268: Tactical People Skills Learned by Undercover Detective / Reality TV Winner Derrick Levasseur

Pete Mockaitis
Derrick, thanks so much for joining us here on the How to be Awesome at Your Job podcast.

Derrick Levasseur
Thank you for having me, Pete. I appreciate it.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I think we’re going to have a lot of fun chatting about some of your background and tips and tricks discovered along the way. But I wanted to start in the early days of you being a police officer. I understand that you started so young, you were too young to buy your own bullets. What’s the story here?

Derrick Levasseur
Yeah, that’s true. I actually was hired at 20 years old. In Rhode Island, you can actually buy a firearm at 18 but you can’t purchase ammunition till 21, which is odd but that’s the way it is. So, fortunately, I was able to get my ammunition through the department, but as far as like recreational shooting I had to wait till I was 21 or go with somebody who was certified.

Pete Mockaitis
So, now, you started at 20, is that kind of – how many cops start at 20?

Derrick Levasseur
You know, back 20, 30 years ago that was more of the norm as far as guys coming straight out of high school and doing it. Today it’s a little bit rarer because in most cases you need to have a bachelor’s degree before you can even apply. When I applied it was only an associate’s degree, and it’s a weird story.

I came home for the summer, I was playing baseball, I was in between my sophomore and junior year, and the police chief at the time had known me as a kid, and said, “Hey, why don’t you apply?” There’s a couple hundred people applying. I was pretty good at tests, pretty good at interviews, and I actually finished first out of the entire class.

So at the end of it, he said, “Listen, although I didn’t expect this, you finished number one out of everyone so I really have no other choice but to offer you the job, and I hope you don’t let me down.” And, fortunately, it was a big change in my life and for the better and it changed my whole perspective on how I look at things.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, that’s cool. And so now you have a fair bit of undercover experience in your background which forms the basis of your book title The Undercover Edge. So maybe you could sort of excite us civilians with a tale of a big undercover operation and what it’s like in real life?

Derrick Levasseur
That’s a good one. I’ve done everything. Because of my age when I got on, I started undercover work when I was 21, and I had the opportunity to work in a lot of different capacities. I was a bartender, a bounder, a drug dealer, a college student. I think at one point I was even a high school student, so I played a lot of different roles.

But I guess if I had to pick one that stands out to me the most, and probably my first one. It was my 21st birthday, I was literally in a hotel room, I had just celebrated the night before so you can use your own imagination what that entailed, and I got a call from the chief of police, and he said, “Derrick, I need you to come to the station.”

And brought me to the station. He said, “Listen, there’s this organization at one of our local universities that’s pushing a lot of drugs. We want you to go in there. We want you to pretend you’re a student and a lacrosse player, and see if you can find out who’s involved and where they’re keeping the drugs.” So I linked up with the university, I was there for a little bit, and we ended up catching all 11 students that were actually selling date rape drugs and cocaine to other students, and it was a big issue on campus.

And the irony of all of it was less than a year prior to that, I was at school doing the same things I was doing undercover. So while I was undercover at these parties, talking to these students in their dorm rooms, I’m sitting there thinking to myself, “Here I am, took this job as a cop to get out of college and start making some money. And look at this, I’m back at school playing Madden in the dorm room.”

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Just to be clear. You do the same things as in playing Madden not selling date rape drugs.

Derrick Levasseur
Yes, yes, yes, let’s definitely clarify that. No, it’s definitely one of those things where, to familiarize yourself with these people, again, regardless of what they were doing, you have to develop common rapports with them. And in this case, it was playing video games, talking about sports, talking about lacrosse, and that’s what opens them up to you and make them more easily accessible both in communication and to personally understand them.

So, yeah, I would find commonalities with them that were genuine between them and I, and use that to develop a stronger relationship which ultimately led to me finding out what they were really up to which was not only were they playing video games but they were using video game consoles to hide their drugs.

Pete Mockaitis
Whoa!

Derrick Levasseur
Yes, so what happened was, real quick story, and to not go too on a tangent here, but I’m sitting there with the main guy, as I track them down, and we’re both sitting there playing games and we had a couple of drinks, and he looks at me and goes, “You know while I’ll never get caught?” And I said, “Why?” And he said, “Look at this.” And what I noticed was he had a PlayStation and an Xbox and he actually hollowed out the inside of the PlayStation and was storing the drugs inside of there.

