016: Going for No with Andrea Waltz

Pete Mockaitis
Andrea, thanks so much for joining us on the “How to be Awesome at Your Job” podcast.

Andrea Waltz
Hey, Pete.  It is great to be with you.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, I’m really particularly excited about some of the pieces that you’re going to be sharing, ‘cause I think rejection is something that weighs heavily in everybody’shearts and minds.  And hopefully it will weigh not so heavily when we’re done.  But could you start us off by telling us, how did you get interested in this topic in the first place?

Andrea Waltz
Well, actually I was working my way through college, I was getting my degree in Criminal Justice, Bachelor of Science degree in Criminal Justice, which I ended up doing absolutely nothing with whatsoever.  But I had dreams of being a crime scene investigator, and yeah, didn’t go anywhere, but hey, I guess if anybody needs fingerprinting at some point somewhere along the line, maybe I can jump in.  So in that process, I was working for LensCrafters, and I was working my way up through management, and I got into training, and I met my now husband, who kind of was my mentor even at LensCrafters, and taught me the “go for no” philosophy, which we have now spent the last 17 years teaching and training together.  And that is how I kind of fell in love with this whole model of thinking, and how to re-program the way you think about failure and rejection, which is what we call “go for no”.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s funny, but you said your now husband taught you in the ways of rejection.  I thought, “Wait, what?  Where is this going?  Were you a persistent suitor romantically?”  But no, that’s not what you meant apparently.

Andrea Waltz
Apparently, yeah.  But he was that as well.

Pete Mockaitis
So what is the “go for no” philosophy?  Like how would you articulate the essential tenants of that?

Andrea Waltz
So fundamentally how this was played out was this actually happened to Richard, and this is where the philosophy comes from.  Basically, what we teach people to intentionally go out and increase their failure rate.  And that freaks people out a lot, they think, “I don’t want to fail, that seems crazy”.  But we do teach people to go out and fail more, and it all started from something that happened to Richard, and a long story short – basically, he was working in a men’s clothing store, a guy came in, bought $1,000 worth of clothing, Richard thought he did a great job selling this man all of these things, and his district manager, who was there watching this sale take place, wasn’t overly impressed.  And so he asked Richard a question, and he said, “Out of curiosity, Richard, what did that customer say “no” to?”  And Richard said, “What do you mean?  He bought like over a $1,000 worth of stuff.  What do you mean he said “no” to?”  And he said, “Well, yeah, I’m just curious”.  And Richard said, “Well, he didn’t say “no” to anything.  You know, everything I basically showed this guy, he purchased”.  And he said, “Well, then how did you know he was done?”  AndRichard said, “I guess it was because once he got like to over $1,000 I basically rang him up and sent him on his way”.  And his district manager said, “You’re a pretty good sales person, but your fear of the word “no” is going to kill you.  And if you could just learn to get over that, if you could “go for no”, you could be one of the great ones”.  And that was the moment that changed Richard’s career.  He realized that he avoided “no”, that he didn’t like… He kind of pre-judged people, and when somebody got to his mental spending limit, he would send them on their way.  So it was kind of a life-changing moment for him, and it changed his career trajectory, he ended up becoming an award-winning sales person using that “go for no” method, just not fearing the word “no” and actually going out and hearing “no” more often.   And so years later he ended up going into training and management, and when we met, he told me that story, and I said, “Oh my God, that is so cool because I thought I was a superstar sales person, and I realized that I didn’t like hearing “no” either.  So it changed my career and now we’ve spent the last 17 years teaching people to do the same.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s really clicking for me.  ‘Cause I’ll be honest, when I first heard “go for no” I thought, “Okay, that’s kind of a catching little slogan I guess, it rhymes”.  But what you’re saying is fundamentally, you haven’t really hit the limit until you’ve heard the word “no”.

Andrea Waltz
Exactly.  And there are so many nuances, Pete, to it, but that is the fundamental philosophy, is you haven’t hit your limit.  Most people, we all play it so safe, and like we always joke in our presentations that we do, we always say kids with their parents.   Kids are so tenacious, and they will ask and ask and ask.  And if  kid’s asking his mom for a cookie in the grocery story and she says “no” a couple of times, he’s not thinking, “Oh, man, I’m not going to get a cookie today”.  He’s thinking, “Oh, okay, I have to work a little harder and be a little more creative to get my cookie.  ‘Cause that’s going to happen, right?  It’s going to happen”.  And so, it’s that persistence that we all let get drummed out of us that Richard and I are so passionate about helping people reconnect with.

