200: Finding and Being Good People with Anthony Tjan

Pete Mockaitis
Tony, thanks so much for joining us here on the How To Be Awesome At Your Job podcast.

Tony Tjan
Thank you, Pete. I’m glad to be on.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, we’re glad to have you. And speaking of great guests and hosting them, I noticed in your Twitter feed that you recently hosted Isaac Lidsky, whom we had earlier, amazing, amazing inspiring guy, back in Episode 142, at your On Cue event. Tell me, what’s that event and how did Isaac do?

Tony Tjan
Well, yeah, Isaac is awesome. And what we try to do each year at a gathering, a private gathering called On Cue, it’s a little bit of a mix of a TED-like gathering, meeting a little bit of a Burning Man and artistic festival. But there’s about 250 best and brightest we invite. It’s not a conference. No one pays. We don’t pay people to come. And Isaac, as you know, who was your guest, Episode 142, spoke on that theme as only he can do so well around, “What is the reality that you create for yourself?”

And as your guest may remember, here is someone who’s highly-educated coming out of Harvard College, I believe Harvard Law School, was a television star, and a very, very successful entrepreneur of his own business, but due to a rare disease lost his sight. And I think really the reason I had him, as part of our set of speakers, is that we really wanted to talk about truth and wisdom, and I think he was just perfect at saying that the perceptions and realities we have are self-created in many ways, and look at what he’s done to break those misperceptions and have success in many different ways.

In some ways the blindness served to be a catalyst for him to see and understand his full potential, so I think it was just a great set of profound lessons on how people deal with adversity with grit, inspiration and how they can reflect that onto other people.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, absolutely. He’s certainly a force of inspiration there. And I remember he asked the question, “What do I really know about going blind?” And that has just struck me so often in terms of his answer was, “Well, nothing. I’m not blind before. I just made all these assumptions.” And so, likewise, whenever I enter a new territory I just check myself. It’s like, “What do I really know about hiring an electrician?” We just bought a home. So it’s like, “Well, nothing.” So then it’s been quite an eye-opening to see, “Well, what do I just sort of close my mind around or just assume as true before I really tested it out and dug in a bit?” So that’s been eye-opening and encouraging when I’m in new territories.

And so it sounds like a really cool event as well as your company. Give us the quick background there. The Cue Ball Group, what are you all about?

Tony Tjan
Well, Cue Ball is a holding company and venture firm that is really trying to change the model for venture capital. I have been privileged to be part of a few entrepreneurial and business-building experiences which have been part of some transformations in industry including the commercialization of internet. My partner led the largest information, be the transformation in history, which was the turnaround and transformation of Thomson, a newspaper company, to Thomson Reuters.

Cue Ball Group is trying to take some of those lessons and look at all sorts of businesses and really get back to the very basics of what it means to build great businesses that will lasts. And so with respect to having a new model for venture capital, there are some unique dimensions that we try to put forth. One is putting forth a philosophy that more important than any other principle in business, and I would argue in life and what I write about in my latest book Good People, it is all about having a people-first philosophy and being around good people.

And second is understanding that great things take a long time. Our fund is very unique in that we are trying to be a Berkshire Hathaway of venture capital, meaning that we have no fix timeframe on the investments we make. So we enter businesses to enter them, we don’t think about exit strategies day one. We really think about, “Are these things that we want to partner with and hold onto forever?”

Pete Mockaitis
Forever. I like it. That’s cool. And so when it comes to people you’ve got a book entitled Good People – The Only Leadership Decision That Really Matters. And so can you kind of give us what’s the big idea behind this book?

Tony Tjan
Yeah, the big idea is that we all use that phrase, “Good people. What does it mean to be a good person?” It’s a question, though, that we rarely ask ourselves. It’s one of the most used terms that we know we want to be good and we want to be around good people. So the idea behind the book was really put forth a clear definition of what it means to be good, understand why it’s hard to be good, and then discuss what you can actually do about it.