When he showed me this, I looked at him and I said, “You’re right, they’ll never catch you.” And the next morning, his dorm room was getting knocked down by the SWAT team to come and get him. So, yeah, that’s kind of how it went.

Again, I will say that not every person – sometimes good people make bad decisions. And I don’t necessarily think these were the worst criminals in the world but they were people that were creating problems for other students and, regardless of the severity, depending on your own personal opinion, you got to get those guys out of there. And, fortunately, we were able to do that.

Pete Mockaitis
Right. Yes. Well, fascinating. So then let’s dig into it a little bit. So in your book The Undercover Edge, now that’s kind of your premise, right, is that there are a number of skills that you picked up and developed in your role as an undercover police officer that have brought applicability to professional environments and others. Well, I’ll let you do the talking. What’s the book all about?

Derrick Levasseur
Well, it’s a couple of things. The main thing is what I found in working undercover and just as a supervisor in law enforcement is that there’s a lot of applications that we use that can be used in business environments both at home and at school. So I was on the show called Big Brother, I don’t know if you’re familiar with it, and it’s kind of a social experiment, and I’m sure we’ll dive into that a little bit deeper.

But what I found was this approach that I was using in the game was something I was using in life, and it’s based on observation, adaptation, and communication. So what I’m saying is that you could take the main skills and components of undercover work and use them in your everyday life whether that’s personally or professionally.

And a lot of what we’ll talk about in the book that they’ll see is there’s a few different points I’ll hit on. You can use the power of observation to create a profile, the effective use of silence to extract and evaluate information, the subtle benefits of interpreting body language and developing your own sixth sense, and the importance of self-awareness and adapting to your environment. There’s a lot of things in there.

And I also want to dive into developing a personal ops plan with a defined mission. Again, I’m using a lot of police lingo but what I found is that, regardless of what setting you’re in, it works. And another thing I want to elaborate on, when I was at the police department, I applied for the FBI and I wanted to diversify myself.

So I went back to school after getting my bachelor’s degree and I got my master’s degree in management. And as I was going through the school which was completely different from law enforcement, I was learning that although the situations they were giving us were different, the premise of what was actually taking place was the same, and although their approach worked, I found that my approach to undercover work was just as if not more effective in some situations.

Because think about it for a second. Big Brother. Are you familiar with the show at all?

Pete Mockaitis
You know, I saw the premiere and so I know you’re a big deal and you’re one of the greatest who have ever played the game, but some of that, unfortunately, is lost on me.

Derrick Levasseur
Well, let me break it down like this. The most simplistic way of saying what Big Brother is, Big Brother is a social experiment that involves being put into an environment with multiple people from different genders, different races, different ethnicities, different beliefs, and you’re all going after a similar goal but in some cases there’s only one position for that, you know, there’s only one spot for that position.

So, if you think about what that really entails, it sounds a lot like work to me. It’s not just Big Brother the TV show. So whether you’ve seen me on that show or not, the way I conducted myself in that house, in that social environment, the way I was able to build relationships with everyone and find out their motives through their verbal and non-verbal behavior, ultimately helped me win.

And what I’m saying is Big Brother is not just a reality show, it’s proof of concept. So if you can take that same approach and apply it in a business environment, whether it’s sales or security, whatever it may be, you can have the same type of success, although it may not be half a million dollar prize, it may be a promotion or acknowledgement from a supervisor, it could be that simple.

Pete Mockaitis
Now, to recap, for Big Brother. You sort of stay in the game by getting the votes, right? You’re not voted off, you’re voted to retain. That’s kind of the basic premise?

Derrick Levasseur
That’s the basic premise, yeah. Every week someone is voted off the show, and it’s usually derived around who people can trust, who they can’t trust, and how you present yourself in a way where people don’t find you threatening, and they’re more open to working with you long term. And, again, think about that. Where else would that be a good thing to have? In a work environment.

If you’re leading or you’re trying to build better relationships with colleagues or supervisors, having them believe in you and trust you is a prerequisite to creating any type of cohesion within that organization.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Cool. Well, so then walk us through a little bit about that sort of those three core tenets. So there’s observation leads to adaptation leads to communication. How do we sort of think about that in broad strokes?