Pete Mockaitis
And I can relate to that as I think about being asked for donations, which is non-profits.  And so what’s happened is I have a relationship with the person who’s working this organization as the executive director, and so he’s asked for an amount one year, and I said “Sure”.  He asked for another amount the next year, which was higher, and I said, “Sure”.  He asked for a larger amount still the third year and I thought, “You know…”  I really did just about hit my limit.  And it’s interesting, I didn’t like saying “no”.  I don’t like hearing it or saying it, I guess.  I didn’t like saying “no”, but sure enough, that was the indicator that that’s the limit.  He asked for an amount and I said, “You know, I just don’t think that’s going to work this time.  I can do this amount”.  And he said, “Okay.  Thank you so much.  We really appreciate your generosity”.  And that’s when you know that you’ve hit the limit.

Andrea Waltz
Yeah, entirely.  And that really is the “go for no” process in action, absolutely.  And it’s funny you’d say that you don’t like saying no either, because people who learn to go for no, also simultaneously learn the skill of saying “no”.  Some people think “go for no” is all about how to say no, and say no to things you don’t want to do, and while that’s really an important skill, and we all tend to put too much on our plates and say “yes” to everything ‘cause we don’t want to disappoint people, that is not what the philosophy is about.  But if aren’t going to say “no”, sometimes it’s hard to go for no as well.  You know, it’s kind of a package sometimes.

Pete Mockaitis
So in a way it sounds kind of maybe conceptual or theoretical at this point.  It’s like, okay, when you hear “no” that means that you’ve hit the limit.  So great job, you’ve pushed it to the maximum, that’s good news.  But that doesn’t maybe feel adequate for maybe some of the emotional stuff that’s going on under the surface.  So how do you address that so that we actually feel okay about being told “no” or saying “no”?

Andrea Waltz
That is such a perfect question, and you’re exactly right.  So it’s one thing to absorb it intellectually and go, “Oh my gosh, I get it.  I’m going to hear “no” more”.  And then all of a sudden you’ve got and and you start putting it in practice, whether it’s asking somebody out on a date, or asking somebody for the sale, or fundraising like in your example.  But then you’re right, the emotions start to hit you because people take “no” personally.  And the reason we use the word “failure”is that a lot of people take that  “no” personally and they feel like a failure, they feel like they failed, and it’s this whole mixture of emotions.  And then of course they slow down, stop or quit, and give up altogether.  So the whole other piece to the philosophy is really helping people re-program, for lack of a better word, it kind of is.  I know it sounds like… There is no cult involved here or anything.

Pete Mockaitis
I’m a robot.

Andrea Waltz
Yeah.  But we help people re-program the way they think and feel about the word “no”, and that feeling is really important, because if you’re not feeling good about it, then our philosophy, as brilliant intellectually as it may be, just falls flat.  So you’ve got to say, “Okay, I have to re-think my definition of failure and success.  I have to understand that I have to fail more, I have to hear “no” more.  And when I do that, I will be more successful”.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, so in practice then, how do we go about doing a re-programming?  Can we do maybe a five-minute re-program right here, right now?  I imagine it needs more depth, but what could we achieve in a few minutes?

Andrea Waltz
Well, there’s no easy answer, Pete, and the reason is that everybody is different.  But I’ll tell you this, there’s no… I wish I could give you some kind of easy mantra  that you can start repeating over and over again.  And really what it has to do with is, we tell people that they need to get into action, they need to see where they are in their process.  So most of this application is in sales and business and people that take the concept and apply it to whatever they are doing.  So for example, if I was teaching your friend the fundraiser, I would say, “Okay, we’re going to set a no goal today of, I want you to get 20 no’s.  And  we’re not going to worry about the yes’s, the yes’s are great, so no matter what your quota of yes’s are, we’re just going to ignore that and we’re just going to hear 20 no’s”.  And by putting that into practice and taking action, and trying to get those 20 no’s in that day or in that week, or whatever you decide, that is what produces the courage and the persistence and gets people the results, so that they can understand and they can start working on their emotions, kind of on the backend.  Because you can’t really work on the emotions and getting okay with it on the front end.  Does that make sense?

