1079: The Brain Science Behind Successful Change with Dr. Britt Andreatta

Pete Mockaitis
Britt, welcome!

Britt Andreatta
Thanks, Pete. It’s great to be back and have a chance to connect with you.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, yes, it’s good to be chatting. It’s been 500+ episodes, so it’s about time, I’d say.

Britt Andreatta
Yes, you’d been busy. I love all the stuff you’re doing. You seem to talk to everyone.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, thank you. Yeah, well, it’s funny, our LinkedIn has so much overlap with folks.

Britt Andreatta
I know.

Pete Mockaitis
And you’re up to stuff, too. So, you’ve got a second edition of Wired to Resist that is fresh, and we talked about your other books but didn’t go into much detail about Wired to Resist in our previous conversation, so it seems like now is the time. So, can you tell us, what’s this one all about?

Britt Andreatta
Yeah, so Wired to Resist, the first edition is all about change and the brain science of change, and why humans are kind of biologically wired to resist it. But in this new edition, I’ve just updated a lot of the data, I’ve added a lot of new content. Change has really accelerated in the last five years since I wrote the first edition. And so, we know that people are experiencing change fatigue more than they ever have, and that’s driving burnout.

We know that technology is just flooding pretty much every part of our lives with massive upheaval. And, of course, you know, the world changes and the environment creates pressure. So, I really wanted to update it so that it was relevant for what we’re all kind of navigating on a daily basis these days.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, so change, it’s a juicy topic. Can you tell us, in your work and research here, what’s among the most surprising and fascinating discoveries you’ve made about us humans and brains and change?

Britt Andreatta
Yeah, so the research has shown that when we go through change, there’s kind of four key brain structures that can get activated. So, one is the amygdala, and we tend to respond to change as potential danger until we get more information. So, our body always is a survival mechanism, and it’s going to assume the worst unless it gets more information.

So, the amygdala can get kicked off. That can be made worse depending on how transparent the leaders are and if they leave room for the brain to fill in a story. Because when we fill in a story, we always fill in layoffs and, “Losing my job and it’s going to be awful.” So, the amygdala is one.

The basal ganglia is the second one that has to do with habits. And when we do a behavior over and over again, our basal ganglia, turns it into kind of a low-energy package where we can run that behavior without thinking about it.

An example most people might know is driving a car. You know, the first time you learned to drive a car, you had to think about it a lot and concentrate on the act of driving. But after you do it a few times, the basal ganglia is what turns it into something that you can do without thinking about the act of it anymore.

And this relates to change because most change is asking people to develop new habits of some kind, new ways of speaking or behaving, and that’s going to be awkward and uncomfortable at first until we get enough repetitions, magic number is around 40 to 50, for the basal ganglia to turn it into something that we don’t have to think about.

But even more important, change is often asking people to leave a habit that they already know, that’s well-grooved with hundreds, if not thousands of repetitions. And so, the reason why so many change initiatives fail is because people don’t actually make the shift in their behavior that has to go along with what that change is asking of them. They stay stuck in the old habits. So that’s important to pay attention to.

The third brain structure is the entorhinal cortex, and this is the part of the brain that acts as your GPS system, how you get home every day without having to plug it into a map. Your brain has built a map. And what we know is that if we do a change that requires people’s physical space, where they work, this part of the brain has to build new maps. It can and it will, but it requires some extra cognitive energy.

It also maps social space. So, the entorhinal cortex also is how we kind of pay attention to who has power, who we have affinity with. So, if you ever re-org a team or merge two departments together, you’re messing with people’s maps, mental, physical, and social maps. So, again, our brain is built to do this, but it can then contribute to the exhaustion or change fatigue that people feel.

And then the one that really blew my mind, Pete, and I kind of am always excited to share this because I was like, “No way.” We have a part of our brain, it’s called the habenula, whose job it is to prevent us from failing in the future. So, how it works is it uses chemical guardrails. And the example I usually give people is think back to our hunter-gatherer days. If I walked down a path and found food or water, my brain would reward me with serotonin and dopamine.

And if I went down another path and I didn’t find anything, the habenula would activate. And when it’s active, it cuts off, it restricts your serotonin and dopamine, meaning I don’t get the feel-good chemicals. And when I come to that fork in the road the next day, I just psychologically feel like I want to go down the first path.

