005: Pitching Like a Champion with Chris Westfall

Pete Mockaitis
And here we are. Chris Westfall, thanks so much for appearing on the How to be Awesome at Your Job podcast.

Chris Westfall
Thanks, Pete. Great to be here. I really appreciate it.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, it’s so fun. Well, they heard about you, so I’d love to hear from you. Is there kind of what to do with what’s fun and interesting in your life beyond the professional stuff.

Chris Westfall
Well, beyond the professional stuff, my wife just talked me into going on this really crazy diet called the Whole30. I don’t know if you’ve heard —

Pete Mockaitis
What’s that about?

Chris Westfall
Well, what is this is basically a diet to help you kind of reset your internal systems and it’s very similar to like the Paleo diet, so you cut out a lot of what I call modern foods you know like the processed sugars and things like that. You get away from things that have gluten in it, so you cut out grains, you cut out bread.

Yeah, and I thought oh my gosh! I’m going to die on this because I’m a cookie guy, Pete. I’ll tell you right now. I’m a cookie guy and I’m a chocolate guy and those things had to go bye-bye but I survived and the idea is you can do anything for 30 days, and I made some serious adjustments and it’s been fantastic. I mean I really feel great and what I was looking at, I was like man how can I eat like a caveman? I mean I already thing like a caveman but how can I eat like a caveman?

So anyway making a change and cutting out things like dairy and grains has been for me really, really positive but now you know at restaurants, I’m that guy that has the special order, so anyways.

Pete Mockaitis
So you’re telling me in your genuine, no BS experience —

Chris Westfall
Uh-huh.

Pete Mockaitis
That epic sacrifice was worth it for you, the benefits exceeded the costs and you’re glad you did it?

Chris Westfall
It’s true. It’s true. It’s given me more energy, and Pete, I mean we don’t need refined sugars. We don’t need a lot of these things that we can create and they sure are tasty, but they don’t necessarily help us and I don’t know.

Yes, I would say absolutely it’s outweighed and it’s helped me to really adjust some things in my lifestyle that were out of whack you know like you, I travel all the time.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah.

Chris Westfall
So I’m living on airplanes and I’m always changing time zones and that can really throw your system out of whack and this helped me to reset, push the reset button, and I think everybody needs that every now and then, at least I did, so.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I’m actually potentially persuaded. I’ve heard of these things before and I’ve been a little bit skeptical but I guess maybe we should expect that you, the US National Elevator Pitch champion might be persuasive when you’re doing some of those communications.

So tell me, I’d love to hear the story. First of all, I was unaware of it before I met you that such a contest existed. Tell me what’s up with the US National Elevator Pitch Contest and if you could indulge us, show us what does a national award-winning elevator pitch sound like?

Chris Westfall
I will do so. Hey, a lot of people say to me, “Hey, I didn’t know this is a thing or what.”

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah.

Chris Westfall
What exactly is this and I’ll tell you the story, Pete. It all started with a Tweet. I know that sounds strange. I got about 13,000 followers on Twitter, so for me to see something in my stream is pretty amazing, but I saw something, come across it, and it was a few years back. It said looking for who has the best elevator pitch, and you know there was a link and I clicked through.

I found out about this contest where you had to record a video and the video had to be 118 seconds long, just a couple of clicks less than 2 minutes where you had to present some sort of persuasive story, and it could be about yourself. It could be about your business. It could be about your goals. It could be about whatever you want it to be, and then you had to submit the video and raise votes on social media, so people had to come and watch the video and vote on what people had created.

I earned this contest because at the time I was working with graduate students and MBA students on a number of different career-related issues, but one of them being an elevator pitch or an elevator speech, which by the way, Pete, I would probably should say if you’re not familiar with that term or that concept, an elevator pitch is a short persuasive introduction to a person or product or an idea.

Pete Mockaitis
All right.

Chris Westfall
So anyway, I went out on my front porch. It was very glamorous. I turned the camera around and 188 seconds later, I had my entry and I submitted it and I raised votes and Pete, I came in second place in the competition.

Pete Mockaitis
Cool.

Chris Westfall
Yeah, and I was actually second place. An entrepreneur in Atlanta won and I wasn’t surprised. She was very, very good but the folks that put together the contest reached out to me and they said, “Chris, kind of an American Idol thing that we’re doing here, second place in the voting but first place with us. You’re the grand prize winner.”

Pete Mockaitis
All right, all right. That worked.

Chris Westfall
I was like wow! All of a sudden, this went from one of those really good experiences that you try for but it doesn’t go your way to this wow kind of moment.

Pete Mockaitis
Cool.

