KF #20. Interpersonal Savvy Archives - How to be Awesome at Your Job

Pete Mockaitis
Ravi, welcome!

Ravi Rajani
You nailed the name. You nailed it.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I practiced.

Ravi Rajani
First, there wasn’t even, like, “Cut. We’re going to have to run that back.” You nailed it. And because of that, I’m feeling good, I’m feeling great.

Pete Mockaitis
Thank you. Well, maybe that’s our first communication habit, perhaps, for limitless influence right there, say people’s names right.

Ravi Rajani
Yes.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I’m excited to dig into your wisdom about relationships, the communication, and influence. So could you kick us off with a particularly surprising and fascinating discovery you’ve made about us humans and communication over the course of your career studying this stuff?

Ravi Rajani
The one that rings the most true for me right now is us humans spend a lot of time trying to be interesting versus leading with trying to be interested in the human being opposite us.

Now, for credit, Dale Carnegie said something along the lines of, to be interesting, be interested. And I do find that the more conversations I have with others, especially in the noisy world we live in today, which can create a lack of clarity and all of the side effects that manifest as a result of that, we can be busy, we can be running from meeting to meeting. And as a result, we lack presence.

And when we lack presence, we can often revert to, “Okay, reactive behavior.” And the way I look at reactive behavior is pulled from the spiritual wisdom of Kabbalah, which is any behavior that is grounded in lack, scarcity, or fear. So, me, meeting you, and leading with my accolades, awards, and credentials would be a form of reactive behavior. And that’s me trying to be interesting in the hope you will find me interesting.

But, actually, what I really should lead with is asking impactful, meaningful, and genuine questions. For me, I found that to be one of the most impactful ways to begin building rapport and meaningful relationship. But what about you, because you’ve had a lot of people on this show? What have you seen?

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, well, I think that’s a really fun and solid one right there. And I liked the part you said about trying to be interesting. The word trying, just sort of the effort level required because it’s, in some ways, it’s much simpler to make eye contact, ask some questions, as opposed to, “Oh, yes, I was studying for my sommelier exam.” It’s like, “Oh, that sounds hard to, like, do stuff to be interesting.” Whereas if you’re just interested in people, then that’ll get the job done easier and feel better to them.

Ravi Rajani
Right. I mean, isn’t it hard to figure out what somebody cares about if you are dominating a conversation, doing all the talking?

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, sure.

Ravi Rajani
And, really, when we figure out what somebody cares about in this season of their life, that builds a beautiful foundation for a meaningful business relationship, and in life as well. But, yes, my friend, I subscribe to what you’re saying. I subscribe to what you’re saying.

Pete Mockaitis
Lovely. Well, so you got this book, Relationship Currency, what’s the big idea here?

Ravi Rajani
Well, the big idea is that, in a world obsessed with automation without intention, conversations that lack connection, and also growth without introspection, leaders, teams, entrepreneurs, and professionals are really engaging in short-term behavior that kills our long-term reputation.

And what I believe, more than ever before, is what we’re craving is human connection. We’re craving human connection, and we’re craving real relationships grounded in trust. And this book teaches five habits which will help people communicate in a way that builds trust in a conversation and earns meaningful relationship so they can receive more of what they desire in the long term.

Pete Mockaitis
That sounds handy. Tell us, what are a few super common short-term behaviors that kill long-term relationships that you see all the time?

Ravi Rajani
Well, tell me, I’m curious, from your perspective, in the arena of business, what is your pet peeve when it comes to conversations which you know are grounded in, let’s go back to the concept of reactive behavior, lack, scarcity, fear, short-termism?

Pete Mockaitis
Well, the first thing that comes to mind for pet peeve and business conversations is customer service things, in terms of, if I’m making a call to a company because I have a need, then it’s pretty drastic, right?

Like, I couldn’t ask the AI chat bots. I couldn’t find it on your website. I even used the Google and site colon website name. I mean, I need to talk to a real human who knows something about the thing by the time I call. And yet, they’re going to every length possible to push me away from having a real human who knows the stuff, talk to the thing.

It seems frequently. And, of course, some businesses do this excellently, but that was my first thought. Like, I saw that I had a package that couldn’t be delivered because they had to have a signature. I saw the email just before we got here, I was like, “Oh, boy, that’s going to be a process.” It’s, like, I think that’s probably my top pet peeve is that.

Well, if you talk about short term behavior, I guess it’s a matter of the organization, because I’ve worked with call centers before. The organization is looking to minimize costs as much as possible in terms of, like, dealing with all those customers and their issues. And so, yeah, the biggest pet peeve is customer service interactions with businesses.

Ravi Rajani
Isn’t it funny that when a company is trying to reduce costs, they forget at what cost? And it’s funny, you know, Pete, I had this experience just recently. So, I bought some electrolytes and amino acid supplements from a company here in the UK six months ago. And I recently realized, I was like, “I never received that package, yet they said it was delivered.”

So I dropped them an email, thinking that, “Nothing’s really going to happen here, but let’s see.” And it was incredible, the service. A human on the other end, emailing me fast, saying, “Hey, we want to make this right. This didn’t work out. Fill in this form really quickly, we’ve done most of it for you. We’ll get one out to you.”

Literally, I filled that form out two days ago and the supplements arrived today. And they’re like, “We’re really sorry for your inconvenience.” I’m now a customer for life. But I went into that being skeptical about if I would be a customer again. Within 48 hours, I’m now a customer for life.

And it’s so funny how these imperfect moments are actually gifts and opportunities for connection. Yet, as a society, we run away from imperfection. But actually, to be perfect would be denying our humanity. It’s just a funny world we live in.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s good. And, well, now I’m thinking about business in terms of, if you look at, in the universe of sales and marketing, folks can spend great sums to shout out to the universe, “Hey, somebody, maybe, please pay attention to us,” and they’re delighted if, I don’t know, one in a thousand people who hear an ad, you know, click or take some sort of an action.

And then, yet when you’re actually in there, it’s like, “Here I am. I showed up. I gave you money. I could be delighted and won over forever.” It’s like, “Nah.”

Ravi Rajani 
Right? The best way to explain it, as I see it through my lens, is nightclubs. Back in the day, nightclubs were a thing. And you would see certain nightclubs, the queues would be, it would feel like a mile long. You’d look at it and you’d go, “Damn, Pete, that looks awesome.” You wait in the queue for one hour.

Pete Mockaitis
“It must be cool if there’s a line.”