Derrick Levasseur
Well, you think about it this way. A lot of people go into a situation and they want to put their best foot forward, right? So when you go into a situation, the way I approached it, and I’ll give an example because it’s always better to paint a visual because that’s how I am.

How To Be Awesome At Your Job, that’s the name of this podcast, right? Well, before you even get into your job, you have to go through the interview, and a lot of people would go into a work interview and say, “You know what, I’m going to go in there and I’m going to highlight the best things about me and hope that those are in line with what this company is looking for.”

Pete Mockaitis
Okay.

Derrick Levasseur
Well, I would say that that’s not the best approach. The best approach would be to research and gather intelligence on the organization that you’re applying for and find out what they’re about so that you can highlight attributes that are in line with their core values. So take the time, read their mission statement, find out their philanthropic efforts, and then maybe highlight the things that aren’t maybe your strongest points but are still in line with who you are and are more enticing to them as a future employee.

And I’ll give an even deeper example. Now I’m doing this podcast, I do a lot of interviews for the TV show on DiscoveryID, and for this book, and even though I’m doing a lot of them, I always take time to look into it. So, with you, Pete, I know that you always went to . . . Public Library with your dad, and you always wanted to find out more information, you were eager to learn.

And, again, it may seem like a minor thing but by taking five minutes to learn a little bit more about you than just coming into this interview and being reactive, I’m taking a proactive approach so I already have a similarity or a familiarity with who you are as a person, and could adapt my approach to be more in line with who I think you are as a person. And that’s just over the phone.

If I’m in person with you, I can actually look at your mannerisms, how you conduct yourself, and adapt my approach even further so that when we do start to communicate, I’m communicating with you in a way that you’ll be more receptive to what I have to say and I can elicit the specific response that I’m looking for.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Cool. So understood then in terms of it’s not so much like, “This is my best stuff. What do you think?” But it’s rather, “All right. This seems to be what you’re into, so this is what I’m going to share because it’s in alignment with that stuff.” So that makes great sense.

So I’d love to dig a little deeper then. Let’s say if we’re in person and there’s sort of mannerisms and things to observe and adapt to, could you give some examples? Like what might be the kinds of things that you pick up on and would seek to adapt to?

Derrick Levasseur
Right. Well, I’ve been fortunate enough to go to a lot of interview and interrogation schools, and some of those schools concentrate on human behavior and the psychology behind it. And what I’ll say to start off is anyone who tells you that there’s certain behaviors that everyone displays that automatically mean a certain thing, they’re lying to you. It’s not the case. It’s not the case.

There’s no universal behavior that automatically means a certain thing. So what I would say is that when I’m in person with you, the first thing you have to do is develop a baseline with that person. And when you develop a baseline, you’re learning what’s normal for them, and you’re observing their behavior to see what ticks they have as a person because some people will look you directly in the eye and talk to you and that’s just how they talk, and some people are more introverted and they’ll just kind of look away because that’s just who they are. It doesn’t necessarily mean they’re lying.

So by developing that baseline with you, Pete, I would determine what your natural mannerisms both physically and verbally because you may have a tone or an inflection to your voice that may sound a certain way to certain people but by hearing it on a normal basis, I can develop how you are every day, and that’s my baseline.

So then from there, when you’re trying to figure out someone’s motive or agenda or how they feel about a certain conversation, you start asking controlled questions or specific questions to that area that you’re trying to discuss. And what I would do is compare the behavior that you display at that point, both verbally and non-verbally, with the baseline that I know you normally represent.

So if you show signs of anxiety or a lack of interests, based on your tone or your body language, I can use that to adapt the conversation to keep you where I need to keep you. And as far as specifics, there’s eye movement. Some people will look directly at you when they’re talking to you, some people look away. There’s scientific information that suggests the right side of your brain is the creative, the left is the logical, and when people are lying to you or nervous, they will have a tendency to look to the right because they’re creating…

Pete Mockaitis
To their right?

Derrick Levasseur
Yeah, to their right.

Pete Mockaitis
To their right.

Derrick Levasseur
Correct. Because they’re creating a sound or visual as opposed to looking to their left when they’d be pulling from a memory. Again, that’s not with everyone but that’s one little thing you can look at. Some people are very steadfast and they’re not bleated when they’re looking at you, they’re squared up shoulder to shoulder with you.

