal Elrod
The great Jim Rohn.

Pete Mockaitis
I love the music in his voice.

Hal Elrod
Yeah, absolutely. Jim Rohn, this is the quote that he said on that run. This quote came to my life faster than I ever thought possible and it really is the catalyst for the Miracle Morning. He said “Your level of success will seldom exceed your level of personal development because success is something you attract by the person you become.”

In that moment I went, I’m not dedicating time every day to my personal development, therefore, I’m not becoming the person that I need to be to create the success that I want in my life. I had this epiphany that I’ve got to go figure out what the world – I’m going to run home and figure out what the world’s most successful people do for their personal development.

I’m going to find the best personal development practice in history of humanity or best known to man and I’m going to do that. And I didn’t know what it was going to be. I ran home and I Googled best personal development practices of millionaires, billionaires, CEOs, Olympians, you name it.

And I had a list of six different practices. They were all timeless. They had all been practiced for centuries. I almost went well, none of these are new. I think we’re really conditioned in our society to look for the new, the new app, the new movie, the new season on Netflix. We want new, new, new. We’re all new.

Pete Mockaitis
And you’ve got to update the app like every month.

Hal Elrod
Yeah, exactly. I almost dismissed these. I was like, ah, these are timeless. It’s almost really silly. When you really translate it you can say these are the practices that the world’s most successful people have been doing for centuries. I want something new. It makes no sense.

The epiphany I finally went, wait a minute. This is what successful people do. I don’t do these. Then the real epiphany was which one of these am I going to do and then I went wait, what if I did all of these.

What if I woke up tomorrow morning an hour earlier, because that was the only time I could figure out in the schedule to add an hour. I was working all day trying to not lose my house, which didn’t work. I lost my house. But I was just trying to stay alive, stay afloat. I didn’t feel like I had any extra time.

Even though I wasn’t a morning person I thought if I want my life to improve, I’ve got to improve. I’ve got to wake up an hour earlier and I’ve got to do one of these six practices. The epiphany was what if I did all of them, what if I woke up tomorrow morning an hour earlier and I did the six most timeless, proven, personal development practices in the history of humanity.

I woke up the next day, I did them. I sucked at all of them. We can talk about what the practices are, but I didn’t know how to do – one is meditation. I didn’t know how to meditate. I didn’t know how to do any of these things really well. I was really terrible at all of them.

But one hour into it my very first day, my very first hour of what is now called the Miracle morning, it didn’t have a name back then, I felt incredible. I felt confident for the first time in six months. I felt energized. I felt motivated. I felt like I had clarity.

The realization is if I start every day like this, where I become a better version of the person I was that went to bed the night before, and I do this consistently day after day after day after day, it is only a matter of time before I become the person that I need to be that can create the success that I want, any level that I want in any and every area of my life.

I thought it would 6 to 12 months; it was less than 2 months that I more than doubled my income. I went from being in the worst shape of my life physically to committing to running a 52-mile ultra-marathon. I had never run more than a mile before. My depression went away within a couple of days. Because my life changed so dramatically and so quickly, I started calling it my Miracle Morning. The rest is history.

Years later I wrote the book and now it’s this worldwide movement with about a half million people from what we can track every day do their miracle morning and the results are really amazing.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s an awesome story. It makes sense in terms of having engaged some of these practices. I love the gumption, okay, I’m going to do all of them. You put this together into a snazzy acronym, SAVERS, standing for these six steps of silence, affirmations, visualization, exercise, reading and scribing, which means writing. I understand you’ve got to make the acronym work, no shame there.

Hal Elrod
It was my wife’s idea for an acronym. I was writing the book one day and I was frustrated. I go “Sweetie, Stephen Covey’s got the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People and Robert Kiyosaki’s got the Cashflow Quadrant. These gurus always create this memorable system.” I said, “I’ve got these six hodgepodge practices and I didn’t invent any of them.”

She goes, “Sweetheart, why don’t you get a – calm down first of all,” because I was all stressed, she goes, “Why don’t you get a thesaurus and see if you can find other words with the same meaning and make an acronym?” The acronym is a huge part of it. She gets all the credit for that.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s good. I guess along with that then, I’d love to dig into each of these practices and just hear a little bit in terms of what it means then the best practice or a pitfall associated with doing it or an optimal dosage or amount of time to do each of these.

I imagine in many ways the answer is it doesn’t really matter, just do something like that and you’re all good. But if there’s some finer points to maximizing, well, hey, you’re the expert. I want to hear them. Let’s dig into silence and then the rest.

Hal Elrod
Here’s what I’ll preface all of this with. I am a very results-oriented person. A lot of these six practices are taught in a way that’s kind of woo-woo, that makes somebody feel good while they do it, but they don’t necessarily see measurable improvements in their life.

And for me that was unacceptable. It was unacceptable in my own practice, but then especially when I wrote the book I thought, I need to make these really practical and actionable and not just fluffy and airy-fairy and woo-woo. I’ll give a tip on each of these in terms of how do you make it kind of practical and results oriented.

The first S in SAVERS stands for silence. I’m actually really – it was originally meditation. I’m really glad that it became silence because some people, their silence is prayer. They might not want to meditate. Or for me it’s actually a combination of both. But meditation is really the crux. It’s the majority of my time in silence.

If you think about it, most of us, we don’t have a lot of time in silence. It’s usually we’re – it’s kind of chaos from the time we get up, then we’re in the car listening to podcasts or the radio, music, something like that. Then we’re at work with people and on phone calls. There’s usually not a lot of time for kind of peaceful, purposeful silence.

Yet that’s when – when we quiet our mind, that’s when our best ideas come. We tap into our inner wisdom. We tap into the wisdom of – if you want to get woo-woo for a second – the universe or higher intelligence, whatever you want to call it, God.

But meditation, the way it’s been taught, people often – they’re taught to clear your mind. Most people, they can’t do that or it’s very challenging and it takes somebody years to get where they can actually do that. Well, for me, I want results. I will use my meditation as a way to set the mindset for the day.

I’ll look at my schedule and I’ll go “Okay, what do I need to accomplish today?” It depends on what’s on the agenda. I just finished writing a new book. When I was working on that book, every day, every morning, I’d meditate before I’d write and I would go, “Man, I need ideas.” I need some content for today. I would set my intention for the meditation.

My intention would often be “Okay, what am I working on? What chapter am I working on today? I need ideas for this chapter.” I would just set that as an intention. Then I would meditate. I would always have my notes app on my phone in front of me with my timer going for ten minutes usually is what I meditate for.

I don’t think there was a single day where I wasn’t flooded six ideas, where I would pause the meditation timer, I’d open up the note tab and I would write an idea. Then I would go back to mediate and then I would just sit there.

Here’s the difference, I wasn’t trying to think. When you force thought, you don’t usually get your best thought. It’s in those moments – that’s why when we’re in the shower, not even thinking about something, we have our best ideas. When we’re falling asleep, not even thinking about something, we have our best ideas.

This is a way to engineer that space for you’re tapping into your genius every single morning so that you bring those ideas and that clarity into your day. That’s one way to meditate.

Another way to do it is sometimes I might have a speech for that day and I go “I need to feel confident. I’m speaking.” I will literally just affirm things while I’m in my meditation. I’ll just affirm things like what did I do today – I chose three statements.

I’ve been having some cognitive challenges because I just went through – I just finished cancer. I beat cancer, but I still have chemotherapy ongoing for maintenance and it really – the effects to your cognitive ability are really damaging. They call it chemo brain. They kind of laugh it off, but it really – it’s a very real thing what it does to your brain. I’ve had a lot of trouble with my memory and this and that.

This morning I just meditated on saying “I am brilliant. My brain is brilliant. My memory is excellent.” I forgot what the third one was. Anyway, the point is use meditation not to remove thought. You can. Sometimes I’ll meditate in that way where I just try to get a state of being really loving and peaceful.

But ultimately I typically will have a specific result that I want to generate internally, either mentally or emotionally, and I will set that intention going into the meditation. I will use the meditation actively to do that. I will think something over and over and over while I deeply feel it in a way that will serve me for the rest of the day. Any questions? Does that make sense?

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, yeah, I hear you. Can you give us a sample of your internal dialogue of going over and over and over again?

Hal Elrod
Yeah, that was the one today. Here, I’ll bring it up real quick.

This morning I went “My brain is brilliant. My memory is excellent. My heart is pure.” I just affirmed that. What’s interesting is we’re about to get into the A of SAVERS, which is affirmations. But I often will combine the SAVERS.

For example, when I get to the E in SAVERS is exercise, while I’m exercising, I’ll often do the V, which is visualization. I’m then making that mind-body connection and leveraging the power of both simultaneously. I’m also being efficient with time.

“My brain is brilliant. My memory is excellent. My heart is pure.” That is an affirmation, but I will meditate on that affirmation and then kind of get the benefits of both.

Sometimes I will – I have pictures – I’m in the room where I do my Miracle Morning right now. I have pictures of my children, my family, my wife up along the wall. Sometimes I will just look at those pictures and just maybe look at one. I’ll look at my picture of my daughter like I am right now and I’ll just internalize the gratitude and the love that I feel for her. Then I’ll close my eyes and I’ll just meditate on that for a minute or two. Then I’ll go to my son.

Pete Mockaitis
When you say meditate on that, you’re just sort of experiencing that.

Hal Elrod
I’m just feeling it.

Pete Mockaitis
As opposed to letting your mind chatter in any direction.

Hal Elrod
I’m just deeply feeling it.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah.

Hal Elrod
Yeah, I’m just deeply felling that emotion. Yeah, that experience.

I’ll use meditation a lot. I’m big on gratitude. I’ll often use meditation – I’ll simply take the emotion of gratitude or the experience of gratitude, most people when they experience gratitude, it’s usually at the intellectual level. If you say “What are you grateful for?” they can list things off. They feel it in their head, but there’s a big difference between intellectual gratitude and deep, heart-felt soulful gratitude at the level where it puts you in tears.