The underlying premise for many people of what goodness really means, it is about goodness of competency. But I would argue, for many of your listeners and audience out there that the most important goodness is goodness of character and values, and that’s what we discuss mostly in the book.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. So character and values, so you’re saying, I’m hearing that there’s kind of multiple types of goodness, or within the categorization that you’re using. You’re primarily talking about goodness and values and not so much competency.

Tony Tjan
Yeah, it’s not that competency isn’t important. I think, for all the people out there who are at a variety of their jobs, I don’t want to convey at all that their great skills and competencies and smarts and thinking aren’t important for them to continue to advance in their career whether they’re a freelancer or having a career in whatever company they may be in.

But what we have done in most companies and business schools have been very long on teaching goodness of competency but relatively short on trying to educate and cultivate goodness of character and values. And it’s my belief that that really is the most important thing, not just from some hairy-fairy high-level CEO-sy, but really for understanding how you can develop the best inner version of yourself, the highest expression of yourself, and as important, help those around you and, ultimately, advance to the highest levels of your potential.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, that sounds exciting to me. And so I’m intrigued though, venture capital is a place where maybe we don’t think about that so much. And I guess I’m thinking about the movie Wall Street, Gordon Gekko, “Greed is good,” or, “Cash is king,” and, “It’s called the bottom line for a reason,” etcetera. So while I like the feel good stuff, could you make the data-driven case for us about goodness as it relates to economic value?

Tony Tjan
Yeah, so we looked that up to a hundred cases of businesses and leaders out there and what we found was that the businesses that, first and foremost, have true lasting value are really in the business of value creation not just value capture, were those that really had a strong sense of values. And, secondly, we found out that there’s no doubt a very high correlation between that and shareholder appreciation.

At a very practical level for listeners, companies that have real goodness are the ones that actually engender the strongest cultures. And why does that matter? Well, it’s shocking to me that in this country, currently that 67% to 70% of employees are either disengaged, meaning that they’re relatively indifferent, or they’re actively seeking to leave their jobs.

So over two-thirds of the employee base today is basically indifferent or unhappy at their workplace. And what we found is that places that have a very strong sense of values and character have the opposite. So a great case example that I open my book with is that out there in California, near La Jolla in San Diego, there’s a company that makes a fairly well-known household product in blue and yellow cans called WD-40.

And WD-40 has always had that philosophy ran by Garry Ridge over a very long period of time, “Don’t just mark my paper. Help me get an A.” That philosophy that he has infused in his company has led to 98% of the people wanting to recommend it as a place to work, 99% of the people saying that they love working there, some of the highest retention rates in the country, highest engagement levels, not to mention decades of just shareholder and stockholder appreciation of value.

And I think that’s just something important for us all to remember. You may or may not be out there with direct reports today, and you may or may not have a relationship in your organization with a boss that you feel like you have a connection with, but I think we’re all in a position to either actively seek those people that can help us elevate to a higher expression of who we are and what we want to do, or no matter what level we are in our organizations to help others feel that fullest version of who they are.

And that really is the biggest lesson that you’ve seen from these companies. They’re not about organizations that are about having a leader that creates followers. They’re organizations that systematically create leaders who produce other leaders and I mean that across all levels of the organization.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, that’s so cool and striking. Well, how big is the WD-40 corporation or the parent company there? Ninety-eight percent, wow. That’s huge.

Tony Tjan
Yeah, so WD-40 has, I think, what, it’s worth about 1.5 billion annual sales or about $350-$400 million. And, like I said, they retain staff at three times the national average, and people are excited to work there and that’s a billion five company.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, that’s amazing. This isn’t just 50 people and 49 of them love it.

Tony Tjan
No.

Pete Mockaitis
It’s off the scale and people are digging this so that’s so cool. And the product isn’t super innovative, I mean, it’s been around for a while but I’m sure they probably have some other things going on but that is a striking example how it appears sort of a household item that is the culture is such that folks are fired up and good to go, not so much because of the amazing Silicon Valley style innovation of the cool new thing but just of something else that’s sort of deep and fundamental about how they’re relating to one another.

Tony Tjan
Yeah, absolutely. And that’s what’s cool. And what you find there are some of the things that you end up speaking about a lot on your program. People feel more present every single day, when we say they’re engaged they come in with a sense of purpose. I’ve always said that what ultimately drives people to stay at a place of work is not so much the extrinsic rewards, not the title, not the money but the intrinsic reward of sensing they have a meaningful role.