Chris Westfall
And that was the turning point. That was what launched the books. That was what took me from the work that I was doing to Fortune 500 clients and helping people to get on Shark Tank and doing all the different things that I’ve been doing the last few years, so it’s just been a very, very exciting thing. People say to me all the time, “Chris, what was your elevator pitch about? What did you do?”

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, yeah. Let’s hear it.

Chris Westfall
And I said, “Here’s what I did. My elevator pitch was all about how the letters behind your name, right, the MBA, CPA, CFA whatever those, JD, whatever those designations are, they aren’t enough in the current environment trying to move your career forward. Everybody has a CPA.

Everybody has an MBA. Everybody has an undergraduate degree. I mean these calling cards become commonplace. So what my elevator pitch was about was how you have to be able to tell your story beyond just the degrees. In other words, you got to have an elevator pitch, so my elevator pitch was about the need for an elevator pitch.

Chris Westfall
Isn’t that great [laughter]?

Pete Mockaitis
Now why did they love it? They’re like yes, that’s what we’ve been saying. This guy gets it.

Chris Westfall
If you’re like well I like to see it and whatever, I’ve got a YouTube channel. I’ve got over 200 videos on my YouTube channel, and Pete, it’s coming up on I’m just a little bit away from a million video views.

Pete Mockaitis
Cool. That’s great.

Chris Westfall
Yeah, so people can find that on YouTube.com/westfallonline, and you can see the videos there. You can see the championship elevator pitch and a lot of other things that can help people with communication skills and all those kinds of things, so.

Pete Mockaitis
Fantastic. Thank you for sharing. That is good stuff and if folks had listened in and not able to access that immediately, just hit awesomeatyourjob.com, you find Christ Westfall post and bam! There will all be links right there on the show, so very cool. Intriguing.

So you got some skills here apparently when it comes to doing a bit of pitching and you got some books teaching folks about it, so I just love to hear then, tell us what are some key principles in terms of what makes for an effective elevator pitch or short persuasive tidbit? What are folks need to be keeping in mind in order to effective in making that communication?

Chris Westfall
The big thing that people have to remember is that when somebody comes up to you and says, “So tell me a little bit about yourself or tell me what do you do.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah.

Chris Westfall
That is actually a trick question because what they really mean is tell me a little bit about what you might be able to do for me.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay.

Chris Westfall
You follow me? So that’s not to say people are selfish but we all have our won self-interests at heart and when people are asking about who you are and what you do, they’re really saying what it is that you can do for me.

If that resonates with you and you agree with that, that means that you have to make a shift when you deliver a pitch and really when you deliver a conversation I mean because if you want your conversation to be meaningful, you have to start with the person who’s the most important which people don’t realize, they think that’s me. That’s myself. No. It’s actually the person right in front of you.

What I talk about in the book and I talk about it in seminars, workshops and in some of the videos is if you talk in first person, it feels like you’re reading from your LinkedIn profile.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah.

Chris Westfall
Right? I mean, which by the way, think about it, LinkedIn, it’s a career graveyard. I hate to say it, but it’s true. I mean —

Pete Mockaitis
That’s a controversial perspective. Do continue.

Chris Westfall
Well, it is, it is. But think about it. I mean, Pete, look 2011 was a great year but it isn’t here no more, you know what I mean?

Chris Westfall
What I was doing then isn’t as important as what it is that I’m doing right now and hopefully people who are listening to this, they’re not wondering, “Gosh! Where was Chris in 2009? What was his haircut? What did he look like?” They’re not thinking that. They don’t care. They want to know what can this guy do for me right now, and that is a universal truth I think that we all share. When people say tell me a little bit about yourself, it’s really a question of tell me what you might be able to do for me and what that means is that if you’re talking in first person, it doesn’t really spur a conversation until you understand how to make the second person first.

Chris Westfall
Yes, and the second person is yes, the second person is you.

Pete Mockaitis
You.

Chris Westfall
So using what I call “you language” and that’s kind of a skill to do that so that it doesn’t feel forced or inauthentic because if people feel like you’re pitching them, you’re dead. You’re instantly dead.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah.

Chris Westfall
So – go ahead, Pete.

Pete Mockaitis
It doesn’t like fun, for you to be on the receiving end of a pitch unless you’ve asked for it like I imagine, when I hear the word pitch, I usually think of okay the VCs are on the table.
Chris Westfall
Right.

Pete Mockaitis
They’re capitalists. They’re ready for it, or they’re Hollywood producers and they’re like, “All right, Chris, let me hear these ideas,” as opposed to just day in and day out. You don’t think of a pitch as something that I care to give or receive frankly.