Pete Mockaitis
I hear you.  So you say re-program in the sense that, collecting these no’s is now actually a victory.  You win by having accomplished the goal of collecting the no’s.

Andrea Waltz
Exactly.  And so we tell people all the time, “Hey, if you set a no-goal of 10 or 20 and you hit that goal, start celebrating that”.  Because we’re all very good at celebrating our yes’s and the successes, but really, all we usually do when we get a bunch of no’s is berate ourselves and tell ourselves that we’re idiots, and who do we think we are.  That’s not going to help reproduce activity or get people into action, right?  That just makes you want to crawl under the covers,  right?  So the goal is to set those no-goals and to celebrate your activity and your action, and that is kind of the way the re-programming process starts happening, because you’re really focused on your behaviors, and your action and activity, and then eventually when you start hearing “no” more, then you start getting desensitized, then it starts kind of, you realize, “You know what, this isn’t about me.  This is really about the other person”.  Now I could start by convincing you it’s not about you, and it’s about the other person.  But what I really need you to do is just get into action.  And then we can deal with that.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay.  So, can you share with me maybe some additional perspectives?  Like… I think I’m already sold.  You’re very persuasive, I guess.

Andrea Waltz
Okay.

Pete Mockaitis
You got me quick.  But for those who are a bit more resistant or skeptical in operating this, what are some maybe additional ways that you frame it, or you offer perspective?  ‘Cause I imagine, well you can tell me.  When you’re working with folks and you challenge them, “Go collect 20 no’s today”.  I imagine not everybody’s thrilled about that idea, like “That sounds like torture”.  So what do you tell them next?

Andrea Waltz
That’s a really good question.  Not much, actually.  I pound it into them, that philosophy.  But I’ll give you another example thought, ‘cause this is kind of a common one, and this is what happens when we kind of live in the, what I call, the “go for yes” world versus the “go for no” world.  And I think you’ll see really quickly how limiting opportunities become when we’re always thinking about yes’s and we’re avoiding no.  So let’s say you need a job, and let’s say you go to a networking meeting, a networking group, totally making this up.  And you get 10 business cards or people.  And all of them you talk to might have some kind of job prospect for you.  But what happens when we live in the “go for yes” world is we go home and we look at the 10 business cards and we say, “Wow, out of all these 10, I think five of these people didn’t really like me.  I bet you anything they’re just going to tell me “no”.  So you set the five cards aside.  Now you have five more left.  And you say, “Three of these people were kind of nice, I think there’s a possibility, but I don’t know.  It’s kind of medium, so I’ll set these three aside.  These two people, we had good conversations, there was some commonality,  whatever.  I think I’ll go ahead and call these people”.  So what we do is, and this is for sales too, we go, “Okay, so I’ll just call the people that I think will say “yes”.  I think these two people will meet with me”.  Now what we’ve done is, because we’re just chasing after the “yes”, we’ve set aside the other eight people, because we’re just focused on the “yes”, we’re fearing getting the “no”, and now we’ve limited our opportunities.  What “go for no” says is, “Hey, you just met 10 people.  Turn your invested time into profitable time.  You should be calling each one of these people.  You are assuming, incorrectly by that way that, “Hey, this person didn’t like me, or they don’t have a job for me, or they don’t want to hear from me”.  Usually all based in fear, and lack of self-esteem or self-worth, and so again we limit our opportunities.  So in the “go for no” world you’d say, “Hey, I’ve got 10 business cards.  I’m going to take 10 chances, rather that two”.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay.  Certainly that seems like some basic multiplication of opportunity, which is handy.  So I’m also curious to hear, I know a lot of the work you do is with sales-type professionals.  I’m imagining applying “go for now” in the everyday professional work place environment.  Maybe your role isn’t sales, but you are having plenty of exchanges or interactions with colleagues and bosses and collaborators of different sorts and stripes.  Could you share with us, what are some key requests or scripts we might follow in the work place, in which way we can make some good requests and go for no to our benefit at work on a daily, weekly basis?