And I think that’s pretty awesome that, to your point at something, with all due respect to the organization, I mean, most people would think of WD-40 as having something fairly prosaic and mundane, but they have built tribes and they’ve built a customer base that tell stories around it. It’s a storytelling experiential product, believe it or not, and the employees are jazzed.

And because they’re jazzed, and because they live this culture where it doesn’t matter, again, whether you’re an entry-level person or a direct report to Garry the CEO, that they’re there with the purpose of helping each other be successful. And it’s a whole radical concept that I think we need to embrace today in venture, in business, that compassion and competition are not mutually exclusive, that they can co-exists. And, in fact, when they co-exists that’s when you get the highest levels of productivity, that’s when people can really soar and get to heights that they couldn’t believe they can get to before.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. That’s cool. Well, now let’s get right into it. So, goodness, I want it, and so starting with myself, an individual, who wants to be better or have more goodness, what are some of your key findings in terms of how that is built up?

Tony Tjan
Well, there’s really three cornerstone values that people have to think about daily, and they’re around the following items. One is truth. The foundation of goodness is truth, and truth really means, “Do I have a level of humility? When I go into work, do I feel self-aware? And, ultimately, do I act with integrity?” Meaning, “Do I have a level of self-congruence in doing what I say and saying what I think and thinking what I feel, and understanding that how I feel is who I am?”

So that foundation of truth is where everything starts. With truth you have a capacity to be compassionate, and compassion is having a sense of openness, it is about practicing empathy and generosity and having acts of kindness. And with those two things of truth and compassion, ultimately, you get to that pinnacle value of wholeness. The sense of wholeness is that I actually have love and respect and wisdom in what I do and from the people around me.

And on each of these levels of truth, compassion, wholeness, there are a number of tools and a number of very practical methods that people can check themselves each day to see if they are actually consistently practicing the cultivation of their character and values.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, yes, please share with us a couple of these most insightful checks on those three dimensions.

Tony Tjan
Well, the simplest one on self-awareness is what Benjamin Franklin did for years. He kept a diary across 13 virtues he was pursuing, and I doubt any of us would have that level of Franklin-diary discipline. But I do believe that consistently codifying and writing down each day what are the things that you sought to do in terms of, “Did I act with a level of compassion? Did I have truth in my activities?” is a very, very powerful way. The act of journaling is a very, very powerful way to create greater self-awareness.

Another practical way to be self-aware, we all tend to know a weakness or two that we have. Sometimes someone might just naturally be inclined to be a topper, meaning that in listening to people’s comments that they just want to top their story up. And a very easy way to be self-aware is to have a colleague or a friend just call you out on that in a meeting, and say to him, “Hey, look, I want to get better. I’m going to ask you as a friend just to call me out each time I do that.” So those are a couple under the truth bucket.

Probably the one that has really inspired me and that I use most often in the compassionate bucket is what I call the rule of 24 times three. And it really is about how you maintain a mindset of openness or optimism. And what we are, as creatures of being human, is that as we’re gaining experience and wisdom, we tend to also become increasingly cynical and critical of other people’s ideas.

So the idea behind the 24-by-3 rule was taught by a mentor of mine, Jay Chiat, who always had a capacity to see the goodness in anyone’s idea. So here’s how it works. The next time you hear an idea from a colleague or a friend, can you wait 24 seconds before critiquing it in any way, shape or form? And if you can wait 24 seconds, can you actually pause for 24 minutes to think about the positive attributes about it? And if you get past 24 minutes, is it possible for you to think for the next 24 hours all the reasons why that idea might work before allowing yourself to think about any reason why it will not work?