What’s amazing is it can be so powerful as to suppress your motor neurons, meaning it’s hard to walk down the wrong path. So, what does that have to do with change? Well, change always has failure in it. Very rarely does change unfold on time, on budget, the way it’s supposed to. And so, leaders are accidentally coding change as failure, which is increasing people’s resistance to the next change that’s announced.

So, once we kind of understand these four brain structures, it really gives managers and leaders some real clear actions that helps them both design and announce change and support change in ways that are going to then increase adaptability and resilience of their people.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, that’s so much fascinating stuff. Thank you. So, this habenula, it’s designed to keep us from failing again, and it can sort of shut us down with less serotonin, less dopamine, and less sort of motor neuron stuff. So, then our motivation, and maybe our even ability to walk to a spot is hampered.

And I guess that’s intriguing because I think about a young Pete Mockaitis versus a current Pete Mockaitis, and I guess I had my share of disappointments, failures, rejections, traumas, bummers. And it’s interesting how I really do find, I don’t want to be a pessimistic negative Nellie, but I really am like a different person, especially entrepreneurially as opposed to opportunities.

Like, I used to think, “Oh, that’s so awesome. It’s totally going to work.” It’s like, “Well, I’ve seen enough things not work to think, ‘Hmm, it probably won’t work. Am I still interested, eyes wide open, knowing it’s more likely not to work than work?’” And so, it kind of takes a pretty huge upside. Like, “Well, it might not work, but if it does, it’ll be so huge. Yes, it’s still worth it.”

So, I’ve become, I guess, a shrewd, discerning, grumpier evaluator of opportunities of all sorts, not even business-y things, but just like a social opportunity, it’s like, “Ah, it’s probably going to be hot and crowded and loud and, aargh.” And so, I’m not just a grump. I’ve just learned some things.

Britt Andreatta
Yes. So, let me distinguish two things. One is there is such a thing as wisdom, right? Like, as we live life, our experience shapes our opinions and our beliefs, and we’re like, “Huh, you know, this hasn’t worked out the last three times. Maybe I should stop and pause and consider this.” Right? So, as we get on in life experience in years, I think there’s some natural wisdom that can sometimes also creep over into cynicism or skepticism.

But the other thing that’s in play, and I wrote a different book on this, Wired to Become, which is also about kind of our sense of finding purpose and meaningful work. During the pandemic, we all not only went into change fatigue, but we went well beyond that into diagnosable burnout. And the workforce, the global workforce is still showing really high numbers of burnout, even today.

And why I mentioned this is that burnout makes us, it kind of seeps joy away. So, things that used to make you excited, don’t make you excited anymore. It can make you apathetic and much more cautious and want to stay kind of home and in your safe space. So, then my challenge to you would be, “Are you being cautious about change? Or are you also experiencing some of the effects of burnout that many of us have not yet fully recovered from?”

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I love your pro tips here. If we find ourselves in the category of an overactive habenula, what is to be done?

Britt Andreatta
Yeah. So, from a leader perspective, let me first talk about change. The advice I give is that when we realize that, “Oh, this habenula is going to be paying attention to failure,” it really changes how we talk about change with our teams.

So, before I give this training, a lot of ways leaders approach it is if the change initiative is over budget or behind schedule, they come into the staff meeting and are like, “Oh, my gosh, you guys, we’re over budget. We’re behind schedule. What are we going to do?” And the habenula just hears failure, failure, failure.

Where, if instead that manager came into the meeting and said, “All right, you guys, high fives all around. Since our last meeting, you’ve done A, B and C,” and we acknowledge effort and progress. Now the brain gets the reward for having participated, leaned into change, done the things they were supposed to do. And then you can follow it up with, “But we’re over schedule and behind budget. What are we going to do about it?”

And so, we tend to kind of just focus on the negative and we’re accidentally making people more change-resistant by not first acknowledging effort and progress. You really want to do that, particularly around change, and then you can focus on “What do we need to fix?” So, in the work setting, I would suggest that.

In terms of burnout, really, the only recovery from burnout is two things: rest, making sure you’re getting enough rest; and playing more, because we’re like every other species. Species don’t play unless they feel safe. And we lost access to all of our forms of play for a good three years there. And many of us have not gotten back in the habit of going back and playing.

And what’s dangerous about burnout is, because it makes you so apathetic, you’ll be like, “Oh, yeah, I could go to that dinner out with friends and a movie. Eh, I don’t think I will.” Like the apathy keeps you from going, but, really, it’s playing and getting the reward of the fun with your friends and stuff that can pull you out of burnout.