I’ll use meditation to try to get there, to try to get to feel that much of an emotion that serves me. Again, the emotion – gratitude is one, it could be confidence, it could be love, it could be whatever.

I do pray. I’m a big believer in the power of prayer. That’s a whole other conversation, but prayer on even the scientific level as well as the spiritual level. A lot of times I’ll use my silence as prayer and I’ll just – for me, it’s very fluid. There is no right or wrong and that’s probably the biggest – here’s the biggest key.

Let me, whether we close with this for this portion, but when it comes to silence, if you’re at all overwhelmed by meditation or anything like that, set a timer on your phone for ten minutes and be in silence for ten minutes, that’s it.

The only way you can fail is if you judge yourself for any part of your experience. If you go, “Oh, I shouldn’t be having these thoughts. Oh, I shouldn’t be thinking. Oh, I shouldn’t be feeling this way. Oh, I shouldn’t have thought of that.” That’s the only way you can fail at silence is to judge your experience. If you just sit there in silence, you cannot help but get value.

Number one, it lowers your cortisol levels. Cortisol is the fear and the stress chemical in your body, the hormone that causes fear, that causes stress. When you sit in silence, it’s scientifically proven – there are over 1,400 scientific studies that prove the benefits of meditation. It’s scientifically proven that when you sit in silence, it lowers your cortisol.

Now, granted, if you are intentionally thinking stressful thoughts, I don’t know that that would achieve that objective. That’s where judging yourself is a stressful thought. But yeah, if you sit in silence, you will lower your stress, you will gain clarity, new insights will come into your mind and you’ll get better with practice.

Your first day in silence is your worst day in silence. Every day that you do it, you’ll stumble upon new levels of consciousness, new ways of feeling, thinking, being that once you grab them, you can then get there quicker, easier, stay there longer. The benefits of spending time in silence will simply be amplified and deepened over time.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s great. Then with silence, what makes it silence is just that you’re not actively reading something, listening to something, tapping away on your phone, you are – or in motion, so you are seated and you may have your eyes closed and you’re just sort of letting your own internal self be the focus.

Hal Elrod
Yeah, exactly. I like to sit up straight. I bought a meditation pillow on Amazon a few months back. That’s been big. There’s something about just having a – it was like 29.99 or something – having a spot that I specifically go to meditate. Because before I got lazy in my meditation where I was doing it on the couch kind of slouched over.

If there’s any wrong way to meditate, really the big one is judging yourself for the experience, thinking that you’re doing it wrong. You’re not. As long as you’re in silence, you’re not doing it wrong. If you have a negative thought, just let it pass and focus on something positive.

But if there’s a wrong way to mediate beyond judging yourself, it is your posture. When you sit slouched over, laying down, your breath slows, you’re not – you want to find the balance between relaxation and alertness, attentiveness. Sitting up straight, sitting tall, breathing deeply, being really alert and aware, but very calm and relaxed, that’s the ideal state for that silence.

Like you said, it just means that there’s no stimuli. There’s no stimuli, where you’re not focused on something. That’s why closing your eyes is good. Now there are ways of meditating where you can have your eyes open. Sometimes I will open my eyes and so I’ll look at the pictures of my family or I’ll look at a beautiful picture of a sunset/sunrise that puts me in a really nice state.

But yeah, everything that you said is correct, just doing – by the way, setting a timer is the other piece I was going to mention. You don’t have to think “How long am I doing it? Am I doing it long enough? Should I do it longer?” Don’t be checking the clock, just have your timer set.

That way you know, “I’m free for ten minutes to not think about anything,” or think about, whatever, “I’m free for ten minutes just to sit here in silence. I’m not going to lose track of time because that timer is going to go off when it’s time for me to get up and do my affirmations or whatever’s next in your Miracle Morning.

Pete Mockaitis
Awesome. Cool. Yeah, let’s talk about the affirmations next in the Miracle Morning. What do you mean by that and what do you not mean by that?

Hal Elrod
I’m biased in that I’m often asked do you have a favorite of the SAVERS and the politically correct answer would be no, they’re all equally important. But the answer is affirmations are my favorite by far.

Affirmations are – first let me just say, I believe they’ve been taught incorrectly or ineffectively I should say by self-help gurus, if you will, for, I don’t know, decades. I don’t know how long. But let me define what an affirmation is then I’ll talk about why they’ve been taught wrong and what I find is the most effective way to do them.

An affirmation is simply a written statement that directs your focus towards something of value. Now, you could write affirmations that were negative, that were not of value. Obviously that’s not an objective of yours. We have written statements that directly focus towards something of value.

The way affirmations have been taught, there are two problems with the way they’ve been taught for decades, I don’t know, centuries, I don’t know how long.

Number one is a form of affirmation that’s essentially lying to yourself, trying to trick yourself into believing something that is not true or is not yet true. For example, let’s say you want to be a millionaire, well, a lot of self-help pioneers have taught, just put the words “I am” in front of whatever you want to be and say that to yourself until you believe it.

You say, “I am a millionaire. I am a millionaire. I am a millionaire.” But we all know the truth. We know our truth. We’re not a millionaire. We want to be millionaire. We say, “I’m a millionaire,” our subconscious or even our conscious mind is going to go “No, you’re not. You’re lying.” Then you’re fighting with reality, which is never ideal. The truth will always prevail.

You go “I am a millionaire,” and your brain goes, “No you’re not. You’re not even close.” You’re like, “Shut up. I’m doing my affirmations.” Number one problem with affirmations the way they’ve been taught is lying to yourself is not optimal.

The second problem with affirmations the way they’ve been taught is that self-help pioneers have taught you to use flowery passive language. We’ll still on the topic of finances. You may have heard this affirmation; it’s very popular, or some variation of this. “I am a money magnet. Money flows to me effortlessly and in abundance.”

A lot of people say that affirmation and they really like it. I believe they like it because it makes them feel good in the moment. They go, “Man, I checked my bank balance this morning and it was negative, so I need some affirmations to make me feel better. I’m a money magnet. Oh, that feels good. Money is flowing to me effortlessly. All of my financial problems will be taken care of by the universe,” or whatever.

It’s like no, that’s not how money works. It’s not effortless. That’s very rare. Go buy a lotto ticket, hope. That’s not going to happen most likely. The way that money is created is by you adding value to the world or to the marketplace and then you’re compensated for that value.

I’ll give you an example of how to use affirmations in a way that is not based in lying to yourself or in this passive language that makes you feel good at the moment, but takes your responsibility away from creating the results that you want. There’s four steps to create affirmations that produce results.

Number one is, affirm what you’re committed to. Don’t say, “I’m a millionaire,” or not even “I want to be a millionaire,” say “I’m committed to becoming a millionaire,” maybe even add a when, “By the time I’m 40 or 50,” or whatever or in the next 12 months or 24 months, or whatever.

Start with number one what am I committed to. It’s a very different when you affirm something you’re committed to versus something that you think you are or want to be that you know you’re not.

The second thing is why is that deeply meaningful. After you affirm what you’re committed to, reinforce, remind yourself, why is that deeply meaningful to you. If you want to become a millionaire, why? Is it because you want to … financial freedom for your family, because you want to buy fancy cars.

Depending on how meaningful it really is, that’s going to determine how much leverage you have over yourself to actually do the things necessary to get you there. That’s number three is affirm what specifically you’re committed to doing that will ensure your success. What are the activities you’re committed to that will ensure your success?

I’m committed to increasing my income to $100,000 a year and saving 50% or whatever. Get very specific on the activities that you’re going to do. When I was in sales I would affirm how many phone calls I was going to be making every day because I knew if I made that number of phone calls, my success was inevitable. I couldn’t fail. The average … would work themselves out if I made my phone calls every day.

Then the fourth part of the affirmation formula is when specifically are you committed to implementing those activities. When are you going to make your phone calls? When are you going to run every day to lose that weight? When are you going to take your significant other out on a date or tell them you love them or write? What and when are you going to – what are the activities and when are you going to do them?

Those four steps: what are you committed to, why is it deeply meaningful to you, what activities are you committed to doing that will ensure your success, then when, specifically, are you committed to doing those activities. Those are the four steps create what I call Miracle Morning affirmations.

Miracle Morning affirmations are practical and they’re result-oriented and they reinforce the commitments that you need to stick to ensure that you achieve the results that you want to achieve in your life.

Pete Mockaitis
I dig. It. Well, we’re having fun here, but I could get perhaps the one-minute version of the visualization, the exercise, the reading and the scribing?

Hal Elrod
Yeah, I’m long-winded, so thank you for setting me up. I appreciate that.

Visualization, here’s what I’ll say two things on it. Number one is the world’s best athletes, almost all of them use visualization including UFC fighters. There’s a reason for that. It’s they visualize themselves performing optimally and achieving their goals so that they go there mentally and emotionally before they ever step on the court or before they ever open the book or before they ever write.

They’ve already gone there in their mind, so when it’s real time, when it’s game time, when it’s practice time, it’s that much easier to go there.

The other thing I’ll say on visualization is don’t just visualize the end result, visualize – in fact, more important, visualize the activity. See yourself getting on the phone to make those calls. See yourself opening your computer to write those words that’s going to make that into a book. See yourself going to the gym or lacing up your running shoes and heading out your front door, especially if you don’t feel like it or you don’t like doing those things.

See yourself doing it with a smile on your face in a way that’s appealing. When I was training for my ultra-marathon, I hated running. Every morning I visualized myself enjoying running. Because I did it in the morning in my living room, when it was time to run, I actually had already created this anticipation that I would want to do it. Then I actually felt that when it was time to go for a run. That’s the power in visualization.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s great. Now when you say visualize yourself, I’m thinking almost like dreams. Sometimes they’re first person, sometimes they’re third person. Do you visualize, like you’re seeing yourself from a third-person vantage point putting on the shoes?