And that simple framing of 24 seconds, 24 minutes, 24 hours allows you to have an introspection, be more compassionate to other people’s ideas, it allows us to be more empathetic in our listening and our mutual respect of other people, all of which are the underlying sub-qualities that drive for a compassionate character.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, I really like that. And we had a guest mention the concept of for-ness, like the noun form of “I am for that,” and how that could be just so tremendously helpful, to cultivate that for-ness because you can sort of be changed, be transformed and receive different folks’ perspectives and allow them to grow and improve as opposed to…

I think you’re right there. It’s often a – I don’t know if it’s defensiveness or need to feel like we’re valuable and worthy and have more brilliance than the next guy or gal, but many people do seem to have a natural tendency to want to leap out of the gate saying why something won’t work. And I don’t know what psychology is behind that. Maybe numerous matters but it seems to almost be the default position amongst teams at times.

Tony Tjan
Yeah, I just tell people, “Look, there’s a fairly easy way to be happy at work, is just be an energy-giver over an energy-taker.” You actually find when you give that simple level of for-ness, of optimism, of openness, just a pause before you critique people, you will find great energy coming back to you, you’ll find greater collaboration, and you will develop stronger as a person and leader in your organization because you will gain respect not because you’re just going to listen and take every idea but because people think that you are actually going to listen, that you’re a person for advancement, that you have humility, and people want energy givers.

You’ve been to those parties where there’s the people that just suck the oxygen out of the room, and others that just try to inspire just a little bit more positivity to the day.

Pete Mockaitis
Certainly. So, now, I’m curious to hear how it’s possible, or is it possible, kind of in the frontend, to kind of discern who has much goodness upfront? And I’m thinking if you’re hiring somebody, you’d love for them to start off with a nice level of baseline goodness, or you are even going to date somebody, or choose a tenant if you own a property. Like what are some telltale signs or indicators or tests that you might use to see, “Hey, to what extent does someone really seem to be exhibiting virtue and character?”

Tony Tjan
Yeah. Well, it’s a great question. I think that so often when we are doing these interviews we tend to go out with these very, very prosaic and questions of futility, such as, “What is your greatest weakness?” And when you are asking that type of question you are left with probably only one of three rehearsed answers, “Oh, I work too hard,” “I’m too detail-oriented,” or what I call the Hallmark card of them all, “I care too much.” And there’s really no value in that.

And so what you’re trying to do is crack that nut where character and values tend to be revealed longitudinally. So how do you reveal them upfront? And part of what you need to do is break free from a normal interview process, a normal Q&A process. One of the best ways to do this, as my business partner, who was executive chairman of Chipotle for many years and has built several businesses, he said probably the best he has gotten that upfront is not just go and spend time, say, over dinner, with someone like you would if you’re doing a date, but at your earliest possible, cook a dinner with someone.

Cook a dinner with someone. Because when you cook a dinner with someone you reveal things that people are in a different state of mind. That’s one exercise. Another one is here’s a couple of questions that will be helpful. Ask or try to elicit from them what are the one or two traits from their parents that they would want to keep for themselves forever. That’s a very, very powerful question.

Another one is when you’re speaking to someone, is understand that when you’re trying to discern character initially, people are programmed, especially if you’re in that position of interviewing someone, to give a rehearsed answer. So the first response is often not the best one. Just say, “Tell me more. Tell me more.” And if you could just be patient and listen and try to be more experiential you’ll learn a lot.

Some of the other extremes I have heard that people do is they’ll go see how someone treat a receptionist or a security guard. But putting all of those things aside, Pete, what I often just tell people, “Reflect after you meet someone around the following: do you believe, just on your gut instinct, that this is a person where you could feel a level of collegial affection, respect and pride? Affection, respect and pride.”

And that’s almost a most important thing you can ask yourself in any early relationship cultivation. And if you don’t do that, you are likely to be setup for failure. Many audience members probably have a mentor of some sort. Well, mentorship never ever works if it doesn’t begin with the foundation of a relationship. So to make that work, just ask yourself when you’re considering a mentor-mentee relationship that you may want to cultivate, “Do you feel a sense of authentic collegial affection, respect and pride around this person?” and that’ll take you very, very far if you just ask that upfront.