So, rest and play are things that we all should dial up more in our lives. And then play gives you all kinds of other benefits. People who play frequently are much more innovative and creative. They’re generally happier. Play unlocks all kinds of good things about our sense of self.

Pete Mockaitis
Now you said we lost our access to play, and I guess I’m thinking there’s a universe of online entertainment, screen-related fun to be had from YouTube to TikTok, to video games and more, whatever your personal online entertainment poison of choice may be. When you say play does it exclude these? Or, is there optimal forms of play?

Britt Andreatta
No, it’s a great question. And my husband’s an avid gamer, so I appreciate gaming and online entertainment as definitely a legitimate form of play. However, during the pandemic, we were living in a heightened state of survival, right? We have a lot of amnesia about this, but we literally lived through a significant global trauma.

And we were so busy just trying to get through it. Many people overworked. They lost access to their normal ways of play. We couldn’t go on vacation. We couldn’t go to a water park. You couldn’t go to a movie theater. You didn’t go out to dinner with friends. And so, we all kind of pulled back and recreated lives that worked during that time. But for many folks, they haven’t re-fluffed back out to some of those activities.

So, that’s what I mean by play. Like, even though things are open now, there’s still a lot of people that don’t go do those things because they’ve just kind of gotten out of the habit of it or they’re biologically haven’t realized that they need to attend to the fact that this apathy is impacting them. But absolutely, online sources of entertainment can be great as long as you’re not doom-scrolling too much.

And if you’re using it to numb out feelings or avoid social connections, then maybe it’s not so healthy. But I think all of us kind of know when we’re using it to avoid life, versus we’re using it for enjoyment and entertainment. So, it’s something to pay attention to.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, that’s handy. Thank you. And so, onto change, you mentioned that when we have an ambiguous story, “It’s danger. It’s like guilty until proven innocent.” And so, I guess I just want to cover that in terms of change, like people say, “Oh, people don’t like change. Change is uncomfortable. Change is hard.” And I think there are there are times when, and maybe they’re rare, relatively speaking, but I want to get your hot take on when there’s a change that just feels clearly wonderful.

For example, someone says, “Hey, Britt, you know what, we realized there’s a couple key strategic roles where we are underpaying relative to the marketplace, you and others in similar roles are going to be receiving a 20% raise effective next pay period and ongoing.”

That just sounds clear and wonderful. Are our brains cool with that or do we still have a problem with that too?

Britt Andreatta
That’s a great question. I mean, that particular example is, really, you’re not changing my title, you’re not changing my job, you’re not changing who I’m reporting to, you’re just changing the amount of money that goes in my bank account at the end of the day for the work that I’ve done. So, I think most people would respond to that type of change with happiness.

We can really think about people’s motivation for change on kind of two axes. One is “Did we want the change? Yes, or no?” and “Did we choose the change? Yes, or no?” So, getting a raise without having to do more work, that’s a yes and yes. I will be running toward that and feeling good about it.

But if you also said to me, “Hey, Britt, we’ve identified that you’ve got some amazing talent. We’re going to give you a 20% raise, but you need to relocate to a different city or a different country and you got to take on 50% more work,” “Oh, I didn’t choose that. I’m not sure even I want that.” And, of course, then if it’s stuff, a no and a no, I’m going to resist and dig my heels in. So, we really have to look at people’s motivation for change.

There is some change that people love and run toward. And we also have to remember the more you move up in an organization, the more leaders tend to be entrepreneurial and tend to be more change-comfortable because they’re deciding and driving the change. But when you’re on the receiving end of change and you don’t have a lot of agency in that, that’s where you’re going to see more of the resistance.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, that’s good and clear. All right. Well, so then let’s run through it. If we want to have a change happen successfully, what are our top dos and don’ts?

Britt Andreatta
Okay. When we’re on the receiving end of change, there’s a few things that we can do that’s really about empowering ourselves. In an ideal world, the people above us would be designing great change and leading us with support and being transparent, but sometimes that’s not the case. So, part of it is like really just owning your own experience and asking questions.

We are more motivated for change if we can find a, “What’s in it for me? How can I make this valuable for me? How can I turn this into an opportunity to learn or grow or gain a new skill or work with a person that I like?” So, finding a sense of purpose in it.

If we can partner up with people that we like or care about and turn it into a team experience, so we’re not doing it alone, that can be helpful. Gamifying it, and this is why so many apps are valuable. I’m actually about to travel to Europe, so I hopped on Duolingo and I’m getting my little owl points every day as I complete my language lessons.