Chris Westfall
Right, right. nobody wants to be sold something in this idea and that’s one of the things that I talk about in my book and the book is called “The NEW Elevator Pitch,” and one of the things that I lay out right from the very beginning is that this new elevator pitch, it’s not a pitch at all. It’s a conversation and that conversation has to focus on your listener. This idea of having a persuasive conversation at your fingertips isn’t just so that you can go I like the idea of get your script produced so that you can something to get your VCs to invest in you, but it’s also a conversation if you want to get a raise.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah.

Chris Westfall
You have to be able to be persuasive about the value that you create, even Pete, if you want to get a date.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay.

Chris Westfall
You have to be able to persuade him or her because people want to know why should I go out with you.

Pete Mockaitis
True.

Chris Westfall
That’s not a sales pitch unless.

Pete Mockaitis
I have many excellent attributes. I am —

Chris Westfall
Right, right. It may surprise you to learn that I’m a Gemini. I enjoy — what the hell? It has to be natural. It has to be authentic and people sometimes they will come to me and they go, “I want to learn to be a pitch man. I want to learn how to pitch and be someone other than who I am, and I’m, “Well, full stop right there.”

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah.

Chris Westfall
You have to be more of yourself, not less or not changed into something inauthentic because in this day and age if something falls, how are people going to respond to that? It’s about getting clear about your truth and being able to express that in a way that’s real, but it’s also you got to be concise because attention spans are short.

Pete Mockaitis
There are some nuggets there. Okay, so I hear authentic and real. I hear focus on the other person —

Chris Westfall
Yeah.

Pete Mockaitis
Make the second person the first person, if I heard correctly–

Chris Westfall
Yes.

Pete Mockaitis
And right now you’re talking about concise. Is there any sort of magic numbers associated with attention spans or neuroscience on that or how concise is concise and how should I think about that?

Chris Westfall
According to information that I read, the average attention span of an adult right now is 8 seconds.

Pete Mockaitis
Wait up. Sorry. What were you saying? I was not…

Chris Westfall
Very clever, my friend [laughter].

Pete Mockaitis
Eight seconds.

Chris Westfall
Eight seconds, right. We got the attention span of a refresh rate in the minute our phones go off or something, there are so many distractions, but I mean follow this through, you can’t – I mean you can’t tell your life story in 2 minutes. You can’t —

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah.

Chris Westfall
Let alone 8 seconds, so people think I’m going to have 8 seconds, so they start talking in these gimmicky little slogans and stuff like that, and that’s the answer either because gimmicky is gimmicky. One of the quotes that I love is from a guy named Edward R. Murrow, who’s a famous newsman from the 20th Century, and he said, “Our greatest obligation is not to confuse slogans with solutions.”

I think that so many times, it’s not about whipping out some mission statement that people can believe in because if you talk like you’re trying to create a poster that needs an eagle on it, nobody wants to hear that. Yeah, so what’s the right amount of time? I mean you really have 8 seconds to grab someone’s attention, and Pete, interestingly enough compare that to the average attention span of a goldfish —

Pete Mockaitis
All right.

Chris Westfall
Which is 9 seconds.

Pete Mockaitis
Wow!

Chris Westfall
Yeah. By the way I know that’s true because I read that on the Internet.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, that’s foolproof [laughter].

Chris Westfall
But seriously, our attention spans are short, and people have a story that cuts through the noise.

Pete Mockaitis
So I’m intrigued. I guess this 8-second bit, I mean maybe you had to get our attention in 8 seconds, but clearly we have read something for numerous minutes at a time or maybe even been captivated by an hour-long keynote or speech or something. I don’t know if you know the answer is neuroscience or whatever but I guess we keep renewing our attention for longer stretches. Is that how that works or —

Chris Westfall
True and we do renew our attention and that’s sort of the yardstick that I use is ask yourself if what it is that you’re saying would make someone else say tell me more.

Pete Mockaitis
Like, “Reese, tell me more, tell me more.” I like it.

Chris Westfall
Exactly, exactly [laughter]. You set it to music, but that’s how you know that you’ve got a conversation or a hit Broadway show as the case you may know. I digress, but yes that’s how you know that you’ve got a conversation is when people say tell me more, they are engaging and reengaging because that’s what a conversation is and quite frankly that’s what a partnership is whether it’s in business or in your life, it’s engaging and reengaging and maintaining that interest.

The way that you do that is by introducing the people to things that they have not heard before, things that are innovative, that are counterintuitive, that makes people say, “Wow! I never thought about it that way.” I mean because think about it, if you’re going to tell me what I already know about accounting or the legal system, or about diversity and inclusion at a Fortune 500 company. I mean if I already know those things, why would I listen? Why would I say tell me more?