Hal Elrod
You can do both, but I usually do yeah, first person and then – or no, third person, where I see myself from the outside. I see myself like I’m watching a movie of myself. Part of that movie will involve me looking in the mirror usually. That’s part of it almost always.

Pete Mockaitis
The dramatic montage music.

Hal Elrod
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, feel free to play the music. Literally play that music on your phone while you’re doing the visualization. A lot of people do that.

The E is for exercise. Here’s what I’ll say is that if you like to – if you don’t exercise at all, this applies to you. If you exercise – if you already go, “Dude, I go to the gym after work or on my lunch break or I like to run in the evenings. It’s my-“ this still applies to you and here’s why.

I’m not telling you that you need to switch your gym time to the morning, what I’m telling you is that the benefits of exercising in the morning even for 60 seconds, if you’re sitting on the couch going, “I know I should – I don’t have any energy. I’m so tired,” stand up and do 60 seconds of jumping jacks.

I promise you at the end of the 60 seconds, you’ll be breathing hard. Your blood will be flowing throughout your lymph system. Your brain – the oxygen, your cells will be oxygenated. You’ll feel ten times more awake than you did before you did those 60 seconds of jumping jacks.

I in the morning usually do stretching followed by a seven minute workout. That’s an app on the phone. It’s also on YouTube. It’s totally free. I highly recommend it. It’s a full body workout in seven minutes. It’s fast-paced, so you get cardio as well as strength training, as well as stretching and flexibility. That’s what I recommend in the morning, just a little bit of exercise and –

Pete Mockaitis
What’s the video or app called? The seven-minute thing?

Hal Elrod
7 Minute Workout, number 7 Minute Workout.

Pete Mockaitis
It’s just called 7 Minute Workout. Okay, that’s easy.

Hal Elrod
Yeah, it’s phenomenal. There’s a few different apps. I use the free version. Then the – actually although I subscribe to the monthly version to open up all the different exercises and different workouts and this and that.

But the R is for reading. I don’t need to say much on this is that we’re all, every single one of us is one book away, whatever topic we want to improve in our life, we’re one book away from learning everything that we need to learn to improve that area of our life.

You want to be happy? There’s a book on that. In fact, there’s hundreds. What to have an amazing marriage? There’s a book on that. In fact, there’s hundreds. Do you want to be a millionaire or be wealthy and financially free? There’s hundreds of books on that.

In fact, so I just made a documentary called The Miracle Morning. It reveals the morning rituals of some of the world’s most successful people. In that is world-class entrepreneur Joe Polish.

He said that, he goes, “When I meet someone and I say ‘What’s the best book you’ve read in the last year?’ and they go, ‘Well, I don’t read. I haven’t read a book.’” He said, “It blows my mind that in places where people have access to books and they know how to read and therefore they have access to everything they need to know to transform anything in their life to be at the most extraordinary level they could be,” he says, “It blows my mind that people aren’t reading every single day.”

Why aren’t you reading every day? It could be five or ten minutes a day. It doesn’t have to be a long time. Think about it, if you read 10 pages a day, that’s 300 pages a month. No, no, let’s say 5 pages a day, that’s 150 pages a month. That’s one self-help book a month, 12 a year. You’re a different person.

You’re separating yourself from 95% of our society and you’re joining the top 5% that reads those books because you’re learning everything you need to transform any area of your life. Any questions on reading and then we can dive into the last one?

Pete Mockaitis
That’s great. No.

Hal Elrod
Okay. The final S is the word scribing. That’s a pretentious word for writing, but I needed an S for the final part of the SAVERS to round out the acronym.

For me, journaling is – this is where goal setting is involved in scribing. That’s under that umbrella. Journaling is what I would – that would be my scribing. I use an app called Five Minute Journal. They also make a hardcover version if you prefer to write by hand. You can also just write freehand on a piece of paper.

The Five Minute Journal, I like it because it’s scientifically researched and it’s very simple and takes five minutes. It’s simply pre-prompted statements or questions. There’s just a few.

In the morning it’s three things I’m grateful for and the three most important things that I need to do today to make today a great day. I don’t know if it’s worded that exact words, but that’s paraphrasing. Of all things on my to-do list, what are the three that will make the biggest difference in my life, my business, etcetera.

Every morning I start by focusing on three things I’m grateful for, which remind me that my life is already amazing. It doesn’t matter what’s going on outside of me if I focus on internally what I have to be grateful for, everything is – there’s always things to feel amazing about. There’s always things to complain about. What we focus on becomes our reality.

I start with gratitude, then I look at my to-do list, I look at my goals, like okay, of the infinite things I could work on today and out of the 20 things that are on my goal and to-do list, what are the three that will make the biggest impact for me right now and move me forward toward my most important goals?

If you think about it, most people we don’t take the time to just get that level of clarity. It only takes a couple of minutes, but it’s a game changer.

Because here’s the problem, most of us are busy. Every day we’re busy. Being busy tricks our brain into thinking we’re being productive. But productive isn’t busy. Productive is busy doing the things that move us toward our biggest goals, our greatest dreams, the life that we truly want to live and the impact we truly want to make.

That simple act of scribing every morning, forcing your brain to clarify it in writing, what are those top three priorities, that is – for me, that’s been a game changer. It’s allowed me to make massive progress on these goals that once were just fantasies that I never even thought – really believed I could accomplish.

Like making a documentary, that was a fantasy. I didn’t know how to do that. Now we just debuted at a film festival. That will come out probably later this year.

A lot of that is because of – it’s all because of the SAVERS. It’s all because of this process reinforcing the beliefs through meditation, through silence, and affirmations, and visualization, and all of these practices all combine to really create optimal physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual kind of capacity every day that will allow you to become the level ten person that you need to be, if you will, on a scale of one to ten, to create the level ten life that you want, that I believe that all of us really deserve.

Pete Mockaitis
That is beautiful. Thank you. Well, Hal, tell me, anything else you want to mention before we shift gears and hear about some of your favorite things?

Hal Elrod
The point is that the SAVERS, any one of them will change your life, but if you implement – try them all for a month. I would say do the 30-day challenge, the Miracle Morning 30-day challenge, do them all for a month, either 5 minutes each for a half an hour total routine or 10 minutes each for an hour routine.

Then you’ll have real experience to go, “Okay, do I want to keep doing all 6 of these?” Maybe only 4 of them really resonated with you. You only want to do 4. Maybe 4. It could be 5. I don’t know. But try them all and see what happens. It’s pretty life changing.

Pete Mockaitis
Awesome. Now could you share with us a favorite book?

Hal Elrod
Favorite book is – well, it’s this book – one of my favorite books is called Vision to Reality. In fact, let me give you two. They’re by the same author. I just got her new book. Vision to Reality is her first – I think it was her first book. Oh no, it’s her second book by Honoree Corder.

Her new book is called Stop Trying so F*cking Hard Live Authentically, Design a Life you Love, and Be Happy. It’s in my hand right now. I’m reading. I’m about halfway through. I am loving this book. She’s a great author. She’s written like 25 books. Her original Vision to Reality has been my favorite for a long time, but I think the new one might surpass that. It’s called Stop Trying so F*cking Hard.

Pete Mockaitis
How about a favorite tool?

Hal Elrod
Favorite tool would be that app I mentioned earlier, the Five Minute Journal app. That’s one of my favorite. I put one picture every day and it allows me to capture my life every day for the past few years that I’ve used it. Reflecting on that is really meaningful.

Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite nugget, something you share that really seems to connect and resonate with folks?

Hal Elrod
The biggest thing is we all usually have this monkey on our back of urgency, like, “Man, I want to be where that guy is or where she is.” “Man, I have all these goals and dreams; I want to be there now.” It creates this feeling of scarcity, where we’re not where we want to be.

What I found, not only in my own life, but studying other people is that any time you find yourself wishing or wanting that you were further along than you are, just realize that when you finally get to the point that you’ve been working so hard for so long, you almost never wish it would have happened any sooner.

Instead, you look back and you see the timing and the journey were perfect. All of the adversity, all of the challenges, it all played a part in you becoming the person that you needed to be to get where you want to go. If you can take that hindsight and bring it into your life now, use that to be at peace.

No matter where you are right now, no matter what’s going on, no matter difficult or whatever is going on, be at peace with where you are, every day, along that journey while you simultaneously maintain a healthy sense of urgency to take action every day to get where you want to go. But don’t get there out of a feeling of stress, and anxiety, and I’m not where I want to be, just embrace where you are.

If you’re alive, you’re perfect. No matter what’s going on around you, all that matters is what’s going on inside you. Be at peace with where you are and take steps every day to get where you want to go.

Pete Mockaitis
If folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Hal Elrod
Go to MiracleMorning.com. That’s probably the best place. There’s a bunch of resources there. You can put in your name and email and get the first few chapters of the book for free. You can get – it comes also with an audio training for free on the Miracle Morning, a video training for free. Of course, the book on Amazon you can get the audio book, the paperback, the Kindle. That’s probably the best place to buy it.

Pete Mockaitis
Beautiful. Do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks seeking to be awesome at their jobs?

Hal Elrod
Yeah, here’s the thing, to be awesome at your job, I think to be awesome at anything, it’s really about who you are as a person. There’s so many components to that. There’s your knowledge, your emotional intelligence, your physical energy, the enthusiasm that you bring. There’s many components to who you are.

To me that’s what the Miracle Morning is. It’s dedicating time every day to become better. Not that there’s anything wrong with you, but we all have unlimited potential as a human being, if you want to get better at your job, become a better version of you, dedicate time to your personal development.

Here’s the thing, it doesn’t have to be in the morning. You can do a miracle evening if you wanted. Just dedicate that time so that every day you become better than you were the day before. You become more knowledgeable, you lower your stress, you increase your belief in yourself, your confidence. All of the things the Miracle Morning does for you, you do that every day and you can’t help but bring a better version of you to work every single day.