Andrea Waltz
Yeah, that’s a great question.  And I don’t have anything ready to go, based on everybody’s different scenario.  But I’ll tell you something really interesting, and I see this happening actually on Twitter all over the United Kingdom.  This lady who’s the head of a particular national health society division of UK healthcare has kind of adopted our “go for no” philosophy, and they are really trying to change their whole healthcare system, but in order to do that, they have to change the old way of thinking.  Like the old way of doing business, the old way of healthcare,  all these things.  And so they’ve kind of adopted “go for no” as a way to get people to have the courage to challenge old thinking.  And really what it comes down to, Pete, is it comes down to asking.  So in any work environment, anybody listening to this who says, “Well, how do I apply this?  I’m not in sales”.  Yes, but you have to sell ideas, you have to sell people on maybe looking at things your way.  And so what it all comes down to is having the courage to ask, whether it’s asking for a meeting, or asking somebody, “Hey, I really want you to consider this idea.  Let me share it with you”.  And one of those things, and kind of the key is, to not make assumptions.  This all kind of goes back to assumptions of what people are going to do or say.  It’s taking a risk, taking a little bit of a chance, stepping outside your comfort zone and going for no, and asking in whatever context it may be.

Pete Mockaitis
I like that a lot.  And one context I think is useful and under “asks for” is just feedback, in terms of, “How am I doing?  What do you perceive as some of my real strengths and development opportunities here?  What could I do to make your work life easier, simpler, better?  You know, what do I do that annoys or frustrates you?”  I think that takes a degree of risk and vulnerability to go there, but I could totally see how if you’ve adopted the “go for no” philosophy, you’re more able to do just that.

Andrea Waltz
Exactly.And I love that you said that, because that really is taking the model, and we kind of outlined this in our book, it’s a real simple model, and the model is really changing the way you think about failure and success.  And most of us avoid opportunities to fail, we avoid negative feedback, we avoid all these things.  We’re just looking for the success, the yes’s, and we see them as a choice.  Our new model really is that the failures, the rejection, the hearing the word “no”, that is all in between us and getting those yes’s and the success.  So if you want to move up in your job and your company, if you want to really explode your results, you do want to be going for no at every turn.  You want to be getting that feedback, you want to be failing, so that you can then improve, learn, grow, and have a chance to succeed.  If you’re just… If it’s just about proving yourself, then you stay away from all that, and you’ll never really move ahead.

Pete Mockaitis
That’s sort of like the fixed mindset, growth mindset research there.

Andrea Waltz
Yes, exactly.  That is exactly what it is, and it’s funny, for years people have told me, “This reminds me of Carol Dweck’s mindset research”, and finally I got the book, and I just read it, I’ve probably read it two or three times, and it’s fantastic, and it is exactly that.  It’s having that growth mindset of failure, and embracing those failures and seeing them as learnings, not as, “I’m just trying to show off or prove myself to other people”.

Pete Mockaitis
Excellent.  So I’m intrigued a little bit about the UK healthcare piece.  Are there kind of particular things that people are going for no for?  Or could you share maybe some detail on that or any other pretty cool case studies in terms of…

Andrea Waltz
I wish I could.  They’ve literally kind of hijacked the concept.  I’ll tell you how it happened though, it’s kind of funny.   I did a slide share and put it up on SlideShare.net, and it was kind of my favorite “go for no” memes, and these memes are really simple, it’s things like, “Yes is the destination, No is how you get there”, “Set a no-goal and that will help you achieve results”.  I mean, really kind of our simplest philosophies.  And this one particular lady, who’s kind of executing this new of thinking, this new wave of change, kind of took it and said, “ I get it”.  I mean she took it without really… I don’t know if she read the book or not, per se, but she just kind of got it, and said, “You know, I’m going to understand that I have to take risks, that we have to be pushing against the old way of thinking, and constantly be willing to hear “no”, and going back and staying persistent”.  Because that’s another kind of layer to “go for now” is having that persistence, where when somebody does tell you “no”, it’s not, “Hey, this is no, never, this might just be no for now”.  So if I don’t… I’m guessing, from what I have seen when I’ve gleaned on Twitter is, that their whole model is, “Let’s start changing the way of thinking.  And if we can’t change this week, we’ll keep at it.  We’ll bring it up again next month, and we’ll bring it up again next month”.  And eventually they’re going to see the changes that they want, ‘cause they’re going to be persistent about it.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, and people will be healthier as a result.  So, good news.