Pete Mockaitis
And I’m intrigued when you say you’re basically consulting your gut, and when you say affection, respect and pride. I’d like to get your sense, sort of deep inside your internal dialogue, Tony, what does it sound like when you ask yourself this question, you’re consulting your gut, and you hear a positive response or a negative response. Are you kind of imagining yourself in a certain context and them embarrassing you, or you’re just going, “Yeah, this guy rocks”? What is sort of that internal dialogue sound like for you?

Tony Tjan
So, yeah. Well, you and I have both worked in the consulting world, so collegial affection, one of the thought experiments put forth often when you’re interviewing for new consultants or analysts is you ask, it’s the classic airport test. If you’re stuck in an airport over a storm, would you be loving it and saying, “Yeah, man, let’s grab a beer. What a great opportunity”? Or would you be looking to shoot yourself or find a motel to get as far away as possible? Would you ever enjoy taking a long car ride with this person?

Like that collegial affection, it’s like mentorship or any relationship, “Do you feel some level of chemistry?” We’re not asking you to be in love with the person, but you are asking, “Do you feel some intuitive internal chemistry with the person?”

On respect, that’s looking at competency and character. And do you feel that this person is going to respect the type of work you’re doing? Do you feel they’re going to be a good listener? Do you think you’re going to respect their work and their point of view? You’re pushing to get a point of view and seeing how they approach that.

One of the things I used to do when I had one of my first companies that required both having very creative design people and very strong business people was I would take the business people and I would in an interview process give them a box of Legos and say, “Build something out of this and try to communicate it to me and tell me the story creatively why you built that.” And some people would just think I’m nuts and walk away and not want to interview. Well, that told me a lot about whether they’re going to be compatible and respectful in our culture.

And in pride, I think you said it, imagine a context of taking the colleague home to your parents much like you would someone you might want to date. Are you going to be like, “Man, this person is going to really represent. I’m going to feel proud to bring this person home to mom and dad, or my sister over at Thanksgiving”? Or is it going to be like, “Man, yeah, thank God, I only have to see this person at work”? So those are some of the context I try to remember to go through in my head.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. That’s good. So, I guess then, it sounds like there maybe not, which is probably realistic, sort of a wondrous question or indicator that is like, “Aha,” shocking or striking in its consistent accuracy so much as it’s consult a number of these things. Or are there any sort of secret tactics that we want to make sure to cover too?

Tony Tjan
Well, the one that I did already mention I have to give credit to Adam Bryant who writes The Corner Office column for New York Times is, “What is that singular trait you would want to have from your mother or father and why?” You learn a lot about a person in that response, especially if you keep double-clicking and say, “Tell me more.” That would be the one that I think is really important.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And so then what might be some indicators that make you say, “Fantastic!” versus, “Hmm, I don’t know so much about this person”?

Tony Tjan
Yeah, action versus reaction to a task. You’d throw a hypothetical situation that this person is likely to act or react, do you think. Another one is if I’m looking for someone more senior, one of the things I do is instead of like saying, “Give me your references,” I just say, “Well, just tell me about three people in your life that you positively impacted and developed. And what will they say when I call them?”

And if someone, again, whether you formally have had a managerial responsibility or not, seeing how people respond to that question and how they have cultivated and developed people is really important and sometimes reaching out to them.

As I mentioned earlier, we just have had a rule in many of our businesses, like if someone is just rude to the receptionist or security or a wait staff because of the nature of businesses we invest in and because of who we think we represent as a firm, we just tell them politely, “I appreciate you come in but this may not be the right place for you unless you can tell me a little bit about why you acted and put yourself in that way.”

Pete Mockaitis
Understood. Yes. And I like the way you phrased that question. That came up when we talked to Randy Street, “What will they say when we call them?” is good because it sort of naturally gets a bit more honesty from them, like, “Oh, they’re going to call them. I better tell them what they’re really going to hear.”

Tony Tjan
Exactly.

Pete Mockaitis
But digging a little deeper on the singular value from parents question, I guess when I am imagining potential answers to this question, they all sound good. So what would be an example of something that causes some concern with regard to the answer to that question?

Tony Tjan
People that can’t really answer one.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, no answer.