Ravi Rajani
It must be cool. It must be great. There’s a line, it must be good. One hour goes by, “Oh, it’s cold outside. But you know what? It’s going to be worth it.” Two hours goes by, you get to the front, and you’re like, “Oh, yes, I’m about to go in,” and you get there, it’s empty. The service is subpar. The drinks are awful. You see what I mean?

And I feel like we live in a world where we are prioritizing width over depth. We really are. And a big part of this book is coming back to a world where we prioritize depth.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, and I think that example is fun with regard to, you said there’s a line and then you get in and it’s empty, you’re like, “Oh, wait,” because then you know, and I remember there was a bar when I went to college, University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, there was a bar that pulled this stunt all the time.

And it just made me hate them because as soon as you enter, it’s like, “Oh, I guess I was lied to. You were not actually at capacity. You just wanted to deceive us, you know, to create an illusion.”

And I think that it’s quite common to have just little…It seems like, in marketing, for example, we’re not outright lied to, but we’re misled. It’s like, “Okay, technically your AI software product can sort of, kind of, do the thing that you say it can, but, really, it doesn’t actually save any time for the purpose for which you’re marketing it in a real-world scenario.”

So I feel, like, that’s the case with a lot of things, it’s like, “I’m not getting a full-blown lie. Like, being told yes when it’s really no. But there’s key omissions that allow me…” there’s probably a great word for this. Is it dissemble? I don’t remember the word. To be led, to be very deliberately said a number of things that lead me to infer that which you want me to infer, though you know it is not entirely true. There’s got to be a word for that.

Ravi Rajani
There must be. I mean, I don’t have one for it, but what is coming up, Pete?

Pete Mockaitis
But it ain’t honest. It ain’t honest, it ain’t candid, it doesn’t make me trust.

Ravi Rajani
Well, the key word there, like you said, trust. So how I see it, is trust, yes, is a buzzword overused by politicians, business leaders, companies, marketers, the list goes on.

But I’ve been really thinking for some time about, “How does one establish trust?” And when I tapped into my intuition, my story, and my experiences, I came up with something called the three Cs, the three C’s of trust. And when we earn that, we’re to earn trust, so the first C is connection. The second C is character. The third C is competence. So let’s take a look at each of them.

So connection, for me, is the emotional glue that forges a bond between two human beings. Then you have character, which is the invisible values which travel with your energy, verbal communication, and nonverbal communication. And then, we have competence, which is one’s ability to signal their ability to solve somebody’s problem and, ultimately, increase or decrease their credibility stock.

And we live in a world where, “Okay, I’m going to connect with you. I’m going to pitch you the right story.” “Great, I’m bought in.” But now, like you said in your example, I haven’t really received what I paid for, per se. So, actually, I don’t believe you have a character of integrity. Done.

Now, even if you connect with somebody, and they can solve your problem, but they have a shady character, are you going to be in business with them for long? No. Even if you connect with somebody and they’ve got great character, but they’re just likable, but they can’t solve your problem, that’s only going to get you so far. I mean, you could play this in several ways, but you see where I’m going. You really need all three singing and dancing at the same time.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, I like that a lot. It’s catchy, easy to remember, and it’s in order. It was like, first, “I like this guy.” Second, it was like, “Okay, it seems like they’re being straight and direct and following through, just like the way they said they would. And sure enough, they’re getting it done nicely. I like what I see in terms of the product service delivered on the other side. That’s cool.” So you’ve also got five communication habits. Could you run us through these?

Ravi Rajani
Yes, so habit one is transform your story. Habit two is ask conscious questions. Habit three is unearth your charisma. Habit four is tell stories that inspire change. And habit five is become the trusted guide.

Pete Mockaitis
I love this. Now, can you tell me, if I develop and do these five things well, what will happen for me? What kinds of results? Could you share a cool story to illustrate?

Ravi Rajani
Magical things, Pete. But the way I see it is, when one is able to embody these five habits, and by the way, it doesn’t happen overnight. Unfortunately, there are no shortcuts, magic bullets, quick fixes. This is a process where you ascend the competence ladder until you get to unconscious competence.

But really, the outcome of this is, once again, being able to build a meaningful relationship through communicating for trust, and the outcome being, yes, increased revenue, yes, leadership growth, but a culture of trust and an environment where people actually want to belong, which is important.

Pete Mockaitis
That sounds good. Well, can I hear a story of someone who did just that, that they saw a transformation when they started doing this stuff?

Ravi Rajani
Okay, let’s talk about a specific transformation that happened to me. Let’s talk about this, okay? So, this, by the way, connects to habit number three, which is unearth your charisma. But let’s start with this.

So I believe that we have charisma all wrong in society. I believe I had charisma all wrong for many, many years because I used to think, Pete, it was about receiving accolades, awards, being the smoothest talker, being in the spotlight, etc.

Now, I’ve got to thank my younger self for doing the best he could with the awareness that he had at the time, but how I look at it now is an innate superpower that allows somebody to feel significant in our presence, meaning communicating in the way that makes somebody feel like they matter.

And inside of the book, something I talk about is how imperfection equals connection and how it can break down barriers. So get this, I can’t remember the exact year, but I have a feeling it was like summer ‘22, summer 2023.

But, anyway, I’m on a Zoom call with the COO of a SaaS company headquartered in Singapore. Now, he had heard me speak, you know, a couple of months back, Pete. So, he has some context on me. I had very little context on him.

So we kicked off the call. We get the corporate niceties out of the way. And I see a picture in his background, and I thought, “Okay, what a beautiful opportunity to build rapport.” So I say, “Oh, hey, man, that picture over there, oh, that’s an incredible picture of your daughters over there. How old are they?”

Thought nothing of it. I hear a pause. And he’s confused. He looks back and he looks at me. He looks back again, but this time his head is stuck looking at the wall and I’m thinking, “Is this dude going to turn around?” And he slowly turns his head around, but this time he’s smiling like a Cheshire cat, and he says, “Ravi, that’s not my daughter. That’s my wife.”

Okay. So I’m squirming, right? I’m squirming like a looney tune, and I’m thinking, “I’ve blown this. This sucks, oh, my gosh. That’s all folks,” right? That sort of energy. The best thing happened. It instantly humanized the conversation. It instantly broke down barriers, and that conversation went on for an hour long, an hour plus long. And we really deeply connected.
And here’s what happened at the end. He said, “Hey, I’d love for you to come in and deliver a storytelling workshop for our sales and customer success team. Are we doing it?” I said, “Yeah, let’s do it.” And here’s the thing, here’s what I find, Pete, is so much of the time through life, we try and deflect imperfect moments, cover them up, already shy away from owning our mistakes.