Pete Mockaitis
“You have to keep the streak or we will stop you, ceaselessly.”

Britt Andreatta
Right, I’m on my streak. But some of these things help us. Our brain loves a reward, but it almost doesn’t care what the reward is. So, that little “b-bing” that I hear when I complete some lessons and the little badge that I get, my brain is kind of happy with that. So, we can find ways to gamify stuff. And we can also lean into self-care.

Change is stressful, and so it’s important, when you’re going through a lot of change, to pay attention to, “Am I getting good quality sleep? Am I eating better? Am I, maybe, playing more to counterbalance the stress?” And then mindfulness, it turns out the brain is uniquely built for a mindfulness practice. It really just does amazing things. It can physically shrink the amygdala and make it less reactive in as little as a few weeks of five minutes a day. I mean, the studies on mindfulness are mind-blowing.

So, these are all the ways people who are on the receiving end of change can have agency, including saying, “No, I don’t want to go on this change. This is not something I want to be part of,” and acknowledging that you want to maybe find a different role or a different organization or whatever. So, those are kind of my hot tips for any of us who are on the receiving end of change.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, that’s good. Thank you. And let’s talk about mindfulness. I tell you what, I have gone back and forth with mindfulness in terms of I’ll read a journal article about, oh, people used Headspace for 10 weeks or 10 days, I think, it was, and they saw an increase in their heart rate variability. It’s like, “Oh, I can measure my heart rate variability. I can get Headspace. Game on. Let’s do it.”

And so, then I do it and I don’t think, I’m not sure if I am getting the results or benefits or not, and then I’m not sure if something is wrong with me, or if I didn’t do it right, or what’s the deal. So, do you have any pro tips for folks who think, “You know, I’ve tried this mindfulness stuff, Britt, and I don’t know if it’s for me”?

Britt Andreatta
Yeah, absolutely. So, let’s define mindfulness. Mindfulness is any practice that allows you to stay present in the moment and not go in the past and worry about what happened yesterday, or what Bob said, or what Marie is doing, and keeps you from going into the future and worrying about what’s going to happen tomorrow, and what Bob might say, and what Maria might do, right? So, mindfulness is really the act of being present in the now.

And mindfulness can be meditation, but it can also be doing the dishes. It can be an adult coloring book. It can be fly fishing. It can be gardening. It’s something that kind of puts you in that relaxed state, that flow state, where you’re not really worried about time. and you’re just really present.

However, when most of us try mindfulness, we are, like, sitting down and we’re using an app or we’re listening to a guided meditation. And what’s going to happen is I start and I concentrate on my breathing, and then, “Oh, my gosh, I got to hit the grocery store, and I got to pick up that thing, and I’ve got to remember to call my dad.”

All mindfulness is, is going, “Oh, wait, I’m supposed to be present right now.” And then going back to focus on my breathing. And that might last 10 seconds before I go, “But I really need to call my dad and I got to get to the grocery store. Oh, wait, I’m supposed to be meditating.” So, really, mindfulness is knowing that your brain is going to spin off, and noticing that it has and bringing it back.

And the more you practice that, two magical things happen. One is the periods of being able to stay present get longer. But the most important part is you start to just observe yourself, “Oh, wait, I’ve started having thoughts again.”

And that ability to kind of take a third-person perspective becomes the magic sauce that allows, and this is why people who are long-time practitioners of mindfulness, they have just a calmer state, and when something comes and disrupts them, their reaction is lower than non-meditators or non-mindfulness people, and then they come back to stasis pretty fast.

And it’s because you can go, “Oh, instead of I’m freaking out right now,” you kind of watch yourself freaking out. So, it allows you to distance yourself from your emotional reactions to the world and that is truly the secret sauce of mindfulness.

However, you could meditate 10 minutes a day, and if the rest of the day you are doom-scrolling and putting your amygdala into high-alert mode, you’re not going to see as many benefits as someone who maybe isn’t doing that to themselves. So, it’s all in context. And I would say if you’re not seeing the benefits, play with different forms.

Some people love doing yoga. Some people love doing some kind of hands-on crafting. Some people love doing something really physical. Find your jam.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, yeah, that’s handy I guess it’s just not as, if we think of mindfulness as a practice, an exercise that strengthens a capability, it’s just a little fuzzier as compared to, say, strength training in the gym, in which I say, “Ah, I was unable to lift this 205-pound weight four times last time, but this time I did it six times. Incontrovertible evidence, strength has increased. Rejoice. Celebrate. It feels good.”