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, absolutely. So, it’s intriguing. That’s kind of what gets me to click headlines, too.

Chris Westfall
Sure.

Pete Mockaitis
The Facebook newsfeed like, “Oh, really?”

Chris Westfall
Right, right, and so many times people don’t think about what’s intriguing, what’s new, what’s innovative. They just think about regurgitating what’s going on before, and then all of a sudden, it’s not a conversation. It feels like a history lesson. It’s the exact opposite of what you really want.

Pete Mockaitis
Man, there are so many golden nuggets here. Thank you. So maybe you could walk us through an example here like it’s example that I am in an office workplace environment. I need to get someone’s help, someone I don’t work directly, but we collaborate on some things here and there.

This isn’t directly in his or her line of responsibility, so they might not get a whole lot of your credit or your attention or whatnot, but nonetheless, I need them to help me out and I’m thinking this might feel like a time in which a pitch if you will —

Chris Westfall
Sure.

Pete Mockaitis
Is appropriate like I need to persuasively and essentially convey a case for, “Hey, help me out with these thing.” What are some things to keep in mind in this sort of everyday scenario?

Chris Westfall
Well, first of all, you want to start off by thinking about how it might be in their best interest to help you and having a reason why is vital. I read a book that I absolutely love. It’s called Start with Why by a guy named Simon Sinek, and those are —

Pete Mockaitis
Right.

Chris Westfall
You know Simon Sinek, right? The people who are listening might go why did you say the word is? It’ S-I-N-E-K, that’s his last name, Simon Sinek, and his book is called Start with Why. It’s all about how companies and individuals need to get down to their why, why do you do what you do. I mean it’s one thing to go to someone and say, “Hey, can you help me with this project, can you help me with something that’s maybe outside of your exact line of responsibility, but the first question they’re going to ask is why.

Pete Mockaitis
Right.

Chris Westfall
And the classic answer to the question why is “because.”

Pete Mockaitis
No [laughter].

Chris Westfall
So, think about —

Pete Mockaitis
Persuasive.

Chris Westfall
Well, it seems so simple, right? Of course that’s what you say but so many times, we don’t necessarily give a reason and a way that’s persuasive and when I say persuasive, I mean simple — the simplest messages are strongest. So —

Pete Mockaitis
All right.

Chris Westfall
You might try something like let’s say that this coworker, let’s say his name is Dave.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. That’s a bright name.

Chris Westfall
So, Dave, doesn’t seem like every time people come to you with something that’s outside of your responsibility, they never have a good reason why you should do it.

Pete Mockaitis
It sure does, Chris. It’s very upsetting to me.

Chris Westfall
Thank you, Dave [laughter]. Well, it may surprise you to know that (1) I am here to ask you for something, but (2) I’m not here to ask you like everyone else because – see what I just did there.

Pete Mockaitis
There’s the word because.

Chris Westfall
Yes, because I have an idea of how we might be able to work together on a project and it could help you to get some credit with your boss if you would be willing to spend just a few minutes working with me on getting some additional data that I need for a project that I’m working on. If you got a second, I can tell you more about it and I can tell you how we can use this to help you actually gain some traction with your boss and mine if you got a few minutes. Would you be willing to talk with me about that?

Pete Mockaitis
Uh-huh, that’s good. Okay, and —

Chris Westfall
So —

Pete Mockaitis
And so you have some control. You go ahead. I will note that for us if you will.

Chris Westfall
Well, you just hit it, that idea of control, the idea of a locus of control right that’s what psychologists say. It simply means if you give the person that you’re talking to the feeling that they have their hands on the wheel.

Pete Mockaitis
All right.

Chris Westfall
That they are the ones making a decision and the decision must be in some form or fashion in their best interest because otherwise why would they change, and if you go, “What? I didn’t know that I have real reason why it might be in his or her best interest to work with me on this project,” then your homework is not done. This voodoo will not help you, right?

Pete Mockaitis
Okay.

Chris Westfall
Because if it’s not somehow a mutually beneficial agreement, that’s a difficult – I don’t know if I have magic for that because mutually beneficial agreements are what you see on Shark Tank. I mean when Mr. Wonderful invests, he gives you his money because he expects there will be a return and both parties benefit, and ask me the same thing even in the workplace, even for something simple like having someone join you on a project, someone stepping outside of their field of responsibility. The other thing that I want to sort of highlight is that so many times, we find ourselves wanting to go into the details and dive into, you know, “Let me show you this 47-page slide deck that I created about…”

People just immediately check out because they’re bombarded and they’re like, “Oh, my gosh! Forty-seven slides! Are you kidding me?”