And I’m finding, more so than ever before, that when you feel or see a mistake appearing, pause, smile, and say, “This is a gift. This is a gift,” and use that imperfect moment as an opportunity to showcase your humanity, because, otherwise, we can just end up being corporate robots.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, that’s well said because it feels so rare that someone, especially if you’re proactive, in terms of, like, if they let you know about the mistake in advance, like, “Hey, just so you know, unfortunately, we made this mistake. We’re so sorry. Here’s how we’re going to fix it.” You’re almost taken aback, like, “Oh, okay. Well, understood. Thanks for letting me know.”

And then it’s like, “All right, I know this person is not trying to hide something.” It’s a good feeling. So, lovely. I hear you that that is a great trust builder and we can feel better about mistakes as a result, as they come about. Well, could you then share with us a couple of your top tips or perspectives for putting these five habits into practice?

Ravi Rajani
Yeah, you know, each habit has a practice. And the idea is, when you engage in the practice, you’re engaging in a new behavior, which substitutes an existing behavior. And when you engage in that behavior long enough, what will happen, a proportion of those behaviors will turn into habits, hopefully positive habits, which point towards the North Star that you care about in this season of your life.

Now, one of the most popular practices sits inside of habit two. So habit two is about asking conscious questions, Pete. And, by the way, when I say conscious, what I’m talking about is asking questions that are grounded in positive intentionality.

Now, when I say positive intentionality, there’s a difference, Pete, between me asking you a question because I’m secretly trying to lead you to a product or service that benefits my bank balance at the expense of yours, versus asking you a question that’s designed to actually get to the heart of your truth. So that’s really what we’re talking about here.

Now, there are different types of conscious questions that I teach, but one of them I’d love to share now is empathetic questions. Now, empathy, a bit of a buzzword, let’s be real, so let’s define it. How I see it is being interested in what somebody is emotionally invested in, in this season of their life, aka, as we said at the top of the show, caring about what somebody else cares about.

How do we show that? Because I can tell you, Pete, “My friend, I care about you. I care about what you care about.” And it’s like, “Okay, cool, show me.” How do you show somebody without shoving it down their throat? Well, I’d like to introduce you to what I call the what, feel, who method.

So picture this. Okay, you’re a leader. You’re busy. It’s a noisy world. Meeting to meeting to meeting and you’re late for a follow-up meeting with a new team member. You walk into the room, you slam the door, you’ve got a sandwich in your mouth and you say the following words, you say, “Ah, hey, Pete, how are you?”

Harmless, but here’s my truth, they’re lazy. That’s lazy. It’s unintentional. It’s unintentional and it’s lazy. What we’re looking to do is build depth and intimacy in a relationship. So the what, feel, who method. Instead, what I could say is, “Pete, the last time we spoke, you mentioned that you and your wife were moving home, but you were feeling super stressed because your daughter was feeling really unhappy about the change. How has she settled in?”

All of a sudden, you are sharing a story with me about how things are in your personal life. I’m showing you that I care about what you care about by remembering what’s important to you in this season of your life, moving home, how you felt about it, stressed, and who it’s impacting, your daughter. I’m showing you that I care, that I have empathy without shoving it down your throat.

Now, that is, for me, anyway, so much more potent and powerful than, “Hey, how are you?”

Pete Mockaitis
Well, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that’s good. And it’s interesting how it’s easy to do and it’s easy not to do exactly this, because you’ve heard that’s what’s going on in someone’s life, and yet, in the course of living our own lives, when we re-encounter that person, it just doesn’t seem that top of mind.

But it’s quite possible to, I don’t know, take notes, have a pause before you begin the conversations, to say, “What is probably important to this person right now in the background?” It’s like, “Oh, of course. Well, they had that big date, you know? Their kid went away to college.”

And so it’s, like, it takes, for me at least, a stop-and-prompt-myself moment to actually execute that because I have found myself in so many conversations, where someone brings up the thing that they brought about their life that they had brought up previously. It was like, “Oh, jeez. Duh, I should have asked you about that.” So, yeah, it’s easy to do, it’s easy not to do.

Ravi Rajani
It is. My question to somebody who’s feeling that way is, “If it was working for you, you wouldn’t still be listening. You wouldn’t still be listening to this part of the show.” So, I often feel there can be resistance around trying something new.

And here’s what I would say to the listener is, look, this is my truth. It doesn’t have to be your truth, but try it on for size.

Pete Mockaitis
Do you get pushback when you suggest people do this? Because it sounds like, “Duh, of course, we should all do this, but we just forget. So maybe be conscientious and thoughtful about not forgetting.” But are you telling me people say, “Oh, Ravi, I could never do that.” Like, what’s that resistance sound like?

Ravi Rajani
Well, the resistance doesn’t sound like that. It’s a lot more subtle, I find. And it’s not necessarily related to this specific practice and habit, but, in general, what I find is when the cost of making change outweighs the cost of just staying as is, aka, the status quo, people are happy to sit in the status quo. So when you introduce something new that challenges their way of doing things, their viewpoint of the world and belief, you can often get resistance, right?

And it could be through disengagement in a workshop, you know, a corporate workshop where somebody may not have actually paid out of their own wallet to be there, right? Their leader’s paid, they’re getting told, “You should come in here.” They’re like, “Ah, I don’t want to listen to this. I don’t want to try this,” or whatever it could be, “I don’t want to try something new.”

And really, what we’re, I believe, anyway, that we’re selling, whether you’re selling a product, a service, an idea, or a vision, you’re actually selling change. You’re asking somebody to depart from a current set of behaviors and adopt new ones. And that is hard. If change were easy, my friend, everybody would stick to their New Year’s resolutions.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Thank you. Well, I’ve also got to hear, you’ve got a tip for pitching yourself in 12 seconds. What’s the story here?

Ravi Rajani
Oh, gosh, where did you get that? Where did you get that? That’s brilliant! Where did you get that from? Is that AI?

Pete Mockaitis
We stalked you for hours. We stalked you for hours before we have this conversation.

Ravi Rajani
Did AI stalk me or something? Because that’s brilliant.

Pete Mockaitis
No, human beings.

Ravi Rajani
Wow, I like that.

Pete Mockaitis
Shout out to my team, yeah.

Ravi Rajani
Kudos. Kudos to the team. Okay, cool. So there’s something I don’t even talk about in the book, but it’s something called the magnetic message. And some of you will be thinking, “What are you talking about?” Let’s take it back to when Steve Jobs first released the iPod.