Now if they start to bleat away from you or looking off in a certain direction, and that’s not normally what they do, that’s a cue that I would pick up on. Finger taping, toe tapping, rubbing of the legs, the arms, looking off in the distance, their inflection changes. Are they excited? Are they lowering their voice? What is that in comparison to what they normally display?

And that’s the key thing here is what they normally display. You can’t go into a conversation with someone you just met and automatically discern what their motives are. You can get a general idea very quickly but the longer you have with them and the more conversations that you’re involved in the more accurate your assessment will be.

So, yes, you can apply in the social environment when you first meet someone but it’s more beneficial in a controlled situation where you’re working with them on a daily basis. And, let’s say you’re in charge of a team and you have seven guys that work for you, seven men and women, you can develop a profile on each one of those individuals so that you’re not communicating with them with a blanket speech, you’re approaching them individually and finding out what approach is best for them as individuals so that whatever task or assignment you’re delegating to them they’re more receptive to it and will, hopefully, produce more productivity.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. This is intriguing. And, Derrick, it’s funny, I’m going meta here. I’m wondering, are you doing this to me right now? Are you talking quickly because I talk quickly?

Derrick Levasseur
No, I’m telling you, I’m doing this, and I think it’s in a lot of people like us that are like very driven. Like I was reading your description and you have a very impressive background. And I think when you’re excited about something, this is my normal behavior, I’m always like as I’m even talking to you right now, you can’t see me but I’m moving my hands, and that’s just a natural motion for me that I always do.

I actually got made fun of it for a little bit on the show because it’s just something I always did. But the reason I’m talking so fast, and I try to slow myself down as I’m doing right now, is because as I get passionate about it my brain is working faster than my voice can speak, so I want to make sure I hit you with all the things, because if I had it my way we’d have a four- or five-hour conversation where I could break down the entirety of the book, and instead I’m just trying to hit on the highlights and not make sure I miss anything because I really do believe in this approach.

I mean, if you think about it, I put my life on this approach in a lot of situations at work. So if I was willing to do that, and I’m still here talking to you, then clearly I believe in it. And it worked under those conditions, I definitely think it can work under lighter conditions like working in the sales department, you know?

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. I’m with you there. It was funny I was thinking what would happen if I slowed it way down right there? Would he adapt?

Derrick Levasseur
I probably would. I probably would. It is a subconscious thing for me now. I’ve been doing it for so many years. And it’s funny that you say that because people would point out on the show, and even in the interviews with Discovery Channel where my speaking and my behavior changes based on the person I’m in front of as opposed to a suspect or a witness or a victim.

You have to find a commonality there and, yes, it’s in your behavior, both physically, because, again, you don’t want to be over the top if they’re really relaxed, but also if they’re an excited person that’s really kind of ramped up all the time. You want to match that. So I do think there’s some truth in what you’re saying even though we’re joking around where when you’re trying to engage someone in a way that they’re going to be receptive to it, you have to match their enthusiasm whatever the level that may be.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Interesting. So when you talked about building a profile, could you share with us what are the core ingredients of that profile? And maybe an example of, “Hey, teammate A’s profile consists of X, Y, Z whereas teammate B’s profile looks totally different with J, K, L.”

Derrick Levasseur
Right. Well, let’s break it down to even a more micro level instead of being so macro like a team. I talk about in the book, I actually break it down in one of the chapters called Turn Police Tactics Into Corporate Strategies. And there’s a couple different things I discuss in there, and then in another chapter I talk about breaking down individuals within your organization. So let’s talk about that for a second.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, individuals.

Derrick Levasseur
What I do as far as profiling individuals in a work environment is you have to develop – you gather intelligence on them. So in the book I talk about your colleagues, and I break them down into categories. You have enthusiasts and opportunists.

Now enthusiasts will display certain behaviors, and I talk about those behaviors. They’re someone who is team-oriented, they’re looking out for the benefits of the organization not just themselves. They’ll divulge information that they learned about the job so that you can benefit from it as well. They’re more of looking out for what’s going to benefit not only them but the entirety of the company.

