022: Developing your Professional Brand with Catherine Kaputa

Pete Mockaitis
Catherine, thanks so much for appearing here, on the “How To Be Awesome At Your Job” podcast.

Catherine Kaputa
It’s great to be here Pete.

Pete Mockaitis
I know that you keep a pretty busy schedule with the writing and the speaking, and the media appearances and such, but can you tell us, what are you doing for fun outside that?

Catherine Kaputa
I’m putting in my garden right now since it’s the beginning of summer. I’ve been outside a lot, planting my tomatoes, and stuff like that. That’s been keeping me busy when I’m not on the road or writing?

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, delicious. If you are traveling, do you have a designated person who can be trusted with the garden?

Catherine Kaputa
Not any family members, I assure you. I live in Manhattan, but we have this cabin up state, and when we first got it my husband was out there, my son was out there, but I’m the only person out there now. So, yes, things get a little dry when I’m away. I’m trying to make short of trips in the summer. That’s it.

Pete Mockaitis
Good, good. I wouldn’t want any good tomatoes to die-

Catherine Kaputa
Right.

Pete Mockaitis
In the heat of battle or doing business.

Catherine Kaputa
Right.

Pete Mockaitis
Speaking of dire consequences, how’s that for a segue, with regards to plants dying. You share in your new book, Graduate To A Great Career, some kind of dire economic data associated with new graduates, and young professionals. Could you recap some of that for us here?

Catherine Kaputa
The whole reason I wrote the book is, I started meeting people who just graduated from college, including people with incredible credentials in top schools, and they’re slugging away 6, 9 months a year looking for that first entry-level job. It just struck me. It’s a very tough job market today for new grads. It’s pretty tight for all of us, although it’s slightly improving, but it’s still a very, very competitive market.

A lot of companies have got the gig economy too. You’re not being offered a full-time job, or a long-term job, or benefits. It’s different for young adults today, and new graduates. That’s what kind of got me interested in that whole thing, and one thing I discovered is a lot of people who are very good in academia aren’t necessarily good at marketing and branding themselves.

That’s what led to the new book, Graduate To A Great Career.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, that’s great. Well, it’s not great, it’s bad news. It’s kind of spooky in some ways, but … So, can you tell us a bit here? In one way there’s genuine skill gaps, in terms of employers want young professionals to have certain things, and they’re not seeing them, and then as a whole other part of the game, which is your impressions, brand-

Catherine Kaputa
Right.

Pete Mockaitis
Reputation. I think we’re going to spend most of our time on the latter point, but before we do, can you speak a little bit to … What are some of the surveys, and research pieces saying, are some skill based reasons why folks are having trouble finding great opportunities?

Catherine Kaputa
In the book I talk about hard power versus soft power, and hard power are the hard tangible things you can put on your resume, like your skills, the courses that you’ve taken, the internships that you’ve had, and soft power is all the marketing things you need to do to get a job today. Hard power is important too, and I think that one of the things that the chronicle of higher education, and the study they did. They found that hiring managers are twice as interested, but twice as much weight on practical skills and on-the-job learning that people had in internships, as they do to coursework and GPA.

You really want to think of hard power, which is the hard, tangible things on your resume, and soft power, which is branding power. The ability to market yourself well, and communicate your value.

Pete Mockaitis
Sure, and I totally agree with that. I have similar thoughts when I’m evaluating resumes for candidates. I like seeing a nice GPA or a fancy school. It tells me you’re smart, you could get in, you could handle your own and not flunk out, that’s good. Then, what I like even more are seeing great bullet points with, ideally, numbers, quantified results-

Catherine Kaputa
Right.

Pete Mockaitis
In terms of improvement, and efficiencies, or processing, or cost-reductions, or revenue increases, and it’s like, oh yeah, this person really knows how it’s done, and gets it. That’s cool.

Catherine Kaputa
In the book I also talk about how to put together a great bullet. You want to have a metric in there. You don’t want to just say, job function. You want to talk results. Quantify it, and bring it to life in some way.

Pete Mockaitis
I’ve said that so many times, to so many clients. Yes, we’re on the same song sheet there.

Catherine Kaputa
Right.

Pete Mockaitis
I just used some jargon. What’s that mean for my brand? I don’t know. Tell me this. When it comes to branding, that’s your previous book, You Are A Brand, and I guess, when I hear that, I think, yeah, that makes sense. There’s all sorts of associations with you as a person, and your professional, and what you’re bringing to the table, and what it’s like to have the experience of working with Catherine or Pete. I also chuckle a little bit, because I can recall a clip from the TV series, Entourage, and we’ll link that in the show notes. In which Vincent Chase, the star actor, is shopping around for some different agents, and they all give him the same presentation, like McDonald’s, Apple, BMW, Vincent Chase.