Now, he didn’t come out on stage and pitch the features and the functionality of the product. No. He did something different. He said something along the lines of, it’s like having a thousand songs in your pocket, “Rah! Rah!” That’s the crowd going wild, right? And it became viral worthy. I don’t even know if virality was a thing there, but if it was, he would have gone viral.

Now, that’s a metaphor. What I’m talking about with the magnetic message is something which embodies that energy, but through an analogy. So, a couple of years back, I was working with a SaaS company in the US, and for one area of their business, they worked with product leaders. And if I had to describe what they help them with in one word, it would be innovation.

But they can’t go to events, well, they can if they want to, I wouldn’t suggest it, but they can’t really go to events and say, “Well, we help product leaders with innovation,” right?

Or, we can’t say, “Well, on this one fine day in 2006, our founder…” like you can’t lead with a story. We need to earn the opportunity to share a story. So how do we do that? By sharing a 12-second magnetic message, aka, an analogy.

And one that I came up with for this team is, “So, you know how Blockbuster struggled to innovate and just allowed Netflix to crush them? Well, what we do is help product leaders prevent their company from becoming the next Blockbuster.”

Pete Mockaitis
I love that Blockbuster example because it’s really emotionally resonant and reminds me of Vince Gilligan, who’s my favorite show is “Breaking Bad.” He’s got these high-concept pitches, like, “Breaking Bad” is, “I’m going to take Mr. Chips and turn him into Scarface.” Or, “Pluribus is the most miserable person on earth must save the world from happiness.” And it just makes you go, “Huh, what? I got to know all about that.”

Ravi Rajani
Isn’t that brilliant? Like, that’s something that punchy, because you are really, what you’re trying to do is earn the following question, “Tell me more.” You know, I worked with a hotel, a large hotel group last year, and they were thinking about how can they pitch their wedding venues.

And one thing that we came up with was comparing it to flying on a first-class flight and how everything is taken care of so you can focus on the journey, really, and the thing that really matters the most. And we created an analogy around that, that’s sticky. It’s universal. It hits.

And, really, with that Blockbuster analogy, what it’s really grounded in is something which every human being can relate to, which is a fear of being left behind. Nobody wanted to be left behind in the tribe back in the day, right? So a fear of being left behind, a lack of evolution, we can all relate to that. So. for me, anyway, that’s how I look at it, often entering a conversation with something like that.

Pete Mockaitis
You’re right. It’s like… It’s the difference between conceptual, theoretical, talking about something versus, “Oh, yeah, I understand.” It’s, like, we’re connecting to stuff that’s already nicely lodged in our brains and has some emotion. Like a product manager is like, “I don’t want to be like Blockbuster,” you know, or, it’s like, “Oh, I remember Mr. Chips and I remember Scarface, and, whoa, that’d be a crazy transformation,” right?

So, we’re sort of latching onto some embedded emotional associations and language that’s really meaningful. Whereas, sometimes, when I see kind of corporate speak is sort of like, “Well, we provide a diverse array of advisory services for the mid-tier business leaders.” It’s like, “Huh?” As opposed to, you know, “We make sure you don’t run out of cash.” It’s like, “Oh, yeah, we’re worried about that. That sounds helpful. Tell me more.”

Ravi Rajani
I hear you, my friend. And I also feel as though there is a journey with that. Often, we have to start with the corporate spiel to get to realize this is not connecting to eventually get to something which is a little bit spicier. So what else you got up your sleeve, because that was a good question? What else you got up your sleeve? I’m curious now.

Pete Mockaitis
Certainly. I would like to hear about your thoughts on compliments and awkwardness.

Ravi Rajani
I love how you say awkwardness, okay? Here’s how I see it. So, interestingly, there’s a dude called Professor Norihiro Sadato. And in his piece of research, he found that when we receive a compliment, it actually activates the same part of our brain that lights up when we receive a financial reward. Cool, huh?

So compliments are great. Compliments work, but don’t be Mr. Creepy and start giving too many compliments, inauthentic compliments, inappropriate compliments, and say, “Yeah, Ravi told me to do it.” Don’t weaponize what I’m about to share. Okay, disclaimer.

So I could say to Pete, “Great presentation. Good presentation.” Great intention, but the delivery lacks, once again, intimacy and depth. Or, I could say, “Pete, that was one of the most impactful presentations I’ve heard at this trade show, literally all day.”

“In the first three minutes, when you shared that personal story about imposter syndrome as a new CEO and how you overcame it, wow, that was super powerful. And you know what, funny enough, you’ve actually got me thinking about how to use more personal stories in my own presentations. Thank you for that.”

So, the difference there is what I called the ASI framework. The second compliment had authenticity, specificity and impact. Authenticity, what I’m talking about here is leading with a genuinely positive observation. S is specificity, so avoid being generic. And I is impact, sharing how this specific moment has impacted you personally.

Pete Mockaitis
Absolutely. That’s all the difference between great speech and the real deal. That’s good. All right. Well, tell me, Ravi, anything else you want to make sure to mention before we hear about some of your favorite things?

Ravi Rajani
I’m very excited about the audio book of this book. I don’t know why I just felt like saying that. But anyway, hit me with these questions. You’ve asked incredible questions today. So I’m looking forward to some curve balls.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, sure. Well, it’s pretty straightforward. Tell me about a favorite quote, something you find inspiring.

Ravi Rajani
Okay, so are you a Christopher Nolan fan? Batman? I mean, Batman?

Pete Mockaitis
Absolutely. Among the best. Among the best.

Ravi Rajani 
Incredible. Incredible. So, Bruce, aka Christian Bale, is on his jet with his butler, Alfred, and he says, “People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy. And I can’t do that as Bruce Wayne. As a man, I’m flesh, I’m blood, I can be ignored, I can be destroyed, but as a symbol, as a symbol, I can be everlasting.”

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite book?

Ravi Rajani
Let me give you one which I haven’t finished yet, but Essentialism by Greg McKeown. So love the idea of less is better.

Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite tool?

Ravi Rajani
I’ve recently been digging deeper into Claude AI and I’m liking it.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite habit?

Ravi Rajani
Telling stories that inspire change, aka, habit four inside of the book.

Pete Mockaitis
And is there a key nugget you share that folks really connect and resonate with and they end up quoting back to you often or retweeting, etc?