What have you done? What can you do to make what you need simple, easy to access, and if you go, it’s not simple, “It’s not simple. It’s 47 slides.” Then again, do your homework. If you want someone to say, “Tell me more,” don’t come at them with something that is repulsive, repugnant, overwhelming, too big of an ask because if your ask is too great, it doesn’t matter how you position the argument. If it’s a bridge too far, you’ll never get to your destination.

Pete Mockaitis
There’s so much I want to dig into there. I love that point about not jumping into the details. I see that a lot with engineering clients sometimes. It’s like they find it fascinating the data and they love to rip into the problem, which is really cool and fun. I love that, but sometimes I kind of stress the lesson about “answer first” which I learned from consulting a lot with clients is you just go ahead and say the answer and then we can dig into the supporting reasons and details later if necessary. Other people might already be on board like, “Yeah that sounds good. I dig.”

Chris Westfall
Right. I know exactly what you’re talking about. I work with a lot of engineering clients myself and they focus on the details because it is the details that makes the bridge stand, that makes the rocket go into space, that makes the train go down the tracks. I mean I get it. The details are so important but there’s an old quote, “The devil is in the details” and some people take that to mean, “That’s why we need to get into the details because that’s where the difficult stuff is when you go into the deepwater, so that we can…”

And I say, “Stop! Gunga Din,” and exactly what you’re saying, Pete. What happens if we start with the answer? What happens if we start with a solution? For many of my clients, they go, “Well, that feels simplistic! Well, that feels like the details are not there.” I’m not saying throw the details out, but just like what you were saying flip that funnel on its head. Instead of presenting 14 details to prove your point, make your point.

Pete Mockaitis
Right.

Chris Westfall
And then see who says tell me more. That way, you never answer a question that no one has asked.

Pete Mockaitis
It’s good. Lovely. So at this point, I want to talk about Shark Tank for a moment —

Chris Westfall
Uh-huh.

Pete Mockaitis
Because I’ve seen boy dozens and dozens of episodes the majority of the season or the series and talking to Mr. Wonderful, I always just hear him say, “Are you a cockroach? There’s nothing proprietary about this? I don’t want a royalty on it.” That’s kind of how I imagine him. So, tell me. You worked with a lot of Shark Tank groups who are pitching to these guys kind of like it’s probably the most glorified stage or arena I imagine in the world of pitching in terms of just like sheer viewership and kind of fun stakes for people, so what have you learned from engaging with these kinds of clients?

Chris Westfall
So many things. You know for folks who want to go on Shark Tank, each year Shark Tank sees about 40,000 applicants —

Pete Mockaitis
Wow.

Chris Westfall
For just over 100 spots actually. Just over 100 businesses will make it onto the show in this season, so that means you have I think I forget what the math is exactly but it’s less than a 0.03 percent chance of actually being on the show.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah.

Chris Westfall
What I have learned in my work with different clients is that you have to be able to boil your story down in a way that people can quickly say, “I get it. I want it. Tell me more.” Where people live and die is not the pitch. The pitch is simply what starts the conversation. There’s a construct you have to say how much you’re asking for, is there an equity stake, and all that kind of stuff. That’s the construct that’s set up by the producers, but where people live and die is really in the Q&A.

Pete Mockaitis
Absolutely.

Chris Westfall
And I know that you know a lot of folks on how to handle themselves in the Q&A and that’s really a big focus of the work is how do you make sure that you don’t get defensive and you’ve seen I’m sure folks on Shark Tank and when they get defensive, they die because it creates a feeding frenzy.

There are certain things, certain landmines that you try to help people to avoid, avoid paying yourself a salary or talking about how difficult it is that all the thing you’ve gone through because all the entrepreneurs up on the stage, they all go, “Yeah, we’ve been through a lot more than you have.”

Pete Mockaitis
Right.

Chris Westfall
“And shut up and don’t be greedy,” you know all those kinds of things. So it’s been just a fascinating journey for me and it’s actually allowed me to help folks in Canada into a show called Dragon’s Den.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah.

Chris Westfall
Well, I think Pete, I’m not exactly sure the origins, but I think it actually started maybe in England, maybe in Great Britain and the UK and Canada kept the name and we know that in the States as Shark Tank. This past year, this past season on Channel 10 down in Australia, they just introduced Shark Tank Australia, and I was very proud to help an entrepreneur, an importer in Australia to help him importing Mexican foods, also some things like that into Australia.

Chris Westfall
Yeah.

Pete Mockaitis
We all need that.