As opposed to, with the mindfulness stuff, it’s like, “I guess I’m kind of noticing me doing my thing more often, and that’s kind of handy. So, I guess it worked?” Question mark.

Britt Andreatta
Yeah, you know, it is a little more amorphous, particularly if you’re not measuring it in some kind of tangible way.

Pete Mockaitis
Ooh, can I measure it in a tangible way?

Britt Andreatta
Yes, you can measure it.

Pete Mockaitis
Tell me.

Britt Andreatta
Well, I mean, just kind of like you would pay attention to your weights and your reps, you could pay attention to how long you’re staying in that totally present zone. How many seconds was that? And how many times did you come back to it? Like, if you decided to note it down, you could pay attention to it and then measure your progress.

But oftentimes, with mindfulness, we don’t really track it. So, then the other way is to kind of take a little bit of a temperature of yourself, and then four weeks from now after you’ve significantly worked on this practice, see how you feel four weeks. But the day to day, it’s not going to always be noticeable, right? So, I do think it can be a little amorphous.

The other thing I think there’s been a disservice to is how we portray mindfulness and meditation in the media. I think a lot of people feel like, “Oh, I’ve got to sit cross-legged and burn some incense. And if I do this thing, I’m going to have some kind of spiritual awakening that will be mind-blowing.” That’s not what it looks like.

It’s just about, “Oh, I noticed that I’m having thoughts again. Come back to the moment. I noticed I’m having thoughts again. Come back to the moment.” And that’s all it is. And so, that really demystified it for me and made it feel a lot more accessible. And then I wasn’t holding myself to some standard, like, “Wow, nothing spiritual happened to me. I guess I failed,” right?

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Good. Thank you. All right. So, that’s at the individual contributor, perhaps, level. Let’s hear about it at the management and executive levels.

Britt Andreatta
Yeah, let me start with executives. Executives are always living in the future, right? Their job is to look down the road five, 10 years and think about what we need to do to keep this organization thriving and surviving into the future. And so, they spend time looking at the data and they work hard on coming up with decisions.

And I think one of the things that’s hard about being an executive is once you announce change, you kind of expect everyone to stand up and cheer, but that’s not what happens. Humans first go into this very grumbly state where we first worry about all the things that could go wrong and what we might not like. And there’s all these predictable kinds of grumbly emotions that happen. And many executives are really surprised by that.

And so, one of the things when I’m working with an executive team is I remind them that, “Hey, even if you’re a perfect change leader, the best you can do is kind of shorten the duration of the grumbly period and maybe lessen the amount of drama, but it’s never going to be zero because humans are going through a biological process. They’re not being difficult. They’re being human. And this is how humans deal with change.”

We first worry, assume the worst, kind of freak out. And then we work our way through those emotions. And then we can start to kind of come over this tipping point where we can look to the future, maybe what could be good about it, what I might gain from it. And so, part of being a good leader is planning for that.

And I think a lot of executives make the mistake of really focusing on the change, “It’s structural, it’s factual. We got a plan. We’re going to execute it.” But the people have to go through the change. And so, you’ve got to plan for this emotional upheaval, the amount of time it takes to form new habits, how you articulate this message. There are things you can do to make it easier, but on some level, you just have to go through this period of transition.

And I have found, when organizations spend more time focusing on the people side of it, “How are we going to get people through? How are we going to support them? Let’s be ready for the grumbling. How are we going to handle that?” then change goes much better.

The second thing that I talk to executives about is that, as an organization grows, it’s going to start to have more functions and heads of those functions, so facilities is doing its thing to maximize the business, and marketing is doing its thing, and HR is doing its thing, and IT. And pretty soon, all these really great changes are getting launched, but nobody is playing air traffic controller.

And so, there needs to be a position where someone’s looking at, “Okay, all of these are great, but what’s launching when?” Because oftentimes, change fails because a team just got inundated by six fantastic changes all in the same month, and they couldn’t participate. They couldn’t get on board with all of them.

And then they do the handoff to the managers. So, let’s talk about the managers. They’re responsible for taking their direct reports through change, but they very rarely get to decide the change or design the change, and so they’re kind of handed something and told, “Make it work.” And they may not have that skillset.

So, part of it is train your managers. Leading change is a skill. It can be learned and improved like any other skill. But also, you want to arm them with what they need to be successful. They need to know the why. They need to know what the milestones are. They need to know what to do if it goes off the rails. So, you need to make sure your managers are armed with the actual tools they need to make this change happen.