Ravi Rajani
One I’m hearing recently is, I’ve heard recently, was “The depth of your questions dictates the depth of your relationships.”

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Ravi Rajani
Where I hang out the most right now is LinkedIn. So what I’d love to know is, if you are listening to this right now, drop me a DM and let me know what impacted you the most in this episode. I’d love to know.

Pete Mockaitis
And do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks looking to be awesome at their jobs?

Ravi Rajani
Well, if you are looking to be awesome at your job, I’m biased, but I will say learning how to communicate with influence should be high on your priority list.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Ravi, thank you.

Ravi Rajani
Thank you, my friend.

Pete Mockaitis
Mike, welcome!

Mike Litton
Thanks, bud. Great to be here.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, yes, it is. I am excited to be chatting questions, something I know you’re deeply passionate about. Could you maybe kick us off with a story of a time, a question, was, oh, so transformational?

Mike Litton
Well, it’s actually a series of questions and it’s one of my favorite stories. I just recently was hired by Southwestern College, a local college here, as an adjunct professor or adjunct instructor for real estate. And 20 some years ago, I was in National City at their adult education center. I was teaching a class on how to succeed in real estate.

There were 45 people in the room. And there was a young man in the corner with his hat on sideways, and every time I said something, he said something to his neighbor, and I got all of that I could stand, because I’m a very patient person, it took less than five minutes. And I went back there and stood over him with my arms folded, just like his were, and I said, “So, I get the impression you don’t think I know what I’m talking about.” He said, “I think you’re full of…” fill in the blank, right? It wasn’t a nice thing.

Pete Mockaitis
Poo-poo.

Mike Litton
Right. Exactly. And I said, “How about if I give you an example right here, live?” “Oh, I’d love to see this.” And so, I walked up front and I picked out the hottest girl in the room. And I walked up to her and I stuck my hand out, and I said, “Hi, I’m Mike.” And she said, “Hi, I’m Missy.”

And I said, “Missy, have we ever met before?”

She said, “No.”

I said, “Can I ask you a question?”

She said, “Sure.”

I said, “Where were you born?”

She said, “Chula Vista.”

I said, “Great. Did you grow up in Chula Vista?”

She said, “Yeah.”

I said, “What was your favorite thing about growing up in Chula Vista?”

She said, “The beach.”

I said, “Great. What was your favorite thing about the beach?”

She said, “The ocean.”

I said, “What was your favorite thing about the ocean?”

She said, “Swimming in the ocean.”

I said, “Why is that?”

And she said, “Because I never feel as free as I do when I’m swimming in the ocean.”

And so, I asked her, I said, “Missy, we’ve never met before. You and I have known each other now less than a minute. Do you feel closer to me than you did less than a minute ago?”

She goes, “Closer? I’m ready to marry you.”

Okay? Now this was this kid in the corner, we never heard another thing from him. He hung on every word after that. But here’s the thing. All I did was ask her questions about her, and then I asked her questions about the answer she gave me, right?

And so, what we’re not doing nowadays is we’re not staying curious about the people around us, the people we’re on the phone with, the people we’re working with, that kind of thing. And so, my big thing, I was just at Stanford a couple of weeks ago, giving a toast to a public speaking class up there. And I was the guest of their instructor.

And I, basically, told them, they gave me two minutes and you cannot go over it. It’s an absolute sin if you go over two minutes. So, I got up and I said, “Listen, it takes me 30 minutes to introduce myself. So, very quickly, everywhere I go, I try to add value. So, let me give you two items of value. Number one, if you ever have stage fright as a speaker, love the audience more than you love yourself, and your stage fright will go away.”

Pete Mockaitis
All right.

Mike Litton
“If you care more about them getting the message and you’re teaching them than you do about how you look doing it, you’re going to be fine. The stage fright will go away. Next, I’m going to suggest to you that you do what I suggested both of my kids do, who are now 25 and 27. And what it was, was take out a word processor and the largest font you can, on top, type out, blank document, type out, ‘Stay in curiosity.’”

“At the bottom, ‘Stay out of judgment.’ Okay. Print it up and post it on a wall somewhere where you see it every day when you’re working, right in front of where you’re working. So, when you’re on the phone and you’re working, you remember to stay curious about the people that you’re on the phone with, about the world around you, about everything that’s going on. If you do that, your life will be so rich, you won’t recognize it.”

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, Mike, that’s beautiful, right off the bat. And what’s so fun there is that series of questions, it’s not complicated, it doesn’t require much memorization, but we’ve managed to go from basic facts – fact, “I was born in this location,” – down into something that is deeply meaningful to her very quickly.

And, in so doing, yes, you naturally have good vibes towards the person because now you are summoning for them one of their most meaningful memories, and that feels good. And you were the one who made those good feelings happen in one flat.

Mike Litton
Yeah, she had a state change, what we call a state change. She looked like she was getting euphoric when she was talking about how free she feels swimming in the ocean. And that’s what this is about. It’s about being curious enough about the person that you’re in front of, and then it’s about asking them questions about what they just answered. They’re called piggyback questions.

And all you’re doing is you’re caring enough to ask. You’re caring, right? So, after the class, she came up to me, and she said, “You know, Mr. Litton, when I said I was ready to marry you, I was sort of half kidding.” And I said, “Okay.”

She said, “I’m 18 years old and I’ve stopped dating.”

And I said, “May ask you why?”

And she said, “Yeah.” She said, “The boys my age don’t ask me about me. They only talk about themselves.” And she said, “And I’m just sick of it.” She said, “You’re the only man that’s shown an interest in me other than my father.” That’s not good, okay?

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, that is a sad commentary in terms of the state of our society. And also, call me optimistic, a fantastic opportunity for all of us to show that interest, curiosity, and those questions, and great things happen.

Mike Litton
It happens everywhere you go. I went to a party the other day with my wife, and I don’t think she enjoys going to parties with me because I become the person that everybody wants to talk to. And the reason for it is I’m curious about them. I ask them about them, right?

And then another person comes along and we ask them about them. And then another person comes along and, all of sudden, we’ve got five or six, seven people standing there and we’ve got five, six, seven live stories. And what happens is that group of five or six, seven people, all of a sudden, realize that they have something in common with this other person, “Oh, my uncle went to Notre Dame.”

“Oh, my goodness. Did you know so and so?”

“Oh, so-and-so went to Illinois.”

“Oh, did you know so-and-so?”

“Oh, by the way, my brother was in AAU basketball. Did you have coach so-and-so?” You with me? And, all of a sudden, it’s, like, you cannot believe how connected we are until we start talking about people’s life stories. And that’s what we do with our podcast, is we have our guests share their life stories with us.