Chris Westfall
No kidding.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s fascinating absolutely and it seems like you got to know your customer acquisition cost. They always ask and people often don’t know it. You got to know that. But it’s hard to calculate that sometimes as you probably know running your own business, that figure.

Chris Westfall
Very true and the thing is that I don’t know that in any investor conversation, what the investors are really looking for when they ask you questions like what are your acquisition costs, what’s your marketing strategy, how much is the distribution expense it is going to cost you and all those kinds of things that people bombard you with, what they’re really asking and this helps people to avoid diving too much into the details, what they’re really asking is what is your thought process, what are you assumptions that form the basis of your answer.

People will invest on your assumptions if you can prove these four words, the next four words that come out of my mouth. Here they are: I’ve thought this through. And if investors and you can get a billionaire like Mark Cuban to look you in the eye and say, “Yes, you have, and here comes my money,” then mission accomplished and bravo! But even for folks that aren’t necessarily facing off with the sharks, I mean we still need to persuade others and influence others everyday for our career, for the things that matter to us, for our family, for our relationships. Persuasion is a fact of life, and that’s really what I enjoy about my work is helping people because if you can influence others, you can get some amazing things done.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s powerful, so tell me a little bit about maybe some mistakes people make when they
Re trying to be persuasive. I think we talked about key principles I guess. Just violating that, not following those principles is a mistake, but what are some things you see again and again and just kind of make you shake your head like no, no, not like that.

Chris Westfall
Have you ever heard somebody say the facts speak for themselves?

Pete Mockaitis
I have heard that.

Chris Westfall
Or the numbers speak for themselves, or the drawings speak for themselves, the blueprints speak for themselves. Pete, they never do.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay [laughter].

Chris Westfall
Which is why we’re talking.

Pete Mockaitis
All right.

Chris Westfall
To simply say the facts speak for themselves is making the mistake of taking that data is the same as insight.

Pete Mockaitis
All right.

Chris Westfall
If we could simply read things and get where we needed to go, well 100 percent of college education would be just read this book.

Pete Mockaitis
Right.

Chris Westfall
Right? But it’s in the discourse, it’s in the dialogue, it’s in the conversation, it’s when people take the time to say, “Look, I know Google gives you access to everything, but there is one thing you can’t Google, and that’s my experience and I can’t Google your experience either.” It’s that perspective, that unique perspective that will never show up in a search algorithm and that’s what really makes the difference, and I think it is either – I don’t know. Is it laziness?

It is the way we’ve been instructed but to sit there and say, “Look, the numbers speak for themselves,” is one of the biggest mistakes that I think people can make and I really encourage people to be not implicit – in other words the answers that you need are all there in the balance sheet, or on your resume, or in my LinkedIn profile. But to be explicit and to say here is the answer that I can provide for you and be explicit about it and put it in a personal context. It takes courage to do that, but that’s when the conversation really gets interesting and the alternative is quite frankly is a snore fest.

Pete Mockaitis
Right. That’s good. Other mistakes, other mistakes. The never speak for themselves. Don’t say it. What else do people do wrong?

Chris Westfall
I’ve met a lot of folks that just dive into the details, and they don’t understand a key point and I did this, I did this myself. I was meeting with a client for the very first time, and I met her and she goes, “Chris, I’ve heard so many good things about you. Tell me a little bit about yourself.”

I’m like, “Oh, my gosh! That’s a classic setup for an elevator pitch. That’s a classic elevator speech answer, so here’s what I do. I go, “Well, thank you for asking. I’m the US National Elevator Pitch Champion.” I didn’t say ta-da but it was kind of there subtly and this woman, bless her heart, she looks at me and she goes, “Wow! Chris, that is really great! What’s an elevator pitch?”

I was like, I mean I’m like I don’t know if you’ve ever had that happen to you where like the thing you’re focused on, the thing you’re proud of, you put that card in the table and people go I got nothing.

Pete Mockaitis
That totally happens to me. When I was working in a company like Mitt Romney, Consulting Magazine’s Best Place to Work years in a row, Time Magazine said elite field of management consultants. I mean nothing to you [laughter]. Yeah, I’ve been there.

Chris Westfall
It’s tough because when our personal stories mean so much to us.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah.

Chris Westfall
But we’re busy looking at the world through our own little microscope or portholes as the case maybe and we don’t see the people in front of us and the thing that people don’t realize is that you have to have a context for the conversation and in fact context trumps content. It doesn’t matter what you achieved. It doesn’t matter what you have accomplished. If you haven’t made a connection where your listener, the person right in front of you – when I say listener, it doesn’t necessarily mean someone who you’re talking with.