Catherine Kaputa
Right.

Pete Mockaitis
I’d love to get your take on that, as a personal branding expert. In what ways are the models and thought processes associated with marketing and branding products, absolutely sensible carry-overs, and what needs to be modified or adjusted a little bit there, so it makes sense?

Catherine Kaputa
I knew personal branding is, knowing your value, and being able to own your value, and communicate your value, and market it. I think having a branding background … I worked at 2 ad agencies, and I was a corporate branding director and advertising. It’s really using the principles and strategies from the commercial world brands to build your own brand.

I think it’s using a lot of the ideas about standing for something, knowing what your values, being able to articulate it in a sentence that’s memorable, that communicates a value added. It’s becoming a little bit famous. Everyone’s going to Google you, so when they Google you, they’ll see a strong brand profile online versus not. It’s all the things that you can do, name your ideas, communicate your ideas, things like that. To sort of stand out in the market place, and differentiate you, we talked about it, we’re in a very hyper competitive world today, from other people, and what you bring to the job that other people don’t.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. I’d love to dig into each of those points, and then some. About how you articulate that, and becoming a little bit famous. How do you articulate that? In the course of, your shaking hands with someone, your just meeting them, or they say, “Hey, we’re going to go around the table, introduce yourself.” What does that sentence or two sound like? Could you give us some examples-

Catherine Kaputa
Yeah, I can give you some examples, but it can happen anywhere. One client that I worked with told me this story. Like a lot of us, she would go into work early everyday, and in the elevator, sometimes the CEO would get in the elevator with her, and she was afraid to talk, but also afraid not to talk. What would Gina do? She would talk about the weather.

She was working with her own personal branding, and then she told me that another day she got in early, and the dreaded situation happened again. The CEO walked in the elevator, and that time another colleague, John, got in the elevator too, and he sees the CEO, and he goes, “Hello Bob. I’m John Smith. You don’t know me, but I’m part of the sales team in the XYZ area. We just had a great meeting with a client, and they’re going to expand the business their giving to us.”

The CEO looked at him, and said, “John, you just made my day.” He left. Gina told me, “Now I get it. What you mean when you’re talking about personal branding. What am I doing? I’m branding myself to the CEO as the weather girl, and my colleague is branding himself as the next VP.”

It’s that ability to have a conversation with colleagues, but also senior executives, not being afraid of them. In fact, she told me later, she started working on personal branding, and instead of talking about the weather in the elevator, she’d talk about a project that she and her team was working on. It made all the difference in her career, because she said the CEO recommended her for a special fast-track program that they had for up-and-coming executives. It led to her getting assigned a major division to run eventually.

It’s really that ability to communicate, and talk about your activities, and communicate your value. That’s what’s so important. What you want to do … How do you find out what your brand idea. One of the points I make in the way I look at branding is, branding is kind of attaching an idea to a product. You want to attach an idea to yourself.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay.

Catherine Kaputa
That’s a different idea from other people. Every brand wants … We’re all unique. You want it to be authentic to come out of who you are, and what’s special about you. Your special sauce. You want it to be relevant to that company, and to that business that you’re in. For example, one of the clients that I work with, she branded herself as an empowering leader. She was a strong team builder, and she empowered people, and a lot of her people got promoted, and went up the pipeline.

That’s the way she positioned herself, as the empowering leader, and she gave examples when she was up for her annual review, and things like that. It led to her getting assigned a lot of other departments that weren’t as well run, because she had such a strong reputation.

You want to attach an idea to yourself.

Pete Mockaitis
I like that example. I’m an empowering leader, and right now I’m thinking my buddy, Jeremy, he made a personal mission statement. This is just more so self-reflection thinking about what kind of roles, and things he found the most satisfying, and life-giving. He said, his life mission was to … Something about enriching and inspiring through laughs, leadership, and love.

Catherine Kaputa
Mm-hmm.

Pete Mockaitis
Some people are like, “Oh my gosh, that’s so cheesy. Come on, bro.” Others are like, “Yeah, that’s Jeremy. That is who he is, and what he is about. That’s spot on.” I think that’s cool, and it’s interesting, because both in the case of Jeremy, and in your example of the, “I’m an empowering leader.”

Catherine Kaputa
Right.