Andrea Waltz
Yeah.

Pete Mockaitis
And in your own work with clients, could you share with us any particularly touching or note-worthy case studies or transformational examples?

Andrea Waltz
You know, so many, so many.  Some of them are just funny.  I mean, like one of them was just, it was kind of adorable, I have to say.  This, and I’m guessing he was fairly young, this kid wrote me this email, long long email.  He was working a job at a tennis shop, and  at a racket ball, like one of these country clubs that has the tennis courts and the racket ball and everything else.  And he was working in the little shop, and he said that he read “Go For No” and he said they had merchandise in there that had been there for years, like cobwebs and dust was growing on it.  And he said he just started like asking and sharing everything with people.  People would walk in and he’d say, “Hey, do you want this?  Do you want this towel or do you want this item?  Hey, have you seen these hats?”  And he said he literally sold out of all of this stuff that had been in their shop for years.  And he was so enthusiastic, and it was just adorable to hear him have so much fun with it, and I’ve kind of similar email from a lady who said that she was using it in her business, and it was helping her stop taking “no” personally, because one of things that we suggest is for people to kind of make a game out of it.  So if you’re going to set your no-goal, just have fun with it and make it a game, and that will kind of reduce some of the stress and pressure you put on yourselves, and that will help people see that, “Hey, you’re having fun.  And you’re a fun person to be around, and it’s very attractive”.  So we’ve gotten some great letters from people who’ve said that they’ve gotten opportunities just out of the woodwork that they never expected, because they weren’t stressed and forcing people to get a “yes”, they were just out there sharing opportunities and getting no’s, but also getting yes in just fun, unexpected ways.

Pete Mockaitis
Fantastic.  Well, if there’s… Is there anything else that you would like to convey before we shift gears into the fast faves?

Andrea Waltz
Well, I will say that it’s really a fun life philosophy.  I mean, you could use it anywhere.  I mean,  sometimes it’s funny, Richard and I will be somewhere and he’ll say, “I don’t know, should we ask for that?”, and I say, “What do you think?  We’re the “go for no” people.  Should we try this or not?”  So any time that you want to upgrade to a better card at the rental car place, you want to try getting a better seat in a restaurant, I mean go for it.  Try going for “no” in different places.  And I tell people all the time, that can build your courage just as much as doing it maybe on the job, or, you know, in a sales situation, just out in everyday life.

Pete Mockaitis
I’m so glad you said that, because that’s where it  for me.  Right now I’ve got a pair of shoes, I spent more than I should on this pair of shoes, and they’re just not doing the trick, you know.  They hurt, and I just thought, “You’re just breaking them in”.  And then … no, no.  It’s been numerous times I’ve worn them, they still hurt, and one of the shoe laces broke, and it was a pricey pair of shoes, but it’s not right.  And so part of me says, “Well, Pete, you call them and they’re going to say, ‘You bought these months ago.  What are you thinking, we’re going to take them back?’  But the other part of me says, ‘Well, if they really want to stand by their brand they should do it’.  But I’m already in that very thought pattern, in a “going for yes” world, whereas you’re saying “go for no”, where even if they tell me “no”, I have gained something and upgraded my courage for having tried.

Andrea Waltz
Absolutely, and you never know what they’re going to say, but for sure you should do it, you should call them and say, “Hey, this is the whole story.  And what can you guys do?”  And if it’s nothing, then it’s hey, at least you tried, and you don’t have to worry and you don’t have to wonder, “What if I had tried?”  You know?   There’s probably something.  There’s probably something you’ll get.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay, thank you.  I’m inspired.  I’m going to eat some humble pie and say, “Hey, I should’ve called you some months ago, but here’s what’s up with your shoes”.

 Andrea Waltz
Yes, yes.  I like it.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay well, that was fantastic.  So now shifting into the fast faves.  I’d love to get some roughly one-minute responses to key things you like.   Can you tell us, first, a favorite quote, something that inspires your repeatedly?

Andrea Waltz
Yes, one of my favour quotes.  This is by Peter McWilliams, who wrote a great book called “Do It:  Let’s Get Off Our Butts, BUTTS”.  Yes.   And one of the quotes he has is, “What’s more important, your goal or others’ opinions of your goal?”