Tony Tjan
There really isn’t one. And I don’t think it’s either right or wrong. I think, again, I’m just looking if they have a perspective and if it’s really authentic in the response. So it’s almost the tone. If something is too packaged, or feels obsequious, you could read that. You want to hear the story, the authenticity, the honesty, the oral history and not just something packaged of hard work.

Pete Mockaitis
Yeah, okay.

Tony Tjan
So it’s as much how they answer it and the context and that they feel that they have been shaped by others before them to be the person that they are.

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, perfect. Okay. So you’re saying it’s not just the quality but how they tell a story and shows that they have indeed been shaped and formed. And if they give you something that’s pre-packaged or shallow, that’s telling you, “Oh, maybe you really haven’t noticed and appreciated the impact that someone has had in raising and shaping you and your values. And if you can’t get that from your parents, or whoever your guardian, whoever is like taking care of you, then you might have some hard time picking that up from colleagues.”

Tony Tjan
Yup, that’s exactly right.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Well, Tony, this is so much good stuff. Tell me, is there anything else you want to make sure to mention before we hear about some of your favorite things?

Tony Tjan
The only final thought I’d say is that I believe we all have this capacity for goodness and even more so than that, a responsibility. So going back to that question of what singular trait you’d take from your parents, I think if we all could craft our story of wanting to imprint positivity onto others, if you just imagine that there might be 10 chapters in your life around 10 people that you will positively imprint values on, and ultimately that relationship will be one that is very reciprocal that you will learn from each other, who would those 10 people be?

Who is the first person you would start with? How do you start today? And how do you have as an objective to be part of a commitment to pass on goodness to just 10 people over your lifetime and recognize that so much of that will be mirrored back onto you and help you be that much more of a better and more characterful person.

[00:37:15]

Pete Mockaitis
Well, that is a powerful thought to, and weighty, just to sit within and reflect upon. So can you maybe give us a tip or two in terms of making a more deep or meaningful or impactful imprint of goodness on others when we’re engaging with them?

Tony Tjan
Yeah, first the reason it’s weighty and it’s out there is because, first, think about it. If you change 10 people, Pete, and they elected to change 10 other people, and those 10 people elected to positively change 10 others, yes, it sounds weighty, it sounds ambitious, it sounds audacious but that’s how real big transformative change happens, and that’s why we need to be much more in the business of being good people producing other good people, or leaders producing other leaders rather than just leaders creating followers.

But turning that into something very practical, there are basically five questions you can keep in the back of your head when you’re meeting someone and just trying to be helpful. And I think the first thing to ask someone is like, “What is it that you’re really trying to accomplish? Like personally and professionally, what is your calling? What is your purpose?” That’s the first question, “What is it that you’re really trying to do?”

Question two, “Well, what are you doing today that’s really helping you get there? What is your superpower? What do you do naturally better than someone else that’s helping you get there? What are the things advancing the ball forward?” Three, “What are the speed bumps that are preventing you from getting there, that are slowing you down?” Four, “What do you think you’re going to change over the next month, next year or tomorrow that will alter that path, accelerate it, shape down those speed bumps?”

And, ultimately, if you ask those four questions, “What are you really trying to do? What are you doing well towards that? What’s slowing you down? What are you going to change about it?” Then you can end with that last question, “And what can I do to help?” Those five questions, in that order, or some variant thereof, I have found just to be a useful framing towards trying to understand what people are about, and hopefully finding my own ways to help them in any small way possible.

Pete Mockaitis
Excellent. Thank you. Well, now, can you share with us a favorite quote, something you find inspiring?

Tony Tjan
Well, there are many, but Eleanor Roosevelt has always said one that I have embraced, which is, “The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.” And that I find inspiring, and my business partner, Mats Lederhausen, has a variant off of that, which I have used now, which is, “Believe more than you can so that you can more than you believe.”

And I think we have to believe in the beauty of our dreams, and I think we have to stretch ourselves because there’s just too many inspirational examples that have gone before us. And whatever circumstances we or you’re in out there, there’d been many others in that or worse before, and so I try to believe more than I can so that I can more than I believe.

Pete Mockaitis
Alright. Thank you. And can you share with us a favorite book as well?