Pete Mockaitis
It seems like that may not be something you sort of broadcast out loud in those specific terms to everyone. I guess, know your audience, and adjust it. That provides a great internal compass for, okay, these are the opportunities I’m going to go after, and now I’m going to prioritize my day accordingly. I’m wondering, how would you … If that was your brand, about the empowering leader, what might be some different ways you say that or inform people that, that is the case?

Catherine Kaputa
Right. I think, no one likes a bragger. If somebody’s walking around a company, you know, I’m an empowering leader, it’s probably going to be a turn off, that kind of thing. Obviously, when you’re in a review with your manager or you’re pitching yourself for a stretch assignment, that’s a very legitimate thing to say, and give an example. For example, I had this team, and we had a deadline and it got shortened by 3 months, and this is how everybody pulled together. This person is now a VP at the company.

In those kinds of situations it’s great. In other situations, I think a good way to do it is talk about it in third party way. For example, the client was so pleased with the project that the team did, that they invited us out to a special luncheon celebration. Something like that.

It’s not bragging about yourself, but telling a story that’s like a third party, and telling a story about it. We had … It was really a great thing that the team did, and make it not about you, but about the team, and the project. Bring it to life, as if you were filming it. Here’s how things really got crazy at one point, and how we resolved it all. So, don’t make it about you, make it about the team. Tell stories. Use a little humor too.

I had a client once that told a story, afterwards said … The client was so pleased that the client nominated him for an award in their industry, and he won the award, and went up to receive it, and sort of stumbled up the stairs, or something like that, but the way he told it was with a little humor about … So, it wasn’t just, hey, I got this big award, but I was a klutz going up there. It really made the person more likable, relatable, and more like the guy next door kind of thing.

I think it’s … you don’t want to go around as a bragger. Nobody likes that, but it’s not being afraid, just like that elevator story I’m talking about. In fact, one of the things, Pete, is I’ve mentioned that story in a couple of talks where a CEO of a company was in the audience, and 2 of them have come up to me and said, “I love that elevator story, because I hate getting in the elevator, because all of my employees freeze up, and no one wants to talk to me.”

Pete Mockaitis
Absolutely.

Catherine Kaputa
You want to be the kind of person that … They’re human beings, and they actually want to hear what’s going on in your department, because it’s often hard to get a lot of that information.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s exactly what I was going to say, they’re human beings. They have that interest. They want to know, and sometimes they’re so high up, they don’t know. It’s a useful, valuable piece of perspective that they’re getting. So, everybody wins, and that’s fun. Along these lines, I’d also like to hear, are you articulating that? You’re not necessarily just throwing out the brand statement up front, but you’re noting that’s what you’re about, and you’re taking steps to live and be that, and realize that. As well as, identifying particular examples and instances, and trying to showcase that. Whether it’s a funny story or what not.

That all makes sense. It’s about having some upfront, planful, proactive focus about what’s yours.

Catherine Kaputa
Right. It could useful too, when you’re talking about your brand, like to use a metaphor. For example, a woman I know, who’s in market research is very good … her specialty is women, and women are the largest consumers of products anyway. Her strength is getting people to open up, and talk about why they buy brands, and why they like this one, and don’t like that one, and whatever.

She says, “My clients call me the Oprah of Madison Avenue.” There’s this kind of analogy. She’s like Oprah, who is very empathetic and gets people to talk in a show.

She gets these people to talk about brands, but also she softens it by, my clients call me that. It’s not that I came up with that name, but my clients call me that.

I think there’s a lot of ways to do it where it can be natural, but also memorable, and frankly, once I heard her say that, I’ve never forgotten what her brand is all about.

Pete Mockaitis
That is good. That’s good. I think that’s fun if you can just share, generally. I think this is really a point of strength. In fact, some people have called me this. It works well. As opposed to, what was there, a Seinfeld episode where he kept saying, “They call me T-Bone, people call me T-Bone.” Trying to give himself a nickname.

Catherine Kaputa
Right, right.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s fun.

Catherine Kaputa
Yeah, no, it is fun. Or I’m a cross between this and that. That kind of thing. In fact, when I was starting out in the advertising business, I had previously worked at an art museum, in the Asian art area, and I was trying to break into advertising, and every place I went, they just said, “No, no.” Because advertising, ad agencies, it’s viewed as a glamorous field. So, a lot of people are trying to get these entry-level jobs, and I didn’t have a particularly strong network.

Anyway, I finally got a few interviews, and I finally came up with a pitch that was, I’m a marketer for difficult products. I compared the background that I had in the art museum, working in Asian art exhibits, as that was like a difficult product. You know, western culture … you had to be more creative about marketing these shows, and coming up with interesting titles, and interesting PR and marketing plans.