And, oftentimes, managers, they don’t know the why. They don’t know what is going to happen. And so, when they get questions from their employees, they don’t have the answers. They can’t participate in supporting the employees moving through the change. But that’s easily fixed.

So, with some good information and tools, the whole ecosystem is now working together. And, boy, it sure makes a difference in terms of changes going successfully, but also the workforce getting much more comfortable and capable and resilient with change.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, I like that. Thank you. Well, now I’m thinking about, I remember something that just really annoyed me, so maybe you could, geez, this was 20-ish years ago. But an organization I volunteered with, it was near and dear to my heart, we conducted youth leadership seminars for folks who were high school sophomores. And it was a lot of fun and kind of where I kind of grew up in the people development-y world, which has shaped much of my career sense.

And then there was a change, and it was a change that was more economically driven. They were short on their dough, and their fundraising wasn’t going as well. And so, they shifted the experience. Whereas, before it was free for the individual attendees in their schools. Then it shifted into a fee-for-service model, and basically everyone had to then pay.

Usually, the schools paid, or if you’re volunteer team on the ground, they had like dozens of affiliates. It was really sharp. They could get that fundraise to offset stuff. So, it was a big change and it really affected, really, the kind of core vibe of the organization, and large swaths of volunteers who’d poured their heart and soul into things for many years just quit, including some folks that I really admired.

And so, I was kind of torn. I didn’t like it, but I still thought, “Well, you know, it’s still, even at this fee, I think the school should pony it up because they’ll be enriched from their leader returning. And they might not see it that way, and it might change the composition, and it’s not as good. I don’t like it as much, but I’ll stick with it.” And so, I did.

But what really got me angry was, like, the leadership, whenever we raised these concerns and they were, like, the pitchforks were out with the volunteers saying, “Ah, this is terrible. This is not the spirit of this thing, dah, dah, dah.” I felt, I don’t know if the words gaslighting or patronizing, but I felt like the message for the executive was, “Hey, well, you know, we all know that change can be difficult.”

And I was like, “We’re not saying we’re annoyed that you’re changing the software program and we have to relearn a new thing with its quirks after years of knowing the old software program. We’re saying that, fundamentally, the heart of the thing is now different in a way that’s objectively worse.” So, that response, I found disgusting. I hate to be so judgmental. But I did. That’s how I felt at the time.

Britt Andreatta
But you’ve been thinking about this for 20 years, Pete. I can tell, yeah.

Pete Mockaitis
And it just seemed like, I don’t know what the optimal response is from the leadership of this volunteer organization, but it’s not that, “Hey, change is hard.” So, help us out, change expert. What should they have done?

Britt Andreatta
Right. Well, so first of all, what I’m hearing in this story is that they, and who knows, we weren’t in those rooms, right? It may have been that this organization would have had to shut their doors unless they went to this pay-to-play model, right?

Pete Mockaitis
Quite possible.

Britt Andreatta
But so, what I’m hearing is that they had a problem and they solved it kind of in closed doors. They didn’t involve some of the stakeholders and say, “Hey, what do you like most about this place? What should become the sacred piece that we don’t touch? What do you not care about?” They would have gotten better data if they had done that.

It sounds like they didn’t message this really well. So, they didn’t really take you guys through the why of it. And my guess is you would have felt differently if they had said, “Hey, we care about the spirit of this place, too. And this is the only option to even keep this spirit alive. Otherwise, we’re going to have to close the doors. Like, that’s where we’re at.”

So, there’s transparency and how you message things. But sometimes leaders do make those hard choices and they don’t really care if you get on board or not, take it or leave it, be on board or not. I think sometimes leaders, though, make a mistake and they don’t realize how bad that’s going to be. I think we’re kind of watching that with Southwest right now. The CEO made a big change in one of their core values, and the whole reasons why people chose that airline.

Pete Mockaitis
Is it the refunds or bags fly free?

Britt Andreatta
Bags fly free. Yeah, it was like a big thing that a lot of people were like, “Hey, this is the only reason I fly Southwest is because of these financial benefits,” right? And not only that, the policy was announced, none of the staff were giving any messaging. So, now they’re dealing with angry customers upset and they don’t have any messaging around it.

And then it went viral, so then the president, or the CEO made a video, but in his video, he only talked about the financial gains for the company and the shareholders. He didn’t talk about the travel experience. He didn’t talk about the values, the “What’s in it for me?” for the staff, for the travelers. And it was a real missed opportunity, but essentially the company violated a core value that was part of its value proposition. And they’ve lost lots of customers.