Tony Tjan
Well, that is much, much tougher because there are just many, but alluded to Benjamin Franklin’s diary. I think it’s very, very powerful and I think that many classic books on leadership in the business side from Jim Collin’s Good to Great and almost anything that Buffett writes have been anchors of my thinking. And then outside of that I’ll pick up almost any magazine, and that’s my idiosyncrasy, and read it cover to cover almost. I’ve always been known to carry two or three magazines around with me. It doesn’t really matter. I’m old school like that.

Pete Mockaitis
Well, science shows it’s one of the best ways to relax is reading a magazine.

Tony Tjan
I think you hit it spot on. I think it’s my own form of meditation. You asked earlier, “How do you become more self-aware?” I think gardening, washing dishes and flipping through magazines just put me in a different zone. Yeah, so it’s not officially a book but it’s reading material that re-centers me.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. Cool. And how about a favorite tool?

Tony Tjan
A favorite tool. Physical or a framework tool?

Pete Mockaitis
Oh, sure. A physical, a software, tool, product, or framework. Something that you use often or you find helpful.

Tony Tjan
Yeah, so one of the tools and frameworks I said, and I should’ve credited, I think, a combination of a couple of my mentors from . . . who was the people development person for McKinsey, Deepak Chopra and my partner Mats Lederhausen gave me that five-part mentoring framework. I use that very often as a tool. And from a physical standpoint, I’m old-school Boy Scout. I think a little penknife always get you out of a lot of trouble.

Pete Mockaitis
Alright. And how about a favorite habit, a personal practice of yours that leads to effectiveness?

Tony Tjan
Yeah, I go back. I think you always have to find, sometimes as difficult as it is, each day to re-center. It doesn’t have to be as New Age as formal meditation but I do believe that meditation is very powerful. It’s just not something that I’m very good at or know how to practice well. But anything that can get you in that zone of re-centering is essential, whether you’re just trying to zone out in the shower, whether you’re just washing dishes, whether you’re going for a walk, flipping through a magazine. All of us need to re-center ourselves each day.

And I found that no matter if you’re at work, trying to be a parent, some of the greatest celebrities and athletes, a few of which I’ve had the privilege of working with, I found that to be a commonality that people do. They just take time for time and hitting your inner reset is important. And then related to that, you only have one body and you have to treat it right and stay healthy. That means eating right and, the part I don’t do so well, is sleeping right. But I think those things matter and they matter probably more than we give them credit to.

Pete Mockaitis
And, Tony, tell me, is there a particular nugget or piece that you share that seems to really connect and resonate with people, a Tony-original quote that gets the job done?

Tony Tjan
I don’t know if it gets the job done but I always have said that entrepreneurship in business and entrepreneurship in life is this tightrope between vulnerability and conviction. And I think that remembering that we’re on this balancing act and not being afraid or ashamed that we may feel vulnerable and that, at the same time, need to have conviction in what we do.

It helps get the job done because it gives people permission to be scared. It gives people permission to understand that risk-taking is a euphemism for active vulnerability, and it gives people an understanding that they still, despite that, have to move forward and leap forward with a level of conviction and, yeah, just get that job done.

Pete Mockaitis
Alright. And, Tony, if folks want to learn more or get in touch, where would you point them?

Tony Tjan
Yeah, so my Twitter feed is @anthonytjan. My last name is pronounced C-H-A-N but it’s spelled T-J-A-N. And they can go read either of my books at www.aboutgoodpeople.com or my first book Hearts, Smarts, Guts, and Luck, or finally our website CueBall.com.

Pete Mockaitis
Okay. And, Tony, do you have a final challenge or call to action for folks seeking to be awesome at their jobs?

Tony Tjan
Yeah, my challenge is to find those 10 people and imprint goodness on them. Start today.

Pete Mockaitis
Alright. Well, Tony, thank you so much for sharing this. It’s been really cool to get a perspective from someone who have venture capital and goodness combined. It’s been a real treat and I wish you tons of luck with your investments and your people imprinting and all you’re up to.

Tony Tjan
And thank you for all your awesomeness and for doing this great, great program. Really appreciate the opportunity to be part of this episode.