That got me my first job in the ad business, before, when I was just saying I’m looking for an entry-level job, and I just worked at the Seattle Art Museum beforehand. I didn’t get anywhere, but marketer for difficult products, every agency has difficult products that are harder to market. I said, put me on those tough assignments.

You want to have something to say, to pitch yourself, and a reason that it’s true. That was my story, and it got me my first job.

Pete Mockaitis
How lovely. Could you tell us a little bit about … We covered some of the marketing yourself, messaging, humble brag, story telling elements. Could you share a little bit about how one goes about building a network of champions and sponsors who help advocate for you, and support you and your brand, and what you’re about?

Catherine Kaputa
I think it’s very important to have different kinds of networks, and probably your most important is your strategic network. In that you want to have people that are mentors, and I think it’s not … A lot of companies have a program where you can get a mentor, and that’s great, but I don’t think you want to leave it at that.

I think that like the elevator lady that I talked about, Gina, she actually developed a relationship, a strategic relationship with the CEO of her company, because she started talking to him about other things than the weather. He became … She didn’t go and say, will you be my mentor, but that’s the way the relationship developed. He helped her a lot.

I think it’s reaching out to various people for your strategic network. Some of them will be strong enough that they can be recommenders, and recommend you to specific jobs. That’s very, very important. For example, a friend of mine was interviewing for a job at her law firm, and it was one of those situations where you interview with five different partners in the law firm. My friend Sherry said, I’m perfect for this new position, because of my background, and I think I’ll really get it, and she interviewed with all five.

We know how this movie ends. Another lawyer in the firm, named Michael, got the job, and whose background, Sherry felt wasn’t as good as hers. So, what made the difference? She interviewed for the job, and Michael networked for the job. He had the interview with the 5 people too, but he also asked several other lawyers in the company that he’d worked with on various cases, to call members of the committee that they were close to, and lobby for him.

He even knew of, through his network, a lawyer that, at an outside firm, that was friends with a member on the panel, and reached out to that person, and said, “Gee, I really want this job.” He got the job. My friend Sherry said to me afterwards, “Hey, I don’t think that’s fair. It should just be about who’s best qualified.” But, hey, the business world … I said, “Think if you were on that committee, and you received several calls about Michael, and no one called about you. That would be a pretty strong thing to ignore.” It’s a very powerful thing.

Of course, in these kinds of situations, no one’s going to tell you, hey, you can get other people that are part of your network to phone in, and sort of talk you up. You’ve got to think of things like that. It’s very important. I think in a network there’s … Like I said, you want to have recommenders in you strategic network. You want to have mentors. You want to have also, people that are kind of at your own level, that also have similar ambitions that you have.

These are people that, maybe you have a more casual relationship with, that you could text them about, hey, any ideas? Can I show you this presentation I’m developing? I’m giving a talk to XYZ industry group, can you give me some pointers on how to make it better?

That’s why that kind of colleague or ally network, that I call it, is so critical in this strategic network. You also want to have some people there that know a lot of people, and like to connect people. I think a lot of people … One thing I say in my books is take the work out of networking, and stop making it about getting contacts so much, as about building relationships where you can learn something that’s kind of interesting, and help each other.

I think you’ll find having a strong and big and varied network is a life saver. Particularly in today when there’s so much dynamism in every company. It’s so many jobs now. The US Department of Labor statistics says, 70% of new jobs come through networking. That’s a powerful number. You just can’t rely on job boards or things like that. The hidden job market of unadvertised jobs, people feel is the majority of jobs, and it’s the best jobs, and you can only get to them through networking.

It’s very critical.

 

Pete Mockaitis
Lovely. Before we shift gears to the fast faves segment, is there anything else you just want to make sure-

Catherine Kaputa
I wanted to talk a little bit about some of the specific tactics like visual identity. In the branding world, you know that a lot of attentions put on the way a product looks. Apple, of course, made these beautiful looking products, and you want to own them, because they look so great. Package design is very important. Having a strong visual identity is important for people too, and even having a trademark look. Look at the presidential election that we have going on right now.

What’s Donald Drumpf’s trademark visual identity?

Pete Mockaitis 
He’s got red hat that says, “Make Donald Drumpf Again.”

Catherine Kaputa
Yeah, and he’s got that hair. Almost every interview talks about his hair.

Pete Mockaitis
His fingers.

Catherine Kaputa
I say, hey, that hair is a very powerful branding device for him. He doesn’t want to change it. Hilary has her pants suits, so, they have a very strong visual identity. I talk in my books about the beauty principle, because they find that brands, physical brands in the branding world, sell better, that look good.