The cool thing about it for our listeners is they get an opportunity, and they’ve shared this with us. They get an opportunity to connect with our guests because of something that happened in their childhood or something happened in their life that they were able to connect with, and something similar, right?

We’re all looking to connect. We’re all looking to find something that we have in common. And if all we do is ask about the person we’re talking to on the phone, or ask about the person that we’re standing in front of, or ask about the person that we’re teaching, or ask about the seminar attendee that we’re talking to from the stage, we will engage them and we’ll engage all the people around them.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s beautiful. Well, so can I hear some of your favorite questions? Any do’s and don’ts as we navigate this path?

Mike Litton
So, some of my favorite questions are, “What’s your favorite thing about X?” “So, what was your favorite thing about growing up where you grew up?” And one of the things we always ask on our podcast was, “What was one of your favorite things?” or “Who is the most influential person to you growing up?”

And they open up. They become that kid that was being influenced, all of a sudden. And it opens up a Pandora’s box, in a good way, right, in terms of all the different stories and all the different things that come to mind and that they remember. And it’s a really, really cool way to go.

So, one of the things that I’ll do, I’m in real estate, when I go to list of property, I’ll walk in and I’ll ask the owner, I’ll just ask him, I’ll say, “What’s your favorite thing about your house? What’s your favorite thing about your neighborhood? What’s your favorite thing about the city you live in?” Right?

Because I want to know, legitimately, I’m the one that’s helping to sell their property. I want to know, when a buyer calls, “This is their favorite thing about the house. This is their favorite thing about their neighborhood. This is their favorite thing about their city.”

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah. Yeah, that’s so good because, otherwise, it’s quite likely it could blow right past you. Like, if you were to ask me, I would say, we’ve got these giant screened, cedar sliding doors on the back patio, which I’ve never really seen before. It’s kind of novel.

And it’s just so fun in the patio, you could have it open, you can have it closed. And when I close, I always like to just give a nice, deep smell of that cedar on both sides of the door at the same time. It’s my weird little ritual. But it gets me in a groove of savoring the little things, like the outdoor view and the feeling of, “Oh, I could enjoy sun and also be shaded in a patio at the same time and the smell.”

Mike Litton
Exactly.

Pete Mockaitis
And so, that is such a cool little thing that you could convey to a potential buyer, it’s like, “Oh, hey, get a load of this. The cedar, you can still smell it.” And that’s just engaging another sense, and, hey, who knows, that might make the difference in terms of nudging them over the edge, like, “Yeah, let’s make an offer on this one.”

Mike Litton
Yeah. Well, the thing that seems to sell houses is the neighborhood. And so, they’ll tell you about their favorite neighbor, two doors down, that does a barbecue every summer, and they always invite the neighbors over, and yada, yada, yada. You with me?

And so, the thing that sells it is the relatability and how friendly everybody is in the neighborhood and all that kind of thing, and they watch out for each other. There are features in the house that’ll help sell the house, but, notoriously, the thing that they grab onto is the neighborhood.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s powerful. Okay. What are some other favorites?

Mike Litton
Well, one of the things that I love to do is I love to ask people what it is that they do for a living, and then why. In other words, “How is it that you became a pilot?” “How is it that you became a doctor?” “How is it that you became a nurse?” whatever it is they do. And, usually, there’s a great story behind it. They had a dad that was a surgeon. They had an uncle that was their favorite, that was a nurse.

And we’ll talk about kind of what their favorite thing is about that particular relative or that particular person that had that impact on them. And it’s really a lot of fun to just get to know people, right? Like, “Where are you from? Where were you born?” Especially, if they have an accent, right, it’s like, “Wow, what state is that accent from?” you know, right?

And, all of a sudden, it’s a conversation that you’re having where they’re now teleporting themselves back to when they were growing up and back to where it is that they came from and what their favorite food is and all those things, all those wonderful memories.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s super. Well, could you also share with us what are some not-so great questions, like, “Yeah, I’ve tried them out and they don’t really go anywhere or do much”?

Mike Litton
One of the things that I don’t ever do is I don’t ever ask people why they chose something, “So, why did you choose to live here?” “Why did you choose to use that particular service provider?” “Why did you choose to do this?” Right?

The reason for it is why tends to get them on the defensive. They tend to feel like that they need to defend whatever decision it was that they made, okay? So, why is something that I would avoid. Now, if you really want to connect with somebody on a deeper level, and you’ve done your prep work to an extent where you’ve asked them about them long enough, you can go to the why question, but you have to get to a place to where you’ve earned it, right?

You have to get to a place of trust. And then it’s like, “You know, I’m just curious, given the fact that you do this, I’m just fascinated by why you would choose to do that.” Now that is a different conversation. That’s less accusatory. That’s more curiosity involved. And people love it. Absolutely love it, Pete. When you’re curious about them, they love it.

And as much as parents and grandparents will tell you that they’re their grandparents and their kids are their favorite subject, it’s actually them. They’re actually their favorite subject. They just won’t tell you because that’s not the politically correct thing to do, right? But they’re literally dying to tell you their story. You just have to care enough to ask.

Pete Mockaitis
When you said they’re literally dying to tell you their story, I saw a study and, hopefully, we could find it in the show notes, is that folks were, in fact, willing to receive less money in an experiment if they had the opportunity to self-disclose, to say something about themselves. And so, we use the word literally, literally its value can have dollar signs attached to it.

Mike Litton
Well, here’s a question for you. What is it that makes dollars valuable?

Pete Mockaitis
You know what comes to mind is a snippet from an episode of the Simpsons in which Homer, he’s trying to find a donut, I think, under the couch and he goes, “Aww, $20.” And his brain says, “Wait, $20 can buy many donuts.” He says, “Explain.” “Money can be exchanged for goods and services.” So, I guess that’s your dictionary definition of why, “Why money is valuable.” It can be exchanged for goods and services.

But if we dig into the theme of the day, the curiosity and what it means to individual people, it’s quite fascinating. And my mom worked as a, she was the CEO of the Education Personnel Federal Credit Union in Danville, Illinois, so all my teachers banked with my mom at the Credit Union, which is an interesting experience. So, there was a constant conversation loop between the two in there. And she’ll tell you it was quite fascinating. Everyone’s views of money could be so different, and yet strongly held.

Mike Litton
So, let me ask you this. What’s the difference between their views?