Pete Mockaitis
Beautiful. Hal, this has been a real treat. Thanks for unpacking this and giving some finer distinctions. I wish you and the Miracle Morning and documentary and all your up to tons of luck.

Hal Elrod
Pete, man, I appreciate you. Thank you so much for having me on. For those of you listening, I love you. I appreciate you. Thank you for tuning in and please leave a review for Pete on iTunes.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, thank you.

Pete Mockaitis
Jarrod, thanks so much for joining us here on the How to be Awesome at Your Job podcast.

Jarrod Warren
Pete, I’m so excited to be here. Thanks for having me on.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh yeah, I’m excited to have you too. I want to start with your story. It sounds pretty dramatic and interesting with regard to you. You have experienced some burnout and in a powerful way, and also bounced back in a powerful way. How does that work?

Jarrod Warren
Well, I’m just super excited that I bounced back in a powerful way because I find so many people don’t do that. They get into this burnout routine. I call it a routine because they sit there and they stay in it without even really understanding how to get out of it.

I would have told you probably back in 2015 when I started experiencing some of the burnout, the fatigue, the self-sabotage, that stuff had been going on long before I actually got into it, but it really came to a head I guess and really came to a point where I was like “Man, I can’t do this anymore.”

There was a lot of pride wrapped up in that. I’ll be transparent with you. There was a lot of people are not going to outwork me, people are not going to out sleep me. Sleep was a big thing that I had a lot of pride wrapped up in. My parents could operate on very little sleep, still do to this day.

I was one of those guys that I would tell people “I’m experiencing a lot of stress. I can’t get a lot of sleep.” Their first thought is, “Well, have you tried melatonin? Have you tried these sleeping pills?” I’m like, “No, no, no, make no mistake about it, I can sleep. If I close my eyes for just a couple of seconds, I’m out like a zombie.” I just don’t stay in bed very long.

I’m setting my alarm for super early in the morning. I’m getting up really early in the morning. I’m just not in bed very long.

In 2015, I really thought my brain was turning to cabbage. That’s the best way I can describe it. I couldn’t focus on things. I couldn’t concentrate on things. Of course, people say, “Oh yeah man, I have ADHD. I can’t concentrate either.” This was way different.

I was concerned about early onset dementia, things like that. I just couldn’t focus on anything. I couldn’t look people in the eyes and have straight conversations because my brain was sending signals to my body that things are not right. I didn’t know what to do with that because I had never experienced that before.

Some of your listeners out there hearing this might think, “Man, I’m going through some brain fog. I’m going through some fatigue. I keep fighting through that and things aren’t getting better. They’re only getting worse.”

The best way I can describe it, Pete, is I was walking – visualize this – I’m walking down this road and this giant wind, this hurricane-force wind just keeps blowing me off the road and I’ve got to get back up on the road and then it blows me off again or I wobble around. That’s what my thought was like during the day.

I’d always been a super hard charger. We may get into some of my career and what I’ve done and things like that, but I’ve always been a super hard charger. I was like man, this is not good. This is not right. I can’t do. I can’t run at the pace and the hustle and the grind and all this stuff people talk about. I can’t do it anymore because I’m so fatigued both mentally and physically and the mentally started taking over more than the physically or the physical.

I went to a neurologist, one of the leading neurologists here in Dallas. He got in there with his staff and for like two hours they just typed away on computers. He came back to me and said, “We’re going to run you through a bunch of tests. We’re going to run you through a lot of scenarios as far as testing out what this is because if there’s something there, we want to know what it is. But, my friend, I think you need to get some sleep.”

Of course, I’m like, “Okay, doctor.” I’m like okay, I kind of want there to be something. You never wish there to be something but it’s like “I want there to be something because that can’t be the answer.”

He comes back and says, “Like I said, we’ll run you through the tests, but you need to get some sleep. What I want you to do is I want you to track your ten day rolling average of time in bed, from the time you go to sleep – from the time you get in bed to the time you get out of bed. I want you to track your ten day rolling average.”

Pete Mockaitis
Ten day rolling average. That is a very specific statistical measure of your sleep.

Jarrod Warren
I get now why he said that because if you just track your every single night sleep, there’s going to be so many data points over the course of even a six month or a three month period that it’s not indicative of how your real sleep patterns are going. I understand why he did that now.

I said, “Okay, I’ll track my ten day rolling average.” On my first ten day rolling average, Pete, my time in bed was four hours and three minutes. That was just ten day rolling average.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s just time in bed. That’s not even your sleep.

Jarrod Warren
Yeah, exactly, exactly. That’s time in bed.

Pete Mockaitis
Were you using just a standard notepad or app or how were you kind of getting the data?

Jarrod Warren
I use an app called Sleep Cycle.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh yeah.

Jarrod Warren
It’s awesome. So many people in the bio-hacking community and neurological community, the sleep community, people that I follow nowadays and associate with, they follow this Sleep Cycle app. It’s so good.

What I would do is I would get in bed at night and I would set my alarm. I would start. Then when I’d wake up in the morning the first thing I’d do is turn that thing off and it would track my sleep time. It’s awesome. It’s an incredible – it’s just an incredible app.

Four hours and three minutes. I reported that to him and his team. He said, “Like I said, we’re going to run you through an MRI, a neurocognitive brain study, an eight-hour neurocognitive test,” which wore me out, by the way. I’ve never been so mentally fatigued after that eight hour test of just using my brain all day long. He said, “But I think you need sleep.”

It was pretty apparent what he was getting at at that point was how important sleep is. I hadn’t really gotten into this bio-hacking, this peak performance type state that I’m in now, which is why I run my podcast, Success 101 podcast, that’s where all of this came from, which is just understanding how important all of this is.

He said, “Look, we’ve got to get you to five. It’s still going to suck at five hours, but we’ve got to get you to five and then we’ve got to get you to six.” I’m proud to say that since the end of 2015 to right now when we’re recording this in 2018 and really for quite a while in 2018 now even since almost the beginning of the year, I’ve been right at seven hours of sleep per night.

You’ve got to give some things up. If you’re a hard charger out there, if you want to be awesome at your job quote/unquote, if you’re looking at our society today, especially the Western culture, they tell you to be awesome at your job, you’ve got to hustle and grind. You’ve got to muscle it through. You’ve got to run through the brick walls. Nobody wants to do that.

I think we’re going to get out a couple of generations from now and realize “Man, they had it all wrong.” This whole social media hustle grind. Who knows what’s going to be around at that point. But nobody wants to do that. Everybody wants to just show up and have money fall in their lap and have the business deals fall in their lap. But the problem is we’re going about it in such a wrong way.

That was my story. It was like I had done the hustle for so long. I’d muscled it through for so long. I’d worked hard for so long and then life happened. I had my third child. I was running an office, a financial planning advisory firm that I run, which is my main staple here, coaching advisors, working with my own clients. Everything just kind of hit.

My burnout, I remember it just like yesterday. I was walking through my bedroom – it wasn’t even a really tough day. It was just a mediocre day. I’m walking through my bedroom. All of the sudden, just imagine taking 2 200-pound sandbags and just putting them on each shoulder. For the first time in my life I felt this physical weight. It was all for my mind, but it was a physical weight.

I got in the fetal position in my bedroom, something a guy like me, being transparent was too prideful to do in the past. I probably looked at those type of people as weak people. When I heard about panic attacks, I’m like, “Okay, let’s just be tougher. Let’s just work harder. Let’s just-”

Pete Mockaitis
Suck it up. Walk it off.

Jarrod Warren
Yeah, right. Let’s go. I’ll compete with you in anything. I’m the most competitive person you may know. Here I am in the fetal position in my bedroom. I’ve never experienced anything like that before. I’m going “Holy crap, what is this?”

I sat there for a couple of minutes. I gathered my thoughts. I recognized it. I was like this is a physical weight on me right now. I did some deep breathing exercises. I stood up and I sat on the edge of the bed. I remember it like yesterday.

It’s crazy. I don’t know why I’m getting emotional thinking about it right now. But I sat on the edge of the bed and I just thought literally what I just said. I was like, “What crap is that?” I got up slowly and I changed my clothes. I went and had dinner with my family.

About two months later to the date, something about half as bad happened. It wasn’t quite as bad. I just kind of stopped for a second and sat there and recognized it for what it was. I’m like no more, no more, no more, no more. Because what I realized was I was a shell of a person that I thought I was.

I was wrapped up, without even realizing it honestly, wrapped up in this pride of work harder than anybody, challenge anybody, competitiveness, that builds energy. I realized wow, I’m going about this the wrong way.

I remember the very next morning I woke up and thought something’s got to change. I’m going to be a horrible husband, a horrible father, a horrible mentor. I call myself a leader, what the heck am I doing. I didn’t know what leadership was. Leadership to me I realized was just a title.

I chastised people early on about that. So many people are chasing titles. They want to get in these positions and they don’t even know how to lead people then I found myself in that position. I was like, “Whoa, man. Holy cow, what a hypocrite I am.” I had to take a big step back.

Funny enough, I started listening to old school people, classic people like Jim Rohn, Zig Ziglar. What they taught me was is that optimism, which I always thought was kind of pie in the sky, hocus pocus, just shoot for the moon and you’ll land in the stars, all those sort of things. I’m like what the heck does that even mean?

I started realizing man, these guys understand functional optimism, which is life really sucks. Life is bad around you. This is a pretty chaotic world that we’ve built for ourselves, but look at all the blessings that you have that you can really understand to sink your teeth into each day and focus on those things. I started really understanding that.

Then I started noticing. It’s like you buy the red car and everyone on the street’s driving a red car. I started noticing that I’m burnt out and everybody else is burnt out too. I started recognizing that.