It can be someone who’s reading your email or receiving your Tweet for heaven’s sake, but it’s a person that you’re trying to reach. If they don’t have a context for the conversation, your accomplishments won’t matter. Like you were saying, Pete, I mean people may look down their nose at it. They may have a negative perception. Is that fair? Is that fair? I don’t know. I don’t think so, but it’s our job to make sure that they have the right perspective and shifting perspective is really the key to being persuasive and that starts when you create a context for that conversation.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s good, thank you. Well, I love to chat with you for 7 hours but to keep things zippy for everyone else, I want to shift gears into the fast faves segment here.

Chris Westfall
All right.

Pete Mockaitis
And so, some of these I think you’ve already said, so feel free to cite them again.

Chris Westfall
Okay.

Pete Mockaitis
But I want to see if you’re already strapped in and knock these out bit by bit.

Chris Westfall
All right.

Pete Mockaitis
Can you show us a favorite quote, something that inspires you again and again?

Chris Westfall
Trust that little voice in your head that says wouldn’t it be interesting if and then do it.

Pete Mockaitis
Love it. Can you tell me –

Chris Westfall
Go ahead. Sorry.

Pete Mockaitis
Folks, zippy, could you tell me about a favorite study like a piece of research or experiment that keeps you thinking or you refer to again and again?

Chris Westfall
The Ellen Langer study. Ellen Langer was a researcher at Harvard University did a study years ago into the nature of agreement and compliance. It’s something that I talked about in all my life presentations and it really shows us how to be persuasive, anything that talks about the psychology of agreement is always fascinating to me, so the Langer study is something that I reference quite a bit.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s good. How about a favorite book?

Chris Westfall
Well, there’s a couple of. Right now, I’m reading a book called Thinking Fast and Slow.

Pete Mockaitis
Kahneman?

Chris Westfall
Yes, yeah. Are you a fan of that book as well?

Pete Mockaitis
I have read some excerpts. It’s been on my list for a long time.

Chris Westfall
It’s fascinating. It’s all about sort of decision theory and again the psychology of how people process information, so I’m fascinated by that. I love a book called To Sell Is Human by Daniel Pink, and from a personal development standpoint, there’s a book called Somebody Should Have Told Us that is just a terrific book and I’ll find the author’s name here in just a second. I’m trying to find it, but Somebody Should Have Told Us, a terrific book and it’s really life’s lessons. I love that. I also love The Alchemist, you know that’s an old classic.

Pete Mockaitis
All right.

Chris Westfall
Sure.

Pete Mockaitis
Fabulous. Thank you. How about a favorite website or ideal online resource?

Chris Westfall
Ideal online resource? Let me come back to that one. The resource that I’m on all the time, Amazon.com.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah.

Chris Westfall
But that’s for suffering at the office. Let me come back to that. I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you an online resource that I absolutely love and is vital to my business is a video conferencing service called Zoom.

Pete Mockaitis
Zoom?

Chris Westfall
Yeah, and you can find them at Zoom.us. It’s a terrific organization, full disclosure. They are a former client of mine. However, I don’t get anything for saying their name. I say their name because I like them.

Pete Mockaitis
All right.

Chris Westfall
And they’ve really simplified the process of what I do, which is coach folks, conduct webinars all over the world, that kind of thing, and they make it very, very easy to do that kind of stuff, so Zoom.us. Check it out.

Pete Mockaitis
Thank you. How about a favorite habit in terms of a personal practice of yours that’s really been helpful?

Chris Westfall
When you speak as much as I do, the thing that I have found is that and it’s a little counterintuitive, it is vital for me to clear my head before I go in and talk to a group, to a coaching session, go and deliver a keynote and for me, finding ways to just decompress is vital. I’m not a big “I meditate” guy, but from time to time, I try to just get clear and kind of empty out my head a little bit and try to quite that voice inside my head, so that I can share my true voice with others, and so that means for me it’s things like working out. It’s things like making sure you get out in nature and just observe beauty and enjoy it even if it’s just as something as simple as a sunset or some of the trees around my house where I live can really make a difference for me. I hope it doesn’t sound too hippy-trippy or bizarre, or anything like that, but nature helps me to reset and I could not do what I do without the ability to actually empty out my head so that I can let some new ideas in.

Pete Mockaitis
No, not at all hippy-trippy. Thank you. How about any favorite tools whether that’s gadgets or software or hardware or thought frameworks you find using again and again?