Whereas an opportunist, an opportunist is someone that will display the behavior of keeping information to themselves. When you walk into a room, as they’re talking with other colleagues, if they’re talking about something that maybe about you or about something they don’t want you to hear, they’ll immediately change the topic, or they just stare up into space like they weren’t talking before you walked in, which is something I think we can all relate to.

They’re someone who, instead of getting ahead on their abilities, they’ll rely on nepotism and they’ll frequent with managers and supervisors in order to get ahead through favoritism as opposed to on their own merit. These are people that you have to categorized and you have to profile so that you can learn how to work with them because the unfortunate truth is you can’t choose who you work with.

In some situations, you’re going to be forced to be in a team environment with opportunists, and you have to know how to accomplish your personal missions as well as the organizational goals while also keeping them in line knowing what their motives really are. And that’s the colleague side of it, then I talk about supervisors and managers.

In supervisors you have politicians, delegators, mentors. Those are some of the three main people you want to look out for. So with politicians, politicians are exactly what it sounds like. They’re the type of supervisor who is not going to really help you out but when it comes to receiving accolades or standing in front of the class or standing in front of the organization and saying why they accomplished whatever goal it was that they accomplished, they’re going to speak about how they were able to lead you in order to do that even though they didn’t put any effort in.

Delegators are pretty self-explanatory. These are the type of people that are at the top of the food chain but are still mid to high level management. And what they do is they get assignments from their bosses and instead of doing them themselves they’ll come to you and say, “Hey, Pete, you have a second?” And you may say, “Hey, no, I’m working on a couple of things right now.” And they’ll say, “Okay. Well, when you have a second, can you complete this Excel sheet for me?” But then they’ll follow it up with, “By the way, if you could have that to me by Friday it’d be really appreciated.”

So it just went from a favor to an assignment with a deadline. And as you start to read over whatever that assignment they want you to do, what you’ll find is it’s something they should be doing, not you. So, again, these are people you have to watch out for. For mentors, I won’t dive into that too much. You talk about mentors a lot in your podcast.

The mentors are the people you want to find, and they’re rarities. You have to find people who are leading the team but also in the way in which they lead is benefitting you and your personal development in whatever profession you’re in. And so by going back and actually categorizing these individuals, profiling them based on the behavior they display, you can conduct yourself in a way that’s more conducive to whoever you’re dealing with.

And that’s what I’m talking about. I’m not saying to de-humanize them but to understand who they are and what their motives are will allow you to adapt your approach with these individuals and communicate with them more effectively so that, yes, you’re accomplishing the goals of the organization but also your personal and professional goals.

Pete Mockaitis
And you know what’s interesting, as you sort of lay out these profiles, I guess I’m thinking about any number of tools or typologies like a Myers Briggs or a StrengthsFinder. They sort of serve up additional source of profiles in that you are sort of able to match someone to something that’s predefined. You know, it’s like, “Oh, this person seems to be an introvert versus an extrovert. This person seems to be a thinker versus a feeler.”

And so it’s interesting because, in some senses, I imagine that you’d find people that really neatly clearly fit into it like, “Yup, there’s a politician. Yup, there’s a mentor.” And others it’s like, “You know, I don’t know if I could put them neatly into any of these three but I do see maybe some other trait characteristic profile being exhibited.” So it strikes me as it can be quite valuable then to avail yourself to many potential tools, typologies, categorizations so that you can recognize a profile when you see it all the faster.

Derrick Levasseur
Absolutely. And you make a great point right there where not everyone is going to fit perfectly into one of these categories. But this is a generalization and an overview of some of the behaviors you should be looking for. And instead of just saying, “Hey, this is what you should look for.” I wanted to give people real examples, something they could start off with a foundation, and as you progress within that organization or the company or whatever role you’re in, you will develop your own categories as well of people and they may fit into certain areas based on whatever profession you’re in.

So that expansion from five categories could be to eight categories. And, again, it’s going to be more of a subconscious response but as you learn where these people fit, and it may be a hybrid between two, you can adapt your approach to be more effective to working with them. You see it’s more reactive. It’s all about being reactive.

A lot of people will go in there and try to force whatever, however they want things to go on people. You have to be willing to be receptive to what you’re getting and roll with those punches to be more effective because sometimes you’re not going to be able to put a square peg into a round hole. You have to go wherever the current is taking you.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Cool. So let’s think through here. So we talked about doing some observation in terms of mannerisms and in terms of profile, and then some adaption. So I just want to make sure we kind of cover some of the ingredients of adaptation. So there is the style of gesturing, there is the sort of pace and pitch of voice. What are some other dimensions that we might be on the lookout for to try to do some matching and to build rapport?