Pete Mockaitis
So she would say, for example, that you could take any facet of their relationship to money and it’d be very different. Like, for some folks, like debt, they won’t touch it, “No, no, no. That’s scary stuff. Don’t want to go there.” Others, totally comfortable with it and totally comfortable with their bankruptcy afterwards.

Mike Litton
Is it possible to say that their value of money comes from emotion?

Pete Mockaitis
Probably, yeah, because money does something for you that you care about, whether you call it freedom or responsibility or…

Mike Litton
Accomplishment.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah.

Mike Litton
Right? Okay. So, if you feel accomplished by getting X amount of money for something, and you’re willing to take less if you’re able to tell your story, how does that equate? It’s because the value of getting more diminishes because you’re now closer to that person and you’ve now had an opportunity to express who you are. Does that make sense?

Pete Mockaitis
I hear you.

Mike Litton
We’re emotional creatures. We buy with emotion. We justify with logic, okay?

Pete Mockaitis
Yes, I buy that.

Mike Litton
That’s exactly the reason. That’s exactly the reason why that study says what it says, because if all you do is get to know somebody and get them to a place to where they’re comfortable, and they’re comfortable talking with you, all of a sudden, they’d be willing to take less. All of a sudden, they’d be willing to work with you.

All of a sudden, they’d be willing to figure out a way to sell you whatever it is they’re trying to sell you, be it a car, house, whatever, simply because they want you to have it. Why? Because you cared enough to ask. You cared enough to show an interest in them.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, you’re bringing me back to my most recent substantial purchase was a hefty custom-made studio door. And I noticed on the website, it said there’s a 10% discount, but I had started working with the sales guy, Kyle, who was amazing. And so, he gives me the price, then I mentioned, “Well, you know, I also noticed that there was this discount from the website. And it’d be great if we could apply that, but don’t do it if that impacts your compensation any way, because I want you to earn the entirety of it.”

So, there I was thinking, “Kyle is so awesome. I would like a lower price, but not if it impacts his money.” So, he’s like, “Oh, we could do it.” I was like, “It’s awesome. Thanks. Win-win.”

Mike Litton
Yeah, there it is.

Pete Mockaitis
In action.

Mike Litton
Exactly, in action, yeah. That’s cool. Yeah, so what you want to try to do, and this is again, questions are incredibly important, but they’re only important if you’re using them strategically. Okay. And the best way to use questions strategically is to stay in curiosity, stay out of judgment, get to know people.

I tell people all the time, I’m the king of the stupid question. Why? Because I’ll ask questions you won’t ask. I’ll ask questions the person down the street won’t ask. Why? Because they prejudge those questions. They’re in judgment, not in curiosity. I don’t prejudge questions. I just ask. And if it’s inappropriate, people will tell me, right?

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah. Well, can you give us a couple examples of a question that some may say, “That’s too dumb,” but you go there and it works out for you?

Mike Litton
Well, a lot of times, you’ll have people that will tell you about some accomplishment. They’ll tell you about something that they’ve done. And at the end of it, I always end up turning around and asking them, “So, let me ask you a question. What was it about that that made you feel accomplished? What was it about that that you’re so proud of?”

Most people won’t go there. Most people won’t want to go to a place where they dig a little bit where somebody’s concerned, and they certainly won’t ask them if this person has had some sort of tragedy in their life. So, I interviewed a lady yesterday who has been through a lot of tragedy. She was born in Zimbabwe, grew up in Zimbabwe, moved to the UK. Had all kinds of interesting things happen.

As a 20-year-old girl, she spent the night in a phone booth, you know, those red phone booths in London. She spent the night in there because she had nowhere to go. She was homeless that night, and it was because of an immigration thing and some sort of snafu and this and that.

And so, I asked her, I said, “So, how did that make you feel?” Well, most people won’t go there because they don’t want to know how it’s going to make her feel, and they know it’s probably going to cause her to cry.

Now, if she’s not willing to tell me, she can always say, “I’m not willing to go there,” okay? But that’s not what happened. She ended up telling me how it made her feel, and it helped to motivate her to where she is today, where she’s an amazing success, but she’s an amazing success because of all the things that she went through in her life. Makes sense?

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah. I love that a lot. And what’s so interesting is people are scared to ask those questions. They don’t ask those questions. And we have this fear that there’s going to be a bad outcome. And yet, as I think about some of my darkest moments, you know, my dad died when I was a teenager, I got punched in the face randomly in Chicago.

I really value and appreciate the people who do ask those follow-up questions, because I feel like they really care because, and it’s rare and noteworthy and special. And I might be reliving a bit of some sadness or unpleasantness, but, in a way, it’s more positive than negative because I feel cared about and I’m able to confront something with, like, a helper, a teammate, someone on my side.

Mike Litton
And it’s cathartic. It’s cathartic. If you keep it inside, if you keep it in here, it feels, it just festers and it gets worse and worse and worse. And pretty soon, it feels like it’s this big and it’s heavy and it’s obtrusive and all that, right? When all you have to do is get that person to tell you about it and tell you how it makes them feel.

Now, are they going to cry? Typically. Possibly. Right? Are there going to be tears? Yeah. Are they going to get emotional? Yeah. I don’t want to make people cry, but I also don’t want people to keep that bottled up. It’s not healthy. It’s not healthy to not talk about that. And I’d be willing to bet you that with what happened with your dad, that that made you a better father. I’d be willing to bet you that it did. And I would ask you that question.

So, let me ask you a question, losing your dad when you did, how did that affect you and your mission as a dad? And then, all of sudden, it’s like, “Huh, here comes the flood works.” Because it really does affect you in a major way. And it’s one of those things that is sort of a pivot point in your life, painful, but a pivot point in your life.

And you can then pivot in that conversation to all the wonderful things that you’re doing for your kids. All the wonderful things that you’re doing as a dad. All the wonderful things you’re doing as a leader in the community, because that’s what your dad would have done. Does that make sense? That’s everything.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, yeah, it really does. And we’re talking about questions and I just want to say the answer, because, sure enough, case and point, this is the stuff working, and it does make me want to let my kids know, absolutely, every day, and clearly that they’re loved. Like, I’ll say, “Did we forget good morning hugs and kisses?” you know? “Well, let’s go ahead and do that now,” because you never know. Today may be our last day.

And so, I would like that to be unmissable in terms of like, “Oh, if I exited, that would be very clear to them, “My dad absolutely loved me.” Or, in terms of just my own health, it’s like, “Hey, as a 41-year-old man, things like cholesterol kind of matter. So, got to take care of some business.”