Chris Westfall
one of the things that I love to use I have a tripod with a hookup so that I can record videos easily with my iPhone and that is a tool that I use quite extensively. I also have a lot of video production equipment because producing videos and recording things and sharing them with clients is an important part of my business. So the favorite tools that I have are related to video production and I just got a microphone for my iPhone so that I can even improve the audio quality, so that’s something that I’m working with right now. So my favorite tools are related to video production.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s good. I can talk for hours about this, but we’ll keep it moving in terms of iPhone recording things, but tell me about maybe a favorite time-saving trick or tactics happen you have that you’ve used to free up more time to focus on getting creative?

Chris Westfall
On my website, there’s an app that I use. It’s called vCita, and it’s V like Victor C-I-T-A, vCita.com, and if you visit my website, which is westfallonline.com, there it is – there’s the plug – but westfallonline.com and you’ll see that little app in the lower right hand corner. It’s a contact app because in my business, what I want to do since I help people with conversations is create a conversation. If people are interested in coaching or talking more, I offer a 30-minute session just to find out what’s going on and how I might be able to be of service has been an unbelievable asset to my business and people can actually go in. They can see my calendar online, so it syncs up with my Google Calendar. It knows where I am. You can’t see where I am, but you can see that I’m busy and you can select the time and that has been probably my number 1 tool, Pete, for just getting people to start the dialogue and vCita.com, that’s the tool that I use often.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s how I said, “Hey, Chris! I haven’t talked to you in a while. You’re free talk about, do the podcast?”

Chris Westfall
There it is.

Pete Mockaitis
It worked. Magic happening.

Chris Westfall
It’s unbelievable. I mean people find me from all over the world from all – I mean I watched your video. I heard you speak and it’s just fantastic and I recommend it very highly.

Pete Mockaitis
Beautiful. How about maybe a favorite truth bomb that when you say it, people tweet it so that you can see the pens clicking, they start taking notes? What’s the real gem that you find that really resonates with folks?

Chris Westfall
Success start with your story. When you change your story, you can change your results, not by creating some fiction but by understanding a story that is more authentic, more compelling, and more persuasive about yourself and about your goals. That’s how you move forward in your life.

Pete Mockaitis
Thank you. How about a favorite role model, a person that you look up to and take wisdom and inspiration from professionally?

Chris Westfall
Well, I enjoy the writing of Daniel Pink very much. I’m also a fan of Jeffrey Hayzlett. Jeffrey wrote the foreword to my first book, The NEW Elevator Pitch. He’s got a book out called Think Big Act Bigger, which is actually something he said to me in a conversation, sort of mentoring conversation. It’s really stuck in me this idea of think big act bigger to try to help create new things for yourself, so those are two folks that I really admire.

I also admire a guy by the name of Michael Neill, who is a friend of mine. We actually went to college together and he is an author and a speaker who talks about sort of more in a self-improvement kind of vein, but his latest book is sort of a life management book and it’s called the Inside Out Revolution, and he is someone that I really respected. His last name is Neill, N-E-I-L-L, Michael Neill, a good friend of mine.

Pete Mockaitis
Thank you. How about a favorite way to find you in terms of people want to learn more about you. it sounds like you got a system. Go to your website, go to vCita. What’s the best way to just to learn from you to get in touch?

Chris Westfall
Well, Pete, I hope people will not get in touch with me because I hate people. No, I’m kidding. I’m kidding. The best way to find me, I love people. I love working with people. It’s my favorite part of the job. That was sarcasm fount because that was what — but yes the best way to find me is my website, westfallonline.com. There are also some media channels. I love that people connect with me via LinkedIn. LinkedIn is an important platform for me. I mean you can find me on Facebook. You can find me wherever people are online or at least that’s where I try to be, but yeah that’s how people connect with me and if you’re interested, if you know what Pete and I have been talking about, there’s people out there listening, and they say, “Man, I’m going to talk to this guy about whatever, well westfallonline.com and check out that little contact button in the lower right-hand corner and set up a time for us to talk. I’ll be happy to chat with you.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s great. A favorite parting thought, challenge, call to action?

Chris Westfall
Keep telling your story, and if there are goals and things that you want for yourself, if you want to validate your investment in your education, if you want to achieve more, be paid more, be recognized for what it is that you are doing or what you’re going to do, make sure that you phrase your solution in terms of what you can do for others and it’s that focus on service and serving others that will serve you best.

Pete Mockaitis
Perfect, thank you. Well, Chris, this has been so much fun, a real treat our conversation. I really appreciate it. Have an awesome rest of the day.

Chris Westfall
Thanks, Pete. So great to talk with you. you’re one of the good guys. I appreciate you reaching out. It’s so great to talk to you. Thanks, Pete.

Pete Mockaitis
Bye-bye. Okay, well that will do it. Record button off.