Derrick Levasseur
Well, what you just talked about right there is the verbal and physical cues that will help you develop a better means of communication, right?

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah.

Derrick Levasseur
But I can go deeper than that. So if you’re in a position where you’re in a position of power, you’re fortunate to have people you’re responsible for. When you’re assigning tasks, if you learn about these colleagues as individuals, you will find that sometimes what motivates one person may not motivate the other.

So, for me, what it’s about when I was a sergeant and I’m motivating my guys to do certain things, I have to motivate them in different ways. So for one person, if I know their main motivation is to be promoted and to take on more responsibilities, I will frame whatever delegation or assignment I have for them in a way that tells them, “This could lead to this for you. You could be promoted or be seen in the eyes of supervisors as someone who would be good for this position.”

Now, I could have the same task for somebody else, but for them what their motivation may be as something as simple as getting out of work a half hour early so they can catch their daughter’s soccer game. So for that person, because I know who they are and I know their family dynamics and I’ve taken the time to get to know them as an individual, I may say to that person, “Hey, you know what, Susan, if you’re able to complete this assignment, I’d love to get you out of here a half hour earlier just so you can get to your daughter’s game.”

And I promise you in most cases, not only is Susan going to complete that assignment on time, but is going to be more accurate than it’s ever been because she doesn’t want you to have any issues while she’s gone because she knows you’re doing her a favor. So what I’m suggesting is going deeper than just the physical cues you see both verbally and behaviorally.

Take the time to get to know the person as an individual, what their dynamic is outside the workplace because it’ll give you a better understanding of what’s going on in their personal life and may explain some of the behaviors that they’re displaying at work, and you can use that to your advantage.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Cool. Thank you. And now you also got a piece about silence and how that could be a valuable tool when it comes to acquiring and assessing information. How should we think about that?

Derrick Levasseur
You know, silence is something that I see as a real asset in group conflict. When you’re in a situation where you’re speaking with someone and you’re trying to get to the bottom of the issue, a lot of times you’ll ask a question, and as soon as they answer you, you’ll respond with an acknowledgement. And what you’re doing is creating an environment where they believe whatever their answer was sufficient by cutting them off.

And what I’m suggesting, and what I’ve done in multiple interrogations, is instead of responding right after they finish their first sentence, take a momentary pause. And that may seem a little awkward at first, but what I found is that by not immediately responding, what you’re doing is creating a psychological awkwardness.

We’re wired as humans to create dialogue, for one person to speak while the other person is listening. So when they say something and you don’t immediately respond, in some cases they’ll feel the need to fill that void. And sometimes you’ll hear information following that awkward silence that’s the most pertinent information of the entire conversation.

So by taking that second, that extra breath to let them get their full thought out, you may find out something about their current situation or about the conflict between two employees that you can use to better solve the issue, just by taking a second.

Pete Mockaitis
You know, it’s interesting with silence, I think a lot of times the awkwardness, it’s like the other party is inferring that you are displeased with what you just heard, like you find it to be inadequate, insufficient, not good enough. And so can you give me some examples of what are some of the things you’ve heard after a silence in a professional context that are really telling?

I guess, as I imagine it in my mind’s eye, I just sort of see people just sort of like really kind of apologizing or sort of sharing something that’s a real concern to them. Like, for example, you asked a question like, “Oh, hey, what’s going on with our top customers?” And they say, “Oh, well, you know, they made three orders last week, doo-doo-doo.” And then there’s just silence.

And then it’s almost like they’re just going to say some more, like, “But I could follow up with these customers as well.” It’s interesting, it could go in any number of directions. So, yeah, lay on some examples for us.

Derrick Levasseur
Well, to what you just said, my response would also be, “What do you have to lose?” because the worst case scenario is that the information they’re going to give out after that may not be as important and may just be something where they feel they need to fill that void and they’re just giving you some more information that really is kind of inferred just by what they initially said.