Target has done the same thing around the DEI initiatives, that by choosing to shutter that, there’s been several month-long boycotts of Target right now, and they’re just losing money, hand over fist, where Costco leaned into their DEI and they’ve gained a lot of those Target customers. So, part of it is, when you’re making change, you have to be savvy to the fact, “Is this change related to a core tenet of our identity or what people believe in about us?” Because if you’re bringing change there, you better tread very thoughtfully and very carefully.

And if you’re just going to push it through anyway, then expect to lose a lot of people. And only your analyses can let you know if you can survive that or not, right, and get to the other side of it.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah. Well, actually, you’re highlighting something for me in terms of, like, my complicated feelings about the private equity industry as a whole. Because, theoretically, you know, I’m a finance major. I worked at Bain & Company, not Bain Capital, but I’m into efficiencies.

And, theoretically, I think it makes sense. Oh, yeah, someone buys a company and they’ve got some great ideas and networks, economies of scale, smart ideas, winning systems and approaches, “And away we go. Make it better, better, better.”

And yet other times, it’s like there’s nothing innovative at all happening here. It’s just like, “I found a clever, legal, financial way to shift money from you to me, and I’m going to do that. And, oh, oopsie. Oh, you’re bankrupt now? Well, that’s too bad. I’ve already exited. So, on to the next.”

And so, I think that’s, and, hey, every firm is different. Every human is different. But I think that, if you’re hyper-focused on a narrow goal of, “Let’s get a huge financial return within a few years from the acquisition of this organization,” then the deck is a little stacked against you in terms of your probability of having a misstep and overlooking an important dimension of the heart, soul, vibe, values of what makes a place special, you might overlook that. You’re at high risk of doing so.

Britt Andreatta
Yeah, and I actually dedicate an entire chapter to one of the four drivers of change is human consciousness. And what I think some people are missing, but there’s massive evidence around us, is that human consciousness has been continuing to increase. We used to be very feudal and tribal and fighting against each other. And then we went to really strict hierarchies and stuff.

But where we are in this kind of evolution of human consciousness is really understanding the interconnectedness of everything, that you have to treat your employees well. You have to treat the planet well. That there’s a commitment to not just making money for money’s sake, but doing so in a way that keeps everyone whole.

And what’s really interesting is the younger generations are very committed to this. Millennials, Gen Z, Gen X, to some extent, even the youngest littles these days are really committed to people and planet. And they vote with their dollars, they vote with their voices, they are not willing to kind of listen to corporate BS.

So, there really is a call to action that leaders, particularly executives, need to find a way to build purpose-driven workplaces, that just focusing on profit for profit’s sake is not going to land well anymore. You won’t be able to attract and retain those employees. You won’t be able to attract and retain those customers.

So, there’s a shift happening and it got accelerated by the pandemic. People were already starting to think this way, but when we’re faced with our mortality and we lose people, it really clarifies your values, which is why we saw so many people change careers and really think about where they wanted to be.

So, I think we’re in a very messy state of human evolution right now, but I think it’s a really awesome one because we’re being called to develop practices and ways of doing things that are much more aligned with being connected, taking care of everyone.

That’s not to say you can’t make a pretty penny in there somewhere, but when you are sacrificing people’s wellbeing for the pretty penny without thinking about it, that way of leadership is not going to last long anymore.

And we’re seeing the last kind of breaths of that gasp around the world, but nothing goes off into the sweet good night without a little bit of a tussle. So, we’re seeing some tussling happening.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Thank you. Well, Britt, tell me, anything else you want to make sure to mention before we hear about some of your favorite things?

Britt Andreatta
The one thing I would say is change fatigue is real and to be mindful of how you’re feeling at, you know, if you feel overwhelmed with change, like it’s something to pay attention to. One study by Gartner found that, today, the average employee is experiencing 13 or more enterprise-wide changes per year compared to two in 2016.

Like, that’s how much it’s gone up is that, is that because every part of the business is driving change and now because of new technologies like AI, all of them are having to keep up with that. We literally just have change launching around us all the time.

And so, if you’re feeling like, “Oh, my God, it’s just so much change,” you’re normal. It is an appropriate perception that you’re having. There is a lot more change than there used to be. And if you have not yet recovered from the intensity of the pandemic and really kind of healed your burnout, you’re going to have less capacity.