Where the Success 101 podcast was born was really me understanding that and saying, “Man, I’ve got to help people.” I’ve got to help people understand that you can hustle, you can grind. You can compete. You can do all of this. But if you’re not doing it in a smart way, you’re only not going to be great at your job, but you’re going to be pretty horrible in life as well, as a father, a husband, a leader, a mentor, a fill in the blank, whatever.

That was my path to a complete 180 turnaround. I’m so fortunate. I’m so blessed I learned that at a young age because where I am today – I don’t know where I would be if I didn’t have that turnaround. Where I am today, I’m just so thankful where I am now because I’ve gone through that.

Pete Mockaitis
I’m intrigued then because we have a unique situation. Sleep has come up numerous times on the show as one of the top things you can do to boost your performance. In you, have we an intriguing case study in that you were hardcore doing very little sleeping. Now you’re doing normal, recommended amounts of sleeping. You experienced a huge relief/release, no longer this crushing weight and pressure, which is awesome.

I guess I want to also focus in kind of talking to your former self, who when we’re talking about hard charging, no time for sleep, let’s get her done, let’s make it happen, all that stuff. Tell me, how has your performance been enhanced or impacted by increased sleep?

Jarrod Warren
Oh, it’s been unbelievable, just in the way my brain works, the way my body works, the way I process things, even down to the level of forming sentences differently than what I did before.

Because remember, early on, I told you I thought my brain was turning to cabbage. People kind of laugh when they hear that. I’m like, “No, really.” That’s not just me fabricating an idea or thought. I really felt that something was super wrong. What it showed me was it showed me the true importance of sleep.

I’ve been fortunate, I’ve been blessed. I’ve accomplished some things in my business, my financial planning career with my clients and running the office that I’m running here in Dallas at a topnotch financial firm and being an entrepreneur where all the financial risk is on me and with three kids. Actually, Pete, what happened was, I started having more kids and getting less sleep and performing better than before I had kids.

The typical persona of what people go through is they start having more kids, they have less sleep, they have more stress. I was able to combat that before all of that happened and actually do the reverse of that even with three kids now and running a 50% office and my own financial planning practice. When I say I’ve had a complete 180 turnaround, it’s the real deal. I’m so fortunate I went through that.

Pete Mockaitis
You talked about less sleep, so you had a recovery period of normal sleep and then you had more kids and then less sleep or could you—

Jarrod Warren
No, no, no, I’m saying most people have more kids and go through less sleep. I had more kids and went through more sleep.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, I’m with you.

Jarrod Warren
Because I had learned my lessons early on. Again, that’s why I’m fortunate. I’ve got clients who are in their 40s or 50s that are talking about really hitting this – call it a midlife crisis. I don’t know if that phrase is used a whole lot anymore, but just call it this reality of man, I’ve really wasted a lot of life. I’ve done things the wrong way. I’m coming to this revelation that I haven’t done things the right way.

I’ll be honest with you man, this happened to me just out of nowhere, but at the same time I’m so glad that I went through this before I was in my 40s or 50s because I look at those people and go man, that would have been me. I would have been even worse off than them. How much time waste?

If people ask me what my biggest fear is, it is a wasted life. You can quantify that in many different ways for many different people, but for me it has to do with what are you doing to add impact to other people? As a financial advisor I feel like I have a huge responsibility to add impact to other people, but also my family, also my wife, also my friends.

Pete, you know, years ago I went to my wife’s graduation and George Bush Senior – not to be political here – but George Bush Senior was talking there, whatever you think about him. He comes out and says, “I’ve been all over the world. I’ve done this. I’ve done that. I’ve been the President. I’ve done this. I’ve done that.” He said, “And the most important thing in life is family and friends.”

The crowd kind of just erupts because when somebody says something like that after what’s he’s accomplished, you’re like, “Wow, if he can say that, what are we doing?” I realized for my family, my friends, my business, it’s like wow, what a blessing it is to learn this at such a young age so that I can be awesome at what I’m doing every day because hindsight is 20/20.

Pete Mockaitis
So then can you tell us when it comes to – what’s the trick to getting more sleep while having more kids at the same time? How does one accomplish this?

Jarrod Warren
Wow, where do we start? Right now we’ve been in a hotel for four weeks because my youngest daughter decided that one of my older daughter’s shorts should go down the toilet and flooded our entire house. They came in – yeah – they came in and moved everything out of our house. If you go in our house right now it looks like a war zone.

We’ve been in a hotel for four weeks, looks like we’ll be there for another four to six weeks. It just – it’s one of those things. It is what it is. But I’m looking at that going, “Man, how would I have handled that before? How would I have looked at that?”

If you’ll let me, Pete, I’ll kind of go down this path of what, like I said, the hustle, the grind, muscling it through, hard work versus working hard. I do think there’s a difference there, kind of doing the same things that got you there doesn’t work as you get older.

Your question of as you have more kids, getting more sleep, it’s like if you keep doing the same things you were doing when you were 25, I mean, I used to go work out at 10:30 PM when I was 25 and I looked at that as a stress relief. If I went and worked out at 10:30 right now, that would be a huge stressor in my life just with everything that I’ve got going on.

But I’m really big on – like you have to have a morning routine and an evening routine. I know those phrases – your listeners may hear that and go, “Oh man, I’ve heard that like 100,000 times on other podcasts.” It’s kind of that old dead horse that’s been kicked too many times, right? But I’m going to keep coming back to it. You have to have a proper morning and evening routine.

I’ve said many times before, 80% or more, probably more than that, but 80% or more of an incredible day actually starts in the PM, the night before. People try to start attacking the day from the time they wake up and really we’re not very good at that. We snooze too much. I snooze – for 14 years I snoozed for an hour, over an hour. I would set my alarm for an hour before I had to get up knowing I was going to snooze for an hour. How ridiculous is that?

But 80% or more of an incredible day is actually starts at the PM. As a society Pete, we’re incredibly sleep deprived, especially here in the West, where we’re getting less than six hours of sleep. It’s actually almost down to five and a half. You might as well round it down to five and a half now. A couple of generations ago they were sleeping over ten hours a night before the light bulb was invented.

How do you think that changes a society? How do you think that changes a mindset, like your daily mindset when you’re grinding it out? Why do you think nowadays there’s so many people on SSRIs and stimulants and Adderall and Ritalin?

Why do you think that the depression rates and people saying that they’re unfulfilled are at all-time highs even though we have more technology, more ability, more opportunities to do more in business and profitability today than ever before and people are making more in our society, especially here in the West, than ever before. But worldwide, why do you think that is?

It’s because people are ruining their minds, just as I was. Science backs this up. Like stress, if you look at stress, stress is not good or bad. It’s all depending on how you look at it because you can say stress is what got me to the point of life that I am because it really challenged me or you could say stress really got me depressed. It all depends on how you look at it.

But stress stimulates the brain and it creates a chemical called noradrenaline. That improves or I guess disconnects neural connectivity. That’s why so many of us perform better before deadlines. You’ve probably heard that before from your guests. It’s like if there’s a deadline, if there’s a stressor, if there’s something I’m going to perform better at that.

But it’s a difficult balance because if we let stress impact us the wrong way, then we’re going to be going down the path that I was going down for so long. If we’re pushed too far, our bodies actually react by producing a steroid called cortisol. Your listeners may be very familiar with that. That puts us in a hyper-alert state. It increases our heart rate. It impacts all the people around us.

That’s what I was doing. I’m like, “Man, I’m a really bad leader. I’m a terrible husband. I will eventually be a terrible father if I stay on this path.” I had really high levels of cortisol in the blood testing that I did along with very, very low levels of testosterone and DHEA. I was really destroying my adrenal glands.

In fast-paced workplaces today like we’re all in, we’ve got to look at this stress as good stress. We’ve got to learn how to turn stress into good stress or we’re going to have adrenal fatigue.

For any of your listeners listening out there, if you haven’t heard to haven’t experienced adrenal fatigue, go Google that. There’s probably 100 million articles out there about what your adrenals do and how they play a very crucial part of you guys being really good at your job every day and really good at life.

But as leaders, we’ve got to check in to make sure that our top performers aren’t going through high stress levels, that we’re turning stress into positive stress without having people really drift into distress, I would call it.

Pete Mockaitis
So then, let’s talk about it. First of all, evening routines. I’ve heard much more about morning routines and we’re having Hal Elrod on the show a bit later.

Jarrod Warren
Oh, I like that.

Pete Mockaitis
I know he’s going to rock out on the morning routine, so let’s focus on the evening.

Jarrod Warren
His book – just to kind of go into that. When I was going through all of this, his book the morning – basically The Miracle Morning and The Miracle Morning for Sales People, which I read second, I mean genius.

Again, I said 80% or more of a great day starts actually in the evening. If any of your listeners are hearing this and they’re thinking “Man, I agree with Jarrod. I’m stressed. I’ve got a lot of stress going on. But wow, he’s talking about a lot of work, a lot of stuff I’ve got to do,” I really want you guys to maybe listen to this a couple of times through if you’re feeling that way and really dissect what I’m saying.

Because here’s the deal, and this is what I’ve learned, Pete, is that there’s a lot of things in life that if they constrain you, they can add more stress to your plate, let’s just face it. You’ve got these constraints, you’re bundled up.

But when you’re looking to eliminate stress, you’re looking for more of a positive mindset, you’re looking to turn a 180 from all the things I’ve described, having a structured lifestyle, especially a morning and evening routine, since that’s what we’re talking about here, can actually give you a ton of freedom.

I had Ed Mylett on my podcast recently. He and I both talked about how constrained lifestyles, if you’re doing it for the right reasons to reduce stress and get in a better state of structure, can actually give you more freedom rather than making you feel bound up.

What do I do in my evening routine? First of all I’m always testing. If you go to my tools and resources page, I think it’s Success101Podcast.com/Resources, you’re going to see all of the tools and testing that I always do. It’s my most updated page that I have on my site because I’m always testing new things.