However, taking that extra second may divulge something. I’ll give an example in my profession, which was law enforcement. A lot of times in the city where I worked, it’s not really something – it’s frowned upon to talk to police, right? So you don’t want to be a snitch, right? So a lot of times when I’d speak with witnesses, if there was a shooting that just happened, I’d pull a witness aside and say, “Hey, listen, you know, my man, did you see anything?” And they’ll look around and see who’s looking, and they’ll say, “Ah, no, I just heard some shots and that was really it.”

Okay, and I’m just writing. I pretend like I’m writing even though I’m not really writing much. And I look at them like, “Go on.” They’ll look around a little bit more because now if I would’ve said to them, “Okay. Thank you,” and walked away, they’re not going to divulge any more information, right? But by looking at them and kind of waiting for their next sentence, they may say, “You know, it might’ve been a red car. It went northbound on Broad Street but, man, that’s all I know. That’s all I know. I don’t know anything else.”

And I’ll write that down and look at them again, “You sure? That’s all you know?” With my eyes, I’m saying, “Are you sure?” and they can tell. They can tell that you’re not satisfied and that you know they saw more. And then they might finish off with, “Ah, the first three digits might’ve been 353, but that’s it,” and then they’ll walk off.

Again, is it a full-proof plan that’s going to work 100% of the time? Absolutely not. But by not taking advantage of that technique, you’ll never know. And you have nothing to lose except looking a little awkward by staring at them for a second, but what you could gain, the reward from taking that second may be critical to solving the case, or, in a business environment, may be critical to finding out what the root of the issue is so that you can really attack it and you’re not just putting a band-aid on it.

Pete Mockaitis
And I’m intrigued, I think sometimes what that is likely to reveal are just sort of the worries or insecurities of the person you’re talking to which might just be helpful in terms of knowing your people well and being able to motivate them and reassure them and address any of their worries in terms of – because it’s almost like the silence seem to suggest a little bit of like, “I am not completely satisfied with what you have shared, so say more.”

And so that more can take any number of directions or flavors which are interesting. So, thank you. I guess we’ll see what we’ll see when you do it.

Derrick Levasseur
Yeah, absolutely. And, again, I say it a lot. It’s not always going to be a homerun but in some cases I think people will be surprised what they hear. And, again, you hit on it right there. Knowing your people, right? How can you know your people if you’re not willing to listen to them? And sometimes that goes beyond the work environment because their productivity at work may not just be solely predicated on what’s going on in the workplace; it may stem outside of those walls.

Pete Mockaitis
Certainly, yeah.

Derrick Levasseur
And, as a leader, as a position of authority, yeah, you may think that it starts and ends when they walk in that building, but the reality is sometimes people carry over what’s going on at home into the workplace. And, again, as a leader I think it is our responsibility to dive into those issues and to find out what it is. You may not have to be a therapist and fix those issues but understanding what they’re going through and sometimes being empathetic to it, it will help you better communicate with them so that, even though they have something going on at home, they can still get the job done because you’re relating to them in a way that they feel like you understand what they’re going through.

Pete Mockaitis
Good. Thank you. Well, so now, any quick tips when it comes developing that intuition or sixth sense?

Derrick Levasseur
Yeah, you know, I say it a lot. There isn’t innate ability to it. Growing up in the environment that I grew up in it was one of those things where I had to use my words a lot to get me out of sticky situations and that was something that really got detailed as I got into law enforcement, and I was fortunate enough to attend these advanced schools as far as human behavior and the psychology behind interviews and interrogations.

But what I will say is one of the main things that you can take away and start off today is just being a more attentive listener. Going into a situation, how many times have you seen a person shake hands with someone they just met, they start to hit it off, and they’re talking about the details involving their lives or what they do for a living, and then as they’re finishing up the conversation, the person will say, “And what’s your name again?”

And, for me, that’s unacceptable. That’s unacceptable because if you’re in a situation where you’re truly listening to what they have to say, instead of thinking about what you’re going to say next or how you’re being represented based on your posture and your handshake, then you’ve already known their name, you won’t need to ask it again.