There’s a halo effect. When something looks good, we think it’s better. We think what’s inside is better, and we even think there’s more volume inside it, like cereals, and stuff like that. The fact of the matter is, the way somethings packaged has nothing to do with what’s inside, but it’s all of these perceptions that are built up.

It’s the same way with people. If you package yourself attractively, and I think we all can do that, because being interesting looking is a smart visual identity, as well. There’s a halo effect, and people will think … There was a study done by 2 economists, one at Harvard, and the other one at Wesleyan, called the beauty principle, and it was done with people. They created a mock labor market. They found the the attractive people got the jobs, because when people took the time to dress for the part, and look good, people assumed they were smarter, they were more productive, they were kinder. They gave them a larger starting salary.

It’s important to think about. We may think, hey, visual identity, that’s superficial, why should it count? But it’s a part of the soft power that we talked about at the beginning. The other counterpart to visual identity, is verbal identity. You want to own a word or own a phrase to be known. Just like Donald Drumpf, you mentioned earlier, Pete, Make Donald Drumpf Again. A lot of people … that slogan resonates with them, and they remember it.

It’s important too. Name your ideas. Have things that people associate with you. I had one client that he … his word was, accountability, and he was in a company where they had some problems with client service, and he introduced new ways of tracking things, and metrics that improved account servicing a lot. It played into the strength that he wanted his brand to stand for. In terms of accountability.

Pete Mockaitis
I hear you. Thank you. These are a bunch of fun perspectives. Shifting into the fast faves here. Could you start us off by sharing, what’s a favorite quote that inspires you again and again?

Catherine Kaputa
The quote I use all the time is, “You are brand.” I think that it inspires me, because my whole business is built on helping people empower themselves to be more successful.

Pete Mockaitis
How about a favorite study or piece of research you cite often?

Catherine Kaputa
The beauty principle, because I think it’s something we don’t like, because we think it’s superficial the way things look, and we’re all guilty of it. We all say, “Don’t judge a book by it’s cover.” But we all do it, and we all can package ourselves to affect. That’s my favorite research.

Pete Mockaitis
Speaking of books and covers, could you share with us, what’s a favorite book of yours?

 

Catherine Kaputa
I guess if I’m reading for pleasure, it’s Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises, is the book I reread. My original background was in Japanese studies, and The Tale of Genji is a long book written in the 8th century, that I tend to reread once a year for inspiration.

Pete Mockaitis
How about a favorite habit or personal practice of yours that’s helpful for your effectiveness?

Catherine Kaputa
Reading the news every morning. I think the internet is so great for that now. I love … I start with tabloids, and then I get to the serious stuff. Ending with the Wall Street Journal, and then looking at different opinion pieces, and things like that. I like to get a snapshot of what’s going on in the world every morning.

Pete Mockaitis
A favorite nugget that you share? That in your books maybe it gets Kindle highlighted, in your speeches it gets people nodding their heads and re-tweeting. What might be that quotable gem?

Catherine Kaputa
One of the things. I do a lot. I’m a woman, and I do a lot of talks to women’s groups, and one of the stories I tell is that we women are very good at most things, but we’re not good at branding ourselves. In fact, one study done by a male, social scientist, said that men are so good at branding themselves. Sometimes they even, Pete, believe it or not, they exaggerate their accomplishments. What he called the male hubris effect. We women tend to down play our achievements. What he called the female humility effect.

I like to talk about that little research study too, because I think it’s so true. As I keep telling women, we have to not be so modest, and use the art of the humble brag.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s great. Thank you. What would be the ideal way to find you, if folks want to learn more or reach out? Is it best on Twitter or your website or what would you prefer?

Catherine Kaputa
The best thing is my website, selfbrand, S-E-L-F-B-R-A-N-D, but I do tweet, and it’s @Catherine Kaputa.

Okay. My name is hard to spell, because it’s Catherine with a C, and Kaput with a K.

Pete Mockaitis
It is so true. I’ve wanted to reverse that about 4 times during the course of setting this up.

Catherine Kaputa
Yes, yes, yes.

Pete Mockaitis
How about a favorite challenge or parting of word or call to action that you would issue forth to folks seeking to be more awesome at their jobs?

Catherine Kaputa
It’s really all about authenticity, and having the courage to be who you are, and make yourself a brand, in the best sense of the word. Standing for something that different, authentic, and relevant to the market.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Catherine, this has been so much fun. I wish you much luck with your books, and speaking, and more. This has been a lot of fun.

Catherine Kaputa
Thank you for having me. It was great to be here.