But I would say number one, just at a base level, you guys have to be using a light blocker at night. When I say at night, again, 80% of a great morning starts the evening before, I would back that even up further until like before the time you get off work. I use a blue light blocker on my Apple devices all through the day and on my Windows devices at work all through the day. You’ll never—

Pete Mockaitis
So like f.lux?

Jarrod Warren
Yeah, I use f.lux.

Pete Mockaitis
So you’ve got f.lux going all day?

Jarrod Warren
Yeah, all day long.

Pete Mockaitis
F.lux, we can share what f.lux is for those who don’t have it yet. Explain what f.lux is.

Jarrod Warren
If you’ve got Night Shift on your phone, I’ll leave that on 24 hours a day. In fact, I’ve got mine set up from 2:59 AM to 3:00 AM, so there’s like a minute there when I’m sleeping that it goes back to the regular state because you can’t just keep it on all the time.

But if you ever pull up my – people pull up my phone all the time to look at a picture or look a document or whatever and they’re like “Why’s it so yellow?” I’m like, “Oh sorry, I’ve got a filter on that. Let me turn it off.”

But I use f.lux as well on my Window’s devices. You can do that on Mac also. But I’ve always got a filter on all of my devices. Now some people would say blue light is actually really good for you early in the mornings to get you awake. After what I went through, I don’t – I’m not trying to play that game at all. I’m like man, I’ll keep the filters on all day long. It doesn’t matter to me.

But if you’ve got those filters on your phone or on your computer, like f.lux or like Night Shift, that’s going to eliminate a ton of problematic blue light for you guys. If you just keep it on – like now if somebody gives me their phone and I have to watch a video for like a minute or two, like the blue light literally starts hurting my eyes. It’s kind of crazy how that works.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I’ve got to give a shout out to a recent sponsor, Phonetic Eyewear, who makes these glasses that reflect a portion of the blue light. I’m wearing them right now. They’re pretty cool.

I like it that it’s very subtle. It’s kind of hard to notice that the white difference unless you’re really looking closely and flipping them off and on, which is nice so that you’re getting some protection without feeling like the whole world looks weirdly yellow.

But so you’re – how yellow are we getting if I may ask with your f.lux? Is it like halfway on or 100% on?

Jarrod Warren
I’d say it’s halfway on because if you put it 100% on it would almost be red. It would be completely red. I have that as well. I will send you, Pete, if you want to link it up in show notes, I will send you how you can turn your iPhone completely red at night.

If I’m sitting, like right now we’re in a hotel, so it’s not ideal. We’ve got two bedrooms and a small, tiny kitchen that we’re – it’s just like oh my gosh. If you told me this five years ago we’d be living in this, I’d be freaking out. But we’re good. We’re totally good. My kids are all – I’ve got three daughters. They just all kind of climb into bed together.

But when I’m sitting in there with them because of course it’s kind of scary at night in a new place. They’re like, “We want you to sit in here,” so I’ll kind of get on my iPad at night, but I can triple tap my home screen and make my screen turn blood red at night.

That’s really cool because if you just have Night Shift on, even if you turn it all the way down to the lowest level at night – my recommendation to you guys would all be to be super disciplined and have a digital sunset. As soon as the sun goes down, you guys never look at a screen again.

But if you have to look at a screen to check a message or if you want to watch a movie with your wife in bed at night or whatever, I can send the notes to show you how to turn the color themes on your iPads/iPhones, whatever, I don’t know how to do it on Android, but turn it to blood red and you can turn it down really low. It’s really cool.

But during the day it’s about halfway on, so it’s more of like a yellow tint, like a washed out looking yellow tint. I’ve got that on 24 hours a day. I think there’s enough study out right now for people who are in older generations or when we get out to older generations that are showing that our eyesight is going to be gone from all this blue light.

The only time that I have blue light on my phone and I turn all of that off is first thing in the morning if I’m checking – I try not to check emails first thing when I wake up to start my day off in a reactive state, but if I want to do something fun, if I want to check social media whenever I wake up or I want to check ESPN on Saturday mornings for college football, I’ll actually turn blue light on in full effect, full effect because that will wake me up really fast.

But if you’ve got that on all the time, there are so many studies showing how it’s going to really decrease our eyesight over time and there’s – let’s face it, there’s not enough studies on these iPhones yet. They just came out in 2008. There’s not enough studies yet to really determine how all of this blue light is really going to affect our – or impact our vision. I’m telling you there’s going to be a lot of people needing glasses earlier in life because of all the blue light that’s coming through their screens.

Pete Mockaitis
Got you. Okay, you’ve got f.lux. You’ve got a link coming to us. Thank you. I will put that up with the show notes with regard to getting the super red very quickly. Then that’s part of the game is keeping the blue light from messing with your sleep. Awesome. What else?

Jarrod Warren
I’ve got my good friend James Swanwick out in California, who I’m always promoting his glasses because he’s got these blue light blocking glasses called Swannies.

I’ll tell you my first – when I first started diving into this way back in the day, I bought these literally seven dollar welder’s glasses off of Amazon to wear at night. My kids thought I looked like Bono. They kind of laughed. It’s kind of funny. But you’re in the comfort of your own home, so who cares.

But we’d be watching TV at night or we’d be doing whatever before all these blue light blocking technologies. I’m like, well, hey, I’ve got these amber looking glasses on that look ridiculous, but man, they sure are helping me wind down. I’d put those on about 90 minutes before I go to bed.

Now, fortunately, several companies have come out including James Swanwick. My friend Dave Asprey over at Bulletproof, they’ve got these glasses that will really help you wind down a lot faster. You’ve got to use a blue light blocker on your screens. You’ve got to use the blue light blocking glasses if you’re watching TV though because most TVs nowadays don’t have blue light blocking technology.

I think in the future that’s going to be – I mean if company like Apple, a trillion dollar company, has realized the need to put blue light blocking technology on every single device they make, the TV, Samsung, all these other – LG, all these other TVs, they’re going to come out with that soon enough. But for now you’ve got to wear those glasses. Luckily they look pretty stylish. They’re pretty good.

That would be number one is use a blue light blocker, whether it’s glasses on a TV that doesn’t have a blue light blocker or use it on your mobile devices like Apple that does.

Second thing is you’ve got to have a caffeine curfew. Caffeine is powerful. Your listeners are going to know if you’re being good at your job and you’re being great at what you do, let’s face it, most people nowadays, they’re chasing after some caffeine. It’s a nervous system stimulant, but if your nervous system is lit up at night, you can forget about high-quality sleep. You can forget about a great morning the next day.

Guys, set really a hardline unbreakable curfew that your body can remove that. Pete, I don’t know if you’ve ever done any research on this, but caffeine has a half-life of about six hours for your average person. That’s average. There’s going to be some people it has a half-life of like eight hours. That means eight hours after you drink a cup of coffee, half of the stimulant response is still going to be present there in your body.

I’ve seen people drinking coffee after dinners at night. I’ve seen people drinking coffee at five PM just because they’re like, “Man, I’m slammed. I don’t want to go home feeling so groggy. I’m going to kick a little caffeine before I go home.” It’s like ah, don’t do that. For the average person it’s a six hour half-life, so three hours after you have that cup of caffeine, you’re still going to be wired.

If you have that after a dinner at night with friends or at a restaurant or whatever, and you’re sitting there at 10 o’clock, 11 o’clock, 12 o’clock trying to go to sleep, you may have half of those caffeine remnants still in your body.

For me, I shut that thing off at 2 PM. I have no caffeine after 2 PM, none, whatsoever. I love coffee. I love the taste of coffee. Right now in Texas, it’s super hot, so I like iced coffee and nitro coffee and everything that’s cold. But after 2 PM, I’m not having any stimulants whatsoever. I’m trying to do things to wind down, which is more in the GABA supplements and things like that, which we can go into.

But just remember don’t have any – like have a caffeine curfew. Don’t have any caffeine after about 2 maybe 3 at the most PM and you’re going to get an awesome sleep.

Third thing is use high quality magnesium. Pete, especially for us as guys, we’re really deficient in magnesium. Just in our Western diet we don’t get it as much as we should. But magnesium – I had to do all this research because I didn’t know any of this – but it helps optimize circulation, blood pressure, balance of blood sugar. It helps relax your muscles if you get the right type.

It helps reduce pain if you work out and you’re a little sore from your morning workout or your evening workout. It’s going to help reduce all that. It’s going to calm down the nervous system, especially to keep your mind from just running crazy.

But magnesium is the number one mineral deficiency in our world today, especially in our Western culture as I keep coming back to. Getting your magnesium levels up, can almost instantly reduce your body’s stress load, improve the quality of sleep.

I use a product called Calm. You can go to my resources page as I mentioned earlier and Calm is on there. It’s not something you want to take a lot of because you’ll be on the toilet at night because magnesium makes your body flush out – again, it’s a muscle relaxer, so it makes your body flush out a lot of things. But it’s going to help you really get to sleep.

Then lastly, I want you guys to get your rooms blacked out. This is one that I was a little slow to come around on. If you read my friend Dave Asprey’s book called Head Strong. I had followed Dave Asprey for a long time, the creator of Bulletproof. He said he was coming out with a new book called Head Strong. I thought, “Man, okay, maybe I’ll get it.” I’m not really sure what else Dave can teach me. He blew my mind with all the things he came out with.

But one of the main things he talks about is mitochondrial function. Mitochondria is the powerhouse of your cells. It’s what energy comes from. It’s what good sleep comes from. It’s what really a good rested mind comes from. So many people are sleeping in very bright light situations.

Especially right now, I posted a picture just the other day on my Instagram page, Jarrod Warren Consulting, that showed one of those hangers that you hang pants on in a hotel room. I’ve got the hanger pinching the curtain rods because I’ve got the curtain rods all folded up just to where no light can get in whatsoever and I’ve got the hanger pinching those together. I think I said something like tips to a good night’s sleep or something. I listed those as one of them.