But when you go into the conversation more concerned about what you’re going to say and how you’re going to look, you’re missing out on details. So, as a person, think about the situation. When you go into a room, really take in what’s around you before responding. Look at the environment, look at the people you’re with, and whatever position you’re in whether you’re an entry-level employee, you’re a manager of a company, digest the people that you’re dealing with before responding because you can save yourself a lot of aggravation by taking an extra second to think about who you’re dealing with, and then how to attack the situation as opposed to attacking it and then making audibles as you’re going through it.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, now, can you share with us a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Derrick Levasseur
I will say, “Dream as if you’ll live forever, live as if you’ll die today,” by James Dean. And I would say another quote, and I don’t know who actually said it, but it’s, “Fate said to the warrior, ‘You can’t withstand the storm.’ And the warrior whispered back, ‘I am the storm.’” I just like that quote.

Pete Mockaitis
That was good. Thank you. And how about a favorite study or experiment or a piece of research?

Derrick Levasseur
Well, obviously, crime, true crime and any type of history involving our judicial system is something I really like. And I do like psychology and human behavior. It’s something I’ve kind of focused on whether it was intent-ful or not. It just kind of became my thing. So, yeah, I would say definitely all judicial cases involving different unsolved crimes, and also human psychology.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And how about a favorite book?

Derrick Levasseur
I have a few. Okay, I’ll give one good one that you might even already know. It’s called It’s Your Ship by Michael Abrashoff, Captain Michael D. Abrashoff, and it’s about taking the best management techniques in the Navy and use them in business applications.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And how about a favorite habit?

Derrick Levasseur
I’ll tell you one habit that I’ve been getting into and it’s weird but it’s kind of my thing, is I’ve been traveling a lot. The last year I’ve been traveling a lot, speaking to different groups and organizations, and for the show, filming on different locations. One thing I always do is setup my room, my hotel room, as if it was an apartment because I’m usually there for seven to 10 days and a lot of people live out of their luggage.

But I try to make myself as comfortable as possible, and I think it almost makes me more relaxed and allows me to sleep better because I feel like it’s my home. And it’s tough to do in a hotel room but it has worked for me and I’m sure you’re someone who travels a lot as well. I always try to make myself as comfortable as possible because it makes me more relaxed and more effective in whatever I’m trying to do.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And is there a particular nugget that you share with folks that really seems to connect and resonate with them they end up quoting yourself back to you?

Derrick Levasseur
You know, for me, I always talk about – the back half of the book, I divulge a lot of personal stories, and not all of them are good. As a police officer I was involved in a shooting where I fatally shot someone who was trying to kill me, and it really messed me up for a while. And the reason I tell that story to everyone is because not everything has gone perfectly for me as with most people.

There are going to be times where you trip and fall and you fail, and it may be your fault or somebody else’s, or it may just be an adversity that you just have to go through in order to grow. And what I always tell people is, “Don’t fear failure.” Don’t fear it because failure is where the lessons are. It’s where you learn what you’re really capable of now and where you want to be. And it ultimately helps you evolve.

And through that evolution you become more self-aware which creates confidence, and that’s the same confidence you can use to observe the people around you, adapt to the situation, and communicate with them in a way that’s receptive to what they have with what you want to say.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, thank you. And, Derrick, if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Derrick Levasseur
Well, my social media DerrickL for Twitter, my Instagram is DerrickLevassear, L-E-V-A-S-S-E-U-R, and you can go to my website, OfficialDerrick.com. I just finished the book tour last week but you can go there and see some of the places I went, some of the conversations we had. And if you’re interested in the book, you can buy it anywhere, it’s called The Undercover Edge. It’s available at Barnes & Noble, Amazon, all the big brick and mortar stores and online.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And do you have a final challenge or call to action you’d issue to folks seeking to be awesome at their jobs?

Derrick Levasseur
You know, I would say, people out there, I think, something that I’ve learned on this book tour is that books are becoming less and less used as tools. People are relying on speakers and stuff like that, people like you and I. Books are where the real advances are. And anytime you buy a book, if you get one thing out of that book that advances your personal growth then the book was worth it.

And I would say read, read, read as much as you can, and surround yourself with good people who are enthusiastic and who have big goals because that’s contagious, and you’ll find yourself doing similar things if you surround yourself with those types of people.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Well, Derrick, thanks so much. This was a whole lot of fun, getting a fresh perspective on great stuff. So I hope that you are having a whole lot of fun, and using your undercover edge, and all kinds of good, wholesome, fulfilling, rewarding, interesting ways.

Derrick Levasseur
Thank you very much. I appreciate you having me.