Pete Mockaitis
I like it.  And how about a favorite study?  And sort of research or experiments that you find yourself looking back to again and again?  Maybe some of the Carol Dweck.

Andrea Waltz
I was going to say, it really is the mindset research.   I love those experiments that she did with the kids, where she would give them puzzles and see who wanted to re-do the same puzzle over and over again, and the kids that had the growth mindset, that wanted challenging, harder puzzles, and they weren’t afraid of getting a puzzle that they couldn’t solve, they just wanted to try.  All of that research is phenomenal, fascinating.

Pete Mockaitis
Alright, and how about a favorite book?

Andrea Waltz
One of my favorite books is called “The Four Agreements” by Don Miguel Ruiz.

Pete Mockaitis
What’s it about?

Andrea Waltz
Four agreements. They’re amazing.  They are very simple:  speak with integrity;don’t make assumptions, which we talk in detail about in “Go for No”, so it’s such a perfect  companion to this philosophy;don’t take things personally; and always do your best.  Those are the four agreements, and that book basically changed my life in term of how to think often times about  just communication and dealing with other people.  It’s amazing.

Pete Mockaitis
How about a favorite website or online resource?

Andrea Waltz
Oh my gosh, there are so many.  I will say  Seth Godin’s blog.  I will go to that blog and read, like 10 to 20 blog posts.  Sometimes I’ll miss a few days and then I’ll go back and catch up.  So I love Seth Godin’s blog.

Pete Mockaitis
They are so short and fun.

Andrea Waltz
Yes.

Pete Mockaitis
How about a favorite habit?  Any sort of personal practices that you’ve gotten in the groove of doing, that have just really been transformational?

Andrea Waltz
Yeah, one of my favorite organizational habits is, and I think this might be in the new book about tidying up, the popular Japanese book that’s sold over a million copies, but mine is, I like to take, like pull literally everything off my desk and make just a huge pile on the floor, and then I work from the floor back to my desk, so my desk starts off totally clean.  Everything’s on the floor.

Pete Mockaitis
I really like that.

Andrea Waltz
Yeah.

Pete Mockaitis
How about any favorite tools, whether it’s a software or gadgets or thought approaches you use often?

Andrea Waltz
One of my favorite tools actually is… I actually chose an app that I use.  Technically not an app, it’s called followup.cc and it allows me to send emails to the address with the date, so if I want to talk to you in a month, I could type in the date at followup.cc and I would get an email reminder, so it’s a great way for me to not have like a to-do list somewhere, but I like getting emails, ‘cause I really keep organized in my inbox, so that is a great tool for me.

Pete Mockaitis
Great.  How about a favorite nugget that when you share it, people re-tweet it, they highlight it in the Kindle version of your book, they nod their heads.  What would be one of those quotes, of your own saying?

Andrea Waltz
Probably one of our biggest ones… “Yes is the destination, No is how you get there” is a big one, but also “There is virtually nothing you can’t achieve if you’re willing to hear ‘no’ often enough”.

Pete Mockaitis
Inspired.  And how about a favorite role model, somebody that you look up to professionally, and why?

Andrea Waltz
Liz Gilbert, I would say.  She wrote  “Eat, Pray, Love”.  She’s an amazing author, speaker, and also she just wrote a great book for anyone who’s into creativity, called “Big Magic”, and it’s phenomenal.  She’s super inspiring.

Pete Mockaitis
And how about a favorite way to find you?  Would you prefer a particular website, or email, or Twitter handle?

Andrea Waltz
Probably just our website.  It’s goforno.com, because from there you can find us on Facebook and Twitter and all that kind of stuff.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay.  And a favorite challenge or a final call to action that you might leave listeners with?

Andrea Waltz
You know what it’s going to be.  I mean I have to challenge everyone to ask,  I would challenge everyone to two things and these are two of the four agreements, is “Don’t make assumptions” and “Don’t take it personally”.  So, you know, grow a pair and, you know, ask for what you want, and just see what happens.

Pete Mockaitis
Fantastic.  Well, Andrea, this has been a real treat.  Thanks so much for joining us here, and I wish you lots of luck in all the ways you go for no.

Andrea Waltz
Thanks so much, Pete.  It was so much fun.