Mike Litton
Yeah. And, you know, there are all kinds of positives that came from you losing your dad as early as you did. And the way that you go about exploring that is by asking questions about how did that help you. What are the top three things that you do today that you would not have done if that hadn’t happened? Those types of things.

And so, all of sudden, you’re now looking at this, and you’re looking at it in terms of, “Wow, this really did happen for a reason. This really is something that’s had a major impact in my life.” And the best thing about it is, if I’m interviewing you, the audience now has an opportunity to share with you in what that experience was like, and what your life post that event has been.

Pete Mockaitis
Fantastic stuff. Well, Mike, I’m curious, any other do’s and don’ts when it comes to the question game?

Mike Litton
You know, the one thing that I want people to understand is the person that’s asking the questions in the conversation is the person that’s controlling it. So, you’re the person that’s controlling the conversation, right? And it’s not about being a control freak or any of that kind of stuff, but it is about where you take the conversation.

Because, ultimately, if you’re asking questions and you’re talking to somebody, what you’re doing, basically, is you’re helping them get to where you know they need to be, okay? And I’ll give you an example. So, I interviewed a lady that I call my CEO whisperer.

And the reason I call her that is because she worked for one of the most awesome CEOs ever in the business in corporate America for 25 years. And he was somebody who was very authentic and he was very approachable. He was very sort of normal, right, where he would go in and he would sit with somebody that was two, three, four levels, five levels down from him.

He would go in, sit with them, close the door, take out a pad and a pen, and he’d ask them, “How are you doing? How is the company doing for you? How is the company helping you to get to what your goals are? How can we do better? How can we win with you?” Okay? Now all of these questions are important, and he would listen to the answers. And the most important thing is he would write down the responses.

What that did, Pete, was that validated them. And they connected with this man on a deeper level. The fact of the matter is this, there’s a survey or study that just came out where 86% of workers in America are detached, disengaged from their jobs – 86%. If all we do as leaders is, go sit with our people, and just connect with them.

Just sit down with them and ask them those questions, “How are you? How are we doing as a company for you? Are we helping you as much as we can to reach your goals? What do you think tomorrow looks like? How can we succeed together? How can we win with you?” All these types of wonderful questions that helped that CEO to connect with that person that works for them, right, “What are you seeing on the front lines that I need to know about because I’m up in the C-suite?” All of those things.

So, I’ll give you an example. Let’s say that your company has your board of directors, has decided that they want to take sales from point A to point B, so from here to here, okay? Up, up, right. And you go and sit with the people that work for you. The best thing you can do is walk in, and say, “Look, the board of directors has tasked me as the CEO to get our sales from here to here. What part in that ascension or that increase in sales can you help us with? What active part can you have in this? Great. Tell me more.”

And it’s one of those things where they’re going to, literally, sit with you, and they’re going to share with you how they can help that company succeed. Imagine you do that a hundred times with a hundred employees. What do you think next year’s going to look like?

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, awesome.

Mike Litton
You with me? And they’ll, literally, say to you, out of their own mouths, because when you speak it, it’s real. You know this. When you speak it, it’s real. They’ll, literally, tell you out of their own mouths in their own words, “This is what I can do. This is what I will do.”

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah. And it’s fun in terms of…

Mike Litton
It’s absolutely fun.

Pete Mockaitis
“Well, you know, I’m actually pretty good at this thing. So, would it help if I did that?” And they say, “Well, yeah, it would.” And they say, “Well, great because that’s what I like to do anyway, and I get to make a contribution at the same time. That’s just a good workday.”

Mike Litton
“And I get to build a deeper relationship with the guy that I work for.”

Pete Mockaitis
Super.

Mike Litton
It’s all a plus.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Mike, any final thoughts before we hear a few of your favorite things?

Mike Litton
Just be curious. Stay in curiosity. Stay out of judgment.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, then let’s now hear, can you tell us a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Mike Litton
What you speak is real. If you speak it, it’s real.

Pete Mockaitis
And a favorite study or experiment or piece of research?

Mike Litton
Yes. The 7-38-55 Rule. And it’s amazing to me how few people know about the 7-38-55 Rule. Are you familiar with it?

Pete Mockaitis
I think you’re going to talk about the impact of our words versus tone versus nonverbal.

Mike Litton
Yeah. So, you do know about it. So, 7% of human communication is the words that you choose, like loquacious versus talkative, right? So, 7% is your vocabulary. Thirty-eight percent of your ability to communicate to another human being is the way you say the words that you choose, your tonality, your energy, your congruency, your commitment, all of it, dedication, all of it, okay?

Fifty-five percent, more than half of your ability to communicate with another human being is body language. It’s how you use your physical body. It’s your facial gestures. It’s your gestures. It’s everything. It’s how you carry yourself. What’s interesting about it is 100% of your ability to communicate with another human being is face to face. That’s why video is such a big deal.

But if you look at what we call the telephone quotient, it’s 7 plus 38, it’s 45. So, 45%, less than half of your ability to communicate with another human being is verbal. So, it’s over the phone, right? So, that’s why when you’re making phone calls, we suggest that you stand in front of a mirror, that you stand up, that you smile because people can hear you smiling over the phone.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, very good. And a favorite book?

Mike Litton
Nobody Is Coming to Save You by a guy by the name of Scott Mann.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And a favorite habit?

Mike Litton
Asking questions.

Pete Mockaitis
And is there a key Mike Litton-original sound bite that people quote back to you often?

Mike Litton
Mike Time. So, when I owned my real estate office, it was a very large real estate office. I had hundreds of agents working with me. I would get a phone call from them, and I still do, even now that we don’t own it anymore. The agents that used to work with us would call me up and go, “I just need five minutes of Mike Time.”

And what that meant was they had gone out into the world; the world had beat them up and they just needed five minutes with somebody who was sane and somebody who was positive and somebody who would listen to them. And that was me.

Pete Mockaitis
Beautiful. And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Mike Litton
Probably LinkedIn. Just look up Mike Litton at LinkedIn. And then I have this podcast called The Mike Litton Experience. You can Google it, where anywhere you get your podcasts – Spotify, Apple iTunes, Amazon, anywhere you get your audio. And then, also, we have a YouTube channel, “The Mike Litton Experience.”

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a final challenge or call to action for folks looking to be awesome at their jobs?

Mike Litton
Stay in curiosity. Stay out of judgment.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Mike, thank you.

Mike Litton
Thank you, bud. This was fun.