And this is, honestly, the number one thing I’m working with executives right now. They’re trying to drive big change in their organizations and employees are just responding very slowly or with a lot of resistance, as are their customers. And so, this mismatch is causing a lot of difficulty in workplaces right now, but we will get to the other side of it. We just have to pay attention to it.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Now could you share a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Britt Andreatta
You know, I always love that Margaret Mead quote that I’m going to butcher it a little bit, but it basically says, “Never underestimate the power of a few people to make change. In fact, it’s the only thing that ever has.”

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And a favorite study or experiment or bit of research?

Britt Andreatta
You know, I talked about the habenula, that one blew my mind. The other one that really blew my mind, and I talk about this in my book on teams, Wired to Connect, is that the human brain experiences exclusion, is the same as physical pain. That excluding someone is registered in the body the same as hitting someone.

And to the point where the researchers were kind of blown away, so they did a whole bunch of other studies, like, “What happens if you are excluded by people you don’t like?” It didn’t matter. “What if we pay you to be excluded?” It didn’t matter. It just kept activating the pain centers. And so, then they thought, “Huh, I wonder if pain pills will make a difference?” And it did.

Taking a pain pill makes the feeling of exclusion go away, just like it makes the feeling of pain go away. And I think this is what’s contributed to the opioid epidemic is that people will go on pain pills for legitimate injuries, and they are getting a break from their social pain, but we’re not talking about it. So, when it’s time to come off that medicine, folks are now faced with a whole lot of feelings coming up and they’re not necessarily supported in that transition.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And a favorite tool?

Britt Andreatta
You know, I am a PowerPoint junkie, and I use PowerPoint for everything. I use PowerPoint to mood-board when I’m decorating a room. I use PowerPoint to, literally, that’s how I write a book is I PowerPoint it first, and then I write the chapters from the PowerPoint. It just gives me these tiles that I can move around and duplicate and organize in different ways. So, it’s my favorite way to organize my thinking and it has become, all of my books started as PowerPoints.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And a favorite habit?

Britt Andreatta
This came from some research, too, around kind of the neuroscience of insight and innovation. And it really comes from the synapses of the brain being able to connect in unexpected ways. And we cannot do that when we’re focused and thinking about something. It happens when we take the break. So, I have now learned that when I feel like, “Ugh, I can’t make progress anymore,” I used to feel bad taking a break, like, “Oh, I’m stepping away. I need to keep working at this.”

But now I know that break equals breakthrough. And so, when I step away from it, I fully enjoy the break and I know my brain is still working on it in the background. And now I’ve had enough experiences of that happening that I’m really confident that I can step away from something and it’ll have the breakthrough it’s supposed to have at some point.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And is there a key nugget you share that really seems to connect and resonate with folks, they quote it back to you often?

Britt Andreatta
We are wired for three things. We’re first wired to survive. So, big parts of our biology are dedicated to helping us live another day. And that’s food, water, shelter, the thing we think of.

But when things are fine, it really shows up in the workplace because it’s our paycheck that allows us to buy food, water, shelter. So, we can accidentally really activate survival stuff for people in the workplace if we’re not mindful.

Second thing is we’re wired to belong. Big parts of our biology are dedicated to helping us cooperate and read emotions in other people and be connected to folks and feel authentic.  And then perhaps our deepest hunger or need is we’re wired to become our best selves. We really hunger to live up to our potential. And that should change. As you achieve your potential for where you are now, then there’s a new potential for you to reach for.

But we really do want to learn and grow and become better. And so, if you remember nothing else about humans – survive, belong, become.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. And if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Britt Andreatta
Fantastic. You know, I’m on LinkedIn. So, it’s my name, Britt Andreatta. That’s also my website, BrittAndreatta.com. I have a podcast out now called The Brain Aware Podcast. My company is Brain Aware Training, and it also has its own website. So, any of those ways are good places for people to find me and see what I’m up to. And, yeah, I love connecting with people, so please reach out.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, thank you. And do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks looking to be awesome at their jobs?

Britt Andreatta
You know, as we talk about change, treat change like a skill. It’s a skill like anything else. Like using software, like time management, you can become really great at change. And I think it’s a skill that we all need to have because, as much as humans are resistant to change, change is the constant that we have to navigate over and over again. So, by becoming better at it, you’ll make your life so much easier for the rest of your life in all kinds of settings.

Pete Mockaitis
All right. Britt, thank you.

Britt Andreatta
Thank you.