But having light sources of any type in your bedroom can seriously disrupt your sleep patterns. Again, I would have heard of that five years ago and gone, “Oh man, come on. Really? Just go to sleep.” But even using an eye mask. I use an eye mask every night. I use nose spacers now to get really good deep nostril air, which builds nitric oxide, which helps you sleep a lot deeper.

Here’s the big one. I may lose your listeners on this, but I learned this from my good friend Patrick McKeown, who wrote the book The Oxygen Advantage. I tape my mouth shut every single night with surgical paper tape. Every night. I’ve done this for almost two years.

Pete Mockaitis
I have heard Patrick McKeown recommend this before. He’s Irish, right?

Jarrod Warren
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you go to my—

Yeah, if you go to my podcast, I’ve got two episodes with Patrick McKeown. I had to have him on because I started understanding how when you tape your mouth shut at night, most of us are mouth breathers even during the day, so you can imagine when you go to sleep at night.

Pete Mockaitis
Mouth breather.

Jarrod Warren
But you lose almost a pound of water at night just through dehydration, breathing through your mouth and through your skin, and sweat. You’ve probably heard those mattress commercials where they’re like, “Hey, every eight years you need to change your mattress because it’s got like such and such pounds of skin and sweat and all kinds of stuff in it.” It just grows, right? But we lose over a pound of water every single night just by breathing out of our mouths whenever we fall asleep.

If you tape your mouth shut with paper surgical tape, which I’ve done for almost two years now. I use nose spaces because I broke my nose twice early in life playing basketball. I’ve got a severely deviated septum. I probably need to go get some surgery done on it. Like if I breathe in really hard, one nostril that completely collapses.

If you have any listeners out there that are experiencing that, you may want to get some nose spacers. I’ll hook that up – I’ll let you know, Pete, in your show notes how to hook that up as well. I’ve got nose spacers. I’ve got an eye mask on to completely black things out. I’ve got the mouth tape on.

Pete Mockaitis
You must look terrifying. It’s like who is this monster.

Jarrod Warren
Yeah. No, my wife has a field day. She’s like, “Oh my God.” She doesn’t prescribe to any of this. But she’s tired a lot during the day. I’m like you’ve got your phone in your face. You’re not doing anything – I’m a champion of thinking eventually she’s going to come around, but who knows.

But I do this every night. Again, your listeners may hear this and go, “Man, I’m not getting great sleep. I’m already stressed out. That’s so much workload to my plate of everything that I have to do.” I’m telling you, if you will structure your life in this way, you will have such a better life.

I mean literally now it’s to the point that I put that tape on my mouth at night and my brain automatically starts winding down no matter what I’ve done because it just knows man, it is time for sleep. I’ve got the nose spacers in because of the deviated septum. If you don’t have a broken nose in two places, like I do, maybe you don’t need to deal with that. But I’ll send the link for your show notes. Then the eye mask. Then I even sleep with ear plugs in.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah.

Jarrod Warren
Back when we had our first kid, I was running a brand new business here with a 50 person office and I was like – I told my wife I was like, “I’m sorry, I’ve got to get sleep.” She was such a champion to let me get sleep. But I put Hearos – they’re called Hearos ear plugs. I’ll send you the link for that as well. Hearos ear plugs, the highest decibel rated ear plugs.

I put those – literally if somebody broke into my house at night, I’d be in big trouble because I don’t know that I’d wake up at all. I put the Hearos ear plugs in, the night mask, the nose spacers and the tape over my mouth. I’m telling you man, I sleep like a rock. It’s awesome.

I get up. I’m so refreshed in the morning. Most days I don’t even need any caffeine. I don’t need anything to get me going. I splash a little water on my face and I’m ready to rock and roll with a very positive clear mindset. I’ve gone through all my sleep cycles and I am good to go.

Pete Mockaitis
Now I’m well convinced. We’ve had some previous sleep doctors on the show with regard to the sound blocking and the light blocking. I often end up with the ear plugs and sleep mask myself.

I want to dig into this mouth covering business. The advantage is that it kind of forces you to breathe through your nose and thusly you’ll lose less moisture. What’s this doing for me, this mouth taping?

Jarrod Warren
Well, again, you lose over a pound – the average person loses a pound of water every single night.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s why I like to weigh myself in the morning, Jarrod.

Jarrod Warren
Yeah, right. Make sure you urinate too.

Pete Mockaitis
I do.

Jarrod Warren
A lot of people weigh themselves before they urinate, that’s like two pounds there if you’re really trying to track your weight.

Basically, you can lose just through your mouth, and that’s not including your skin and your sweat, but you lose over a pound of water. Basically look at it like this, you’re dehydrated by less of a pound every single night just through your mouth.

If you tape that shut, first of all you’re going to retain that. Secondly, if you’re in a place with high allergies, which I never had allergies until we moved to Dallas about seven years ago. But it’s like – I don’t know. I feel like it’s the allergy capital of the world. Every year about three or four times a year, I was getting complete like absolute laryngitis. I couldn’t talk. I would have to cancel three or four days of my financial planning meetings.

I don’t have that anymore. Why? Because I don’t let all that cold air down in my throat. I’m retaining my hydration. I’m also making sure that I’m building more nitric oxide. If you look at nitric oxide and all the benefits that it has for your heart, for your lungs, for your brains.

Pete, I know you don’t promote this a lot, but if you’re looking at – as a guy, if you’re looking for more blood flow in the areas you really want blood flow as a guy, nitric oxide is going to do that, if you get what I’m saying there. There’s a lot of reasons to build nitric oxide.

Your nose builds that based on how we were created and how we were made. Your mouth doesn’t do that. Also, when you breathe through your mouth, you do deep chest breathing. If you’ve studied any breathing exercises from Wim Hof or my friend Mark Divine about filling your belly full of air, like there’s so much of a – gosh, where do we go with this.

80% of serotonin, which is the feel food chemical that your brain makes is actually produced in the gut.  A lot of that happens with you breathing into the gut, not breathing in through your mouth. When you breathe through your nose, you breathe through the gut. You fill up your belly, big deep belly breathe.

If you guys are trying to get relaxed out there, if you’re like “Man, I’m dealing with a super hard day,” just stop, sit back in your chair or I’ve got a standing desk here. Just lean back on a surface, just kind of relax for a second, sit down, breathe deeply through your nose. Science has shown that four deep breaths – four to six deep breaths for most people can significantly reduce blood pressure, stress, cortisol, all of those sort of things.

If you’re doing that all night long and you’re breathing through your nose and deep belly filling your air versus deep chest filling, which builds cortisol, just imagine how much more refreshed you’re going to wake up and be ready to take on the day and be awesome at your job.

Versus not doing that, waking up dehydrated, especially if you had a little bit to drink and you’ve even more dehydrated. You hadn’t drink enough water, which I was bad about for years. It’s just – the science, it’s just not arguable behind it as to how your body works and how you build nitric oxide, how you reduce dehydration and how you wake up more rested every day.

Tape your mouth shut at night guys. If you’ve got a deviated septum, like I do, use nose spacers. I’ll send you the link, Pete. And if you are in an area that has any light whatsoever, I’ll also send you the link to the best sleep blackout mask that I’ve ever tried in my life.

Pete Mockaitis
Yes, Jarrod, I would say link away. I’d love them all. I’d also love to the extent that you’ve got the journal articles and studies and research support, that’s great. Some of them I’m already convinced on, like yes, of course, it must be completely dark. I’m well on board. Others, it’s like – this mouth taping sounds a little weird, but I’m always down to try.

Jarrod Warren
It sounds nuts. It sounds nuts, man.

Pete Mockaitis
I’m always willing to experiment, Jarrod. I’m looking at the Amazon page right now for paper surgical tape. Am I looking at one inch wide? How wide do I want it?

Jarrod Warren
Yeah, one inch. 3M, 3M surgical paper tape.

Pete Mockaitis
Micropore.

Jarrod Warren
Micropore, yeah, that’s correct.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, I’m looking at it. You’ve got it.

Jarrod Warren
You want surgical micropore hypoallergenic so that it doesn’t cause any – the worst thing that I have in the morning, and if you call it the worst thing, it’s like it’s a little stickiness on my lips from the glue. But it’s hypoallergenic. It’s microporous, so it breathes a little bit but not enough for you to open up your lips at night.

The surgical paper tape, that’s what top surgeons use whenever they tape up people. Your skin has to breathe. It has to be porous. It’s all just a perfect recipe for you to put on your lips at night.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, it’s funny. I see it’s got some 743 reviews. I’m guessing a segment of them are people like you who are taping their mouths shut.

Jarrod Warren
Yeah. You hear that and you’re like 743 reviews, holy cow. How have I not been privy to this?

Pete Mockaitis
Well maybe there are probably like physicians like “This is great. After I draw blood I use this.” Then some are like, “I’ve been taping my mouth shut. My wife loves it.”

Jarrod Warren
It’s still weird to me. Two years in I’m literally – maybe I’m over two years now – two years in and I still put that on my mouth at night. I tell my wife – she’s talking to me at night and I’m like, “Okay, I’m putting my tape on.” She’s like, “Okay.” Two years in she’s used—

Pete Mockaitis
She’s like, “Finally. I wish you would have done that an hour ago, Jarrod.”

Jarrod Warren
Right. You should have put that on for the last three days. But it’s still weird. If you feel normal putting tape onto your mouth and putting ear plugs in and putting nose spacers in, if you feel normal doing that, like I’m more worried about you than not.

But that’s just – that’s the culture, the society that’s built for us today is that you hear that and you’re like, “Oh, that’s weird,” but do you want to be like the culture that we’ve built today? Do you want to be getting less than six hours of sleep at night when two generations ago before the light bulb was invented, we were getting over ten hours of sleep?

The depression, the SSRIs, the Adderall, the Ritalin, the caffeine. Just look at how our society operates today and say do you want to be like that or do you want to be a little off the beaten path and see what science has really come up with as far as what helps your body at night.

Pete Mockaitis
All right, well Jarrod tell me, anything else you want to make sure to mention before we shift gears and hear about some of your favorite things.

Jarrod Warren
I would encourage your listeners to shower at night instead of in the morning just because that’s going to help you get up faster without having to take the shower. I think so much of this is mental. If you feel like you have to get a shower in the morning like I did for so many years, then you’re going to feel like “I’m groggy. I’m walking into the shower. I’m wiping out my eyes in the shower. I’m going to stand there for a long time under the water.”

You just get a slow start to your day. Take the shower the night before and if you’re going to get in the water during the morning, take a cold shower. Turn the nozzle as cold as it can go. Your mitochondria in your body, your systems, everything wakes up.

The very first thing you guys want to do in the morning is to drink about 32 ounces of water to kick start your adrenals and kick start your system.

I would encourage you guys – Pete, I know we’re rushing through this kind of fast here at the end, but I would encourage you guys to do a little bit of sea salt, Himalayan pink sea salt and a little bit of lemon squeeze, like lemon juice is fine if you don’t have a natural lemon, but that’s going to help it to be more – it’s going to help wake up your adrenals in the morning to where you’ve got a little bit of salt, a little bit of lemon.

You’re crushing 32 ounces of water in the morning right when you wake up because you’re so dehydrated in the morning.

Then just make sure that you guys aren’t snoozing for 14 years like I did to where you start your day off so reactionary.

We haven’t even talked about alcohol, but I would say, I mentioned having a caffeine curfew in the evening, make sure you guys have an alcohol curfew for those of you who drink about three hours before you go to sleep because the REM sleep – and we don’t have time to get into this right no.

But the REM sleep and the deep sleep, the REM and the deep, as you’re cycling back and forth through those, you can’t cycle though those at night to get a super deep sleep if you’ve got alcohol in your system more than three hours before you go to sleep. That would be another – I guess, reverting back to the evening here – that would be another thing that I would tell you guys.

But just make sure you’re aware of what you eat and drink the night before including junk food, high carbs, alcohol, all of that before sleep, you’re going to – it’s going to be really hard for you to get in deep sleep if you’re doing that.

Pete Mockaitis
Great, thank you. Now could you share with us a favorite quote?

Jarrod Warren
Oh man, I have so many. I think my favorite quote is by Abraham Lincoln. I’m a big historical – like in fact this weekend, we’re going out to our farmhouse. I can trace my fatherhood all the way back to the late 1600s. It’s like father, father, father, father, father, father, all the way down to me. I’ve got these three girls and I’m an only child. I’m like, “Holy cow, it’s all going to end. It’s all going to end right here.”

But the Presidential, like the American Revolution, all of that is really – I don’t know why, it just kind of gets me. It’s just so important to me.

But my favorite quote I would think is by Abraham Lincoln. It says – I hope I don’t butcher this – but it says “In the end, it’s not the years in your life that matter, but the life in your years.” He was even smart enough back then to realize man, it’s not how long you live, it’s how many years in every year you actually live. I think that’s what I’m striving for nowadays is am I really living every single day.

A lot of the stuff you’ve heard on this podcast, a lot of the stuff in my evening/morning routine, it’s so that I can freaking live every day and be so different than I was before when I was dying. I know a lot of your listeners are going to resonate with this where they feel like they are just dying every day, but they’re trying so hard to grind it out, that doesn’t work.

It’s not the years in your life that matter, but the life in your years. If you’re not doing a lot of the stuff we talked about today, you’re not going to have a lot of the life in your years.

Pete Mockaitis
Got you, thank you. How about a favorite book?

Jarrod Warren
It would have to be With Winning in Mind by Lanny Bassham. If you guys haven’t read With Winning in Mind – Lanny Bassham is a mental strategy coach that coaches a lot of golf pros, a lot of Olympic athletes. If you think about the Olympics and you think about golf, what two sports really need more mental management than that? He runs a mental management clinic.

His book With Winning in Mind. He’s got a couple different books out actually. His son, Troy, has a book – Troy Bassham – has a book called Attainment. It’s like the 12 steps toward peak performance. Of course, that’s what my podcast is all about, so I’m all about that.

But With Winning in Mind by Lanny Bassham is one of my favorite books on the planet because it talks so much about how the brain deals with what we deal with every day and how you can really retrain that for being better at what you do each day.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. How about a favorite tool, something that helps you be awesome at your job?

Jarrod Warren
Man, the tool would be what I mentioned before. It’s going to be the sleep app. If you’re not tracking your sleep at night and if you don’t have a good morning and evening routine, then you guys are setting yourself up for failure every day.

Now, there may be some people, like I did for so many years, who could thrive without having that, but I would argue eventually you’re going to hit a brick wall. Eventually you’re going to be a shell of the person that you could have been. Don’t let that happen. Make sure you’re tracking your sleep.

Make sure you understand that 80% of an incredible day actually starts in the PM by getting all the blue light out of our face and using a sleep tracker at night. I actually use now the Oura ring. If your listeners are familiar with the O-U-R-A, the Oura ring.

It actually tracks my sleep in a little bit of a better way by not just tracking what time I went to bed and what time I got up, but actually tracking my sleep cycles because if you’re in a bed with a wife or a partner like I am, you can’t – the sleep cycle app, you can actually lay that on your mattress. If she’s moving around or if she’s doing something – it doesn’t know when I’m moving or not. With that device on your finger, it’s actually a lot better. That would be my tool.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah. How about a favorite habit?

Jarrod Warren
Man, this is a tough one and this is one that if your listeners hear this, I would love some accountability on. It’s spending at least one hour a week in silence and deep thought while note taking.

I don’t know why – I have no idea with everything that I’ve learned why this has been so hard for me to get my mind around, but blocking off at least one hour – or not at least, but blocking off one hour on my calendar to where I sit in silence, I sit in deep thought and I journal. It’s been really hard – probably over the last six weeks I’ve been better at it then I have ever been in my life. I hope to continue that.

But if your listeners are like I am where they’re just kind of go, go, go and they can’t calm the mind and they’re busy all the time, this is probably one of the most important habits you guys can lock in.

Because what do people say? They say if you have a few minutes each week, you should meditate and spend time in silence and really calm the mind. If you feel like you don’t have time to mediate and calm the mind, if you feel like, “Man, I don’t have that time. I’ve got to be doing other things,” then you probably need two or three times that time for meditation because you’ve really got a real issue going on there.

But that would be one hour a week in silence and deep thought with note taking. I would really encourage your listeners to do that. That’s something I’m working on. I’ve gotten a lot better at, but for hard charging performers that want to be excellent at what they do each day, it’s really hard to just stop and be in silence, but I think it’s going to be the biggest game changer for people that really over time master that.

Pete Mockaitis
Is there a particular nugget you share that seems to connect and resonate and gets quoted back to you frequently?

Jarrod Warren
It’s just to be present.

Pete Mockaitis
Jarrod, if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Jarrod Warren
Oh man, thanks so much. My website is Success101Podcast.com. The resources page I’ve mentioned a couple of times is Success101Podcast.com/Resources.

If you guys want my book, which I don’t put out on Amazon, I don’t put out anywhere because I thought originally I was just going to give it out to clients and advisors and things like that, but it’s become – it’s been a blessing. It’s become really popular. It’s called From Success to Significance. I’m giving away the e-version of that right now.

If you just go to Success101Podcast.com/Book and you select the e-version, the e-book version and put “freesuccess101”, you’ll get a code to download that for free or if you want the paperback version, just enter Success 101 and you will just pay the shipping cost in the US.

It’s kind of a workbook that I developed, where people could go through and really understand what creating a vision, creating goals, creating a more positive mindset looks like. I’ve gotten – I’ve been so fulfilled by that because I’ve gotten such good feedback. But that’s where people can find me.

On Instagram I’m under Jarrod Warren Consulting. I’m on Facebook under Jarrod Warren as well. I’m kind of out there where you can find me. But it’s all pointing back toward sharpening ourselves, being at better at what we do each day by eliminating stress, distractions and really all the stuff we talked about with morning and evening routines.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Do you have a final challenge or call to action you’d issue to folks seeking to be awesome at their jobs?

Jarrod Warren
Man, I think I’ve already said it. I think it’s the morning and evening routines. I know that sounds so boring and ho hum and whatever and I would have felt that years ago, like, “Okay, yeah, I’ll do that. But what’s the real secret.” I think that’s it.

I think it’s really understanding that you’ve got to quiet your mind at the end of the day. You’ve got to make sure that you’re getting in bed on time. You’ve got to make sure that you understand in your mind that 80% or more of an incredible morning is only going to become – is only going to come whenever you focus on the PM and just making sure that you’re living a very essentialism or minimalistic type lifestyle, where we just get rid of all the noise.

I’ve always been such a big podcast fan and news fan and reading fan. Information is power. Information is power was such a common phrase years and years and years ago, like 30 – 40 – 50 years ago when there wasn’t a lot of information. Now we’ve got so much information that we almost have to say information can be noise and really just cutting out some of that is helpful.

I hope your listeners take a lot away from Success 101, which the Success 101 podcast is just how do we get back to the grassroots of success. It’s not making tons of money. It’s not being super influential. It’s how do we get back to all the stuff we talked about today toward the 101 of success. I think we’ve missed a lot of that in our society and I hope we get back to it.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, Jarrod, thank you so much for sharing the goods. This was a whole lot of fun and I wish you tons of luck and a wondrous sleep night after night.

Jarrod Warren
Pete, thanks so much for having me here. It’s such a blessing. I just want to affirm you for just helping people be better at what they do day in and day out through your podcast and all the guests that you have on and all the episodes that you’ve had. What an incredible time we live in today where you can tune in and listen to podcasts like yours and mine and get so much information. I just really hope your listeners take a lot away from that.

Pete Mockaitis
Thank you.